Is the bible the literal word of God or an interpretation of ideas set forth by God?

it is a mere work of fiction written down over countless generations.



the easiest/quickest way to create a religion:

1) Come up with a story, should take about 1 page.
2) Pile on the bullshit, should take about 999 pages.
3) Come up with a set of morals/beliefs to fit the bullshit and the story
4) Wait for followers to flock.

It's an inspirational tool

It's an inspirational tool

Uh huhuhuh, you said "tool", uh huh huhhuhhuh!

Yeah yeah heh heh hmhm heh!

metaphor to explain and mesmerize the local village idiots.

Imagine explaining a billion years of evolution to them with no scientific equipment.

good thing they didn't dig up dino bones 100's of feet in the ground.

Is the bible the literal word of God or an interpretation of ideas set forth by God?

I'll go with option C:

A collection of fables used to explain things the people of those times didn't have the scientific knowledge to understand, and a tool to teach morals and values.

Basically, the Bible is the same thing as Greek Mythology or ancient Chinese proverbs.

No evolution:
Dinosaurs = Jesus Horses

:rolleyes:

you guys must get a hard on over this stuff.

you guys don't know anything about the bible...

#1 what the bible is will depend on who you ask. crazy fundies like YZF will say its the literal word of god written by his hand himself.

#2 biblical study has pretty well established that the bible was penned by various people over the course of hundreds of years; with later books even reinterpreting older ones. the actual books in the bible are selected from a much larger group of various books put out by various sects within the jewish/christian community.

just to illustrate the catholic bible has more books then the christian bible. there are other churches that also have variations on the bible that exclude certain books and include other ones.

the core books of the bible are the canon, and it changes depending by who you go by; but i believe its typical practice to go by the protestant selections. all other books are 'aprocryphal' works.

the reinterpretation of earlier works by later works has become formalized in the jewish tradition of midrash - truth through interpretation; since the way of prophecy was literally closed in the old testament.

also books that are supposedly written by biblical characters as first hand accounts are generally accepted as being penned by other authors writing decades or centuries later. its been a while since college but i believe this term of art is 'pseudipigrapha.'

there's alot of interesting stuff to be read here. the deluge has various interpretations depending on what books you choose to read.

a. god gets pissed at people and tries to drown them all (core belief)
or
b. angels known as the grigori (the watchers) teach people magic, have sex with women and breed giants, god gets pissed and tries to drown the giants and stupid people (book of enoch)

and whats really interesting is if you take an apocryphal work, and go back to the established versions of the bible, you can see traces of the interpretations in there.

for my above example; enoch's story is fleshed out in the book of enoch. hes basically the first scribe, like ever. and then got snatched him up and made him a chronographer of all events, like forever. in the KJV version (which mainstream christians read) enoch is mentioned in the geneologies in genesis and it says something like, 'he lived so and so years, and then he was not, for he walked with god.'

another example can be found in the story of the grigori. even in the KJV version of the deluge, it says "the sons of god" slept with the "daughters of men." if you never read the aporcryphal works, you wonder why the author made such a strange distinction between sons of god and daughters of men... it's because the author was referring to literal sons of god, aka soon to be fallen angels. the modern interpretation of sons of god is now just regular men; which has essentially changed the meaning of the deluge story.

I always have said the KJV version was a boring story.

I'll bet they left a lot of books out because they knew people would call B.S. on it much faster if it had angels fucking women to make giants and wizards.

That sounds like Harry Potter. That's a bible I'd like to read.

:roll:

Only the gospels of Jesus Christ can be considered the actual word of God, as he was God incarnate and his actual words were recorded. The rest of the bible is considered to be inspired by God through divine revelation.

Not that you agnostics and atheists really care, but I thought I'd tell what I know....

Only the gospels of Jesus Christ can be considered the actual word of God, as he was God incarnate and his actual words were recorded.
...
I thought I'd tell what I know....You were there, huh?

the modern interpretation of sons of god is now just regular men; which has essentially changed the meaning of the deluge story.Wow, what a relief they cleared that up... :rolleyes:

Is that all you got? Like you were around millions of years ago to witness evolution actually produce advanced species from single cell organisms?

Is that all you got? Like you were around millions of years ago to witness evolution actually produce advanced species from single cell organisms?Well, we seem to be pretty much fresh out of people that rise from the dead, walk on water, or live 900 years, so you'll have one hell of a time convincing me that your version of the truth is any more plausible.

No one said that you had to buy evolution hook, line, and sinker to be able to recognize the Bible for the steaming load of horseshit that it is.

Wow, what a relief they cleared that up... :rolleyes:

can you try not to be an ass? :dunno:

considering the bible is one of the oldest books in human history, i think its worth a little bit of study regardless of whether or not you believe in one of its associated religions.

what you call a pile of shit has only shaped the course of the western world, for better or for worse, for the past 2000+ years; and continues to do so today.

three major religions that currently define global conflict all draw from or contribute to the bible. (brownie points if you can name them).

major conflicts that exist today can be traced to stories in the bible. aka israel vs arabs. or in biblical terms, isaac vs. ishmael. (yes, its in both the bible and the koran).

i guess a basic understanding of what the bible is isn't important at all in the modern day. it has nothing to do with national politics and global conflict. it also has nothing to do with world history, spanning from late antiquity to the fucking modern day.

you are just as bad as religious fuckheads who discount evolution and other proven scientific theories with absolutely no logical justification.

can you try not to be an ass? :dunno:So does that mean that if I was trying to be an ass, I was successful? :D

considering the bible is one of the oldest books in human history, i think its worth a little bit of study regardless of whether or not you believe in one of its associated religions.I've read it. There's far better fiction available these days.

what you call a pile of shit has only shaped the course of the western world, for better or for worseMostly worse...

for the past 2000+ years;Do you know why?

and continues to do so today.Unfortunately.

major conflicts that exist today can be traced to stories in the bible. aka israel vs arabs. or in biblical terms, isaac vs. ishmael. (yes, its in both the bible and the koran).Well hell, that's something to be proud of...

i guess a basic understanding of what the bible is isn't important at all in the modern day.Not really.

it also has nothing to do with world history, spanning from late antiquity to the fucking modern day.The contents of the Bible itself have nothing to do with world history. Their use and interpretation, on the other hand, continue to cause problems to this day.

you are just as bad as religious fuckheads who discount evolution and other proven scientific theories with absolutely no logical justification.No, the difference is that I'm not out to prove evolution is the only alternative by discounting creationism as completely lacking substantiating evidence of any kind.

ROAR so angry

pov problem!

I'll go with option C:

A collection of fables used to explain things the people of those times didn't have the scientific knowledge to understand, and a tool to teach morals and values.

Basically, the Bible is the same thing as Greek Mythology or ancient Chinese proverbs.

Exactly. If you examine the sociologial and historical context that the bible came out of you can see how it came to exist without a single virgin birth, ressurection, etc.

It's all about conveying a world view in a way that will get people to listen.

considering the bible is one of the oldest books in human history

It's not even close, it's just that Christians like to ignore that there were pretty advanced societies before 0 AD, they just weren't Chrisitian.

It's not even close, it's just that Christians like to ignore that there were pretty advanced societies before 0 AD, they just weren't Chrisitian.

wtf are you talking about? who said anything about christians?

how about the jews? and the various cultures with their own religious beliefs that subsequently influenced and contributed to stories and writings in the old testament?

gosh, that wouldn't be advanced societies extant before 0AD, would it?

Evidently, the extensive written records of neighboring countries such as Egypt, Assyria, etc., do mention some of the stories of the Bible and its main characters before 650 BC. See the book references below.

that would place the torah in existence contemporaneous with classical ancient greece. the earliest surviving chinese writing was written 'perhaps' in 13th century BC (and these are carvings on bones, not pen onto some kind of paper), which would mean the torah was being composed only a few hundred years after china began written language.

if that doesn't constitute portions of the bible as 'some of the oldest known writing' in the world; then i don't know what writing you are thinking of. space aliens?

wtf are you talking about? who said anything about christians?

I did, in the course of ALSO stating that the bible isn't close to being one of the oldest books in human history.

The fact that the bible itself contains ideas and influences from older works doesn't change this, it actually reinforces my point. It means the bible was written AFTER all those other works.

aznpoopy, it's hard to take anything you post seriously because you so obviously pull your supporting evidence straight out of your ass.

the bible from what i understand was writtenby kings

now think about it
kings are selfish people all they want is influence

so twist the original story around alot and what you get is the king james new testament

a bastardized story meant as control


good comparison would be hitler

hitler>speeches>aryan way of thought
kings>bible>catholocism

aznpoopy, it's hard to take anything you post seriously because you so obviously pull your supporting evidence straight out of your ass.

whatever dude. :rofl:

Poopy's getting shit on :(

it happens, that's why the internet rawks.

for better or for worse, i think i should clarify that i'm not christian so it's not vital everyone agrees with my point of view. i'm not out to save anyone's soul.

and jimlab, some books in the torah are that old; if you need proof of a pre-0AD israel just go look up babylon and assyria. they're credited with pwning jeruselum and judah etc. circa 500b - 600c. obviously there must was some form of the OT extant for the jewish nationals living in the last days of the independent jewish kingdoms.

as for the issue of 'older books', well there are only a handful that i can think of off the top of my head, those being babylonian and sumerian. for instance, there's the babylonian creation myth aka 'enuma elish' or something like that, from which genesis draws from heavily.

taht being said; loudroom, we are in a fight over semantics. just because there are older books that doesnt make elements of the OT *some of the oldest*. and the fact remains that the OT is probably one of the oldest that is *still* in mass circulation. everyone knows the basic stories of the OT; hardly anyone i know has read the code of hammurabi or the enuma elish. however i will acknowledge that some of those few older writings are far, far, far, far older then the OT.

btw chinese pwn all

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2956925.stm

we were etching shit on tortoise shells long before you round eye devil barbarians divied up europe from the carcass of the roman empire. *evil laugh*

Poopy's getting shit on :(


we were etching shit on tortoise shells long before you round eye devil barbarians divied up europe from the carcass of the roman empire. *evil laugh*


:roll:

and the fact remains that the OT is probably one of the oldest that is *still* in mass circulation.


Aesop's Fables, 6th century BC
The Art of War, 4th century BC
The Tao-te Ching, 6th century BC
The Illiad, 800BC
The Odyssey, 800BC

http://classics.mit.edu/Browse/index.html

....and the Greeks were WAY better than the Romans anyways. :tongue:

The Bible's old, but there are hundreds of significant works that are older.

I don't mean to shit on you, but IMO there are LOTS of important books older than the bible.

HAH

i totally forgot about homer...

:doh:

and i'm always telling people i like classical greek and roman history...i blame brad pitt entirely...

i still say those books were written around the same period as the torah was being composed...;) but since i did say the bible and not the torah; you are right... bible ot + nt is a much later work then torah or the books you listed.

btw enuma elish totally blows those away... dated to "at least" 1700 BC. if you like old texts, definintely go check it out. ^_^

evolution (adaptation/speciation/genetic drift) is rock solid science, but it has NOTHING to do with origins



how does evolution have nothing to do with orgins, we orginated from a monkey, that evolved from something, and so on...

... damn i had a whole speech for you earlier today but cant remember.... something to do with evolution and adam and eve.... i dunno i will come back to me at some point

One beef I will pick here: The Judeo Christian world is not the only one that records a flood. Many of the American and Asian cultures have stories of a flood that wiped out the world.

I had heard you wouldn't be joining us here. Welcome, I look forward to some DoO style joy in the near future.