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Join in on this Discussion and see the pictures. Click here-> : Bush focuses on long-term impact of energy bill


BATMAN
08-08-2005, 03:29 PM
As oil prices hit another new high, President Bush on Monday signed an energy bill he called vital to the U.S. economy but conceded that it offered no short-term relief from rising gasoline costs.

The $14.5 billion legislation, passed by Congress after a four-year battle, boosts oil, natural gas and electricity supplies and promotes alternative energy sources. Bush said it was "a critical first step."

"We're not going to solve our energy challenges overnight," he said. "Most of the serious problems, such as high gasoline costs and rising dependence on foreign oil, have developed over decades. It's going to take years of focused effort to alleviate those problems."

The price of a barrel of crude oil hit a new high of more than $63 on Monday. The national average price of a gallon of gas is $2.29. The United States relies on foreign oil to meet 60 percent of its daily petroleum demand of almost 21 million barrels. Gasoline use accounts for 2 out of every 5 barrels consumed.

"This economy of ours has been through a lot and that's why it's important to get this energy bill done to help us continue to grow," Bush said. "What this energy bill is going to do, it's going to help keep momentum in the right direction."

Before his speech, Bush emphasized the environmentally friendly aspects of the legislation by touring Sandia National Laboratory's National Solar Thermal Test Facility.

Wearing stylish sunglasses in the bright sunshine, he and Republican Sen. Pete Domenici of New Mexico were led through an array of giant solar dishes with computer controlled mirrors that reflect and concentrate sunlight.

PARABOLIC DISH

Each parabolic dish can produce 25 kilowatts of electrical power, enough to power about 10 homes.

Supporters of the energy bill say it will revive America's nuclear power industry, boost oil drilling, convert coal into a cleaner-burning fuel and use home-grown, corn-based ethanol to stretch gasoline supplies.

But environmental groups and some Democrats criticize its extensive tax breaks, subsidies and loan guarantees as a lavish gift to energy companies already enjoying near-record profits.

"Big energy lobbyists may be cheering the bill's enactment, but ordinary Americans had better hold fast to their wallets," said Anna Aurilio, legislative director of U.S. Public Interest Research Group. "As gasoline prices careen out of control, the bill keeps America speeding down the wrong road toward more oil consumption, more drilling, and more pollution."

Most Americans will feel the impact of new law in 2007 when daylight-saving time is extended by one month to save energy.

Consumers will also be able to claim tax credits for installing more energy-efficient windows and solar panels on their homes and purchasing hybrid fueled vehicles.

The new law will not curb oil imports with stricter fuel mileage requirements for gas-guzzling SUVs and other vehicles.

When Congress returns from its summer break in September, lawmakers will turn to implementing the next -- and most controversial -- phase of Bush's national energy plan -- allowing oil drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

Bush's Republican allies in Congress plan to add ANWR drilling language to legislation that funds the day-to-day working of the federal government.

If Congress approves drilling in the Arctic refuge this year, the first oil would not begin flowing until 2015 and reach a peak output of almost 1 million barrels a day, assuming the government leased the first exploration tracts in 2007, according to the Energy Department.

ComradeGiant
08-08-2005, 03:38 PM
I would almost approve of that bill, except that its the most pork-laden bill in the history of US politics.

aznpoopy
08-08-2005, 03:57 PM
drilling in ANWR isn't going to make a difference at all... :rofl:

but i think it's a sign of the times. this lifestyle is fucked! FUCKED I SAY!

vrooom305
08-08-2005, 04:06 PM
^ I'm gonna invest in some horses! yeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaawwwwww!

Manntis
08-08-2005, 04:56 PM
Bush can't focus his way through a single sentance, nevermind a bloated bill like that one.

BATMAN
08-08-2005, 04:59 PM
Didn't he score a 130 IQ?

wonner
08-08-2005, 05:00 PM
Didn't he score a 130 IQ?


Who Manntis?

BATMAN
08-08-2005, 05:05 PM
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/197/1796/640/bush.jpg

firefly
08-08-2005, 05:30 PM
If he got a 130, he probably had Powell cheat for him.

BATMAN
08-08-2005, 05:46 PM
naw, one is cross-burning honky and the other is the male-portion of the noose.....

RoadRaceJosh
08-10-2005, 01:46 AM
drilling in ANWR isn't going to make a difference at all... :rofl:

but i think it's a sign of the times. this lifestyle is fucked! FUCKED I SAY!

The ANWR drilling is just going to make more money for domestic oil companies. No benefit for consumers, negative benefit for wildlife and the environment.

This lifestyle? Your lifestyle? My lifestyle won't change much. I live one mile from work. I ride my bicycle when I feel like it and should ride it more. My car sucks gas to the tune of 20 MPG, but my wife's hits 30 and it sees more miles anyway. I only drive my van when I have to move something large like the GSL-SE I still haven't taken off the trailer. Most months the van doesn't even consume 20 gallons.

Having sold my home in Portland this February I'm having a new house built near work. The new house is getting a high efficiency heat pump (only $400 extra), extra insulation, a tankless electric water heater, Energy Star dishwasher and my washer/dryer will be replaced by more efficient models. We already use compact fluorescent lights and low flow shower heads. The people that will be hurt most by the rising cost of oil in particular (and energy in general) are those that commute from the burbs in giant 4x4s and own huge houses.

So what are you doing to use less energy?

Tom
08-10-2005, 11:16 AM
^let me know how you're tankless electric water heater does. I thought about a gas model, but most current models cannot handle the rise needed for average well water temperatures here.

I actually had a gas water heater that recently sprang a leak. Even though they are 'efficient', propane was costing me $3.97 a gallon delivered. (I only have 2 gas appliances, stove and water heater- so a don't purchase enough propane to warrant the standard $2.57 a gallon charge).

It is actually much cheaper for me to get rid of this gas water heater, replace it with an electric model that uses about 4,500KW p/year. Not only is the tank $300 cheaper, but I'll save $700 a year on the net savings on my current electric vs. gas at $3.97 a gallon. (I will still use a propane range- but I have purchased a 100lb tank that I can fill myself for .94 a gallon. It should last 4-5 months).

I also plan on adding a solar water heater on the roof which should drop the energy consumption in half yet again. That is next years project.

I heat with wood (2 woodstoves and 6 cords a year) have energy efficient appliances and when the time comes- will replace my heat-pumps with more efficient models. We use mostly cf lighting throughout the house..

My electric currently averages about $75 a month for a 2,000 sq. ft home and 4 occupants. I expect it will go up to $100 a month with the addition of the electric water heater. However- I'll still be saving money in the long run due to the ass-raping I was getting for propane costs..

Manntis
08-10-2005, 03:30 PM
I posted a long response to this, but it didn't stick apparently.

Basically an ecologist from the University of Massechussets computed how much CO2 his Suburban produces, and where the energy comes from.

1 gallon of gas weighs about 6 lbs

Burning the gas in a car/truck engine creates about 20 lbs of CO2

How? 90% of fossil fuels is carbon. Burning it bonds each carbon atom with 2 oxygen atoms, turning 1lb of carbon into 3.66 lbs of CO2. A 747 flying from London to New York produces about 880,000 lbs of CO2!

1 gallon of gas came from plant and animal matter (compressed over a million years) that required a huge amount of energy to create. The atmosphere has changed in the millenia squared since, balancing out the loss of carbon and replenishing it.

When we were burning wood we were releasing carbon trapped in a plant back into the atmosphere where other plants would reabsorb it, but we're far beyond that now. Just to absorb the carbon from cars and trucks in the US we'd need to plant 11 million acres of walnut trees - mainly because we're pulling the carbon from the ground and releasing it into the atmosphere. The worse news is that the number of automobiles on the planet is projected to triple in the next 15 years, as China is already buying up every vehicle they can.

Back to the numbers: 1 gallon of gas requires the energy from 40 acres of wheat - stalks, roots, and all. To fill the Suburban's 32 gallon gas tank takes the equivalent pf an entire year of energy output from 1,280 acres of farmland. For just one tank of gas.

As Tom knows, I'm a huge proponent of biofuels. Not 5% canola and 95% diesel, because that only alleviates 5% of the problem. Rather, I'd like to see dieselelectric hybrid cars starting and stopping on diesel but running on vegetable oil - a renewable resource that takes carbon from the existing biosphere rather than introducing new CO2 mass.

Tom
08-10-2005, 03:47 PM
Aye- another project for me. Convert the military truck to full bio-diesel.

But ya know? If everyone just changed a little bit, the impact would be a lot..

Manntis
08-10-2005, 04:01 PM
yup. You'd be surprised how much CO2 is released borning fuels to create electricity to power household stuff that's on even when not in use. Cordless phones, battery chargers, cellphones, etc.

Lighting is the worst offender. People think I'm nuts for being anal about switching off lights in unused rooms, since electricity is relatively cheap, but the environmental impact of millions of people being too lazy to turn those lights off is huge.

Tom
08-10-2005, 04:12 PM
I recently purchased a handy $25 toy called 'Kill-A-Watt'. Reads the wattage usage for 110V appliances.

Much to my amazement- my cordless phone draws NADA unless it is being 'used'. That was over a 2 day period.

Manntis
08-10-2005, 04:16 PM
even the always-plugged-in base? Cool. Most use about 42 lbs of CO2 worth of energy per year.

Tom
08-10-2005, 04:30 PM
Yuppers. Came as a shock to me.

Now my freezer- yikes. I have a 20 year old GM labelled chest freezer that consumes a crap load of juice (Imagine that.. :rolleyes: )

I averaged it to 1,750 KW p/yr ($123). Newer (and larger) more efficient models average like 500-550KW p/yr.

Anyone want a chest freezer?

IHI
08-10-2005, 07:58 PM
ethanol is interesting, I'd like to develop conversion technologies to make it useful in more than just heat engines, which totally suck for efficiency

Manntis
08-11-2005, 12:23 AM
when you look at 'well to wheels' efficiency, taking into account what it takes to create the portable energy you put into your car to make it go, internal combusion engines remain the most efficient technology we've got. Augmenting it with no-recharge electrics like a hybrid that recaptures some of the lost energy from braking greatly boosts that efficiency, but electric-only vehicles suck by comparison.

IHI
08-11-2005, 11:12 PM
Burning fuel in a 30% efficient engine to run a 85% efficient generator or gearbox is not as efficient as running the fuel straight through a 60% efficient fuel cell. As good as hybrid technology is, I'm thinking far beyond the old ball and chain called internal combustion.

I'm definately in the wrong major. I should hook up with this hot chem engineer I know, she could help.

Manntis
08-11-2005, 11:43 PM
Again, you're looknig at the efficiency in the vehicle only. As I already pointed out, making the energy that you then put in your car has to be taken into account. Creating the hydrogen for your fuel cell is far less efficient than you think.

IHI
08-11-2005, 11:48 PM
Hence my desire to use corn alcohol and other byproducts of organic decomposition, although making it will not be as cheap as extracting and refinining crude oil, at least not at the present time....

Hydro fuel cells suck for the reason you stated, making and storing hydrogen is extremely expensive.

Come on Manntis, you're smart, envision dumping your grass clippings from mowing the lawn into some kind of bio-mechanical digester and getting a gallon of ethanol from it. The quesion is, how much energy would that bio-digester require to do the digesting...... I'm thinking of rigging up some kind of bacteria soup or some crazy enzyme mixture, lol

Manntis
08-12-2005, 12:08 AM
I like the bio-reactor concept, as i've said before... especially since it would take energy from pre-existing biomass. Grass takes up a lot of real estate for very little biomass in clippings, however. Why not wheat stalks? A car that runs on hay would take us full circle to the early 'horseless carriage' days :)

It would be more practical, however, to distill the fuel at refinery points. Less machinery in the car to break down.

IHI
08-12-2005, 03:05 AM
Great idea, yes there is useable energy everywhere in discarded farm waste and I'm not talking just manure! After our corn and grass harvest this year (I work on a small family farm in the summer) we'll have many tons of corn stalks and hay to throw away; man this is great, it would be amazing to convert all that energy into something that could make electricity without combustion. The farmers would LOVE to stop paying $2.00 a gallon for farm diesel (off road). They would be all over this technology if it came about.

BATMAN
08-12-2005, 09:24 AM
How about Hybrids with diesel, ehtanol, or hydrogen engines?

Cheaper alternative to fuel cell.

IHI
08-13-2005, 01:10 AM
That would be excellent, or as a start maybe just a biodiesel capable hybrid. It would be pretty easy to make, get three figure mpg, use old fry oil, lol.

Manntis
08-13-2005, 02:35 AM
:werd:

IHI
08-14-2005, 12:06 AM
We need something now, gas prices are accelerating like an FD's fuel consumption when the boost hits, somebody invent something!

Manntis
08-31-2005, 02:15 PM
up another $.07/litre yeasterday and Katrina ain't helping...

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