not sure if this goes in here, but it is a religous holiday so i thought "why not"


ok so first we have the Christmas Tree and Decorations:

Traditions: Christmas Trees and Ornaments
The fir tree has a long association with Christianity, it began in Germany almost 1,000 years ago when St Boniface, who converted the German people to Christianity, was said to have come across a group of pagans worshipping an oak tree. In anger, St Boniface is said to have cut down the oak tree and to his amazement a young fir tree sprung up from the roots of the oak tree. St Boniface took this as a sign of the Christian faith. But it was not until the 16th century that fir trees were brought indoors at Christmas time.
From the book "Christopher Radko, The First Decade"

"It is from Germany that we today get many of our customs, songs, images of Santa, pine trees and European hand blow glass ornaments.

How these traditions traveled to England is interesting. Queen Victoria often visited relatives in Germany in the town of Coburg and while there she fell in love with a young Prince Albert. After they got married they returned to England to raise their family.

The tree that Price Albert provided his family was admired by all in England. This tree was decorated in the finest of hand blown glass ornaments. Since everyone liked the Queen they copied her Christmas customs including the Christmas tree and ornaments.

A F.W. Woolworth brought the glass ornament tradition to the United States in 1890. From 1870's to 1930's, Germans made the finest molds for making ornaments with nearly 5,000 different molds at the time. At the turn of the century there were over one hundred small cottage glass blowing workshops in Europe. Today only two respected German factory teams are capable of producing ornaments to the precise specifications of the Christopher Radko collection.

During the hayday of turn of the century ornament making, almost all ornaments were made in Lauscha, a small town nested in the Thuringian mountains. After the war, however, glass ornament production declined. Many of the craftsmen left for West Germany. Quantity rather than quality, was the Communist management philosophy. Some old molds fell into disrepair and many others were left to collect dust or were lost.

In the 1960's it was fashionable to have an Aluminum tree and all the same shape and color ornaments. Many threw away the old ornaments from Germany.

It was in the 1980's that Christopher Radko brought back the old art of making the glass ornaments for all to enjoy."
CHRISTMAS TREE TRADITION HAS ANCIENT ORIGINS

Christmas tree ornamentsKing Tut never saw a Christmas tree, but he would have understood the tradition which traces back long before the first Christmas, says David Robson, Extension Educator, Horticulture with the Springfield Extension Center.

The Egyptians were part of a long line of cultures that treasured and worshipped evergreens. When the winter solstice arrive, they brought green date palm leaves into their homes to symbolize life's triumph over death.

The Romans celebrated the winter solstice with a fest called Saturnalia in honor of Saturnus, the god of agriculture. They decorated their houses with greens and lights and exchanged gifts. They gave coins for prosperity, pastries for happiness, and lamps to light one's journey through life.

Centuries ago in Great Britain, woods priests called Druids used evergreens during mysterious winter solstice rituals. The Druids used holly and mistletoe as symbols of eternal life, and place evergreen branches over doors to keep away evil spirits.

Late in the Middle Ages, Germans and Scandinavians placed evergreen trees inside their homes or just outside their doors to show their hope in the forthcoming spring. Our modern Christmas tree evolved from these early traditions.

Legend has it that Martin Luther began the tradition of decorating trees to celebrate Christmas. One crisp Christmas Eve, about the year 1500, he was walking through snow-covered woods and was struck by the beauty of a group of small evergreens. Their branches, dusted with snow, shimmered in the moonlight. When he got home, he set up a little fir tree indoors so he could share this story with his children. He decorated it with candles, which he lighted in honor of Christ's birth.

The Christmas tree tradition most likely came to the United States with Hessian troops during the American Revolution, or with German immigrants to Pennsylvania and Ohio, adds Robson.

But the custom spread slowly. The Puritans banned Christmas in New England. Even as late as 1851, a Cleveland minister nearly lost his job because he allowed a tree in his church. Schools in Boston stayed open on Christmas Day through 1870, and sometimes expelled students who stayed home.

The Christmas tree market was born in 1851 when Catskill farmer Mark Carr hauled two ox sleds of evergreens into New York City and sold them all. By 1900, one in five American families had a Christmas tree, and 20 years later, the custom was nearly universal.

Christmas tree farms sprang up during the depression. Nurserymen couldn't sell their evergreens for landscaping, so they cut them for Christmas trees. Cultivated trees were preferred because they have a more symmetrical shape then wild ones.

Six species account for about 90 percent of the nation's Christmas tree trade. Scotch pine ranks first, comprising about 40 percent of the market, followed by Douglas fir which accounts for about 35 percent. The other big sellers are noble fir, white pine, balsam fir and white spruce.

Premission was granted for Internet use by --- Written by: David Robson, Extension Educator, Horticulture; Springfield Extension Center
CHRISTMAS TREE HISTORY

Did a celebration around a Christmas tree on a bitter cold Christmas Eve at Trenton, New Jersey, turn the tide for Colonial forces in 1776? According to legend, Hessian mercenaries were so reminded of home by a candlelit evergreen tree that they abandoned their guardposts to eat, drink and be merry. Washington attached that night and defeated them.

The Christmas tree has gone through a long process of development rich in many legends, says David Robson, Extension Educator, Horticulture, with the Springfield Extension Center.

Some historians trace the lighted Christmas tree to Martin Luther. He attached lighted candles to a small evergreen tree, trying to simulate the reflections of the starlit heaven -- the heaven that looked down over Bethlehem on the first Christmas Eve.

Until about 1700, the use of Christmas trees appears to have been confined to the Rhine River District. From 1700 on, when lights were accepted as part of the decorations, the Christmas tree was well on its way to becoming a tradition in Germany. Then the tradition crossed the Atlantic with the Hessian soldiers.

Some people trace the origin of the Christmas tree to an earlier period. Even before the Christian era, trees and boughs were used for ceremonials. Egyptians, in celebrating the winter solstice -- the shortest day of the year -- brought green date palms into their homes as a symbol of "life triumphant over death". When the Romans observed the feast of saturn, part of the ceremony was the raising of an evergreen bough. The early Scandinavians were said to have paid homage to the fir tree.

To the Druids, sprigs of evergreen holly in the house meant eternal life; while to the Norsemen, they symbolized the revival of the sun god Balder. To those inclined toward superstition, branches of evergreens placed over the door kept out witches, ghosts, evil spirits and the like.

This use does not mean that our Christmas tree custom evolved solely from paganism, any more than did some of the present-day use of sighed in various religious rituals.

Trees and branches can be made purposeful as well as symbolic. The Christmas tree is a symbol of a living Christmas spirit and brings into our lives a pleasant aroma of the forest. The fact that balsam fir twigs, more than any other evergreen twigs, resemble crosses may have had much to do with the early popularity of balsam fir used as Christmas trees.

Written by: David Robson Extension Educator, Horticulture Springfield Extension Center


http://www.christmas-tree.com/where.html

and here is a bit about santa:

Saint Nicholas and the Origin of Santa Claus print version

Bishop Nicholas, Knickerbocker Santa, and Santa Claus
Bishop St. Nicholas, early American St. Nick, & American Santa, from Santa Claus Comes to America, by Caroline Singer & Cyrus Baldridge, Alfred Knopf, 1942

How did the kindly Christian saint, good Bishop Nicholas, become a roly-poly red-suited American symbol for merry holiday festivity and commercial activity? History tells the tale.

The first Europeans to arrive in the New World brought St. Nicholas. Vikings dedicated their cathedral to him in Greenland. On his first voyage, Columbus named a Haitian port for St. Nicholas on December 6, 1492. In Florida, Spaniards named an early settlement St. Nicholas Ferry, now known as Jacksonville. However, St. Nicholas had a difficult time during the 16th century Protestant Reformation which took a dim view of saints. Even though both reformers and counter-reformers tried to stamp out St. Nicholas-related customs, they had very little long-term success; only in England were the religious folk traditions of Christmas permanently altered. (It is ironic that fervent Puritan Christians began what turned into a trend to a more secular Christmas observance.) Because the common people so loved St. Nicholas, he survived on the European continent as people continued to place nuts, apples, and sweets in shoes left beside beds, on windowsills, or before the hearth.

Dutch family waiting for Sinterklaas
"New Year's Hymn to St. Nicholas," colonial Dutch life, Albany, NY. Harper's New Monthly Magazine, March 1881
St. Nicholas Center Collection
The first Colonists, primarily Puritans and other Protestant reformers, did not bring Nicholas traditions to the New World. What about the Dutch? Although it is almost universally reported that the Dutch brought St. Nicholas to New Amsterdam, scholars find scant evidence of such traditions in Dutch New Netherland. Colonial Germans in Pennsylvania kept the feast of St. Nicholas, and several later accounts have St. Nicholas visiting New York Dutch on New Years' Eve. In 1773 patriots formed the Sons of St. Nicholas, primarily as a non-British symbol to counter the English St. George societies, rather than to honor St. Nicholas. This society was similar to the Sons of St. Tammany in Philadelphia. Not exactly St. Nicholas, the children's gift-giver.

Eastern bishop with beehive and dog
Detail from broadside by Alexander Anderson, December 6, 1810
St Nicholas Center Collection
After the American Revolution, New Yorkers remembered with pride the colony's nearly-forgotten Dutch roots. John Pintard, influential patriot and antiquarian, who founded the New York Historical Society in 1804, promoted St. Nicholas as patron saint of both society and city. In January 1809, Washington Irving joined the society and on St. Nicholas Day that year he published the satirical fiction, Knickerbocker's History of New York, with numerous references to a jolly St. Nicholas character. This was not a saintly bishop, rather an elfin Dutch burgher with a clay pipe. These delightful flights of imagination are the origin of the New Amsterdam St. Nicholas legends: that the first Dutch emigrant ship had a figurehead of St. Nicholas; that St. Nicholas Day was observed in the colony; that the first church was dedicated to him; and that St. Nicholas comes down chimneys to bring gifts. Irving's work was regarded as the "first notable work of imagination in the New World."

The New York Historical Society held its first St. Nicholas anniversary dinner on December 6, 1810. John Pintard commissioned artist Alexander Anderson to create the first American image of Nicholas for the occasion. Nicholas was shown in a gift-giving role with children's treats in stockings hanging at a fireplace. The accompanying poem ends, "Saint Nicholas, my dear good friend! To serve you ever was my end, If you will, now, me something give, I'll serve you ever while I live."

The jolly elf image received a big boost in 1823, from a poem destined to become immensely popular, "A Visit from St. Nicholas," now better known as "The Night Before Christmas."

He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot;
A bundle of toys he had flung on his back,
And he looked like a peddler just opening his pack.

His eyes—how they twinkled! his dimples how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the beard of his chin was as white as the snow;

The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath;
He had a broad face and a little round belly,
That shook, when he laughed like a bowlful of jelly.
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf. . . .
Santa in knickers, climbing in chimney

Washington Irving's St. Nicholas strongly influenced the poem's portrayal of a round, pipe-smoking, elf-like St. Nicholas. The poem generally has been attributed to Clement Clark Moore, a professor of biblical languages at New York's Episcopal General Theological Seminary. However, a case has been made by Don Foster in Author Unknown, that Henry Livingston actually penned it in 1807 or 1808. Livingston was a farmer/patriot who wrote humorous verse for children. In any case, "A Visit from St. Nicholas" became a defining American holiday classic. No matter who wrote it, the poem has had enormous influence on the Americanization of St. Nicholas.

Other artists and writers continued the change to an elf-like St. Nicholas, "Sancte Claus," or "Santa Claus," unlike the stately European bishop. In 1863, political cartoonist Thomas Nast began a series of annual black-and-white drawings in Harper's Weekly, based on the descriptions found in the poem and Washington Irving's work. These drawings established a rotund Santa with flowing beard, fur garments, and an omnipresent clay pipe. As Nast drew Santas until 1886, his work had considerable influence in forming the American Santa Claus. Along with appearance changes, the saint's name shifted to Santa Claus—a natural phonetic alteration from the German Sankt Niklaus and Dutch Sinterklaas.

The Country Gentleman
Print: St Nicholas Center Collection
Santa was then portrayed by dozens of artists in a wide variety of styles, sizes, and colors. However by the end of the 1920s, a standard American Santa—life-sized in a red, fur-trimmed suit—had emerged from the work of N. C. Wyeth, Norman Rockwell and other popular illustrators. In 1931 Haddon Sundblom began thirty-five years of Coca-Cola Santa advertisements that popularized and firmly established this Santa as an icon of contemporary commercial culture.


Haddon Sundblom
Time December 12, 1955 St Nicholas Center Collection
This Santa was life-sized, jolly, and wore the now familiar red suit. He appeared in magazines, on billboards, and shop counters, encouraging Americans to see Coke as the solution to "a thirst for all seasons." By the 1950s Santa was turning up everywhere as a benign source of beneficence, endorsing an amazing range of consumer products. This commercial success led to the North American Santa Claus being exported around the world where he threatens to overcome the European St. Nicholas, who has retained his identity as a Christian bishop and saint.


It's been a long journey from the Fourth Century Bishop of Myra, St. Nicholas, who showed his devotion to God in extraordinary kindness and generosity, to America's jolly Santa Claus. However, if you peel back the accretions he is still Nicholas, Bishop of Myra, whose caring surprises continue to model true giving and faithfulness.

There is growing interest in reclaiming the original saint in the United States to help restore the spiritual dimension of this festive time. For indeed, St. Nicholas, lover of the poor and patron saint of children, is a model of how Christians are meant to live. A bishop, Nicholas put Jesus Christ at the center of his life, his ministry, his entire existence. Families, churches, and schools are embracing true St Nicholas traditions as one way to claim the true center of Christmas—the birth of Jesus. Such a focus helps restore balance to increasingly materialistic and stress-filled Advent and Christmas seasons.


http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=35

what i bet you did not read one god damn word of what was written up there

you are just wanting to bait me, oh and if your gonna get something off the net put a source

my Jehovah Witness friend told me about the Jesus being born in the spring. he showed me a passage about how the Shepard's were tending their sheep outside, thus, i guess, you cant do that in the winter months.

I always argued with him and ask why not can the sheep still go outside and graze upon the unfrozen lands.

Here is my source from wiki:

Bethlehem has a Mediterranean climate, with hot and dry summers and cold winters. Temperatures in the winter season, from mid-December to mid-March, could be cold and rainy. January is the coldest month, with temperatures ranging from 1 to 13 degree Celsius (33°–55 °F). From May through September, the weather is warm and sunny. August is the hottest month, with a high of 27 degrees Celsius (81°–63 °F). Bethlehem receives an average of 700 millimeters (27.6 in) of rainfall annually, 70% between November and January.[48]

Bethlehem's average annual relative humidity is 60% and reaches its highest rates between January and February. Humidity levels are at their lowest in May. Night dew may occur in up to 180 days per year. The city is influenced by the Mediterranean Sea breeze that occurs around mid-day. However, Bethlehem is affected also by annual waves of hot, dry, sandy and dust Khamaseen winds that originate from the Arabian Desert, during April, May and mid-June.[48]

Jeremiah 10:1-4 Christmas cards!

Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. This is what the LORD says:

"Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the sky
though the nations are terrified by them.

For the customs of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.

They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.

wth? that is no bible passage.

News to me

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=JER%2010:1-4;&version=31;

lol, this is a first. i learned something from this religious section

Yay!

just wait, some left wing nut is going to rant about how the Roman Catholic Church borrowed a pagan holiday (Dec 25th)....so, let me save you the trouble, yes, we know that, we know Christ was likely born in the Spring of the year, but the important part is that we celebrate the Gospel

Many of the christian stories as well as the traditions were "borrowed" from the Pagans.

Telling the truth....how left wing of me.

or vice versa

see, satan knew long before the first Advent that the Messiah would come, and satan always apes/twists/manipulates God's truth...many fools follow his lies

:lmfao:

Lol... you christian folks always have a good explanation for everything :lmfao:
(Satan did it, its in the bible so its true etc.)

interesting selection, jason, did you send that out?

Nah, not exactly "gospel." :-p

just wait, some left wing nut is going to rant about how the Roman Catholic Church borrowed a pagan holiday (Dec 25th)....so, let me save you the trouble, yes, we know that, we know Christ was likely born in the Spring of the year, but the important part is that we celebrate the Gospel

No, didn't borrow a Pagan holiday...


That's on the 21st. :D

No, didn't borrow a Pagan holiday...


That's on the 21st. :D

Mithra's birthday was celebrated on the 25th:bigthumb:

"Mithras, the sun-god, was born of a virgin in a cave on December 25, and worshipped on Sunday, the day of the conquering sun. He was a savior-god who rivaled Jesus in popularity. He died and was resurrected in order to become a messenger god, an intermediary between man and the good god of light, and the leader of the forces of righteousness against the dark forces of the god evil."
- Pagan Origins of Christmas

satan knows the scriptures better than any man....and he spins many false religious cults off of them

A man after your own heart

hey can i say something, this wasn't meant to piss anyone off, hell if in fact anyone read any of this you will find many references to Saints etc, it is the symbols you use, i bet YZF puts up a tree, it came from euroupe ( an intresting fact) and the fact that it is a "fir" tree which was used by drudids (another intresting fact)

also this bit really made me think:

There is growing interest in reclaiming the original saint in the United States to help restore the spiritual dimension of this festive time. For indeed, St. Nicholas, lover of the poor and patron saint of children, is a model of how Christians are meant to live. A bishop, Nicholas put Jesus Christ at the center of his life, his ministry, his entire existence. Families, churches, and schools are embracing true St Nicholas traditions as one way to claim the true center of Christmas—the birth of Jesus. Such a focus helps restore balance to increasingly materialistic and stress-filled Advent and Christmas seasons.


also i would like to add, i am not dissing christmas it is my fav time of year, and i love nothing more than seeing the Nativity Scene played out every where!

nah no hope YZF just very special memories as a child, plus i actually loved doing R.E (religous education) at christmas time (i am not half as closed minded as you'd like to believe :P)

capitalism loves xmas.

our government is giving us money to specifically spend on xmas

Can I have some?

lol if your government had a surplus, and you didn't have bush then maybe you would have got some

Bush sent out, what, two or three "Economic stimulus" checks.

But I want some aussie free money :)

i got free company money today.

4 dayweekend coming up....2 paid

im happy in the usa

so the question still stands...can you or can you not put the sheep to grazing in Bethlehem on Christmas day?

yeah.

about them sheep.....?

should i google?

found one so far to support my claim In Luke 2:8-20 we have the announcement of the birth of the Messiah to the shepherds. In verse 8, it talks about shepherds out in the fields watching over their flock. Some sermons talk about how Messiah could not have been born on December 25th because you wouldn’t have shepherds and sheep out in the fields in December. The speaker usually is unaware of what the weather is like in December in Bethlehem. The rainy season is from Mid-October to Mid-April. As a result, by October the hills are burned dry by the sun. By December, it is a great time to be in the fields, after some rain has helped the vegetation grow.

but couldn't the weather be perfect for the coming of your Lord? Wouldn't the shepards noticed this and pushed their livestocks out to pasture?

incorrect. why we have famous nobles walking on the face of the earth during Jesus reign have dates of when they were born, but not the babe Jesus, the king of kings, god himself.

Someone would have recorded his birth. are there any stories out there that you know of that suggests that Jesus was never born nor a real person...so as to say a story about a made-up hero?

I get the 'spirit' of his homecoming in all that distraction, but still, a child that was loved, surely would have produced a date.

god has nothing to do with human dates and probably not even loving a child named Jesus. Basically, a child loved has a date. Surely the apostles knew this date. his date was likely omitted to correlate Jesus' birth on the pagan holiday.

half? was there something not clear?

the exact date of the Birth, like the date of the Resurrection, and the date of the Second Advent, are not for us to know, it's really that simple...trivial minds focus on tangential trivial matters and miss the real issues

the devil is in the details. that is why you refuse to look. if the details has holes, then the word of god isn't perfect. If the word of god isn't perfect, then it is indeed the Word of Man that enslaves your thoughts. Kind of humbling if you think about it. and if I gave a shit, I'd study full spectrum of religions and their ability to keep their members in line. (I bet id find fear)

is that the only hole you can possibly think of, ever disputed in the bible? start with king Harold and placing Jesus birth

http://www.satanspace.com/m_pictures/kid-satanic-bible.jpg

was that an angel or a star what the wisemen were chasing?