What do you think, are they real?

Have you or a friend ever encountered what you believe to be a demon (in the flesh or out of the flesh, or even in dreams)

Many religions have different approaches to demons and demonic activity.

I personally, a few friends of mine, and even non-Christian friends have run into demons in various forms.

How about you?

Share your stories and personal experiences, include as much detail as possible.

My advice for people faced with demonic activity: Cast it out, failing that, RUN.

It's serious stuff.

They're powerful! Fortunately there is one who is more powerful then the one of this earth.

fucking lunatics.

I agree, thats why I said "Run" :P

fucking lunatics.

Hrm, I'll take that as a no, you haven't run into any. :P (That you know of, at least)


I find a lot of times people are afraid to talk about it for precisely the reason illustrated here, the fear of being called a lunatic.

In America, demonic activity is a lot more "Subdued" in most peoples lives, from what I can see. Outside the US, especially in the third-world, demons behave (on average) in a different fashion. This is only my personal collection of fist and second-hand stories, however.

Personally I've only had on vivid, confirmed beyond a doubt, face-to-face with a demon that I can recall off the top of my head.

Hrm, I'll take that as a no, you haven't run into any. :P (That you know of, at least)


I find a lot of times people are afraid to talk about it for precisely the reason illustrated here, the fear of being called a lunatic.

In America, demonic activity is a lot more "Subdued" in most peoples lives, from what I can see. Outside the US, especially in the third-world, demons behave (on average) in a different fashion. This is only my personal collection of fist and second-hand stories, however.

Personally I've only had on vivid, confirmed beyond a doubt, face-to-face with a demon that I can recall off the top of my head.

You're crazy.

You're crazy.

Are you trying to convince me of that?

Or are you trying to convince yourself?

You've said that to me no less then four times tonight.

I think everyone knows where you stand in regards to your options on my sanity :P

I have never had a run in with a demon.

I did work with someone though who told me the stories of his demons he had run into. He is very religious and swears by these stories.

I have never believed in them and had no reason to fear them. Evil resides only in man. I have seen evil, I have seen death, I have breathed life into the dead and then watched them return to life momentarily only to die again. Working for a police department and working as an EMT earlier in my life, I have seen things that have described by others as evil and demonic, but I don't view them that way. We fear evil just as much as evil fears us, whether or not its a "demon".

I have never had a run in with a demon.

Indeed, and I hope you never do.

I did work with someone though who told me the stories of his demons he had run into. He is very religious and swears by these stories.

I have never believed in them and had no reason to fear them.

Only apart from God is there any reason to fear demons. They're already defeated.

Evil resides only in man.

Thats a rather powerful claim. I demand you back it up :)


I have seen evil, I have seen death, I have breathed life into the dead and then watched them return to life momentarily only to die again. Working for a police department and working as an EMT earlier in my life, I have seen things that have described by others as evil and demonic, but I don't view them that way. We fear evil just as much as evil fears us, whether or not its a "demon".

Err, when I'm talking about demons, I'm not talking about some wishy/washy "OH NOES, HE BE POSSESSED! BRING THE LEECHES AND THE DRILL!"

I'm talking about something profound, such as a man standing in front of you, who you have just met, laughing and telling you your past, specific piece by specific piece, things only you know. Evil things you have done and thought no one knew.

Or watching a witchdoctor cause objects to fly around, challenging your pastor "Can you do that?"

To that the pastor replied "No, but now you can't" and rebuked the demon.


Nothing so vague as the perceived border between life and death.

Ah, I see.

Or watching a witchdoctor cause objects to fly around, challenging your pastor "Can you do that?"

To that the pastor replied "No, but now you can't" and rebuked the demon.



YOU ARE A FUCKING LUNATIC!
:gay2:

we perferred to be called deamons

satan's primary mission in 2006 and beyond remains 1) destroy the church, 2) destroy the Jews, 3) destroy the Truth, and society with it

You seem to be doing your damnedest do perform 1) and 3) so I'd have to say that based upon that criterion, you seem to be the perfect candidate for demonhood.

originally posted by yzf-r1
9 times out of 10 when people cite "demonic activity" it's just their own flesh

ALSO posted by yzf-r1.....

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=120008&highlight=demonic#post120008

"divine logic" (dennis) and "skydivr" jon, have practiced demonic rants on rx7 club for years now...

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=119552&postcount=44

interesting to me the pure venom from atheists which threads like this generate....this moses goofball has stalked me for years, dive bombing threads with his demonic homosexual vitriol, and then running away

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=117654&highlight=demonic#post117654

no, what YOU need is a bullet in the head

you're the biggest demonic psycho on this forum, if not any forum

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=116761&highlight=demonic#post116761

you are demonic

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=116084&highlight=demonic#post116084

and the "D" stands for.....oh yeah....demonic

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=115582&highlight=demonic#post115582

jonnie is a psychopathic demonic....period

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=114309&highlight=demonic#post114309

mr. demonic frothing-at-the-mouth

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=109355&postcount=65

the frothing-at-the-mouth demonic with seizures

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=108564&highlight=demonic#post108564

when it becomes a question of who can be the biggest flaming demonic asshole, dennis is the guy

there's your nine out of ten, marky....and the tenth one?? here it is:

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=108817&highlight=demonic#post108817

no one is being "slain in the spirit" or any of that nonsense, which is likely demonic

well, whadaya know? marky's RIGHT for once!! 9 out of 10 times, when someone mentions demonic things, it is really that person's own flesh that is at issue....Thanks so much, marky, for pointing this out to us!!:bigthumb:

you and dennis are the exceptions...you loons are demonic, no question in my mind

1--you spout off about "demonic" things, yet the fact is that you use that term far more than everyone else here COMBINED.

2--you clearly use that term when trying to insult other people, not just me or dennis.

3--even for the times you insult me like that, you have no clue whatsoever. Are you without sin? Are you better than everyone else? Who gave you the authority to judge? NO ONE, that's who. And, when you find someone that you determine to be lost, your mission(and this is not negotiable, according to Jesus), is to PRAY for God to help them...NOT TO PRAY FOR THEIR DEATH. Time and again, you look down on everyone around here like your poo-poo is made of solid gold. You make claims all the time that turn out to be complete bullshit....for example, you often say that you listen when you are rebuked by those who share your faith, like tofu...but when he challenges you on your behavior, you do one of three things every time...

--First, you try to claim that the scripture allows you to act like a complete heathen, when it clearly doesnt.

--Second, you bring out the ever-popular "but they started it!!!" crap.

--when the above two fail to win your argument with him, you simply ignore him and continue being an ass anyways.

Like I said, clueless.....

HE WHO HUMBLES HIMSELF WILL BE EXALTED, AND HE WHO EXALTS HIMSELF WILL BE HUMBLED.....

3--last night was yet another perfect example....a light hearted post that contained not one single insult was immediately met with your PMs full of insults and profound wishes for my death. When the hell will you ever grow up? hopefully sooner rather than later....

As for "demonic", many would agree that one who is demonic revels in filth. A demonic one relishes the thought of death falling upon others all around him. A person that threatens to kill people with his own hands can easily fit the description of "demonic". A person that is so proud of his efforts to wish for death and destruction in this world is demonic. Come to think of it, all of those things fit YOU to a T. You confuse the single most basic element of God and you do it daily....that is COMPASSION.

Oh, and before you start going on and on again about how God is not a tolerant god, THAT WAS NEVER THE POINT, because God calls YOU to be TOLERANT of the sins of others! INTOLERANCE, He reserves for HIMSELF, NOT FOR YOU. This is the entire premise behind "Judge not, lest you be judged", as well as "Vengeance is mine, said the lord"....IT IS NOT FOR YOU. GOD sees to it that this happens. YOU ARE NOT THE ONE TO DO SO. God's intolerance shows when someone leaves this life and finds themself in the fire for eternity. YOU ARE NOT HERE AS AN INSTRUMENT OF GOD'S WRATH, you moron. YOU were supposedly called to MAKE DISCIPLES OF ALL NATIONS.....something that we dont see you putting a tenth as much energy into as you do into hating everyone.

Someone who cannot even follow the most basic of God's commands, and you call everyone else "Demonic".....:blah:

jon, take our differences off line, no one wants to read this shit, which is why I PM'd you

it was far from a "light hearted post" that resulted in my comment, it's your ongoing two faced crap, manifested again in the sex and relationship section, where I gave you a compliment, and you proceeded to immediately stab me in the back

you're worthless....let's stay on the topic, please

1--you PMed me saying that you couldnt wait for me to die. THAT is why you PMed me--to have yet another chance to be a dick.

2--The compliment you gave me was days ago, and it was clearly not involved in any way with the post I made last night. So your version of "immediately" needs correcting, as usual. So, stop making shit up as you go just to try to piss me off. No one stabbed you in the back. I merely commented on your more recent post. That's what people do here you idiot--its a forum.

3--insulting??? THIS contained insults in your eyes??

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=120428&postcount=49

not so fast, tex....you changed the words just then...

your original statement was "but beauty, structure, order ARE tangible"....so how do you switch from "beauty" to "symmetry"??

considering the error you just tried to pass off to support your argument, what should we then think about this point??

by the way, this wasnt one of your famous "typos", was it?

THAT is enough for you to justify telling someone that they need to die??

seek help, mark....you need it.

one more thing, ya friggin crybaby--stop whining like a lil bitch in PM about this shit. You are a world class prick to nearly everyone in here, and when I am not even involved, others tell you the same shit, so if youc ant handle it, the door is always open. Hell, you constantly cry about how this whole place is such a waste of your time, blah blah blah, get a clue already. The polls are being done fairly often in here recently and they all say the same thing--that the people here would rather you seek life elsewhere. Dont take my word for it--go read them for yourself. Then, dont let the door hit ya where the dog shoulda bit ya.....

off-topic

you made your point...no one cares

I sure did make my point--that you are fake as a three dollar bill. Thanks for lettin me know you finally got that point!!

when you see the death metal scene, you begin to realize how real it is, though http://www.deathmetal.com/doband.html

I perused some of this list. Pathetic. If you're not going to pay attention to God, at least do something that attracts chicks. Don't give me any bull crap about how you're into Death Metal and how much you get laid. Bullocks. You're dirty. You need a haircut. And the only chicks you get are the ones that nobody else wants. Really.

hate spewing, right??

Dont even start about hate, marky....I can easily find plenty of posts from you wher eyou are clearly telling someone that you truly hate them, want them to die, etc etc etc. If that isnt "hate-spewing", then no one here knows what is.

yes i believe in demons and ghosts and whatnot. no i've never seen a demon. i used to get harassed by ghosts 24/7 though.

we perferred to be called deamons

it's "daemon."

hate spewing, right??

Dont even start about hate, marky....I can easily find plenty of posts from you wher eyou are clearly telling someone that you truly hate them, want them to die, etc etc etc. If that isnt "hate-spewing", then no one here knows what is.


This pissing contest is not important. What's important about this thread is the Death Metal list sent by YZF.

If you people can't work with me on this, I'll leave.

This pissing contest is not important. What's important about this thread is the Death Metal list sent by YZF.

If you people can't work with me on this, I'll leave.

well, then tell your pal yzf that sending PM's telling people to die is fucking pathetic and needs to discontinue. You cannot have it both ways--if you dont like the "pissing contest" then at least be honest enough to tell the idiot who causes it to step off.

I'm sure some of you guys will make out alright as Dads, but if you don't work real hard to teach your sons how to become men, this is likely what you'll get:

http://www.amonamarth.com/

This typical example is only missing a fat bald guy with a goatee.

If the music you like is made by sweaty long haired dudes in black t-shirts, you can forget about chicks.

well, then tell your pal yzf that sending PM's telling people to die is fucking pathetic and needs to discontinue. You cannot have it both ways--if you dont like the "pissing contest" then at least be honest enough to tell the idiot who causes it to step off.


I understand...I understand...What you don't understand is there is a band out there in Denver called Dismembered Fetus:

http://www.deathmetal.com/disfetus/

There's only 1 reason to join a band, and that is to hook up with chicks. If you're in a band called Dismemebered Fetus and you hook up with a chick who knows about the band, you should kill yourself. I'm sorry but that's all I have to say.

Here's a beauty of an example:

http://www.deathmetal.com/castrum/

Do you think it's wise to join a band with a name that sounds anything like castration? What do they say when they open a show? Hello, Ladies and Gents, we're Castrum and we're gonna rock the house until our testicles drop off. Yeah Baby! Yeah.

I understand...I understand...What you don't understand is there is a band out there in Denver called Dismembered Fetus:

http://www.deathmetal.com/disfetus/

There's only 1 reason to join a band, and that is to hook up with chicks. If you're in a band called Dismemebered Fetus and you hook up with a chick who knows about the band, you should kill yourself. I'm sorry but that's all I have to say.

I am fully aware of the existence of bands like this. I have been a bass player for more than 20 years. This garbage was never my thing, but I know it's out there.

Also, that is hardly the reason to join a band. That is one reason, it isnt the only one. For you to think so, with all due respect, paints you as narrow minded. Some of us musicians actually like the music itself. Tell me, what about all those who are christians that play music? do they all fit into your label so neatly? I dont think so. I think it's really short sighted of you to pidgeonhole people like that. I have been playing for a long time and still do, and "hooking up with chicks" is nowhere on my list of priorities. Let's be real here.

As for that one band, they are sad, yes, but it is only one example of the topic of this thread. Music is only one place where you find such things. Again, be careful not to take the short-sighted approach here. Music is not the enemy, bx, people who are like this are not that way because of a song. They are that way because of who they are...and then they write these songs. there is a difference. Music, like anything else in this world, is only a medium--it is not the message, but rather a way to put a message out there. If someone puts garbage like this in, then garbage is all that will come out of it.

EDIT--what you need to also understand is that, regardless of the link he posted or how relevant to "demons" it may be, that still provides no excuse or justification for him to act the way he does to others, and it certainly does not make it so that we dont have the opportunity or the right to reply to that crap. So, he posted a relevant link--does that change the fact that he runs around acting in many ways like the people who write these songs you're upset about?? If "death metal" is the issue, and he runs around hoping and praying for people to die, HOW IS THAT NOT THE SAME THING??

here comes another rant

marky, seriously, shut the hell up. I just posted a sincere and relevant post in reply to his, and if not for your pathetic interjection of nonstop bullshit, that's all I would have typed. Yet again, you keep stirring up shit and then you wonder why there is shit to begin with....maybe if you had just SHUT UP and taken your own advice(stick to the topic stick to the topic stick to the topic), this forum would be a better place. As it is, youre nothing but a dishonest hypocrite. YOU keep this going, even when we post to others and keep it relevant, you cannot help but to cause trouble. Grow up

ha

well at least you stayed on topic for some of your post...amazing

while you continue to stray form it just to bitch about me. Had you not done that, the "ot" portion of that post would never have existed....think about that, moron, before you type a single letter in reply. I replied to HIM, and I did it 100% respectfully, all the while you act like an idiot in the background.

Do you REALLY want things to stay on topic?? Because you obviously make extra effort to provoke where it is neither needed or called for....THAT speaks volumes, champ.

when it glorifies satan it is (specifically, the bands playing it)....alot of this "music" does



true...but music has a very powerful influence which you seem to underestimate

actually I think this rap garbage is more likely responsible for the continual stream of filth that pours out of the mouth of most young kids these days....they ape what they have pumped into their ears 24/7



right

1--the "music" came from people that already had that mindset, or they never would have written that garbage. Therefore, MUSIC is NOT the enemy--what certain people choose to do with music is a product of THEIR MINDSET.

2--you dont need to tell me that music has influence. BUT--how many people out there do you think just wake up one morning in their quiet humble life and decide to listen to some death metal? You're not getting the point that so much of that community had this mindset before they had this music. Not even one song would exist unless someone had this pollution in their heart or brain enough to WRITE that song, so once again, it is obvious that the song did not come first--the "demonic" ideal existed first.

See, thats where you start getting all paranoid yzf...^ The media in general come on! WTF? Okay, lets start with this, you know the bible. You are a believer with all your soul in God, and your savior Jesus Christ.

You have been taught to accept others for who they are, correct?
You also have learned of demons through your faith, which describes them as evil beings, supernatural forces. Now 3 pages later you are calling upon any hellion who stands against you as a demon.

Please make up your mind and tell me what stance you truly take on the subject of demons...because all I see is someone who is trying harder than anything to prove to the world that he is religious when we already know it...

Much truth to this one, and they definatly did not have a demonic agenda.





Oh father high in heaven -- smile down upon your son

whose busy with his money games -- his women and his gun.

Oh Jesus save me!

And the unsung Western hero killed an Indian or three

and made his name in Hollywood

to set the white man free.

Oh Jesus save me!

If Jesus saves -- well, He'd better save Himself

from the gory glory seekers who use His name in death.

Oh Jesus save me!

I saw him in the city and on the mountains of the moon --

His cross was rather bloody --

He could hardly roll His stone.

Oh Jesus save me!

also, let me clarify that I can't "know" anyone is demonic, esp via this format...but when they have a vitriolic anti-Biblical agenda, it's certainly possible

Okay think about that statement. Your view is that anti-biblical agenda is possibly demonic.

Now think about it from the flip-side. Those who are athiests view bible thumpers (no harm intended, just lack of a better term) as people trying to hide the REAL truth from them.

It's a two way street, and people need to learn to trust each other, no matter what their views on God. That is pivotal problem in the world today.

Hey idiots. There are no demons either. You need proof of that too.

I suppose

so they invent their own religion: darwinism



how can you trust someone who denies absolute morality? does that make any sense?


In the same manner, how can anyone trust someone who CLAIMS to be associated with morality, and then chooses to purposely act thw way you do?? There is nothing moral about your complete lack of compassion, nor is there anything moral about your unreal desire to see people die. THAT, marky, is the opposite of absolute morality. You yourself just said that you are supposed to be tolerant of people....but you are nothing close to that. You are actually the complete opposite of it, with your eager anticipation of bad things that you so intensely want to happen to others....how can anyone trust YOU?? Say what you will about the so-called "demonic" jonnie, but my behavior doesnt come close to the disgusting garbage you trade each day in here. You honestly and sincerely want people to suffer and die--what part of the Bible teaches you that is acceptable??

^+Eleventy Seven

*shakes head*

you live your life with rose colored glasses

can we PLEASE stay on the topic....geez....broken record jonnie

edit, screw it....I'm sick of your endless accusations, I'm going to rub your face in your own shit (a SMALL sample of your long winded tirades from hell)

stuff you just sent me today:




what was that about "disgusting garbage"? you are without question the most hypocritical, disgusting piece of dog shit on this forum

and yeah, the world is better off with you DEAD

Exactly--I dont come close to your shit.

How many times have I said you should die?

how many times have I wished for your death?

How often do I post that I want you to suffer disasters in your life?

People go around every day and tell each other to fuck off, yourself included....but it takes a certain kind of disgusting, warped freak to sincerely want ANYONE dead. That's a FACT. And you fit the bill. You have not shown anything from me that compares to that, because I dont stoop to such a level as you do on a regular basis. So, you posted me saying the word 'fuck'....do ya want a cookie or a friggin kleenex now?

you need serious professional help, dumbass....

Not only that, but many people, myself included, post up shit like that in an argument--for example, I obviously was not sincerely telling you to suck my sausage, as much as you might have wished I was.....but you DO sincerely wish for death. Just one more example of how seriously fukked up you are....

you can't....I'm another flawed human being

but you can trust the Ancient Words

wow, that's the entire point, though, isnt it?

We cannot trust you, you admit this, so how are we supposed to trust your interpretation of the ancient words? you have already proven time and again your selfish intention to use the Word to try to bolster your own ego....

1--you cannot be trusted.
2--you still wonder why people dont trust your words when it comes to the Bible.

HMMM....a little common sense would cure your wondering, there....so, what does all this mean? Simple--stop the useless gesture. No one in this forum cares to start a thread about any topic under the sun and watch you turn them all into religious debates. Likewise, no one here cares to see you post all about how you're the steamroller, the mack truck, rolling over all of us that are "worthless pieces of dog shit", as you put it....only to screw up yourself far worse than anyone else here. Even those whom you consider fellow christians have tried many times to tell you when you cross the line, and even then it is useless because you refuse to give up the ego. Tofu tries to correct your lack of compassion, and you make up excuse after excuse why you shouldnt listen to his words.....because you are a fraud!

I suppose

so they invent their own religion: darwinism





I call it common sense.

Oh, I dunno. The fact that things evolve over time to suit their needs. Thats common sense.

Sitting on a mound of rocks in the desert, rocking back and forth praying that God will deliver food and water to you while you wait, thats not common sense. It's non-sense. You should get up off your ass, and go find something to kill, so you can eat it. Then go find some water and drink it.
Common Sense is logic that explains itself.

Therefore;
Darwinism=Logic=Common Sense
Religion=Illogical=Nonsense

Well thats good to know because I'm sick and tired of people who say "god will give it to me, he wants me to be happy" and sit on their stupid ass all day waiting for god to help them, when they don't have the common sense enough to help themselves.

don't speak for anyone aside from yourself, jerk

I dont need to, that was actually the point I was making. They have already spoken numerous times, and their sentiment echoes precisely what I said.

then again, who do you speak for?? you cant even tell the truth enough for one person, let alone speaking for others too...

endless accusations

not really--basically the same ones, but PROVEN by your own words and actions, unlike the ones you fling around. And these will keep coming your way until you wise up enough to stop trying to pin your pathetic behavior on others and accept responsibility yourself....howeverfrigginlong that may take is up to you....:bigthumb:

and it's not Biblical, either

in fact, God commanded us to "subdue the earth" (Genesis 1)....God certainly does not reward laziness

God also commanded the faithful to care for each other, to give to someone who has less, to feed those who are hungry, to help those that are without. But that requires compassion, and apparently your sunday school class hasnt gotten around to the really big words just yet...because you're still thumbing your nose at Jesus while you prefer to pray along the lines of old testament ideas that were since countermanded...

true....you go WAY beyond

you're psycho jon, pure filth, including openly blasphemous statements...what flows from your mouth is demonic....and even more telling is your flip-flop behavior



and you're worthless...endless accusations

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j298/skydivr7673/924.jpg

I'm now interested to hear people's 'demon' stories.
Share yours and I shall share mine, especially if we are lumping spirits and demons together.

So would you define demon as not inherently evil? Because the spirits I speak of are not evil.

What is your definition of 'demon?'

Mind you there is no hate or malice contained in my response, just curiosity.

But how can they be not inherently evil but from the King of the Fallen?

Not all spirits are evil. There are no facts to back this statement, as theology relies little on fact and much on faith.

Hmm, I think think I may have mis-interpreted the entire subject somehow. Probably something to do with the three pages of bickering.
I came to understand this as a subject of ALL encounters and beliefs of 'demons' and 'spirits' not just the BAD ones.
We're on two different pages of the same book here, man.

f

Acts 19

" Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.


[/i]

Possibly just a metaphor?

any encounter with a demon, where the human agent is a willing participant, can only be bad

there are many who summon demons and "contact spirits", considering the experience to be "enlightening", and ostensibly they are unharmed, but they are progressively being deceived....the demons ultimately get their prize: another soul in hell

again, you need to try reading someone's post fully before you think you know it all....this is what he said:

came to understand this as a subject of ALL encounters and beliefs of 'demons' and 'spirits' not just the BAD ones.

Clearly he was not only talking about demons....which is why he would use the word 'spirits' as well.

no, we're contrasting The Book with your opinions

that's really something, coming from the guy that has only gotten one thing right about that book in here the whole time he's been here....the name of it. you have failed at every turn since....

Possibly just a metaphor?

well, maybe not....

when we look at the graphic things marky has told us here that he wants to do to some people, we find that he very much resembles this person that "had the evil spirit".....

the demons ultimately get their prize: another soul in hell

??? if nothing we can do can keep us out of Hell, how is it that demons can do something to get us put BACK into the going to hell list ?

as in we all start off damned to hell, god GIVES a free pass into heaven to a select few, while the rest of us continue on to Hell as our destiny.

so the ONLY ones the demons can look to as prizes are the ones given the free pass by god, they ALREADY OWN everybody else.

so a saved can yet return to his original cursed state ?

that doesn't seem to add up properly.



{I am NOT reading or responding to any page with that christian eyeball mutilation video. THAT is obscene. :screwyou: }

satan and his angels are the agents of deception that keep many people locked up in fortresses of error

way to completely sidestep his post....now, how about you actually reply to what it said, and take into account what it said in the process? He brings up a very good point

satan and his angels are the agents of deception that keep many people locked up in fortresses of error

astonishingly, you left out the role of GOD in the teaching of mankind.

'satan and his angels are GODS agents of GODS deception that keep many people locked up in GODS fortresses of GODS error for the glory of god.'

now, what is the POINT of crafting fortresses of error for folks who are IRREDEEMABLY damned regardless of their fortress status ?


both of you are on the same deceived team...of course you think that

implying that there was some error in my post, without actually telling us WHAT THE ERROR IS .

how... Godlike of you.

:bowdown: :screwyou:

God allows Satan to do what he does, but God is not the source of deception any more than God is to blame for murders committed by Charles Manson

so saddam was unjustly executed because he just allowed his murder squads free reign ?

gods glory is served by satan, and all of the demons that GOD CREATED serve gods glory.

god is Lord of the lord of lies.

:bowdown: :screwyou:

both of you are on the same deceived team...of course you think that

you're a real idiot, ya know that??

1--The "few" are chosen and that choice is known to God BEFORE THEY ARE EVEN CREATED--you yourself have repeatedly told us this and the Bible backs that up, right?

2--so, by default, those who are not chosen, the ones that God will never allow to enter heaven, that choise is ALSO made before they are created, is it not?

3--which brings me to the point you tried to sidestep--if that choice is already made, and Fred is destined for Hell no matter what he tries to do, then honegod's question is a very valid one, and if you knew as much as you claimed to, you would have a real answer for it.

So, let's ask it again:

if nothing we can do can keep us out of Hell, how is it that demons can do something to get us put BACK into the going to hell list ?

Incidentally, let's take this a bit further.

God allows Satan to do what he does, but God is not the source of deception any more than God is to blame for murders committed by Charles Manson...ridiculous assertion by warped minds

1---who created Satan?

2--Not only that, but who created Satan, with the knowledge beforehand what Satan would do?

3--without evil, Satan would not have been able to do anything--who created that evil?

So, what we have here is God, who created all things, including sin, evil, and satan....

Then He created man....

with that, He created man's unavoidable human nature to sin....

Some people, He created to specifically enter heaven. Others, he creatd specifically to cast into hell.

Do you agree on all of those so far?? Because form your posts, we all know that you do....

NOW, how do the demons pull a soul away from God IF GOD MADE THAT SOUL KNOWING BEFORE IT'S CREATION THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE LOST? If that soul was already destined to be lost, then THE DEMONS DID NOTHING. The soul was already going there! How about a little common sense, chief?

If you have something that you know you will have to give to someone, it is inaccurate to say that they stole it from you. This is the same thing.

Let's try something--how about you go right now and drain all the oil out of your FD. That's right, just drain it all out. Dont put any new oil in, either--leave it dry. THEN, let me have the keys.....and when the engine blows, would it be MY fault? Or would the engine have blown anyways if you drove it like that instead of me? OF COURSE it would have blown anyways--because the conditions were already there for it to happen. No matter who drove that car, the motor would pop. This is just like that--no matter what any demon would or would not do, if that soul is not pre-chosen, then it is going to hell no matter what!

you're a real idiot, ya know that??

1--The "few" are chosen and that choice is known to God BEFORE THEY ARE EVEN CREATED--you yourself have repeatedly told us this and the Bible backs that up, right?

2--so, by default, those who are not chosen, the ones that God will never allow to enter heaven, that choise is ALSO made before they are created, is it not?

3--which brings me to the point you tried to sidestep--if that choice is already made, and Fred is destined for Hell no matter what he tries to do, then honegod's question is a very valid one, and if you knew as much as you claimed to, you would have a real answer for it.

So, let's ask it again:



Incidentally, let's take this a bit further.



1---who created Satan?

2--Not only that, but who created Satan, with the knowledge beforehand what Satan would do?

3--without evil, Satan would not have been able to do anything--who created that evil?

So, what we have here is God, who created all things, including sin, evil, and satan....

Then He created man....

with that, He created man's unavoidable human nature to sin....

Some people, He created to specifically enter heaven. Others, he creatd specifically to cast into hell.

Do you agree on all of those so far?? Because form your posts, we all know that you do....

NOW, how do the demons pull a soul away from God IF GOD MADE THAT SOUL KNOWING BEFORE IT'S CREATION THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE LOST? If that soul was already destined to be lost, then THE DEMONS DID NOTHING. The soul was already going there! How about a little common sense, chief?

If you have something that you know you will have to give to someone, it is inaccurate to say that they stole it from you. This is the same thing.

Let's try something--how about you go right now and drain all the oil out of your FD. That's right, just drain it all out. Dont put any new oil in, either--leave it dry. THEN, let me have the keys.....and when the engine blows, would it be MY fault? Or would the engine have blown anyways if you drove it like that instead of me? OF COURSE it would have blown anyways--because the conditions were already there for it to happen. No matter who drove that car, the motor would pop. This is just like that--no matter what any demon would or would not do, if that soul is not pre-chosen, then it is going to hell no matter what!

Excellent post. I hope that it receives an honest answer.

to simple minds, everything is simple

Romans 3 is a strong rebuke of twisted philosophy that balmes God for everything

But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.

key point: their condemnation is deserved

God elects, God predestines, but human also willfully choose to rebel....there is a synergy here that defies human comprehension and is highly complex

don't try to fully understand it, you can't

right.....it "defies human comprehension", so I cant understand it, yet you somehow think you can. I suppose you arent human then....

you yourself just answered what I said--"God predestines".....what man can change God's will? What man can change God's plan?? NOT ONE. Therefore, if it is predestined by God, then NO MAN CAN CHANGE HIS FATE THAT GOD HAS PREDESTINED. That is not by any definition free will

Stop trying to have it both ways--either it is predestined, which the Bible even says it is, or it is not. You cannot play both sides of this card legitimately. That's a fact.

I posed a sincere, serious point to you, and the best you can do is contradict yourself and say "you cannot understand it". youre gonna hafta do better than that

key point: their condemnation is deserved

wrong

key point--their condemnation is decided before they are even in existence. Before they commit one sin, the creator knows that He will condemn them. PREDESTINES, remember???

What do you think, are they real?

Have you or a friend ever encountered what you believe to be a demon (in the flesh or out of the flesh, or even in dreams)

Many religions have different approaches to demons and demonic activity.

I personally, a few friends of mine, and even non-Christian friends have run into demons in various forms.

How about you?

Share your stories and personal experiences, include as much detail as possible.

I encountered a demon on internet forums. His tactic was quite effective. The demon was the most pompous asshole, self-righteous "christian" ever. He pretended to be the ultra Christian but did absolutely everything he could to make people be disgusted by religion and hate it. This demons scheme was pretty effective.

correction, you hate the Truth and always have...I'm just your latest convenient excuse for evil

get outta here
I neither have nor need an excuse for evil... but I do recognize false persons... that are demons.

God elects, God predestines, but humans also willfully choose to rebel....there is a synergy here that defies human comprehension and is highly complex

so if there is nothing a man can do to achieve forgiveness,

how can a man achieve forgiveness by rejecting the demons ?

as in a man LOSES forgiveness by accepting the demons, so the inverse must be true.

but it isn't, so that none may boast.

so what DO the demons do other than entertainingly torment the Cursed ?

tempt the Forgiven, so that y'all can bravely resist ?

God elects, God predestines, but humans also willfully choose to rebel....there is a synergy here that defies human comprehension and is highly complex


i agree completely.

this logic (or lack of) holds true even if you take it out of a religious context. quantum mechanics ftw.

heisenberg uncertainty = choice.
2 dimensional time axis = fate.

one of my fav articles on the subject:
http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/dice.html

I don't claim to understand it...never said I did

the mystery of human will and God's election has puzzled scholars for ages...can anyone claim to have the "silver bullet", one line answer? this is hardly a simple issue

if we were all robots, the many injunctions of the epsitles, such as "make every effort to..." would be unnecessay, and, by such false thinking, since Christ Himself was a robot, why did He need to learn obedience by the things he suffered? in fact, why did He need to be tempted?

it's just not that simple....Romans 1 is a great study: people sin, and with continual hard hearted rebellion, God "gives them up", even though God in His foreknowledge knows who will ultimately be lost


you dont claim to understand it....yet we all have seen you go on at length forever now about how only the chosen will be able to "see"....try again.

Also, your "romans 1" doesnt fly either, because ALL men sin, even those who are "chosen". So, in other words, it is not the sin that blocks admission into heaven. It is something else. And you have no way around this--GOD and GOD ALONE chose which group each of us was going to be a part of before we took our first breath. The bible says it. You agreed upon it. So why are you still dancing around the point without actually getting to it??

FACTS--

1--God predestines each of us as to whether or not we will be among the chosen ones.

2--No man or woman that is now, or ever was, alive on this rock has had the ability to change God's plan, will, or mind.

3--Whatever qualities or faults each of us has is PRECISELY how God made us.

Using these points, and the bible backs them all up nicely, it is easily seen that a man, let's call him Fred, cannot change God's mind. God chose Fred to burn....and God made Fred with all the faults he possesses....so, Fred HAS NO OPPPORTUNITY TO REACH HEAVEN NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES, SINCE GOD'S PLAN IS PREDESTINED AND FINAL, UNCHANGEABLE BY ANY HUMAN EFFORT.

This is backed by the bible more than enough. And because of this concept, the very premise of demons stealing a soul from God has to be false. There is no way around this--again, you cannot have it both ways. Either our lives are predestined, which the Bible clearly shows they are, or they are not, in which case we have free will to choose.....PICK ONE, ONLY ONE, and stick with it. You cannot play both sides of the coin as you see fit--that is just plain dishonest.

2--No man or woman that is now, or ever was, alive on this rock has had the ability to change God's plan, will, or mind.

except moses slapped god down a couple of times when god got angry and was going to murder everybody again.

except moses slapped god down a couple of times when god got angry and was going to murder everybody again.

yes, but since God knew Moses was 'predestined' to do that before He created Moses, there was no surprise there for Him, nor was it a change in His plans. If you create a man and plan out how he will be his whole life, then you will by default know exactly what he will do and when he will do it.

For all we know, God could have put Moses there as a sort of post-it note, since He knew He was going to get that angry at that time, and Moses was His reminder that He should not wipe out man just then....like I said, you cannot have it both ways. If God is omnipotent and all-knowing, then He IS ALL KNOWING. Meaning, He knows all that you will do. Before you do it. Predestined. No way for a man to change that. If God created me to be a plumber, I cannot change His plan and become a pastry chef. In the same manner, if you are predestined for hell, there is absolutely no chance for you to go to heaven instead.

that is a defeatist atitude

we don't know who the Elect are, so there is no point worrying about it

you certainly claim to know who in here is "demonic" all the time, and who is "a real christian"...so if WE dont know, why do you think you do?

By the way, you really need to think this one through--if God puts you on the list for hell before you are even born, dont you think HE would know whether or not you will spend your life trying? Do you REALLY think that He will put a person to the lake of fire if that person genuinely believes in their heart and accepts Christ as his savior? OF COURSE NOT. So, what reason do any people that you, a supposed representative of God, have to try anything if you have already branded them hell-bound?? Perhaps this would be a good time for you to evaluate the way you talk to people and the things you say to them, as far as what your actions mean to the Kingdom....because your methods actually TURN PEOPLE AWAY.

there is a difference between saying someone is on the road to hell vs. already there

we all fall short in many ways, but some people revel in it...you seem to be one of those

There is also a difference between someone claiming to be on the right path and someone who actually is....in other words, you are not the one to make any determination about where anyone is going. Shouldnt you be more concerned with yourself, since you claim to be following God? What ever happened to all that humility that is mentioned all over the place in the bible? hmmm...

are you aware the oft-parroted phrase "accept Christ" is nowhere found in scripture? the only time anything close to that phrase is used is Romans 15, in reference to Christ accepting us

Show me where I said that the phrase is written in the bible....you have no point. Truth--unless you accept that Christ died for your sins, and follow what Christ commanded, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE ITSELF, you cannot find heaven. FACT.....wanna see for yourself?

JOHN 14:6-7

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

JOHN 14:15-17

15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth.

Right there, Jesus says "If you obey all my commands, IF YOU ACCEPT ME AS YOUR SAVIOR, I will ask my father to bring you to heaven....." Think about it--who could truly accept Jesus without obeying his commands? Cant be done. hey, Jesus said it, dont blame me....

JOHN 14:23-24

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

In other words--

1--accept Jesus as your savior
2--obey His commands
3--In turn, He will love you
4--In turn, His father will love you
5--God will welcome you to the Kingdom.

I could do this all day long, so why make things up as you go, marky? The bible, the thing that is supposedly your one source for doctrine, is not agreeing with your take more and more these days....

Christ commands us to follow Him, it's a not a one time, say-this-prayer, or do-this-little-deal event that so many like to think it is http://www.gty.org/product.php?productcode=451147

Did I say it was a one-time thing?? What is your problem?

I simply said:

if that person genuinely believes in their heart and accepts Christ as his savior?

NEWS FLASH--if one truly believed in his heart that Jesus was his lord and savior, DONT YOU THINK HE WOULD OBEY?? duhhh......Or, do you think that all Christians are just like you??? You know, the kind that proclaim Jesus to be the real deal, only to disobey at will, and then try to cover their six with scriptures taken out of context? Sorry, charlie, but not all who claim to be christian are that fake

that sounds like something I was taught in Sunday school in 4th grade, but it is theologically weak, to say the least

again, it doesn't depend on man's desire or effort (Romans 9)...you always present a man centered view of the gospel, which is why I'm convinced you're outside the faith

I never said it was based on effort, but seriously, try using a little common sense here....if one has the faith for real in God, then that person WILL find it in their heart to do the deeds, no? Works alone are worthless, I never disputed that or said otherwise, so what is your malfunction?? But at the same time, faith without deeds is dead, is it not?

You need to get over your issue with not liking me, just because you dont like someone that doesnt mean that you automatically have some right to butcher everything they say in a lame-ass attempt to try to make yourself look better. This is the third time in a row in this one thread that you are putting words in my mouth or misconstruing what I posted--if you cant be decent enough to just read what I wrote and stop throwing your own meaning into my words, then dont read my posts, and move on with life.

same old carnal, obnoxious, antagonistic, abrasive stuff from you

you're outside....why are you even here

me, abrasive?? Thats rich coming from the guy that wishes graphic suffering and death on people, chief. You really need to grow up.

As for why I am here, who in the world made you the authority? You certainly have no place to talk, since you even manage to get repeatedly banned from the forum that doesnt usually ban anyone....especially when the rules have been this relaxed as they have been recently, and you STILL find a way to get banned....but why am I here? gee, why dont you figure out why YOU Are here?? After all, this place is just a waste of your godly time, remember??

You are a fraud, marky. It's that simple. God doesnt bring those to heaven that butcher the bible for their own glory and ego. Unfortunately, by the time you learn that message, it will probably be too late.

it's all about living by the Spirit, continual submission of your will...apart from Me you can do nothing

if thats the case then you fail in spades....since you are always too busy dealing with your oversized ego to submit even to the rebukes of a trusted and respected fellow christian....that being the case, dont think for even a second that anyone will believe that marky has submitted to God's will for anything. Your actions are so far off from your claimed doctrine that even those who traditionally defend you unflinchingly are trying to tell you that you are screwing up, and even then you are so busy with your own ego that you choose to blow them off....

I gave up on you long ago, jon

Well, news flash, you dont have that authority, so again, stop looking for glory for your personal ego and start living the life you claim to represent--either that, or stop claiming to represent it. By no means does that mean you should be perfect, but it DOES require you to put forth effort on something other than bolstering your already-over-inflated sense of pride...

I still think demons are not real....

why ?

well, I dropped a screw last night and DIDN'T go after it immediently, and it was EXACTLY WHERE i HEARD IT FALL TO when I went to pick it up later.

YZF,

Do you follow "Reformed Baptist" teaching?

not sure what that refers to, care to elaborate?


Reformed Baptists are both Baptists and Calvinists, and typically adhere to the 1644 or 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith. They don't normally advocate for infant baptism.

The revelatory gifts of the Holy Spirit (Apostles, prophets, miracle-workers, tongues-speakers) are considered by most Reformed Baptists to have ceased, and revivals are considered exceptional measures sovereignly bestowed by God, not to be searched as a common policy. Thus a rejection of revivalism in general and Pentecostalism specifically. However, there are some Baptists who are self-confessedly Calvinist but who reject cessationism.

I myself haven't quite figured out infant baptism. I didn't baptize my son, but at the time I wasn't trying to pay attention to God. I do reject cessationism.

baptism as commanded in the N.T. is complete submersion of an adult or young adult who makes a confession of faith, but it is only a sign, and has nothing to do (necessarily) with the filling of the Spirit...infant baptism is not Biblical, but I don't see tha harm in it, either

baptism is a simulation of the Flood, you are submerged and god lets you come back out to serve him properly.

since an infant cannot know about the Flood baptising one would have as much meaning as putting the mark of the beast on the infants forhead.

let everything be done decently and in order....that sure doesn't decribe the ecstatic, out-of-control gyrations of some Pentecostal churches

it also doesnt describe a person who is 39 years old, supposed to be a grown adult, but so fully of hate that he wants people dead over an internet forum, and still running around trying to threaten everyone over teh intarweb like a third grade bully looking for lunch money on the playground. But hey, maybe if you keep acting like you dont do those things, so will God, right??? Good luck with that one....

baptism is a simulation of the Flood, you are submerged and god lets you come back out to serve him properly.

since an infant cannot know about the Flood baptising one would have as much meaning as putting the mark of the beast on the infants forhead.
This made me think.
The water is used as a symbol for 'cleasing our soul'. therefore baptism is useless. Yes, it is useless. The procedure is no different than becoming a shellback in the Navy. (Of course, I dont think anyone here ever served our country to understand that statement.)

Case and point: I was baptised twice.
Catholic
Assembly of God

The procedure is no different than becoming a shellback in the Navy. (Of course, I dont think anyone here ever served our country to understand that statement.)

MM2SS, USS Puffer SSN652, homeport Pearl Harbor, WESTPAC '77. :peace:

lol now that is awesome! You were in the REAL Navy, brother :)
Eisenhower CVN69 (the mighty IKE! in Norfolk) Airdale for the S3 Vikings, based CecilField, FL. MED '87.

Folks, Honegod is a Nuke!

lol now that is awesome! You were in the REAL Navy, brother :)
Eisenhower CVN69 (the mighty IKE! in Norfolk) Airdale for the S3 Vikings, based CecilField, FL. MED '87.

Folks, Honegod is a Nuke!

bah, that just means his sausage glows in the dark now....:bigthumb:

MR1, Team 2, Little Creek, VA, also hopped a ride on the America, Med/Adriatic/Red Sea cruise 1993. My old man was at Cecil Field back in the late 60s, he was an aviation machinist's mate in a fighter squadron, F-8 Crusaders.

Never
Again
Volunteer
Yourself

bravo zulu, guys....

heh, right now I am trying to figure out how to equip .5 acre with solar mirrors to heat up 1000 gallons of water to heat the Ancestorial Mansion.

for cheap, so tracking mirrors are out.

I am looking for a static configuration that won't care where the sun is on its arc but will always reflect the radiation to the same spot.

something like a field of mirrors that shine on a line of mirrors that each are aimed at the collector/boiler.

the line of mirrors would need to follow the track of the field mirrors reflection of the sun as it traverses the sky.

the goal is to way overkill the collection and pump a LOT of energy into the water whenever the sun is out so that I can draw the heat out at a much slower rate that balances the heat loss of the Ancestorial Mansion.

in the summertime I could put a mirror over the boiler and reflect the energy back into space, my bit for "global warming".

bah, that just means his sausage glows in the dark now....:bigthumb:

and here I thought my ability to get around the house without needing nightlights was because of my catlike ninja skillz.

MR1,

my local Reserve center had no need for a MM2, SS or otherwise, so I took a rate drop to nondesignated FN when I joined the Reserve.
I was able to get up to MR3 before budget cuts closed the center and I 'retired'/quit the reserves.

BITE ME TOOLS!

BITE ME TOOLS!

aarrr matey, here I was thinkin' I was bein' all special by way of having a glow in the dark tool, and ye've clearly bested me by sporting more than one.

{just watched 'pirates of the carribian II ' for the third time in two days}

Even Sky was a squid? ut-oh, watch out forum. A brotherhood has formed up! Nothing good ever came out of something when three sailors hung out.

lol we'll make you a believer, Mr Osborne. You have good people in this world who will commit their lives for an idea, and then you have sailors. The worst set of tools on Earth!

heh, right now I am trying to figure out how to equip .5 acre with solar mirrors to heat up 1000 gallons of water to heat the Ancestorial Mansion.

I studied solar/piping at one time. I suppose the south roof is out of the question? I think it looks like shit also. I thought I saw a solution during my travels. Give me the day. I'll try and find it.

I suppose the south roof is out of the question?

yup, the Ancestorial Mansion is on the south western corner of the property, there's just enough room for the two big trees with the zillions of leafs that shade the house in the summer.

which lets me put the gathering mirrors north of the house facing south to the concentrating/stabilising mirrors mounted on the north face of the Mansion.

and here I thought my ability to get around the house without needing nightlights was because of my catlike ninja skillz.



my local Reserve center had no need for a MM2, SS or otherwise, so I took a rate drop to nondesignated FN when I joined the Reserve.
I was able to get up to MR3 before budget cuts closed the center and I 'retired'/quit the reserves.

I recently learned that the Navy has gotten rid of the MR rate, and others. They combined all the machinist rates into one. Funny thing there, I did my 10 weeks of A school in San Diego, and that was the last time I touched anything related to the rate. But the rate was one that was directly accpeted for BUD/S training, so it served its purpose.

This made me think.
The water is used as a symbol for 'cleasing our soul'. therefore baptism is useless. Yes, it is useless. The procedure is no different than becoming a shellback in the Navy. (Of course, I dont think anyone here ever served our country to understand that statement.)

Case and point: I was baptised twice.
Catholic
Assembly of God

Are you a Christian?

:p

Are you a Christian?
LOL

Are you a Christian?

Yeah, I was 'born again' at one time. Works well, huh?

yup, the Ancestorial Mansion is on the south western corner of the property, there's just enough room for the two big trees with the zillions of leafs that shade the house in the summer.

which lets me put the gathering mirrors north of the house facing south to the concentrating/stabilising mirrors mounted on the north face of the Mansion.

Bummer.
Guy at work told me (Arizona), instead of mirror, he has a copper sheet that serves as the collector, painted with some black paint. Possibility an absorbent paint if there is such a beast. The copper tube that runs through the enclosed collector is insulated, and to aid against the cold weather, a glass lid is laid as the barrier to allow just the UV to pass through.

He told me how his system worked but it's decade old technology. I told him about your 1000 gallon situation. It made us think. Good luck.

fly away

Didn't need any help I take it. You do this shit for a living?

I guess what you want are the copper aluminum absorber collector. Cheap and yes, they are painted black. For domestic heating, this is what the industry suggests.

http://www.sunraysolar.com/faq.php
Below from the above website:

Q. Are black chrome collectors more efficient than black painted collectors absorber plates?

A. For medium temperature collectors used in domestic water heating systems, black chrome-coated absorbers are not necessary. Black chrome can be used only if one is trying to generate steam. For the selective surface to be effective the absorber plate must be sealed in a vacuum collector housing (like a light bulb) otherwise the small increase in efficiency at the higher temperature range dose not justify the extra cost. In time, the black coating on some black chrome absorbers dissipate leaving the absorber with a shiny reflective surface and this is the exact opposite of what the absorber plate is design to do. A durable black baked paint over treated surface is our choice.

Q. What are the cost and efficiency differences between Sun Ray (all copper) Collectors and (copper aluminum) collectors?

A. The costs of all copper absorber solar collectors are about 20 % to 30% higher than the copper aluminum absorber collector. The copper aluminum collectors are only about 2% to 3 % less efficient. All one has to do is slightly increase the total collector’s surface area.

fly away

sorry, that was the 6 year old :D

the problem here is limited sunlight, clouds and rain sort of thing.

in arizona { been there, Nice ! } a simple absorbtion panel is fine because the sun almost always shines every day all day long.

here we might get 1/3 of the available sunshine because of the clouds, so I see the need to increase the energy collection surface area.

mirrors are way cheaper than collectors.

so if I have the exact same collector as your friend, to get the same energy from it as your friend, I would need at least 3 mirrors to multiply the ammount of light going into it 3 times.

bump that to 30 mirrors and I would get the same energy input into the 1000 gallons in ONE day as your friend would in a week.

{note that having the insulated tank of hot water INSIDE the house insulation would mean that all the heat lost from the water through the tank insulation would act as house heat too :D }


so the collector is easy, the stationary mirrors are easy, the complicated bit is the concentrating/stabilising mirror assembly which I am sure will be easy too, once I get it figured out.

then I can harness those demons of sunlight to warm my toes BEFORE schedual.

[edit; your post directly above wasn't THERE when I started composing this.}

um, this apparant wild divergence from the post topic really IS connected directly to the question of the existance of demons, and, yes, Maxwells demon would be too easy ;)

the inspiration for the mirrors business is a story about a greek port city that repelled an invading fleet of wooden ships by stationing a couple hundred men with polished shields in the hills surrounding the harbor who all shined the reflection of the sun at one ship at a time, causing it to burst into flame, and then aim at the next ship.

not having a couple hundred greeks handy complicates the focussing business.

And none of you are the same.

Christian is an ill defined term, no?

all individuals...but in the faith...everyone else here is on the outside


outside the golden wall that surrounds the Holy City, protecting it from the lake of fire that completely surrounds the wall and the assults of the damned who are disgruntled at being there.


:bowdown: :screwyou:

Yeah, I was 'born again' at one time. Works well, huh?


OK. I am a little confused. Can you recall why you were baptized a second time? This will explain why you were 'born again' at one time.

no, he isn't

it's you, me, and tofuball

I thought there was at least another one.




Weekly Word Pictures reminder--Watch Word Pictures from CrossTV.com on Thursday at 8pm on the Sky Angel One network.

And none of you are the same.

Christian is an ill defined term, no?

And yet at the same time, I think we all would agree, that somehow, individually, our conscience's have convicted us that there is a God and he requires from us a standard of moral behavior that is perfect as reflected in the 10 commandments. We also agree that there is no possibility of meeting these requirements on our own effort. And still the moral law is absolutely perfect. Think of just a couple aspects, how beautiful is the concept of fidelity in marriage contrasted with the ugliness of adultery and it's consequences. Especially when there are children in the family. Who can say the moral law is not perfect? Is there a moron here who thinks murder is good and is willing to justify it? Secondly, our conscience's convict us that man will face a day of judgement when our every action and thought will be known and judged by the moral law and absolutely no one will be found innocent. Thirdly, the God of this moral law, has provided a way for us to be freed from this judgement by the sacrifice of a second Adam. This was a man concieved without the original sin, who also, while tempted like everyone else, lived his life without sin.

You're facing the judge. You've just been found guilty. The penalty is greater than you could ever possibly pay. Jesus is standing there and asking you 'Do you want me to pay your fine?'.

Does your conscience convict you that there is truth in what I'm saying? If so, there's still some hope for you. If not, you may live to be 80, regardless, you will definitely die at some point and either I'm right and you pay the penalty for an eternity or I'm wrong and you cease to exist.

"the same"?

all individuals...but in the faith...everyone else here is on the outside

man, thats rich....

You have clearly shown that YOUR version of "the faith" is nothing like anyone else's here. Others "in the faith" rebuke you all the time, even publicly, and your claimed faith requires you to pay attention to that--but NOT MARKY....you just fire off another excuse and keep on keepin on....your values in respect to compassion are found nowhere in the Bible, and others "in the faith" have pointed that out to you, with no success in getting you to wake up. Sure, you guys have some common beliefs, but the way you treat other people is a joke compared to others "in the faith". Why dont we see tofu demanding the death of "those on the outside"?? Because you have officially flipped your melon, thats why.

False prophet. Fraud. Phony. Fake. Imposter.

And yet at the same time, I think we all would agree, that somehow, individually, our conscience's have convicted us that there is a God and he requires from us a standard of moral behavior that is perfect as reflected in the 10 commandments. We also agree that there is no possibility of meeting these requirements on our own effort. And still the moral law is absolutely perfect.

and yet, at the same time, two of you seem convinced that you should act in a manner consistent with what the bible instructs. One of the "three amigoes" here, however, acts in ways so disgusting that there is no way it could come from the same God that teaches you and tofu to act the way you do.....regardless of that, he still acts that way and whats worse, he actually tries to use the bible to justify it. On some key points, his version is night-and-day different than yours. On top of that, while no one can ever attain the example set forth, the bible instructs people "in the faith" to actually work on that....when he starts doing so, let me know.

Is there a moron here who thinks murder is good and is willing to justify it?

If you need a refresher, just say the word, and I will post a collection of marky quotes that are all about the glory of violent action towards some of us "outside the faith"....all justified, according to marky, by the bible.

you ask what moron thinks murder is good? I ask you, what moron delights in the suffering of people he doesnt like, to the point that marky does? The guy found out that I had cancer, and suddenly every post was "cancer is eating your body, waiting to take your life.....it will be soon" What kind of moron can find so much joy in that? Jesus said "love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you"....he DIDNT say "pray for them all to die just because you argue with them over the internet, and rejoice in their suffering..."

And before you say "we all make mistakes", this is not merely a mistake, it is a clear doctrinal error that this fruit loop actually believes in every day of his life. And when confronted by tofu on it, another excuse pops out....Error in doctrine would put him in the same boat as anyone else "on the outside", because God has set forth ONE proper doctrine, and ONLY ONE. Follow anything but that, and it's the eternal weenie roast for you....

Does your conscience convict you that there is truth in what I'm saying? If so, there's still some hope for you. If not, you may live to be 80, regardless, you will definitely die at some point and either I'm right and you pay the penalty for an eternity or I'm wrong and you cease to exist.

yes, there is truth in what YOU are saying. There just isnt truth in marky's doctrinal error version. If someone is so quick and steadfast to believe something in his doctrine that is so obviously against the bible, why would anyone follow the rest of what he says because of him? If you had a teacher that taught some correct material and the rest was false, would you follow that teacher? Or wouldnt it be worth looking for one that teaches the actual correct doctrine? We only get one shot at this life, seems like a rather huge gamble to take, dont you think? If he is wrong about something that is pure common sense, what else could he be wrong about?

If you need a refresher, just say the word, and I will post a collection of marky quotes that are all about the glory of violent action towards some of us "outside the faith"....all justified, according to marky, by the bible.

Didn't he renounce this awhile ago? Maybe I'm wrong, I thought he did. If he did, you need to come up with some fresh material. This "Marky's a bad person for encouraging my Cancer" bit is getting stale. Now I don't mean this to offend. And I agree it's inexcusable for a follower of the King of the Universe to make such a remark. Equally, I have yet to find a verse encouraging this sort of thing in my Basic Information Before Leaving Earth manual.

On the other hand, it's time for you to move on. I think you have the potential to discuss spiritual topics with logic and intelligence and I'd rather see you go down that path.

OK. I am a little confused. Can you recall why you were baptized a second time? This will explain why you were 'born again' at one time.

Simple. Both churches have two different policies to enter christ's kingdom.

no, he isn't

it's you, me, and tofuball

I am a christain. i went through the motions to become one. Sure, it is a grave sin that needs to be forgiven to disbelieve god. But I am a xtain never the less. No different than your sins that needs to be forgiven. No matter the sin, everyone comes short to the kingdom of god.

I now stand ready for your puppet bible verses that points to oblivion, YZF. You ARE a false prophet.

happy hump day? New one. That girl giving you gay talk?

damn it. you calling me old?

Didn't he renounce this awhile ago? Maybe I'm wrong, I thought he did. If he did, you need to come up with some fresh material. This "Marky's a bad person for encouraging my Cancer" bit is getting stale. Now I don't mean this to offend. And I agree it's inexcusable for a follower of the King of the Universe to make such a remark. Equally, I have yet to find a verse encouraging this sort of thing in my Basic Information Before Leaving Earth manual.

On the other hand, it's time for you to move on. I think you have the potential to discuss spiritual topics with logic and intelligence and I'd rather see you go down that path.

If you steal your neighbor's chickens, and then you apologize to him, what is that apology worth if you turn around the following week and steal them again? Therein lies the answer to your question. First off, he did not renounce anything--he still holds fast to his false doctrine of acceptable prayers for death of his "enemies"....even though Jesus said otherwise in the Gospel, marky would rather ignore that.

I agree--it is stale. But keep this in mind--it doesnt come from me. I am not the guy that still posts that crap--I only talk abotu how disgusting it is that someone actually calls himself a christian only to act like that. If it is stale to you, perhaps you should address it with the person that gets visibly excited at the prospect of me dying from cancer. Like you said, it is inexcuseable. Telling me to move on is pointless, because it didnt start with me, and it doesnt continue because of me. Move on, it needs to, so talk to the guy that continues to post it. but then again, he will just ignore you anyways and come up with an excuse or three like he always does.

You say he renounced it some time ago, yet just a couple weeks back, he was still talking about how he sincerely hopes that I die soon from cancer. Then there are the PM's I get from him. So, again, renouncing it is meaningless if you continue the act, isnt it? here's a PM he sent me at the end of December:

you're a piece of shit

die of cancer

That new enough for you? Fresh, certainly after any "renouncing" would have taken place....since then, he has not even been here half the time because of getting banned, so I imagine he'll catch back up for that absence in short order.

but in the interest of fairness, I dont even need to talk about the cancer bit right now--there are plenty of other examples of marky spewing hate like no one else. Make no mistake about it--no one who claims to follow God can be telling the truth about it when they possess this much hate and this much of a need for revenge to serve their ego. While we all sin, this is not just an example of sin. It is false doctrine all over the place. And marky himself repeatedly tells what God does to those who practice ANY false doctrine....

*insert jonnie rant here*

which you only typed because you searched my screen name and saw what thread I was looking at. And to think, you still run around claiming that youre the victim, when you do this much to stir shit up all the time....grow up

lol

I'm just too good

more like too pathetic

you, the sad little victim, looking for the chance to post crap like that to me....good doesnt describe it, more like pitiful, marky. Go whine to bx again how I've been "churning" things up, and then mention that you do this kind of shit yourself

I am a christain. i went through the motions to become one. Sure, it is a grave sin that needs to be forgiven to disbelieve god. But I am a xtain never the less. No different than your sins that needs to be forgiven. No matter the sin, everyone comes short to the kingdom of god.

I now stand ready for your puppet bible verses that points to oblivion, YZF. You ARE a false prophet.

What were the motions? Your baptism did not make you a Christian. Understand that I am not trying to give you a hard time. I want you to see if you're really a Christian. Let's have a look at this in another way. You say you are a Christian, why are you a Christian?

why are you a Christian?
simple. I agree with jesus's vison of a better world of everyone co-exsisting. Same vison of Dr Luther King, whom was killed as well.

simple. I agree with jesus's vison of a better world of everyone co-exsisting. Same vison of Dr Luther King, whom was killed as well.

I hate to break this to you, seriously, but that was not at all the message that Jesus brought. His message was quite different, in fact. He did not have the same vision of Martin Luther King. King wanted racial equality. Jesus paid no attention to race. King wanted a better life in this world, Jesus came and died so that we could have a chance to have eternal life once we left this world.

lol

I'm just too full of myself and egotistical

fixed

Equality to everyone. Everyone means all races. Sure, Jesus has a beef with Jewish laws, but his message was quite clear: He wanted everyone to get along. Same with King.

Both Jesus and King died and because of their vision, a better world came forward. More so with jesus. He had a head start.

Christ is alive, and is God....the Judge of all Men

it's highly questionable whether MLK is even in the kingdom....he was a known womanizer

correct. Like our love ones whom died, we keep Jesus and god alive in our hearts.

naw I think I stay. nice to see that you couldnt battle my simple truth.

Christ is alive, and is God....the Judge of all Men

it's highly questionable whether MLK is even in the kingdom....he was a known womanizer

Again with your ego that you know...

Are you God YZF? Do you know who is and who isn't in heaven. As you even state yourself, it is Christ's job to judge.
You don't and can't know this, and to make comments like this makes you look even more stupid.




http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/95whitepep/retard.jpg

If you don't like MLK, don't take monday off then.

lol
christ yzf! and keep yer fingers away from the sockets!

simple. I agree with jesus's vison of a better world of everyone co-exsisting. Same vison of Dr Luther King, whom was killed as well.

This would only be a fraction of what Jesus said. It is very important and I think your point is summed up here:

Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

You could also point out that in his prayer example he said: "Thy kingdom come thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." and you would be correct. God wants everyone to love each other.

But the focal point of his message was the gospel (good news). If you are a follower of Christ then you should know that he said this:

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command."

If you are a follower of Christ then you will obey everything that he commands. Do you adhere to some but not all of his teaching? You may think that I am being harsh to you, I am not, I want you check yourself. Do you still claim that you are a Christian?

good post

but Christ did say "salvation is of the Jews", and He recognized the Jews as God's chosen race to receive the scriptures and disseminate the Message

and God isn't finished with the Jews, either...not by a long shot


and while Christ said that, you clearly left out the rest of the message....for example, what about the Gentile woman? Didnt Christ show her the way as well? And how about the great commission? "Go and make disciples of ALL NATIONS"....it clearly was not just for the Jews, marky. Chosen race to receive the scriptures, yes, and THEN, He commanded them to spread the word to all other nations.

whatever

run along, you contribute nothing here

whatever?

How about you swallow some of that mammoth sized pride and admit your error instead? Not a single one of us has any right or business making such statements, and if you really know the bible, you know this. So, why are you always in such a hurry to make these judgments about everyone else all the time when you KNOW it is wrong?

http://www.science.co.il/images/satellite/f/Middle-East-night.jpg

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command."

If you are a follower of Christ then you will obey everything that he commands. Do you adhere to some but not all of his teaching? You may think that I am being harsh to you, I am not, I want you check yourself. Do you still claim that you are a Christian?
Good point.

This is real tricky since i never met jesus. I approach jesus differently than main stream. I view him as just a man. I can only obey him to a certain point. No different than my ex boxing instructor. If you seek his instruction to change your heart, then yes, I believe you should trust him and obey. Definitely not to the point of getting myself hurt or what Peter did, avoid being crucified.

Tofuball!
That pic is freaky! Talk about no civilization in the mid east

just so typical of your tangential, frivolous "arguments"

it began with the Jews...and it ends with them!
Adam and Eve are jews?
so typical of your tangential, frivolous "arguments"

lol ah but of course.













bonehead?

as far as this forum goes, you are worthless

but so are most people who post here...I'm wasting my time

Please leave then if you are so above it. Things would smell much better then the rot you bring to the table..

btw all this is coming from some newly divorced guy living in adultery


We all fall short of the Grace of God, but thanks for the help, so Christian of you! (Casting stones again YZF?)



you're a real winner, man

About time you admit it!

as far as this forum goes, you are worthless

but so are most people who post here...I'm wasting my time
Very well, YZF.

And so is the idea that there is a god. And demons. and so on and so forth.

You also wasted your time once you picked up the habit of misconstruing the bible. Now go forth and mate with your mindless babe and make puppets...

Tofuball!
That pic is freaky! Talk about no civilization in the mid east

As it is written, that Israel shall be a light among the nations (Isa 49:6-7)

As it is written, that Israel shall be a light among the nations (Isa 49:6-7)


Its really cool to see Isreal is the hub of the middle east. No wonder people fight over it.

But also check out the Nile river and the delta....thats really amazing.

For the rest..Mostly desert.

just so typical of your tangential, frivolous "arguments"

it began with the Jews...and it ends with them!

Look, jackass--I provided two very real examples of people other than the Jews being brought into the equation, and in reply all you can do is be a fucking turd burger. THE BIBLE is what says "go and make disciples of all nations", NOT ME, so if you really want to insult the source of thast information, by all means, dont let me stop you, shitferbrains.

It started with the Jews, BUT NOT ONLY THE JEWS WILL BE SAVED you retard. If so, the great commission would never have taken place. Again, this is from the BIBLE, and since you are right now bitching that you have studied this bible for 20 years, perhaps you should shut the fuck up and go read it some more, because you obviously missed some things.

Chosen race to receive the scriptures, yes, and THEN, He commanded them to spread the word to all other nations.

that is a frivolous argument to you?? ITS WHAT THE BIBLE CLEARLY STATES you moron....

as far as this forum goes, you are worthless

but so are most people who post here...I'm wasting my time

no one is blocking you from the exit....if you truly are wasting your time here, then move on to something that glorifies God and isnt such a waste of your time then. Here's a hint--what does the bible say about idle pursuits?

psycho jonnie, shut your big mouth and listen for a second

this was your original statement (p. 12)...and I corrected you on it, because it's flat out WRONG

then you get all defensive and launch into a tangential discussion about how salvation is for Gentiles as well as Jews :rolleyes:

who do you think I am? think you're telling me something new? you barely grasp the most fundamental aspects of the scripture and butcher everything else...you're a bull in a china shop

again, bullshit. Did He or did He NOT say "go and make disciples of ALL NATIONS"??? Is there a passage in your bible that says differently?? Does your book say "only save the Jews in other places?? YOU WERE JUST OWNED BY YOUR OWN DOCTRINE.

What I said is 100% correct--Jesus commanded the faithful to take on the great commission WITH NO REGARD TO RACE WHATSOEVER. If my statement about Jesus and race were wrong, that command would certainly reflect it. But He didnt say anything differently, and you just fucked up. The Jews were God's chosen people, as you yourself said, to receive and disseminate the message....AND THEN THEY WERE COMMANDED TO SPREAD IT TO ALL NATIONS. What part of this are you too fucking retarded to get?? IT comes directly from the Gospel, doesnt it??

You lose, dumbass...owned by your own supposed doctrine....aint that a kick in the nuts??:bigthumb:

EDIT--post up the verses about the Gentile woman....lets see what Jesus did in fact say to this woman from another race....

again, tangential argument

your statement was "Jesus paid no attention to race"

FALSE

admit you are wrong for once in your life, jonnie...you can't cover your tracks with long winded tirades in real life, either

how is that false?? You say that it started with the Jews and will end there--BUT YOU ARE NOT JEWISH.....even if you wont pay attention to the bible verses that I mentioned, can you really ignore that??

Simply saying I am wrong doesnt make it so, especially when the bible backs me on this one. What verses can you post that say I was wrong? Can you show that the bible doesnt say what I told you it does? I didnt think so....

and again, you lose....at your own game....

Matthew 15

Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."

Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

"Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."

Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

READ THE LAST LINE ONCE MORE, STOOPID...

Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour

If Jesus REALLY was only sent for Israel, then this woman NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN HEALED, would she?

You FAIL

QUESTION--what was more important to Jesus, the RACE of the woman, OR HER FAITH?

You clearly stated that he WAS ONLY HERE FOR ISRAEL, while your own example clearly shows Him welcoming this woman, NOT OF ISRAEL, to God....stop tripping on your dick and pay attention

another example of how Jesus did not think in terms of race is found after He was crucified--when the 12 were in Jerusalem, and people had come from all over, speaking in different languages--Jesus was risen, and the Spirit came to the 12.....tongues of flame appeared over their heads and they began speaking in different tongues SO THAT FOREIGNERS COULD UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS BEING SAID.

If Jesus only came for Israel, then why so much effort for those outside of Israel? Hey, dont bitch at me, this is THE BIBLE telling you these things...

have you studied the Bible for 20 years?

I may as well be a college professor addressing a 4th grader here; and if that sounds arrogant, too bad, it's a fact...you don't have a CLUE

lol did I need to? OMG! It takes you 20 years and you STILL haven't figured it out. That tells me a lot about you. :bigthumb: The bible is simple, bonehead.

The problem is obvious. 20 years? None of the ideas you have displayed here was anything you ever owned. You worship sand nigs and became thier tool. I might as well go back in time to hear their stupidity in person

lol did I need to? OMG! It takes you 20 years and you STILL haven't figured it out. That tells me a lot about you. :bigthumb: The bible is simple, bonehead.

The problem is obvious. 20 years? None of the ideas you have displayed here was anything you ever owned. You worship sand nigs and became thier tool. I might as well go back in time to hear their stupidity in person

hey czar, the people that you are saying he worships are not "sand nigs"....that term refers to Arabs, which are most definitely not Israelis.

/sigh

Hi. My name is Elisha. I murdered my master Elijah in the middle of the desert so I can have his power. I just murdered 40 kids and told their parents god did it. And since I am an Israelite, I am not trash.

/sigh

Hi. My name is Elisha. I murdered my master Elijah in the middle of the desert so I can have his power. I just murdered 40 kids and told their parents god did it. And since I am an Israelite, I am not trash.

I dont see how that is relevant, seriously. And I also dont see in the bible that the Jews were allowed to have that mentality without consequences. I was just pointing out an error, nothing more.

I'm sure you've been around the block enough times to notice all races have their trash. To state 'definitely not Israelis' is the error. I'm merely pointing out when certain people need power by exploiting fear, hence the politics of the Bible, they are trash. Of course it so happens to be Israelites who wrote it.

yes, but at the same time, your post would have been the same had you used a slang term for asians in there--meaning, the term you used didnt fit

ah my mistake. Any good names for trashy Israelites?

Marky.....thats my favorite one...

rofl
I like it but Mark is more of a Noun than an adjective too much of a 'no load' to be associated with a crappy race. A better use would be to describe a social disease like Yeast Infection. "yeah, she got the Mark. Notice the discharge from her vagina".

one problem there--Mark has gotten about as close to anyone's vagina as we can get to finding that ditch he was supposedly standing in for the pic....

eternally single, ugly all day, with a massive inferiority complex, no sense of honesty, AND a midget to boot??? People have eaten a bullet for less than that....

lol
And he fucked up his body with roid's, gambling that the reason girls avoid him was the lack of muscles.

I think it is nothing but comical that you call others demons, while you do things far worse than they do.

really?

you're on the road to hell, jon...it's a constant stream of profane garbage out of your mouth

who the hell are you to talk about someone else using profanity?? It's a really easy study to see you being just as profane as anyone here, if not worse with your graphic posting about making people bloody messes, you dipshit...

You're the biggest moron in the history of mankind.

you can't die and be buried soon enough

run along now you fake ass wannabe christian...:bigthumb:

drop dead

the world will go on just fine

youre just pissed because ever since your daddy's been in a wheelchair, it just isnt the same when you "cob" him anymore....:asshole:

perverse stuff like that is your trademark since day 1

you're on the road to hell

isnt any worse than you telling everyone to die soon, dickless....I notice that you had no problem whatsoever whining about my cancer or jimlab's mother, but the instant someone talks about you in the same manner, look--they're going straight to hell!!!!

If this behavior will get me into hell, WHERE WILL THE EXACT SAME BEHAVIOR ON YOUR PART GET YOU?? Here's a hint--it aint Disneyland!!

you like to throw that term around (alot): "everyone"....as if everyone is as psycho as you

hey dipshit---it doesnt matter if you treat one person like that, or a hundred....guilty is guilty, and denial is still denial. Shut the fuck up now you flaming hypocrite, until you can finally face your own fuckups. You lie about the shit you pull, only to cry like a bitch if someone says a similar thing to you. Again, stop trying to sidetrack the point and answer to your fuckups. Its that simple. No matter how many times you try to side-step these points, I will stay on you like the panties stay on evry girl that ever gets around your pathetic pitiful attitude. The choice is yours

I know one thing--your pitiful attempts to change the topic every time you get owned arent accomplishing anything....

you "own" a clapped out FC...and cancer

so now its a clapped out FC?? I thought it was clapped out T-birds??

Youre a dumbass...I just love how you think you are justified in finding joy about cancer, dipshit.....funny thing is that nowhere in the bible does God EVER accept such behavior as appropriate....but hey, keep digging your hole. We'll save ya a seat right between me and dennis!!:bigthumb: