What Came Before The Big Bang? Interpreting Asymmetry In Early Universe

http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2008/12/081216131106-large.jpg

"ScienceDaily (Dec. 18, 2008) — The Big Bang is widely considered to have obliterated any trace of what came before. Now, astrophysicists at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) think that their new theoretical interpretation of an imprint from the earliest stages of the universe may also shed light on what came before.

"It's no longer completely crazy to ask what happened before the Big Bang," comments Marc Kamionkowski, Caltech's Robinson Professor of Theoretical Physics and Astrophysics. Kamionkowski joined graduate student Adrienne Erickcek and senior research associate in physics Sean Carroll to propose a mathematical model explaining an anomaly in what is supposed to be a universe of uniformly distributed radiation and matter.

Their investigations turn on a phenomenon called inflation, first proposed in 1980, which posits that space expanded exponentially in the instant following the Big Bang. "Inflation starts the universe with a blank slate," Erickcek describes. The hiccup in inflation, however, is that the universe is not as uniform as the simplest form of the theory predicts it to be. Some parts of it are more intensely varied than others.

Until recently, measurements of the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) radiation, a form of electromagnetic radiation that permeated the universe 400,000 years after the Big Bang, were consistent with inflation--miniscule fluctuations in the CMB seemed to be the same everywhere. But a few years ago, some researchers, including a group led by Krzysztof Gorski of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, which is managed by Caltech, scrutinized data from NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP). They discovered that the amplitude of fluctuations in the CMB is not the same in all directions.

"If your eyes measured radio frequency, you'd see the entire sky glowing. This is what WMAP sees," Kamionkowksi describes. WMAP depicts the CMB as an afterglow of light from shortly after the Big Bang that has decayed to microwave radiation as the universe expanded over the past 13.7 billion years. The probe also reveals more pronounced mottling--deviations from the average value--in the CMB in one half of the sky than the other.

"It's a certified anomaly," Kamionkowski remarks. "But since inflation seems to do so well with everything else, it seems premature to discard the theory." Instead, the team worked with the theory in their math addressing the asymmetry.

They started by testing whether the value of a single energy field thought to have driven inflation, called the inflaton, was different on one side of the universe than the other. It didn't work--they found that if they changed the mean value of the inflaton, then the mean temperature and amplitude of energy variations in space also changed. So they explored a second energy field, called the curvaton, which had been previously proposed to give rise to the fluctuations observed in the CMB. They introduced a perturbation to the curvaton field that turns out to affect only how temperature varies from point to point through space, while preserving its average value.

The new model predicts more cold than hot spots in the CMB, Kamionkowski says. Erickcek adds that this prediction will be tested by the Planck satellite, an international mission led by the European Space Agency with significant contributions from NASA, scheduled to launch in April 2009.

For Erickcek, the team's findings hold the key to understanding more about inflation. "Inflation is a description of how the universe expanded," she adds. "Its predictions have been verified, but what drove it and how long did it last? This is a way to look at what happened during inflation, which has a lot of blanks waiting to be filled in."

But the perturbation that the researchers introduced may also offer the first glimpse at what came before the Big Bang, because it could be an imprint inherited from the time before inflation. "All of that stuff is hidden by a veil, observationally," Kamionkowski says. "If our model holds up, we may have a chance to see beyond this veil."

The study appears December 16 in the journal Physical Review D. It was supported by the Department of Energy and by Caltech's Moore Center for Theoretical Cosmology and Physics."

interesting read

before Supernatural inflation of the cosmos (as described in the OT prophets) there was...guess what? the Earth!

and before that...nothing

:rolleyes:

universe did not magically inflate...pure YEC speculative garbage with nothing (including scripture) behind it.

God Himself states on numerous occasions

"MY HANDS stretched out the heavens...I marshaled their starry host"

who the heck are you?

Stretching and inflating are two different things. You cant inflate anything with your hands.

Inflation requires a physical median in order to occur. If anything, by taking the stance of the universe inflating you are substantiating the big bang.

Jonald MacDonald said it himself, that the bible says what it means. "The truth is in the interpretation" So God physically used his hands to stretch out the universe. If you deny this then you deny the bible.

I'm not sure there even was an ancient Hebrew word for "inflate", it may be a language issue




So where is the passage that you quoted where He stretched it out by His hands?

look it up, I'm not your servant

I find it amazing how little you know or understand about the scripture...incredibly superficial

you're a phony, pure and simple

Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth and my right hand hath spanned the heavens when I call unto them they stand up together
Mine hand
yad (yawd)
a hand (the open one (indicating power, means, direction, etc.), also hath laid the foundation
yacad (yaw-sad')
to set; intensively, to found; reflexively, to sit down together, i.e. settle, consultof the earth
'erets (eh'-rets)
the earth (at large, or partitively a land) -- common, country, earth, field, ground, land, natins, way, + wilderness, world.and my right hand
yamiyn (yaw-meen')
the right hand or side (leg, eye) of a person or other object (as the stronger and more dexterous); locally, the south -- + left-handed, right (hand, side), south.hath spanned
taphach (taw-fakh')
to flatten out or extend (as a tent); figuratively, to nurse a child (as promotive of growth); from dandling on the palms -- span, swaddle.the heavens
shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim)
air, astrologer, heaven(-s).when I call
qara' (kaw-raw')
to call out to (i.e. properly, address by name, but used in a wide variety of applications)unto them they stand up
`amad (aw-mad')
to stand, in various relations (literal and figurative, intransitive and transitive)together
yachad (yakh'-ad)
a unit, i.e. (adverb) unitedly -- alike, at all (once), both, likewise, only, (al-)together, withal.


And this is why you fail with your YEC assertions. Inflate :rolleyes:

Go worship your Jonald MacDonald

look it up, I'm not your servant

you're a phony, pure and simple

1 Peter 4:10-11 (New International Version)

10Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms. 11If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.

WHOS THE PHONY NOW....

You keep bragging about your gifts of understanding scripture yet, when asked about it, you piss and moan like a bitch. You had a chance to reach out to someone, and you blew it. Nice walk there Mark, I think this puts an exclamation on the type of 'christian' you can truly be.

because I know my audience...in this case, a mindless antagonist who comes to the scripture not with respect or a desire to learn, with an agenda to force fit his jacked up personal beliefs to it


Christ knew his audience too, they were tax collectors and undesirables. Yet He reached out to them.
Man you just keep on digging that hole, hells at the bottom for you.
/sunday-school



you had no idead the OT prophets even discussed this issue until I brought it to your attention, then, sure, enough, you're back to your usual tangential nit-pick nonsense


Oh yes we are so blessed to have a Shepard like YOU to bring us to the light.
:roll: :roll:

Can you not even see the hypocrisy? LOL, man this is rich.

this is a debate forum, let's drop the melodrama, I'm here to debate the issues from a Biblical perspective

:jerkit:

What happened to the M1 tank? The "Eagle among Turkeys"....
LOL now take a big bite of the the shit sandwich that you just made.

this is a debate forum, let's drop the melodrama, I'm here to debate the issues from a Biblical perspective

The fuck you are.....You're here to try an feed that fragile little ego of your's and nothing else. You don't fool anyone here with this bullshit Mark. You are as transparent as a pane of glass. A "debate" to you is you saying some stupid bullshit, some one disagrees with you, you tell them they are going to hell, stupid, etc., etc., and then somehow declare victory. THAT'S NOT A DEBATE JACKASS. That's you feeding your ego because you're so insecure about everything in your life that you have to come to internet forums to get some sort of gratification. You don't fool anyone with this shit Mark. We ALL see right through your bullshit. If you want to see what an actual debate is then look at what Jon and Dennis have been doing recently. THAT'S a debate. They both have differing points of view, but yet they can disscus those points of view civilly WITHOUT telling each other that they are going to hell, or to sail off a cliff, or any of the other bullshit you come up with. Unfortunately, this is something your ego simply WILL NOT LET YOU DO so therefore, you will NEVER be able to debate ANYONE. The moment you feel threatened you sail off track and start with the personal attacks. This is something that children do Mark......CHILDREN.......Grown men can have differing points of view and still have an intellectual conversation without having to personally attack someone. You have proven time and time again that you are physically incapable of doing this and by doing so have proven to ANYONE that reads what you post that you are nothing more than an immature child with a god complex. Take your inevitable response to what I have typed here for example.....I am positive that you will tell me that I am wrong and for me to GTFO of "your" forum, or that I'm just stupid and don't know what I'm talking about, or that it's really "other people" that attack you and you have to defend your poor little self, or any number of lame ass responses that you come up with ending with some sort of prideful decleration that you are some how better than me. Another thing I can with 100% certainty guarantee is that you will find some way to blame someone else for your immature behavior. Which is EXACTLY WHAT A CHILD WOULD DO.

Now, will anything I have said here change anything you do? Unfortunately, no. But I feel the need to say it anyway because I get fucking tired of hearing you say that "you are here to debate the issues from a Biblical perspective" or that "you honestly have questions about an athiests point of view" because we all know that's pure and unadulterated bullshit. Just call it like it is Mark....You are here to feed your ego and nothing else. You are NOT doing God's work, you are NOT here to spread the Word, you are NOT here to educate the unwashed masses, YOU ARE HERE TO FEED YOUR FRAGILE LITTLE EGO AND SUPRESS THE MASSIVE FEELING OF INSECURITY THAT YOU CARRY WITH YOU EVERY SINGLE DAY OF YOUR LIFE.........

So go ahead Mark and tell me why I'm wrong and why you are so much better than everyone else here and that we are "all weeds destined for hell"......

^ I didn't read any of that bs (belongs in smacktalk, anyhow....another stalker).

I'm here to debate the issues, period.

Thank you for proving my point.

Sure lets get back to the topic of Mark not wanting to serve others, especially in a biblical forum , as instructed in scripture.

Take your inevitable response to what I have typed here for example.....I am positive that you will tell me that I am wrong and for me to GTFO of "your" forum,

get outta here you little punk

Didn't see that coming.....

how do you "serve others" on an internet debate forum? can you explain that?

Lets see....you said 'look it up for yourself' when I asked for the source scripture.

So obviously you made a decision not to share the gospel. You kept it to your self, possibly causing another Christian to stumble. You had a clear chance to post it not only for yourself but for the benefit of anyone else who may have stumbled on this thread.


1 Corinthians 8

11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

http://www.grim-planet.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/jesus_facepalm.jpg

And btw...its not a 'debate' forum. If you think it is, then you lead a sad existence.

you simply can't be serious with stuff...after all you mocking diatribe here over the past year

Dude, take Sky for example. He took a long hard look at his behavior here and he changed what he was doing. He is the clear cut example of this passage and how your behavior and what you do on a forum can show what Christ is about.

You have a long road in front of you....its clear to a lot of people here.
If you think that you cannot spread the gospel on a forum, or reach out to people here, then you are the largest fool around. I feel sad for you right now...it must be very hard to be that alone and all by yourself.

I don't hear anything you're saying, I have zero respect for you, you're all over the map from one day to the next, and you're not even in the faith. If I have a "long road", you're on the broad road to hell.

Obviously you have some problems....I dont know who hurt you in your past or why, but obviously even when confronted with the Truth you have trust issues.

Unfortunately you need to stop and make a choice here...regardless of who the messenger is.

I hope that you reflect on your actions, and how you present yourself as an example of Christ here on earth.

I hope you do the same, and acknowledge your brazen lack of respect for God's Word, a vile crime for which God threatened to execute Job's friends

you're so far out of line it's beyond words...I love God, and I love His word...I hate your silver tongued words

I think about it all the time....
And one thing I have realized is that your standard is human while His is divine. So I'll live for Him and not what you or Jonald or any other wacko cult says.

My lack of respect? Its defiantly for you there pal, not Him.
BTW, quit trying to pass the buck and take responsibility for your own actions....As an example just look at what Sky has done, you're showing no willingness to take any responsibility.

and that's your problem, superhack (aside from pride)...the entire Bible in your goofy little mind is whatever you decide it is, it is indeed a "cult", the reality of which is based on the prevailing opinion of the day

and your ongoing slander of MacArthur, a great man, continues to show how full of pride you really are

pride from slander? WTF are you talking about....I swear a monkey playing with shit makes more sense then you do.

your mocking rephrasing of MacArthur's name, which shows your insecurity and immaturity

how dense are you?

I DONT WORSHIP THE MAN.....I DONT SET HIM ON A PEDESTAL.

BACK ON TOPIC

enough from the asshole crusade already....sheesh


THANKS FOR CALLING ME AN ASSHOLE

back on topic, please

Why would anyone want to contribute if you are just going to call them an asshole?

if they could actually contribute, instead of endlessly flapping their gums about some personal, off topic agenda

I tell ya, if I was a mod here, ANY off-topic banter would be immediately deleted

Anything to do with spirituality and religion is a personal agenda.....

no, it isn't

Mark 1 :35

35Very early in the morning, while it was still dark, Jesus got up, left the house and went off to a solitary place, where he prayed. 36Simon and his companions went to look for him, 37and when they found him, they exclaimed: "Everyone is looking for you!"


Did Jesus not go off by himself for 40 days into the desert....


Man, If this is what you think you are so missing the point.

?

my point was personal comments/vendetta have no place in these debates, the stuff should get deleted before it even gets started, and it does on other forums

!

No you made the flippin comment that spirituality an religious was not person. I corrected you. Geez....did you forget what you wrote?

*sigh* you're such a moron

my post was in regard to these threads, then you made some off-the-wall comment that religion and spirituality is always "personal agenda", which is nonsense, the complete opposite of everything in the gospels

OFF TOPIC....further off topic babbling comments by you will be ignored

HEY THANKS FOR CALLING ME A MORON