Was Jesus an original or a copy?

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Mysterie...e=UTF8&s=books

Not a bad read. Perhaps A tad repetitive.

Only dates that come out of my ass came from figs, my friend. Didn't our friend honegod asked us to be civil?

Lets start with Josephus Flavius. A Jewish historian. Reports say he lived as the earliest non-Christian who mentions a Jesus.

Are you interested in hearing more?

At least yer honest. So what now? Should I view all of your responses as 'not interested', and a waste of my time to consider your thoughts?

Bingo.

that josephus passage is really famous yzf. you should look into it. he was part of a jewish rebellion who switched sides and became a roman sympathizer after the rebellion was put down.

iirc it's the only purely non religious historical document that makes a reference to jesus, as josephus was a contemporary of jesus's time. he only makes a passing reference to jesus.

above and beyond that, it is a fascinating read in its own right. alot of insight into jewish/roman stuffs around the turn of the millenium. definitely worth a read.

you need to shut the fuck up until you learn how to stop lying out your ass...seriously

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Can you two move your shit to smack talk section?

If you arent going to hold any debate on topic, how bout excusing yourself and go elsewhere. I'm on Honegod side on this. Lets debate on religion. everything else take it to smacktalk or somewhere else. We have enough people interested to hold a debate without you two being present.

Well...

Why dont we examine deeper how Hercules myth resembles Jesus in many areas. Yes, Hercules was born as a human from the union of God (Zeus) and the mortal and chaste Alcmene, his mother. (Enter God and Mary)

Similar to Herod who wanted to kill Jesus, Hera wanted to kill Hercules.

Like Jesus, Hercules traveled the earth as a mortal helping mankind and performed miraculous deeds.

Like Jesus who died and rose to heaven, Hercules died, rose to Mt. Olympus and became a god.

Hercules gives example of perhaps the most popular hero in Ancient Greece and Rome. They believed that he actually lived, told stories about him, worshiped him, and dedicated temples to him...

...so...

Likewise the "evidence" of Hercules closely parallels that of Jesus. We have historical people like Hesiod and Plato who mentions Hercules. Similar to the way the gospels tell a narrative story of Jesus, so do we have the epic stories of Homer who depict the life of Hercules. Aesop tells stories and quotes the words of Hercules. Just as we have a brief mention of Jesus by Joesphus in his Antiquities, Joesphus also mentions Hercules (more times than Jesus), in the very same work (see: 1.15; 8.5.3; 10.11.1). Just as Tacitus mentions a Christus, so does he also mention Hercules many times in his Annals.

And most importantly, just as we have no artifacts, writings or eyewitnesses about Hercules, we also have nothing about Jesus. All information about Hercules and Jesus comes from stories, beliefs, and hearsay.

Should we then believe in a historical Hercules, simply because ancient historians mention him and that we have stories and beliefs about him? Of course not, and the same must apply to Jesus if we wish to hold any consistency to the study of history.

the story of heracles parallels jesus story only in the most simplistic fashion.

1. he was half god. there are many many MANY half gods in greek mythology.
2. someone wanted him dead.
3. he went on a journey and did amazing miraculous things.
4. when he died he ascended to another level.

this skeletal outline parallels jesus's story because it parallels just about every story ever.

1. luke skywalker was half born of the force. his father was the chosen one and his mother was a non force sensitive layman.
2. vader/emperor wanted him dead (like herod) or wanted to corrupt him (like satan - jesus's test).
3. luke's heroic journey takes him from tatooine to endor, where he does all kinds of amazing things using the force. he destroys the death star, duels vader twice, converts his father and destroys the emperor.
4. when he dies he will become one with the force, just like obi, yoda and anakin.

the differences between jesus and heracles (or luke skywalker), on the other hand, are numerous.
-jesus is not super strong. he doesn't lift up moutains or slay mythical beasts.
-jesus wasn't burned to death by a cloth soaked in hydra blood.
-jesus's magical poison longbow was not used in the trojan war.
-jesus didn't perform 12 awesome labours.
-jesus didn't get his very own constellation when he died (engonasin)

perhaps the biggest difference is that heracles's (or luke's) death made (or will make) no difference for the state of mankind whatsoever in the greek myth, whereas jesus's death means a great deal in the christian story.

that's way beyond the scope of the argument. there's a whole field of study devoted to proving or disproving the existence of a historical jesus. i would argue that it doesn't even matter. if it's a matter of faith, it certainly doesn't matter. christians will continue to believe in jesus regardless, as they should. faith is belief in the absence of proof, after all. if it's a matter of science, it's really a moot point to try and prove that some person actually existed at a particular moment in time.

hehe I liked the Starwars comparison.

I agree Jesus's death means a great deal in the christian story. I argue that the stories themselves surrounded jesus were just written better than the predecessors.

And so, historical Jesus may have existed, perhaps based loosely on a living human whom told of great wisdom, even though his actual history got lost. But this amounts to nothing but speculation and is another subject to argue about and I am apologise. However, Im simply pointing at an abundance of evidence supporting the mythical evolution of Jesus, which I am trying to prove here. Which may include the possibility of a non existent jesus.

How do you mean he exist and fables come and go?

Hand crafted by men, how 'bout the Bible offers fear. An offer weak minds can not refuse.

I disagree.
Lets find a way to get back on topic

and yet people confuse words like "young woman" to mean "virgin", "many" to mean "40", etc. Go figure.

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