This is a repost that I am making from "The Club."

Okay guys, I think I have finally decided on the sub/amp set up I want to get for my DD, but I would like to hear of any comments or user experiences any of y'all might have. I apologize now for the following lengthy post, but I ask that you please read it.

The subs are going to be either 10" or 12" Inifinity Kappa Perfects. I'm thinking of just getting the .1s instead of the VQs because I don't really see a big enough difference between the two to make up for the price.

Here's the 10": http://www.cardomain.com/item/INFPERFECT101
And here is the 12": http://www.cardomain.com/item/INFPERFECT121

As you can see the specs on the subs are about the same (minus the size, of course) and a slight difference in dB sensitivity between the two. Is 18hz-150hz a big enough range? My car runs 6x8s all around, and I think they go down to, like, 70hz or whatever; so, I shouldn't notice a huge gap in bass, right?

I'm definately not looking for a "hey look how loud I am" system but rather a nice, clean sounding sub that will compliment the rest of my system. I could care less if the person 10 feet away, much less hundreds of feet, can hear me. I'm thinking that a sealed box of about 1 cu/ft would be good for the sound that I'm looking for: does that sound about right?

So, does anyone have any experience with the Inifinity Kappa Perfect subs? I have only heard their component speakers, and I know that they are very high quality; which makes me believe that this will be a high quality, beautiful sounding sub. I would just like other opinions...

As for the amplifier, I found this Audiobahn A8000T, and I think it looks pretty good for my application. It can be found here: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-z2eD8h...120&I=037A8000T

It produces 400watts RMS on 1 channel at 4 ohms; which makes it perfect for a 350 watt RMS 4 ohm sub correct? It's always better to run a little more power than less on a sub, correct?

The only thing that I am really concerned with with this sub is the fact that it is classified as a Class AB amp, and I know that for a sub, a Class D is usually preferred. Does this matter much? Has any had any experience with Audiobahn amps?

The only experience that I have had with Audiobahn is with the pair of dual 12" high excursion subs my brother used to have, and they sounded okay; but they were too loud/sloppy for me. So, from that, you can see that I have absolutely no knowledge of Audiobahn amps.

The main things that have really drawn me to this setup have been cost and reviews. Both items have seem to have gotten very good reviews, and their prices aren't too, too straining on a 17 year old making $5.15/hour.

The head unit that I am going to be using is a Panasonic CQ-DF802U aka The Ghost Faced Head Unit, and I may be using the V12 4 channel-amp in my 7 for my DD to power my door speakers. If I do not use the V12, I will just use the ~20watt rms/50 watt peak power from the head unit. It all depends on space/time/etc.

So, that's about it. Please give me your opinions/flames/etc. Once again, I apologize for the length of this damned post, but I certainly appreciate anyone who reads this or even possibly answers my questions.

Thanks.

-Shawn

I'd just get an infinity amp to go with it....

Well, the Infinity amp is 456 watts at 4 ohms, would that be a bit much for everyday use on a 350 watt RMS sub?

If it isn't, it is $50 more expensive than the Audiobahn, and the Audiobahn has a much higher Signal to Noise Ratio (100dB compared to 70dB); yet a narrower range on the Low-Pass Crossover Frequency (50-120hz compared to 32-320hz). The Infinity also needs 14.4 volts to run while the Audiobahn only needs 12.5 volts. So, is the Infinity really worth it?

I have no experience with Infinity or Audiobahn(although I have heard good things about Perfect subs). But I do know that you definitely want a higher signal-to-noise ratio and lower voltage to run the amps. So I guess Audiobahn would be the better amp.....Crossover frequency isn't important. The Perfects frequency response is 18-150 Hz., so 50-120hz would be sufficient.

I've owned a set of Kappa Perfect 10" subs, and they're probably some of the cleanest sounding subs i've had, especially compared to my muddy sounded SPL subs I use for competitions.

The only problem I see with your possible setup is the amplifier. I've owned some Audiobahn equipment and the amps were shitty. I'm not gonna sugar coat it for you. So-so sound quality, bloated power ratings, just all out crap.

I'd go with a JL, Kicker, or Lightning Audio amp (not the Lightning Audio bullshit that was in Best Buy, see their site for their "good stuff".

1.0ft^3 enclosure should be fine for the type of setup you're going after. It'll be clean, tight bass.

You may not be heard a mile away, but Kappa Perfects have some decent output for their rated power.

I'm kinda in a rush, but i'll have a more detailed reply for you later. If you have any specific questions, hit me up on AIM. I'm not the SQ buff I once was, but if you want a quality setup and don't wanna spend a lot of cash, I have tons of recommendations.

-Bryant

Here's an issue you may run into...

If you are going to purchase the Kappa Perfect's, they have single 4 ohm coils. If you buy a stereo amp that is 400x1 bridged at 4 ohms, and 200x2 @ 2 ohms for example, you won't get the full potential from the amp because you can't bridge the speakers to a 4 ohm load on the amplifier, and since the speakers are single 4 ohm, the most you'll get from each individual channel is around 150 watts on average.

4 ohm + 4 ohm = 2 ohm, wiring parallel
4 ohm + 4 ohm = 8 ohm, wiring series

Your best bet is to buy a "MONO SUBWOOFER" amplifier. I can't stress that enough. Don't buy a 2ch. amp. Some quick suggestions:

Kicker 600.1
JL 500/1 (expensive, but damn worth it)
MTX 801D
Lightning Audio S1000D
Hifonics Class D Amplifiers

^ These are all Class D amplifiers, which is what i meant by "MONO SUBWOOFER" amplifier.

Just to kinda give you an idea of what I have...

My setup, which is two Power Acoustik Fubr 10"s, 2 Power Acoustik LT 900/2, Optima Gel Cell, 150 Amp alternator....etc, could make your ears bleed :) On a good day, now I can hit mid 150db range.

I use two stereo amps(Class AB) because I have amp on each sub, so I can take full advantage of the mono channel on the amplifier, which is usually 1050w each.

Keep in mind, I'm reading this as if you're buying "2 subs". If you just want a clean sounding system, you don't have to buy 2 subs, you can go with one 12" Kappa Perfect and run a good 500w amplifier and be very happy, especially if you use a tuned ported enclosure, but you'll loose a tad bit of SQ with ported/vented enclosure.


I live, breathe, and sleep car audio. So if you have any questions, post em. I'd be nice to see this forum get more attention.

I'm in the middle of buying a Harrison Labs Class D 400.1 4 ohm amp on eBay for $268 shipped.

My brother has a HL 800 watt hooked to his Kicker L7, and it is fantastic. The fact that I am buying a brand new amp that retails at $400 (where you can find them) for $268 shipped from HLabs themselves has gotten me pretty damn excited.

Thanks for your help, guys.

And BTW, I am buying a single Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1 sub to be powered by a Harrison Labs 400.1 4 ohm amp.

Sounds like a good setup. Harrison Labs makes some good stuff from what i've heard. Get a good enclosure, and you're good to go.

I'm in the middle of buying a Harrison Labs Class D 400.1 4 ohm amp on eBay for $268 shipped.

My brother has a HL 800 watt hooked to his Kicker L7, and it is fantastic. The fact that I am buying a brand new amp that retails at $400 (where you can find them) for $268 shipped from HLabs themselves has gotten me pretty damn excited.

Thanks for your help, guys.

And BTW, I am buying a single Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1 sub to be powered by a Harrison Labs 400.1 4 ohm amp.

The best advice I can give you is simple: The sub you are buying is going to have a sheet of paper that will give you their recommended dimensions for an enclosure. DO NOT BUY A PREFABBED BOX. Build your own, using their dimensions. Here's the thing though... You just need to use their internal volume dimensions. In other words, if they say the best dimensions for a box are 18 x 12 x 14, you can change those numbers around to make it fit. For example:

18 x 12 x 14 = 3024 cubic inches. So, if you don't want the box to be 14 inches deep, say you only want it 8 inches deep, you divide 3024 by 8, giving you 378. Now, let's say rather than 18 inches across, you want to go with 24 inches across... That means 378 divided by 24, leaving you with 15 3/4. So, your box will have the same volume, but will now be 24 x 8 x 15 3/4, which might be a better fit for your trunk/hatch. I used to run a single 12 in a bandpass box, and by manipulating the dimensions they gave me, I was able to have a long, narrow band pass box that sounded awesome, but without taking up my entire hatch (this was in my old Eagle Talon). You can manipulate the dimensions in any way you would like as long as the volume stays the same and the speaker can fit. In other words, if you have a 12 inch sub with a 6 inch mounting depth, you know your box has to be at least 12 by 12, and has to be at least 6 inches deep. Sure, there might be a slight trade off by making the box different than their exact specs, but it will still be a damn sight better than any off the shelf enclosure.

Use 3/4 inch MDF, make sure you seal the ever loving shit out of it (get a caulk gun and a tube of liquid nails) screw it down every two inches, brace it internally, etc, etc...

The number one cause of shitty sounding bass is poor enclosures. The time and effort you put into building the box will be totally worth it when you hear how nice it sounds. I bought two Kenwood 10s and a Kenwood 2 channel amp at Best Buy... They had it on sale. It included a prefabbed box, so I went ahead an threw the subs in there just so I could have something to listen to... It pounds, sounds pretty decent... But I know the prefabbed box is too small for the subs, and when I move them to the custom enclosures I'm building for my FB, they are going to sound 100 times better.

It's all about the enclosure.

100% Agreed. My brother and I worked on my current enclosure for about a month before we got it tuned properly, built to take 2000w of power and abuse. Without bracing, it would have blew itself clean apart by now.

$100T2, I know the exact Kenwood setup you're speaking of. It actually doesn't sound too bad. I had the KAC-801 Amp a while back and for what it was for, it served its purpose and put out a bit of power for the single sub I had it on at the time.

Trust me, I know the importance of the quality with which you put into your enclosure.

I was just wondering if you guys know anything about prefill. On Inifinity's website, they show a diagram of the type of box that I want to build, and it has 1" prefill on all sides. WTF can I find this stuff, and does it really improve the sound quality a lot?

Here's the link to wtf I'm talking about: http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Boxes%20and%20Parameters/KAPPA%20PERFECT%2012-1%20Enclosure%20Sheet.pdf

Look at the first diagram on the page, it's the "sealed box volume" picture.

Trust me, I know the importance of the quality with which you put into your enclosure.

I was just wondering if you guys know anything about prefill. On Inifinity's website, they show a diagram of the type of box that I want to build, and it has 1" prefill on all sides. WTF can I find this stuff, and does it really improve the sound quality a lot?

Here's the link to wtf I'm talking about: http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Boxes%20and%20Parameters/KAPPA%20PERFECT%2012-1%20Enclosure%20Sheet.pdf

Look at the first diagram on the page, it's the "sealed box volume" picture.

Prefill makes the sub think that it's enclosure is bigger than it really is, so you may notice a slight gain in sound. It also keeps the sub from having that annoying pinging sound from the enclosure.

oh BTW, you can get it from a local Mom and Pop's Car Audio Store

or...

You can go to Wally World, get a pillow, rip it open and presto! :D There's your prefill.

I was under the impression that it was a mat... It says that it was 1" thick on all walls; so, it has to be a sheet of some sort in order for it to be uniformly put in the box.

Is it sort of like a sheet of Dynamat or would Dyna mat do the exact opposite of what prefill does?

I was under the impression that it was a mat... It says that it was 1" thick on all walls; so, it has to be a sheet of some sort in order for it to be uniformly put in the box.

Is it sort of like a sheet of Dynamat or would Dyna mat do the exact opposite of what prefill does?

Not a mat, it's just cotton. I'll find some pics and show you exactly what I mean...

I was planning on building just a square box, but I heard that square boxes tend to have wave cancellation problems. However, I also heard that when you are building a box that is as small as 1 cu/ft, you don't really have to worry about cancellation.

So, what should I do? Should I build a box that is square or should I create a box with an angled side? Also, when doing bracing, does it necessarily have to be from the inside or can I get, like, four metal corner pieces and cap the corners of the box for bracing? Maybe a metal L-bracket for each wall, too?

Finding dimension for a box that is exactly 1 cu/ft is a pain in the ass, especially an angled box. I found dimensions on one site that were for an angled box and they are as follows:

Depth = 17.402”
Width = 13.858”
Height 1 = 12.441”
Height 2 = 8.425”
Thickness = .75”
Interior volume = 1.1012 cu/ft

So, I figured that could be a starting point to work with. www.the12volt.com has calculators to figure internal volume of boxes; so, I think I am going to tinker on their site to try to work the numbers into "normal" decimal ranges (i.e. .250" = 1/4") to make it easier to measure out when building my box.

**EDIT** I was just tinkering on the site (much like I said I would), and I think I got it pretty close to perfect. The new dimensions that I think would work quite well would be:

Width: 14"
Height 1: 14"
Height 2: 7.625" (7 5/8")
Depth: 15.25" (15 1/4")
Thickness: .75" (3/4")
Interior Volume: 1.00086 cu/ft

Now.... to make sure my trunk is atleast 14" tall... Heh.

**EDIT 2** OH! Just got another question! For an angled box, how should I make the joints for the angled corners? I tried doing an angled box before, and I fucked up so badly on guessing the angle. So, is there an easy way to find out the angle I need? I also need to figure out how long the (would be hypothenuse) board needs to be.

Just go buy a w7 and 1000/1 or 500/1 and get it over with.

Just go buy a w7 and 1000/1 or 500/1 and get it over with.

Amp + sub + materials = less than a W7 by itself

STFU.

JPAccord has 2 12W7's and 2 JL 1000/1's in his car, and he spent a pretty penny on that stuff, but you get what you pay for.

Anyway, honestly you really don't need bracing for the amount of power you're using anyway. Chances are, you'll be in the 500w range and that isn't nearly enough to break apart an enclosure. It's not a bad idea, but I wouldn't bother with bracing a box for 500w unless you plan on doing a serious power upgrade later, but even at that, you'd be better off building another enclosure in that case.

You don't have to have "exactly" 1ft^3 enclosure, as the sub will offset that number anyway. Get as close as you can to 1ft^3 (include the sub's ft^3) and you'll be fine.
As for an angled enclosure, you don't have to build an angled enclosure, but don't build a perfect square either. Those will have the cancellation issues you spoke of in your post. I've never really bothered making angled enclosures anyway. For the time and effort you put into them, you can easily make a normal box and be just fine.

Amp + sub + materials = less than a W7 by itself

STFU.

And from the reviews I've read, the W7 isn't actually that great.

And from the reviews I've read, the W7 isn't actually that great.

oh but it is....

oh but it is....

Wow, that's a great counter Zero!

Well, now that this thread has been brought back up, I got my amp in. It's now sitting pretty in my bedroom. Heh. Funds have been cut recently, and the sub has been put on hold until I recoup some of the money that I have spent recently.

As for the w7 debate. There's no doubt that it is an excellent sub, but I don't think the price is justifiable.

go with the perfect and the infinity amp, the audiobahn sends HUGE amounts of distourtion out, its good for dB but NOT everyday use, screw it, get PPI and JL Audio, o nvm, $5.15/hr wont happen :) good luck

Way to fucking read the thread, jackass.

Shut the fuck up, and exit at your left, please?