Don't know if I buy it, but here's an interesting read:

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/biblesaur.jpg


"Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds; livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so.
Genesis 1:24

God created animals of all kind directly before he spoke the words that would bring man into existence.

Many people believe that God is the Creator of all things. But very few people know when or why He created the Dinosaurs. Children are often unsure how Dinosaurs fit in, or if they are even mentioned in the Bible at all.

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Are Dinosaurs in the Bible?

Before reading any further, ask yourself why it is that you ask this question.

Is it because you see a conflict between the clear teachings of Scripture, with what those who believe in Evolution teach?

As Christians we must learn to treat Gods word as the source of absolute truth and authority. To answer questions about dinosaurs and Creation, we must start our thinking with the Bible, and from there find the answers. If we trust the Bible as true, and accept theories compatible with scripture we will never have a problem.

Sometimes Christians are tempted to change the Bible to fit their theories. But scientific theories change. God's word remains the same it never changes.

In the book of Job chapter 38:4, God asks Job an important question:

"Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?"

No Scientist was there when the earth was formed or when life began. So any ideas they currently have are only educated guesses.

The only way to learn the truth about how and when life began is to read the testimony of the only one who was there, God himself.

---------------------------

If Dinosaurs were in the Bible, what would you expect it to say about them?

1) That they were created by God to live peacefully with man, and the other animals?
- or -

2) That dinosaurs lived millions of years before man. Existing in a violent death filled world?

The second suggestion is not possible because from a Biblical perspective, Dinosaurs could not have lived and died before man brought sin and death into the world.

This information should be enough for the believer to answer the question on how dinosaurs fit in with Biblical history. However, I will also give specific examples of where dinosaurs can be found in scripture.

---------------------------

How do dinosaurs fit in?

There has been such a lack of study by Christians of the Bible, that many can not answer this very question. Children have been so indoctrinated by Evolutionary teaching that they do not question evolution, they question the Bible.

The Bible clearly states that all land animals and man were both created on the sixth day of creation. Many don't realize that this would also include the dinosaurs.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/day6.jpg

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Children repeatedly told dinosaurs lived millions of years ago

From kindergarten on we are repeatedly told that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. If you are told something repeatedly year after year - you will begin to believe it. Even if it is not true.

The amazing thing is there is no evidence to support the belief that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. In fact, the physical evidence contradicts this very idea (contrary to what you may have been told, dinosaur bones are NOT carbon dated. They are "assigned" an age based on how old someone thinks they are, based upon the geologic column).

---------------------------

A Dinosaur bone is carbon dated

Did you know that dinosaur bones that are carbon dated give dates of only a few thousand years old? - Not millions like evolutionists claim.

There was recently an Allosaurus bone (which is alleged to be 140 million years old) but it was carbon dated at only 16 Thousand years old! Click Here for more information on this and other problems with carbon dating

The evidence that contradicts the Theory of Evolution is not often shown to the general public. Leaving people with the incorrect belief that Evolution is true.

Many Christians trust man's theories more than the Revealed word of God. Others are left in the position of not knowing what to believe.

- So they often compromise what the Bible says. They try to reconcile two completely opposing viewpoints of our origins. They try to add evolution to the Bible, hoping a Biblical compromise will give credibility to the Genesis account.

But, in actuality this compromise causes the Bible to lose credibility not gain it. For if the very first words of the Bible cannot be trusted as true history, then why should anyone hold the remainder of the Bible in any higher regard?

There are several different compromises of the Creation account (these are discussed on my "Gap Theory" page) (http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/gap.html). Each one tries to add Evolution, or millions of years to the Bible.

I do not believe any of these compromises, because none of them are Scientifically possible, but more importantly, none of them are Biblical.

There is simply no need to compromise the clear teaching of scripture to accommodate evolutionary teaching.

Evolutionists maintain that man and dinosaurs never lived together. If a human was found in the same age rock as a dinosaur would they tell us? Or would they assume there must be a problem with the dating technique used, or that the skeleton was redeposited from a different layer. To see examples of this happening read the book "Forbidden Archeology - the hidden history of the human race" by Cremo and Thompson.

Evolutionists hold on to their belief unaware of (or ignoring) the fossil remains of humans which have been found in the very same layers of rock as dinosaurs (see "Forbidden Archeology" mentioned above).

Both scientific and historical evidence (dragon accounts (http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dragon.html)) can be presented supporting the idea that man and dinosaurs have always lived together. It is only recently that the dinosaurs have gone extinct (see the dinosaur index on this site).

---------------------------

Now I submit to you the words that God used in the book of Genesis.

Genesis 1:5 - "And the evening and the morning were the first day"

The word "Yom"(translated "day") in Genesis chapter 1, is a literal period of 24 hours. It is not used here figuratively, to mean anything other than 24-hour days.

I write this page on dinosaurs from a literal 6 day Creationist viewpoint. Any non-Biblical theories of what the word "day" might mean will be discussed elsewhere on other pages. (http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/gap.html) The true meaning of the Hebrew text indicates that a literal interpretation of the days in Genesis is the correct interpretation.

We must believe by faith, the uncompromising Word of God as our source of information. Therefore, knowing and believing that the Bible is true, we can conclude that all land animals were created the same day as man.

Now, let's see where the dinosaurs fit in.

"The Great Behemoth"

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/dinohippo.jpg

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Is the word "dinosaur" in the bible?

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/kjv1611.jpg

The word "dinosaur" is not found anywhere in the Bible. This is because the word "Dinosaur" was not invented until the mid 1800's. The "King James Bible" was translated into English in 1611. - So we would not expect to find the word "dinosaur."

---------------------------

But that doesn't mean that the animals we now call "Dinosaurs" are not in the Bible. It just means that if they are in the Bible, they are called by a different name. The Bible says that Adam named all the animals that God created. So to find the dinosaurs we will have to look for the original Hebrew names given to these creatures
(names like "Behemoth", "Tannin", etc..).

The original name given to the dinosaurs would more accurately describe these animals and their disposition. The word "Dinosaur" means "terrible lizard". And though they became a menace to man after sin had entered the earth, the dinosaurs were not created that way. Dinosaurs are one of the most beautiful of Gods creations. They were created to peacefully coexist with man. (see my page on vegetarian animals - and when they first started to eat meat) (http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/carnivores.html)

From the physical descriptions of some of the Great Creatures of the Bible, it is easy to see where Dinosaurs fit in.

In the book of Job the Bible talks about some of these magnificent creatures. In the book of Job we see the word "Behemoth" being used to describe the largest of the animals God made.

The word "Behemoth" means "Giant, kingly beast".

As you will see, the Behemoth is clearly a dinosaur.

But why the funny name?
It is not unusual to see animals referred to with names we don't recognize. If you look in any Bible dictionary under animals, you will see lots of animals and their original Hebrew names. For example who would recognize the word "namer" as being the cheetah? Or "akbar" as being the mouse?

The translation of many animal names from Hebrew was quite easy. Scholars could look at the physical descriptions and apply the appropriate English name.
But when the translators came to the animal called "Behemoth" (described in Job chapter 40), they didn't know what animal it was because no living animal fit that description. So in the English bible, they kept this animal's original Hebrew name.

The word "Behemoth" is not a direct translation it is a transliteration. Which means that the original Hebrew letters were substituted with the equivalent English letters to enable us to pronounce it.

The translators did this because they did not know of any living animal that fit the description to directly translate the name with.

The obvious conclusion is that the Behemoth was either an unknown animal or an animal that had gone extinct. But it did not live millions of years ago, because Job saw one of these animals with his own eyes. God was not showing Job a vision. The behemoth was created "with" man. This enormous creature lived at the same time, and in the same region as Job.

---------------------------

Some scholars believe that Adam and his descendants wrote the first eleven chapters of Genesis, and that Moses compiled the remaining text of Genesis. If this is true then these 11 chapters would be older than the book of Job (which some say is the oldest book of the Bible).
(See pg 12 of "The remarkable record of Job" by Dr. Henry Morris)
Some scholars date the book of Job at about 2000 years before the birth of Christ.

Either way, God's revelation to Job was important for our understanding of suffering.

Job was a man who lived after the flood in the days of Noah (see page 26 of "The remarkable record of Job" by Henry Morris). Job lost everything he had: his children (Job 1:18), servants (Job 1:17), his great riches, and his livestock (Job 1:15-16).

Job asked God the reason for his suffering. God then used the animals he created to demonstrate to Job his power as Creator, and his love for all of his creation - Including Job.

When you read the descriptions of the animals in the book of Job along with the other scriptures on the following pages, it is very clear that Dinosaurs are in the Bible, and they did live the same time as man. - Not millions of years before.

God starts by telling Job about the small animals that he made. He then continues to describe the other animals, each bigger and stronger than the one he previously mentioned, until finally in the concluding chapters God tells Job about the biggest animal that ever lived. A dinosaur called the "Behemoth"

---------------------------

Job 40:15-24

"15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.


16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.


17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.


18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.


19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.


20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.


21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.


22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.


23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.


24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares."

---------------------------

What kind of animal is the Behemoth?

Some commentators have suggested that the Behemoth could be a hippo, or an elephant. But both of these suggestions ignore the physical description of the Behemoth given in the Bible.

Hippos and elephants have very short tails. The Behemoth described in the Bible had a tail so long and so strong that God compared it to a cedar tree.

The Behemoths tail was as long as, and as strong as the trunk of a tree. Yet it could easily bend like one of its flexible branches.

This description fits no living animal. - This does not imply that the behemoth was a mythical animal, perhaps it is just an extinct one.

Cedar trees were on of the largest and most spectacular trees in the ancient world.

---------------------------

Does behemoth have a tail like a cedar or a tail that moves like a cedar?

David Porter argued against the cedar tree comparison, claiming that the tail merely moved like a cedar, not that is was like a cedar in appearance. ("Could Behemoth have been a dinosaur?" Creation Technical Journal, vol 16(2), 2002).

The word translated "moveth" is the Hebrew "Chaphets" and does not strictly imply motion. It also means "take delight in", but the main meaning is "to feel a strong positive attraction for something". When used as it is in Job 40 verse 17 it connotes subjective involvement. ("The complete Word Study Old Testament" KJV, 1994 AMG International Inc.). For this to be taking place in the mind of, or the thoughts of the behemoth supports the position that Behemoth is proud of his cedar like tail. Other than a sauropod dinosaur with a 13-metre (42.65ft) tail

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/elephantHippo.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/cedartails.jpg

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I have heard people say:
"Well, maybe God was talking about an elephant's trunk, not its tail."

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/longtrunk.jpg

The trunk of an Elephant is not as long as a cedar tree. God made all the animals in the world. I think He would know the difference between a tail and a trunk!

The Hebrew word "zanab" is translated as "tail" not trunk. The tail is distinctively different from the trunk as shown in Deuteronomy 28 verse 13.
"The Lord will make you the head and not the tail (Hebrew zanab)."

The book of "Judges" chapter 15 also uses the word "zanab" speaking of the tails of animals.

Clearly God does indeed know the difference.

There are no known living animals with tails like the majestic cedar trees. Only Dinosaurs have such an enormous tail.

The Apatosaurus had 82 bones in its tail, and the tail of the Diplodocus was 46 feet long.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/dinos/apatovertebrae.jpg

It is so big and so heavy that I need both hands just to lift it. And this is only 1 bone!

The tails of these dinosaurs are the longest tails in the animal kingdom. The fact that the tail is singled out in the description is important in identifying the animal God is talking about.

The great tailbones of these dinosaurs provide the necessary anchorage for the large retractor muscles necessary to move the legs.

Knowing this, it makes sense for the Behemoth's tail to be mentioned in close association with its legs (in verse 18).

The tails of Sauropods could also be used for fending off enemies. One swipe of a Brachiosaurus tail would be enough to put any predatory animal in its place.

This is not the only thing that tails are used for though. Obviously there would be no enemies before Adam and Eve sinned.

There are other Hebrew words for animals like elephants and hippos. If the Behemoth was one of these or the thousands of other known animals, then that Hebrew name would have been used (Elephants are mentioned in 1 Mac ).

If the Behemoth were a hippo, we would expect its large head to be mentioned. This is the strongest part of its body.

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The Sinews

he Hebrew word "gid" was translated into the English word "sinew". A sinew is defined as a "cord", "thong", or "band" and also as a "nerve, tendon, and artery". The literal meaning is the "strength and power of the muscles or tendons".

Genesis 32:32 also speaks of the sinew which is in the hollow of the thigh.

The book of Job verse 17 says:

"The sinews of his stones are wrapped together"

A study of Old Testament words shows that the word translated: "stones" is the thigh of a creature.

Verse 17 means that the sinews hold the bones together. The bigger the bones were the bigger the muscles would need to be.

Hippos have thick hides, which cover what lies beneath. You can not clearly see hippo bones through their skin.
But the sinews and bones of the Behemoth are clearly defined.

The outline of the great muscles surrounding the ribs and thighs of the Apatosaurus may have also been easily seen.

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Trainers and circus performers have domesticated elephants and other large animals. Many will even perform tricks in parades.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/elephanttrick.jpg

But the Bible says that nobody can tame the Behemoth. It is a wild creature.

Likewise, it is unlikely that anyone has ever taught a Brachiosaurus to balance on a large ball, or jump through a hoop.

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Though the hippo and elephant are both very large animals, they are in no way the largest animals that God made.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/dinohippo.jpg

The dinosaurs belonging to the class of Sauropods were the biggest animals that ever lived.

The Apatosaurus was a dinosaur measuring in at 76 feet long.

But this was not the biggest.

Diplodocus (die-PLOH-dah-kus) was a dinosaur measuring at least 87 foot long.

But even he was not the biggest dinosaur that ever lived.

The long necked Ultrasaurus is currently the largest dinosaur ever found.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/supersaurus.jpg

Based on the bones they found the Ultrasaurus is estimated at 100 to 120 feet long. This makes Ultrasaurus the BIGGEST land animal that ever lived. It is even bigger than the blue whale, the largest animal in the water.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/dinosizechart.jpg

( Please note that the above picture is of a Brachiosaurus, not a Ultrasaurus. The Ultrasaurus is much, much bigger.)

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"Jensen selected the name for remains he described in 1985. However, it had already been used in 1983 by Kim in Korea. The Colorado fossil became Ultrasaurus. The Korean fossil turned out to be a rear, not a front leg bone, effectively shrinking that sauropod dramatically. Meanwhile, Jensen's finds have also been revised to the genera Brachiosaurus and perhaps Supersaurus. Supersaurus was possibly 30m long.

There might well once have been something bigger than a blue whale, but there are no totally convincing fossils as yet. (Possibilities in Patagonia: Argentinosaurus and an unnamed vertebra.)"

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The Behemoth was a Reptile

The physical traits attributed to the Behemoth indicate it was reptilian, not mammalian. So whatever the Behemoth was, he was not a mammal. So he could not be an elephant or a hippo. This would also exclude any other animal such as the Rhino or giant sloth.

Unfortunately when pondering what the Behemoth could be, many people limit their minds to non-extinct creatures.

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Large enough to drink a river

In verse 23 it says:

"Behold he drinks up a river and hastens not, he trusts that he can draw up the Jordan (river) into his mouth"

Whatever animal God is speaking about here, he is big enough and strong enough to stand firm in the Jordan river. When other animals would make for the hills, the Behemoth could stand firm in its rushing waters.

He was also big enough and foolish enough to think he can drink the whole river by himself.

A large dinosaur could easily drain a small watering hole.

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Loins

Verse 16 speaks of the behemoth loins.

There are massive bony structures under the hip area of Sauropods (Sauropods are four legged, long necked dinosaurs). These structures, used to anchor its powerful muscles are unique to the sauropod dinosaurs. No other animal has a structure even remotely like it. Perhaps this is why in His description of the mighty dinosaur God used the words: "his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly".
There is no other reason to emphasize this than to disqualify the possibility of the Behemoth being an animal other than a dinosaur.

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Bars of Iron

verse ..18 says that "his bones are as strong as bars of iron."

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/apatofemur.jpg

The Behemoth has powerful legs. So did the great sauropod dinosaurs. They would need them to support their great size. Quadrupeds (4 legged dinosaurs) had strong pillar like legs. The leg bone shown here is almost 6 feet tall!

They were marvelously designed by God to carry the immense weight of their bodies. Brachiosaurus weighed 89 tons, this is more than 12 adult elephants combined.

The Diplodocus had legs so strong that he could support 3 other dinosaurs the same size on its back! (reference)

Like a giant suspension bridge the front and back legs support the entire bulk of the body. The backbones of the Brachiosaurus resemble the "I" shaped steel beams used in construction. These bones had hollow grooves in the sides making them lightweight but strong.

It is interesting to note that no one would think the design and craftsmanship necessary in constructing a bridge like this would happen by chance (perhaps the result of a steel mill explosion). Yet, many of the same people look at the dinosaurs and believe they came into existence without any intelligent design.

Dinosaurs are not the products of millions of years of Evolution.

"Chief of the ways of God"

The Bible says in verse 19 that the Behemoth is the "chief" of all the creatures of God. This means that he was the largest, and the greatest of all the animals.

A study of Old Testament words shows that "chief" also means: "that which is the strongest and most excellent".

The word "chief" is translated from the Hebrew word "resith" which means: "Noble", "chief ruler", "select beast of distinction and eminence", an animal that "resides over" all others, he is the "captain", the "commander"
"the biggest... he is first in rank"

This can only apply to the largest known animal created by God.
The Sauropod Dinosaurs.

(Please note that many other dinosaurs were quite small, and Noah took baby dinosaurs on the ark)

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Is the Behemoth a real animal or a symbolic one?

There are those who suggest that maybe Job was speaking figuratively. Or that he was "a sick man, he didn't know what he was seeing."

My answer to that is, It wasn't Job speaking of the Behemoth. It was God.

Can you accuse God of not knowing which animal he was talking about? He created them all!

When some people realize that the description of the Behemoth matches the dinosaurs, they sometimes reply "Well, maybe the Behemoth is just symbolic".

It's interesting to note, that no one thought the Behemoth was symbolic when they thought it was a hippo.

Knowing that the physical description of the Behemoth did not fit any living animals, some people concluded that the Behemoth was a fictitious animal, or a pagan symbol. However imaginary animals do not eat, walk and breathe like the Behemoth does. And if it were a pagan symbol then it would be a symbol detestable to God. It would not be "chief of the ways of God" like the Bible describes. Or an animal singled out in the Bible to show Gods great strength and power.

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The Behemoth was a herbivore

Verse 15 says that the Behemoth "...eats grass, like an ox"

The Bible does not say that the behemoth was an ox. It says that like the ox, the Behemoth also eats grass.

Dinosaurs along with all other animals were created to be vegetarian. Genesis 1:29 makes this very clear. They only ate meat after sin came into the world, and death through sin.

Genesis also tells us when men and animals were first permitted to eat meat. This was in chapter 9:3 when Noah and the animals got off of the ark. Prior to this there was no carnivorous activity. Changes in the dentition of these animals can be explained by the post-fall degeneration of man and animals.

God lifted the dietary restrictions (for both man and animals) at this time due to the post flood extinction of many plants that previously provided adequate nourishment. (see the Dinosaur subject index for information on vegetarian animals in the Garden of Eden). (http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dinoindex.html)

The long necked Brachiosaurus had powerful jaws. But these dinosaurs only ate plants. The sharp spoon shaped teeth were perfect for stripping off leaves and bits of grass.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/dinowithtrees.jpg

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Verse 24 says: "He takes it with his eyes, his nose pierces through the snares".

Snares were traps and nets made of cords. Some traps are set in the path of a creature to catch it by the foot. Others are baited traps involving a noose around the neck.

Many animals can be captured.

But if you slipped a noose around a Brachiosaurus, you would soon be taken for the ride of your life!

The fact that the eyes and nose are mentioned in verse 24 is important. The Behemoth is a land animal, but it can hide in the water with only its eyes and nose exposed.

The Brachiosaurus and other Sauropods could submerge their bodies in water, hiding themselves with only their eyes and their nose visible. Unlike other animals whose nose is positioned directly above the mouth, the nose of the sauropod is located on the top of their heads.

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Verse 19 says: "He who made him can make his sword to approach unto him"

This indicates that though man may fail in trying to capture, or kill this great beast, the same God who Created the dinosaurs can also defeat them.

This may also be reassurance to Job that though the serpent has succeeded in deceiving man in the beginning and causing his fall in the Garden of Eden, in the end, God will slay the serpent and ultimately defeat Satan himself. It also shows Gods power as Creator, and demonstrates to Job that Satan, not God is the cause for Job's problems.

God told Job to "behold" the Behemoth. God was showing Job an animal that Job was already familiar with. It was a creature that Job had seen many times with his own eyes. It was also a creature that God wanted Job to learn an important lesson from.

If the Behemoth is indeed a dinosaur, then this verse alone shows that dinosaurs did live with Job, and that both man and dinosaurs are equally part of God's Creation.

The Behemoth was to represent the awesome power of God. What better creature to show God's strength and power than the sauropod dinosaur?

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/images/behemoth/jobanddino.jpg

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Dinosaurs should be used as an evangelistic tool to bring people closer to the God that made them.

Instead Satan uses dinosaurs as a tool of deception. There is no better animal for Satan to use against the very God that created them, than the animal that represented the very power of God himself.

No other animal has been used to support the Anti-God philosophy of Evolution more than the dinosaur. Then animal best able to show God's strength and power in His Creation is the animal most often used to deny the existence of a Creator.

One of the biggest reasons that many people believe in Evolution is that they do not know the truth about dinosaurs. They do not know how they fit in with Biblical History. Thus they reject the Bible and the Creation account.

God knew that Satan would try to deceive man into thinking that all life has evolved, and that there is no Creator.

God also knew that one day the great dinosaurs would be extinct, and we would find their bones. This is why He devoted so much space in the Bible to their description. In the Bible, no other animal is singled out as often, or is spoken of in such great detail as the dinosaurs/dragons. Read my page on dragons for more descriptions of dinosaurs in the bible.
(http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dragon.html)
God did not intend for the identity of the Behemoth to be a mystery. For if its identity is uncertain, then the lesson in the book of Job is not learned. Leaving us to wonder why God allows bad things to happen.

Dinosaurs are known all over the world. Their fossils have been found on every continent. Likewise the eyewitness accounts of "dragons" were as well known in the days of Job as dinosaurs are to us now.

The truth is dinosaurs do not support evolution, or a belief in an old earth. Sadly not many people ever get a chance to learn this.

You can learn more about dinosaurs from 2 hours of reading your Bible, than man has learned on his own in the last 150 years of studying their bones.

If you believe the Bible is truly the Word of God, then there is no mystery to the dinosaurs. The Bible tells us when they lived, what they ate, and how they died. It even tells us about the love and mercy of the God who created them.

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Dinosaurs and man DID live together. There is plenty of ways to prove this.

Dinosaurs have been found in the same layer of strata (rock) as man (this is discussed further on my other pages). This in itself falsifies the gap of millions of years that Evolutionists claim separates them.

But most importantly from scripture we know that all animals were created to live peacefully with man.

So... DAK...

Did the spirit of YZF posses you or something?

and IIRC that was already gone over in detail by YZF in a thread a couple months ago.

Whoops...

lol, I usually don't read his mega-posts so I had no idea... I just read this today since I don't have any pics to post, so I decided to share... :D

most of that is on AIG

that means that some of it is not on AIG, so some of it actually has a chance of being TRUE ?

!!!!!

I will have to reread it and see if I can spot any actual facts.

that means that some of it is not on AIG, so some of it actually has a chance of being TRUE ?

!!!!!

I will have to reread it and see if I can spot any actual facts.

:rofl:

Yah so when are Christians going to re-write the bible to fit that in, Im sure its about time for a revision.

There was recently an Allosaurus bone (which is alleged to be 140 million years old) but it was carbon dated at only 16 Thousand years old! Click Here for more information on this and other problems with carbon dating

DAK--I know that you posted this, but just to point out, Mark insists that the Bible proves only about 6,000 years of earth's existence.....that it was not there before that time. I am very curious as to your take on this very large discrepancy, when compared to the holy shitter's repeated(ad nauseum) persistence...if a dino bone is found to be 16,000 years old, doesnt that kill off the "6,000 years" argument entirely?

Large enough to drink a river

In verse 23 it says:

"Behold he drinks up a river and hastens not, he trusts that he can draw up the Jordan (river) into his mouth"

Whatever animal God is speaking about here, he is big enough and strong enough to stand firm in the Jordan river. When other animals would make for the hills, the Behemoth could stand firm in its rushing waters.

He was also big enough and foolish enough to think he can drink the whole river by himself.

A large dinosaur could easily drain a small watering hole.


http://www.american.edu/ted/ice/westbank.htm
Hydrography of the Jordan River Basin

The final flow of the Jordan River, when it reaches the Dead Sea at 400 meters below sea level, is on average 1,470 mcm/yr.

4027397/day

167808/hr

2796/min

46.5 cm/sec


http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-densityunits.htm

Water of 4 °C is the reference with ρ = 1000 kg/m3

m3 = cm = cubic meter

so 46500 kg/sec


http://www.ookingdom.com/metric/factors
One US ton equals: 907.2 kilograms

50 tons per second = flowrate of the jordan river.


Brachiosaurus weighed 89 tons

so if an Behemoth weighed 150 tons it would double its bodyweight in 3 seconds drinking the jordan river.

"Behold he drinks up a river and hastens not, he trusts that he can draw up the Jordan (river) into his mouth"


I am trying to visualise the mouth that can swallow 50 tons of water a second.

water is incompressable, so the area of the mouth would be governed by the velocity of the water reletive to the head.

the faster the water the smaller the mouth can be.

so if "the Behemoth could stand firm in its rushing waters" and drink it all, its mouth would have to be as big as the river.

it could increase the reletive speed of the water by wiggling its head around but it doesn't feel like that would help much, plus it would be undignified.


nope, this sounds like fairytale stuff, not the description of a living creature.

I have the answer to this one right here.....

From the scriptures above:

He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.


'Ziziphus lotus' is the lotus tree. According to any source on that tree that I could find, here is a description of that tree:

Ziziphus lotus is a deciduous shrub in the buckthorn family Rhamnaceae, native to the Mediterranean region. It can reach a height of 2-5 m, with shiny green leaves about 5 cm long. The fruit is a globose dark yellow drupe 1-1.5 cm diameter.

Will someone PLEASE tell me how a creature as big as we all know dinosaurs to have been could lie in the shade of a tree that only grows that tall? How large would such a creature have to be that it could swallow up the entire Jordan river?

By comparison, the largest elephant is the Savanna Elephant. It can reach up to 4 meters tall at the shoulder, and at that height it weighs a little more than 15,000 pounds. HMMM.....the math is really not adding up here....how could a creature that is short enough to fit under a lotus tree weigh so much more than that? Did they have genetically mutated trees in biblical times or something??

Something is not adding up in this one...

This book is pre-flood.

Theres always the chance that the tree reffered to no longer exists.

What is the oldest book in the bible?

Most people tell me Gen.

It's actually Job :)

Oh goody-goody.
-I love it when Mark tells someone who has supported him that they are wrong.
:D

that means that some of it is not on AIG, so some of it actually has a chance of being TRUE ?


OK, that's about the funniest thing I've read on here. Ever.

says the lab tech who supposedly "proved" Jon Sarfati (an absolutely brilliant man, and chess champion) wrong

:roll:

Yeah, I proved it wrong. Where's your contradictory evidence? Where's your information disproving me? Oh yeah, you don't have any. There's a fucking shock. And wow, he's a chess champion. Big whoop. That makes him an expert on blood types how, exactly?

Should we go line by line through that thread where I beat the shit out of those theories, or do I really need to create a whole new thread about it and tear them completely apart? Say the word, I'll start the thread, and you can e-mail the link to Jon Sarfati and he can debate me on it. I have NO problem with that. Tell him to bring himself on over.

This book is pre-flood.

Theres always the chance that the tree reffered to no longer exists.

What is the oldest book in the bible?

Most people tell me Gen.

It's actually Job :)

The tree certainly is called a lotus tree, and I posted an accurate description of it.

Also, no one seems to wanna bite on the "16,000 years" thing....why not?

disagree...Job was likely written sometime after the flood, still well before Abraham (in the patriarchal period of Genesis)

"dinosaurs" (large reptiles) were still on the earth, but they did not last very long, perhaps a few hundred years, and became extinct

Start a new thread! :D

you can e-mail the link to Jon Sarfati and he can debate me on it. I have NO problem with that. Tell him to bring himself on over.

That would be cool to watch :D

The tree certainly is called a lotus tree, and I posted an accurate description of it.

Also, no one seems to wanna bite on the "16,000 years" thing....why not?

Yes, I was going to mention that, too. Nice to see that they rely on carbon dating when it suits them, disavow it when it doesn't, and ignore the fact they quote 16k years when they claim the earth is only 6000 years old.

Yes, I was going to mention that, too. Nice to see that they rely on carbon dating when it suits them, disavow it when it doesn't, and ignore the fact they quote 16k years when they claim the earth is only 6000 years old.

I noticed that too--for a long time now, we have heard the oft-parroted "carbon dating is not accurate" speech....but when they think it puts a feather in their cap, they say "LOOK--carbon dating says that this bone is NOT millions of years old!!!"

But again, no one answers....hmmm....

bah...no one cares...you proved nothing

you can talk blood types until you are blue in the face, but you're staring at a gnat and missing the mountain: God CREATED A HUMAN BEING FROM NOTHING

disprove that!


.....VIGO!!!

--skip--

.....VIGO!!!

--skip--

.....VIGO!!!

--skip--

says the lab tech who supposedly "proved" Jon Sarfati (an absolutely brilliant man, and chess champion) wrong

it is not the authority of the person, it is the facts that do the 'proving'.


C-14 is being discovered in dinosaur bones (which should be long gone if they were truly "millions of years" old) and C-14 has also been found in diamonds!

half life = an atom can potentially live forever while the rest of its companions decay.

an isotope of carbon is found in a carbon crystal ... eek.

worth investigating, not a "problem" , Data.



God CREATED A HUMAN BEING FROM NOTHING

disprove that!


if he did he also created the bloodtypes in a way that disproves his act, specifically to fool the "wise" who actually look at reality.

:bowdown: :screwyou:

eep, god created adam out of DUST that was already there, not out of nothing, ;)

:bowdown: :screwyou:

I've seen that guy in person, he's incredibly sharp

you called me names, so ...:smacktalk:

it doesn't take much of an edge to cut through warm butter.

so a blade that impresses mixed up udder bloat might not seem as razorlike to the skin of a normal person.

:peace:

kevin would last through the discussion on blood types for about one minute and then put his head between his legs and cry for the rest of the debate

Kinda like you did when I handed you your ass on it? Go ahead and deny that it happened, everyone else here will back me up that you did indeed get your ass handed to you.

I've seen that guy in person, he's incredibly sharp

And yet I say, bring him on over.

I don't care how smart he is, Mark... I'm pretty smart, too... And, I know more about the topic than he does.

For example, I could be smarter than DAK... But if we discussed anime, I'd look like an imbecile. I could be smarter than Dennis... But if we discussed rebuilding carbs, I'd look stupid. It's all about knowing the subject of discussion.

I think it would be cool just to see the discussion.

Alas, Mark can do no such thing as to invite proponents of his cause to this forum. He should be too ashamed of himself for them to see.
-Surely I would not be able to contain myself should someone visit. ;)

...Perhaps they will.

I'd donate to the church of Mark's choice to have Mr. MacArthur himself visit and see what a disgusting example of putrid arrogance and contempt for man that Mark is.

So uhhhh, WTF are YOU doin' here? :scratch:

ya, like any of those guys would waste their precious time on this group :roll:

Oh, so now they're too good for us??? Typical Christians.

And, BTW, I'm typing up a whole dissertation on this, and getting ready to start a new thread on it. Then, I will e-mail the link to AIG myself.

I suggest you write them a letter that details, point-by-point, your exceptions to their article...they publish these all the time on the website

they won't take an internet link seriously

I don't want them to publish me, I want them to come here and debate me.

won't happen....they prob get 500 such requests a day

Gee, I can't imagine why. :rolleyes:

I'll tell you why, Kevin;

It's because anyone schooled in the medical field, or any other science for that matter, but who is not a staunch conservative ChristiaNazi, is obviously doing so solely to try to disprove the Bible. They do this because they are evil, demonic, pagan sinnaholics.

It's the work of Satan. Satan uses these tactics on people. He is thousands of years old, but that makes no difference to God. People should still be smarter than that darn Satan. It's their fault they allow themselves to be led astray like that.
Tsk-Tsk.

Hell, I just wanna hear someone try to come up with a valid rebuttal for the 16,000 years claims....no one wants to talk about it now, though....after all, Marky over there is the undisputed king of "the earth is only 6,000 years old"....but now, even with more than one of us asking it, no one can answer...

if Kevin has a valid argument, it's because the origin of blood types is not fully understood

See, that's horseshit. Your website is claiming that they have the answers, and that it IS the truth that all the blood types came from Adam and Eve. And I'm telling you, that is impossible. Then you come in here and make outlandish claims that are possible only in some sort of alternate reality, that the laws of human blood and genetics were all suspended back in the good ol' days... People lived to be 900 years old, the earth is only 6000 years old, etc, etc.

the laws of human blood and genetics were all suspended back in the good ol' days.

yup.

that is the point.

all those "laws" are mere inventions of feeble man trying to explain the whims of the allmighty creator, who is in no way bound by the "laws" that we create.

that the laws work is a trick the LORD is playing on us to fool us into not believing the fairytale so He can feel 'justified' in sending us to hell.

where we will scream for his eternal glory.

See, that's horseshit. Your website is claiming that they have the answers, and that it IS the truth that all the blood types came from Adam and Eve. And I'm telling you, that is impossible. Then you come in here and make outlandish claims that are possible only in some sort of alternate reality, that the laws of human blood and genetics were all suspended back in the good ol' days... People lived to be 900 years old, the earth is only 6000 years old, etc, etc.

When men began to multiply on earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of heaven saw how beautiful the daughters of man were, and so they took for their wives as many of them as they chose.

Then the LORD said: "My spirit shall not remain in man forever, since he is but flesh. His days shall comprise one hundred and twenty years."

At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth (as well as later), after the sons of heaven had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown. When the LORD saw how great was man's wickedness on earth, and how no desire that his heart conceived was ever anything but evil, he regretted that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was grieved.

- Genesis, chapter 6 (NAB)

God made a mistake? :scratch:
-I thought he was infallable.

When men began to multiply on earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of heaven saw how beautiful the daughters of man were, and so they took for their wives as many of them as they chose.

Then the LORD said: "My spirit shall not remain in man forever, since he is but flesh. His days shall comprise one hundred and twenty years."

At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth (as well as later), after the sons of heaven had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown. When the LORD saw how great was man's wickedness on earth, and how no desire that his heart conceived was ever anything but evil, he regretted that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was grieved.

- Genesis, chapter 6 (NAB)

And in Greek mythology, the Gods and Goddesses took husbands and wives among themselves...

But those are just "myths".

Think it is possable that is where multiple blood types come into the picture?

so you're saying the full range of blood types came into play when fallen angels started having sex with people?

that would be neat.

but the flood was supposed to wipe them all out.

Thats all "Book of Enoch" stuff :p

so you're saying the full range of blood types came into play when fallen angels started having sex with people?

that would be neat.

but the flood was supposed to wipe them all out.

naturally the spouses of noahs kids would have carried all the variations needed.

what interests me is how the "sons of heaven" were not children of adam yet were genetically compatable with humans.

sort of like the girls that adams sons went and married, not human but capable of making human babies.

and the people that cain was afraid would execute him for murder.

nonhumans that could reproduce with humans and produce human babies.

sinners.

maybe somebody forgot the book that told about god changing the fallen angels into humans ?

not a special act of creation, a miracle in revenge for them following satan.

this would go toward the flood story, the LORD could use the flood to execute the fleshly bodies he put the rebellious angels in after using them to bulk up the population.


of course if this -after the sons of heaven had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons.
is talking about obedient angels, losing that book looks like a good idea.

looping us back to the third human.

or nonhuman.

which bloodtype is the remnant of the nonhuman breed ?

Think it is possable that is where multiple blood types come into the picture?

Ok, so now the theory has gone from Mark's AIG sites blatant ignorance of genetics and Adam and Eve to "fallen angels", which is really no different than Greek mythology.

Again, it's my contention that the Bible is NOT supposed to be taken literally. Read the stories, learn the lessons (just like in any "mythology", "folk tales", etc) but the stories are just that: Stories.

Again, it's my contention that the Bible is NOT supposed to be taken literally. Read the stories, learn the lessons (just like in any "mythology", "folk tales", etc) but the stories are just that: Stories.

but the lesson is "genetic engineering through murdering women and children is gods will."

I believe blood types were a natural mutation that occurred over a relatively short period of time, like the human races themselves

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

And, when you see my dissertation on the subject, I'll make sure to explain how that is just not possible. At all. In any way, shape or form. If you knew how antibodies and antigens work, you would know that just couldn't happen.

wrong....literal history

"the only we ever learn from history is that mankind never learns anything from history!"

OK, here's some LITERAL history for you, Mr. Wizard:

Many civilizations have had their own religions. The Greeks believed in Zeus, Hera, Apollo, Atlas, etc. They built temples and shrines to these gods... You might have heard of some of them.

This is one of MANY temples to the Goddess Athena, the Goddess of wisdom:
http://sights.seindal.dk/img/medium/443.jpg

Here's one to Apollo:
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/g/greek/greek_apollo.jpg

How about one to Zeus?
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/g/greek/greek_zeus.jpg

Now, what do these pictures mean? Those were their churches, Mark. This wasn't just some random story book. Do you realize the time, expense, and just sheer effort required to build those? It's not like they were building Disneyland, and it was all for fun. There were priests to these Gods, there were offerings, financial donations, etc, etc. Hell, there might have even been some molestation, so it could have pretty much what your mainstream religions of today have.

Most of the stories involved the creation of the Earth... The creation of man... And, explanation for things they didn't understand, i.e. lightning, the movement of the sun through the sky (Apollo on a chariot), that type of thing. All things which science has proven to be different than said religion.

As the religion phased out, which they all do eventually, the stories went from being the foundation of daily life to just being called "myths".

Let's talk a little closer to home. Here's a nice little Aztec temple:

http://images.43things.com/place/00/02/63/156420lr.jpg

Same deal with the Aztecs. Same effort to build temples to their gods, same stories to explain the Earth, the start of man, scientific stuff we know now...

Ultimately, the religion phased out, and the stories went from being the foundation of daily life to just being called "myths".

Here's an Egyptian temple:

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/pix/komombo.JPG

Same effort to build temples to their gods, same stories to explain the Earth, the start of man, scientific stuff we know now...

Ultimately, the religion phased out, and the stories went from being the foundation of daily life to just being called "myths".

So, do you see where I'm going with this, Mark? You want literal history, there it is:

Ultimately, the religion phased out, and the stories went from being the foundation of daily life to just being called "myths".

So now, I guess I've kinda proven you right: The only thing YOU'VE learned from history is that YOU don't learn anything from history.


as in the days of Noah, so it will be again! mass extinction....

And boy, do you have a hard on for that to happen! You're like a serial killer, getting so excited to watch your victims bleed, scream for mercy, then die.

Remember, when you finally do go on that multi-state killing spree, most of the sinners are south-west of you. No sinners up here in Rhode Island, nope, none at all. :D

Again, it's my contention that the Bible is NOT supposed to be taken literally. Read the stories, learn the lessons (just like in any "mythology", "folk tales", etc) but the stories are just that: Stories.

Definitely deserves a +1 from me on that

I guess they'll change their minds and see that they were wrong...

On the flip, where will the believers be when they think the end is coming ala Y2K and the problem gets solved without the prophetic outcome that they've all been waiting for?

Lemme guess... "Oh, it'll come... Just gotta wait till next time..."

notice I did not say the Tribulation period and the seven year peace accord would necessarily begin after the present conflict, of course that would be presumptuous

but....it's clear everything predicted in the Bible about Israel has come to pass and will come to pass, the world is so ready for globalism....and for 1900 years it was a deserted wasteland, now there are 6 millions Jews there

this stuff is not coincidence! at least to someone who knows prophecy

Yeah, I understand that... You've definitely made that quite clear a few times before on this forum, and I agree that there are quite a few coincidences that are suspect to having greater meaning...

But, your response really didn't answer my question... If things don't happen as the book says it will, where will that leave the believers?

tell, you what, print this page and stick in your desk somewhere....I believe it will happen within our lifetimes

http://www.theforumlounge.com/thread7329-israel-lebanon.html


the prophetical scenario is:

1. "After many days" the Jews are regathered to the land of Israel after being scattered all over the world since 70 A.D....to a land that "had long been desolate"
2. Israel is in a state of constant turmoil...as the Tribulation nears, the Jews are living in "the center of the land" with "walls and gates and bars" (NOW)
3. There is an extended period of war in Israel, nothing specific is stated
4. World attention is drawn to the need for peace in Israel
5. Great leader from the E.U. (the "revived Roman empire") comes to power after appearing to come back from the dead, and orchestrates a seven year peace treaty between Israel and her Arab enemies
6. Jews rebuild temple in Jerusalem and begin O.T. practice of animal sacrifice again (key point)
7. Blissful world peace for 3-1/2 years, Israel is properous under a false messiah, everyone will think the world's problems have been solved, everyone will think the European leader is the greatest guy ever, world religious system of "tolerance", intense persecution of Christians
8. After 3-1/2 years, the European leader has enough of the phony religious system, goes into the newly rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, and declares Himself to be God, everyone must worship him and take the mark
9. All hell breaks lose on earth, essentially everyone dies, virtually every green thing burned up, world's armies gather for Armeageddon in Megiddo (a vast plain northwest of Jerusalem)
10. Christ returns to rule and usher in the Millennial Kingdom....remaining Jews repopulate the earth

Thanks for the summary and the pointout of your beliefs, but you're still kinda dodging the question at hand that I've presented to you...

IF things end up not being as they seem they will end up, what would believers of the faith like yourself end up doing next? I know the concept of the prophecy being wrong is almost impossible and unbelievable to those deeply rooted in the faith, but IF that just happens to be the case, what then?

the Bible is "just a story" until every single event prophesied concerning Israel sees a literal fulfillment in the near future

where will the skeptics be then?

Or until it doesn't happen, which is far more likely.

By the way, do us a favor, Mark. I am requesting that you start a new thread about Biblical prophecies, specifically the ones you mentioned above... I want to see the actual verses from the Bible. You can comment on them afterwards as you wish, but I want to see the pure, untainted verses.

Thank you.

Yeah, the ones specifically in regards to Israel.

Gracias.

but....it's clear everything predicted in the Bible about Israel has come to pass and will come to pass, this stuff is not coincidence! at least to someone who knows prophecy

the people who made it come to pass DID know, and believe, those prophecies, also no coincidence.

for an example, bush knows that a big battle will be held over there, and where is he sending all sorts of cool weapons ? for no good reason ?

if everybody knows a big fight is going to happen somewhere and they all show up prepared for the fight , what are the odds that none of them is going to say "let's fight !" ?

so the bible says the jews go back, the cristians know the jews are going back and do what they can to help, because the bible says to.

OF COURSE events are following the script that is read to multiplied millions every week.


:bowdown: :repost:

you haven't read Revelation, have ya?

the terrifying events predicted for this old earth are so other-wordly, so horrific in scale, so un-human in their origin of power, that no "conspiracy" by any human agency even holds a candle to what is predicted



After the Universe is dissolved, all Creation is renewed, and the cycle of the four Ages begins again with Krita Yuga. "A cycle of the Yugas comprises twelve thousand divine years. A full thousand of such cycles constitutes a Day of Brahma." At the end of each Day of Brahma comes "Universal Destruction".

Markandeya goes on to say that the world grows extremely sinful at the close of the last Kali Yuga of the Day of Brahma. Brahmans abstain from prayer and meditation, and Sudras take their place. Kshatriyas and Vaisyas forget the duties of their castes; all men degenerate and beasts of prey increase. The earth is ravaged by fire, cows give little milk, fruit trees no longer blossom, Indra sends no rain; the world of men becomes filled with sin and immorality. . . . Then the earth is swept by fire, and heavy rains fall until the forests and mountains are covered over by the rising flood. All the winds pass away; they are absorbed by the Lotus floating on the breast of the waters, in which the Creator sleeps; the whole Universe is a dark expanse of water.

well, I don't know about all that crap, but God's Word says the present heavens and earth will be destroyed by fire and created anew after the present age of sin and death, which I personally believe will be 7,000 years, to the day (including the Millinneum)-Disrespect of another's beliefes. -1 point.

Yeah, I understand that... You've definitely made that quite clear a few times before on this forum, and I agree that there are quite a few coincidences that are suspect to having greater meaning...

But, your response really didn't answer my question... If things don't happen as the book says it will, where will that leave the believers?

If the sun doesnt rise tommorow
If air just suddenly decides to stop containing O2

Etc etc

It's all the same thing. :-p

What about Sturgeon they are said to have lived when the dinosaurs lived??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/Dinosaurs.jpg

So Noah was able to keep and feed things like a pair of tyrannosaurus on his ark?

Hmmm.
Yeah. THAT makes sense. :rolleyes:

So the unicorn really did exist, along with the "jackalope" and "arbor cannabis", but Noah had to feed them all to the dinosaurs?

So Noah was able to keep and feed things like a pair of tyrannosaurus on his ark?

Hmmm.
Yeah. THAT makes sense. :rolleyes:

So the unicorn really did exist, along with the "jackalope" and "arbor cannabis", but Noah had to feed them all to the dinosaurs?

No, of course not Dennis. Don't you know that God made all the carnivores act really, really, really nice, and they all just played pinochle for 40 days?

when the dinos died of starvation, noah busted out the Caterpillar and pushed the carcus off the Ark............. or maybe he feed the meat to those kangaroos.........

This thread has YZF so beat-the-fuck-up he really can't answer it intelligently.

It's worse than his other "reponses" that a 1st grader can ass rape him in this thread.......

keep digging............ to the village that's missing it's idiot.

Let's recap.

Did Noah have enough food, knowledge, space, peopleware to house and care for this many animals?

NEGATIVE

This thread is so easy that even a caveman can do it.......

http://www.adhaiku.com/images/geico_caveman.jpg

that's an objective and unbias site?

:rofl:

the larger creatures were likely juveniles....this isn't the big deal people make it out to be

Have you ever been around juvenile animals? Most likely not.

I have. When my two labs had puppies 3 1/2 years ago, the eight of them were cute little friends... 4 went home, 4 stayed until they were 13 months, which is when they go through "social maturation", which means they are juveniles and they are figuring out the pecking order.

That's when the nasty fights between the two male puppies or the two female puppies started. Fights over "first to the food bowl", fights for dominance, fights for the sake of fighting sometimes. I broke up a fight between the two girls, and got bitten in the face... I took 65 stitches from it. Now, mind you, these were 35 to 45 pound labradors, not several hundred or thousand pound carnivores, where generally the fights are to the death. Don't believe me? Watch Animal Planet sometime. Noah's Ark would have been a fucking WAR ZONE.

There were no dinosaurs on the ark. I doubt there even was an ark, personally.

Essentially Mark's response is "Anything's possible. :shrug: "

Essentially Mark's response is "Anything's possible. :shrug: "

No, Mark's response is "Anything in the Bible is possible, but nothing else is."

This just in!!!
Noah's ark:

http://www.mccullagh.org/db9/1ds2-5/pebble-beach-driftwood.jpg

And noah ark's for ants is a floating shit.

that will fuck some gopher up.

California.......

thats funny...he comments on this pic, but still refuses to answer batman's other pic.....I wonder why that is....

Which one, the Fartwell building?

ever been to a zoo? is a zoo a "war zone"? it's called cages

lame point #502FACT:
Noah would have had to spend more time manufacturing cages than he did creating the ark.
Bible talk much about cages, Mark?

And making cages for all those animals would take, what? Mmmm, couple days. :rolleyes:

-If you ever did any work in your life, you would realize just how stupid you're being.

Well why not, Mark? You don't think that's an important and major part of the construction of the ark?
Even YOU aren't that stupid.

I don't think they caged the animals.

It wasnt in the blueprint.

GENESIS 6:13-21

13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress [c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. [d] 16 Make a roof for it and finish [e] the ark to within 18 inches [f] of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons' wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

Let's see here....

1--"Make rooms for it"....Even if you do not equate that with cages or pens, OBVIOUSLY so many animals would have to be kept separated from others. Are you seriously thinking that they put predator and prey in the same space?? Even you cant be that retarded....

2--"You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you."....450 feet in length does not allow very much room for that many. Also, let's get real here--there is no possible way that Noah and company only took the infants. This is simple--younglings still need to feed from their mother in so many cases. If you only bring the babies, what would you feed them? any animal that nurses cannot eat normal food yet, so what would you propose Noah did--tear off his shirt and offer them a nipple? Such animals would not have survived that period of time.

3--"Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks".....correct me if I am wrong, but this states "Put A DOOR". Didnt you try earlier to post a link that talked of the possibility of loading several lines of animals at once? ONE DOOR, Mark....God even says so in His Word. Any speculation that goes against that is wrong according to YOU, is it not??

Also, there were three decks. If Noah took all the smaller animals, why wouldnt they have built more decks? Do you seriously think that ducks and mice needed 15 feet of head room? And if he took all the young uns, why would he need 15 feet per deck?

The 15 feet was for the unicorns and dinosaurs. ;)

A second question that no one seems to have an answer for--if God did away with humans because of man's morality, why did he repopulate the planet with the same humans that had the same morality?

Seems to me that this precisely fits the definition of insanity--repeating the same behavoir and expecting a different result.....

#1 - Good point, the hebrew word "Kane" or "קן" means 'rooms' or 'nests'. I conveniently forgot about that. :P Though it does allow for massive subdivision.

#2 - Those mesurements are guessess, and it doesnt say "take every" it says "take _OF_ every." and what it does say is to take of every "kind" or "מין" (some speculate it could be used as the word "species")

#3 - One little door to salvation. . . hrm. (Watch for reoccuring themes :P)

What in the world translation are you using, anyway? It's taking some crazy liberties.

A second question that no one seems to have an answer for--if God did away with humans because of man's morality, why did he repopulate the planet with the same humans that had the same morality?

Seems to me that this precisely fits the definition of insanity--repeating the same behavoir and expecting a different result.....

You will have no answer if you ask no question.

Ask and ye . . .

At this point, God's work was still in progress. To me personally, the whole event seems to be an illustration of what is to come, the land being corrupt, only a few will be right in the eyes of God, vast majority destroyed, only a small door to salvation, being tested for 40 days (who else did that happen to?) coming to rest on top of the mountain, etc etc.

If this is not the answer you were looking for, I'll give it another shot if you want, but it's going to take a lot more effort on my part.

#1 - Good point, the hebrew word "Kane" or "קן" means 'rooms' or 'nests'. I conveniently forgot about that. :P Though it does allow for massive subdivision.

#2 - Those mesurements are guessess, and it doesnt say "take every" it says "take _OF_ every." and what it does say is to take of every "kind" or "מין" (some speculate it could be used as the word "species")

#3 - One little door to salvation. . . hrm. (Watch for reoccuring themes :P)

What in the world translation are you using, anyway? It's taking some crazy liberties.

1--thanks for being honest enough to admit this. And, please see if youc an get some of that honesty to rub off on Marky over there. Seeing how he claims that there is no such mention of any rooms or cages in the Bible...

2--the measurements are not guesses. The actual terms used back in that day were "cubits". Thanks to history, we can tell what a cubit was.

Take your pick--

Roman cubit....300 cubits = 437.007 874 016 feet

English cubit....300 cubits = 450 feet

Egyptian cubit....300 cubits = 442.913 385 827 feet

Conversions were done here--

http://www.onlineconversion.com/length_all.htm

No matter which one you use, the dimensions are definitely in the same ballpark. And, since any of these versions of a cubit are equal to about a foot and a half, the terms GOD used, 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high easily translates into about 450 feet long, about 75 feet wide, and about 45 feet high. NOT guesses by any stretch. Thats a fact, jack.

3--Recurring themes, maybe, but let's get real here. Mark posted a link that claims that Noah likely loaded several lines of animals at once and could have gotten it done in five hours. Why is it acceptable in Mark's case to ridicule anyone who goes against precisely what God says in the Bible, until he does it himself? Then it is supposed to be ok?? Sorry, but that is hypocrisy at its best and we all have seen more of that from him than we care to. And this is just a little point--he cant even be honest and humble enough to stick to the good book then?? HMMMMM....

By the way, this really hurts any credibility that the website he keeps pulling links from could have had. Not a good way to bolster a position if I do say so myself....

If it was just a theme, then the whole thing would just be a story anyways, designed to make use of those "recurring themes" instead of telling what really happened. So, obviously it was more than that.

And translation is NIV....

You will have no answer if you ask no question.

Ask and ye . . .

At this point, God's work was still in progress. To me personally, the whole event seems to be an illustration of what is to come, the land being corrupt, only a few will be right in the eyes of God, vast majority destroyed, only a small door to salvation, being tested for 40 days (who else did that happen to?) coming to rest on top of the mountain, etc etc.

If this is not the answer you were looking for, I'll give it another shot if you want, but it's going to take a lot more effort on my part.

Again, I appreciate the effort you took. Thanks for that reply.

the measurements are not guesses. The actual terms used back in that day were "cubits". Thanks to history, we can tell what a cubit was.

Sorry, I miscommunicated. I ment the cubit was the guess, each of those cubits are known, but what was a cubit in the day that this book was written? Even if the Ark was ~450 feet, I would belive it possable to accomplish the task.

3

I wasnt implying it was a made up story :P

And translation is NIV....

NIV is an "OK" translation. It's got it's share of errors and liberties. I used to like it a lot till I found them :p It gets the point across tho :)

Off the top of my head:
Favorites: ASV - LITV - NKJV
Good: ALT KJV

OK: NIV
Bad: AMP
TERRABLE BURN IT WITH FIRE: GNB

Again, I appreciate the effort you took. Thanks for that reply.

NP!

If the animals are chillin and going to noah on their own then maybe they're all goin to just hang out and sleep on bean bags.

If the animals are chillin and going to noah on their own then maybe they're all goin to just hang out and sleep on bean bags.

I dont know about that--the links Marky posted earlier stated that Noah did not bring plants aboard the ark, so there was no pot there to make everyone all mellow....

just a footnote:

in the days of Noah, demons has interbreeded with human women, creating a race of half demon, half human....these were "men of renown", likely capable of incredible feats of strength and power

satan was trying to destroy true humanity, so no true humans would be left on the earth, to be redeemed by the true human Savior....so God wiped them out, and began again with true humans (Noah and his family), although He knew full well sin would go on

sounds science fiction, but this is absolutely what Genesis (and the little epistle of Jude) record

Genesis 6

When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them." But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Not a chance.

First, out of all the humans on this rock, you mean to tell us that EVERY SINGLE ONE was a bad apple? Except for Noah, they all were evil? That is a little far-fetched, son, even for you. For one thing, just because the scripture mentions the Nephilim, how do you come to the conclusion that ALL were Nephilim? Certainly there must have been SOMEONE who was good....

Like I said, the mention and existence of SOME Nephilim does not suddenly mena that ALL were Nephilim, now does it? The Bible certainly does not say that they all were, nor does it say that that is the reason why God was grieved. Read it again:

The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.

He was grieved that he made MAN, not that Nephilim came down and had children with man. There is a difference that your version does not account for. Try again.

I unnderstand that 400 year od Yoda passed by on his way to see Skywalker and waved his hand past all the animals and they becamed pacified.

Fucking YZF is getting his ass sooooooo handed to him in this thread.

ever been to a zoo? is a zoo a "war zone"? it's called cages

lame point #502

Yeah, and have you ever seen the SIZE of a zoo? ACRES, Mark... ACRES. Not some 500 foot long ship. ACRES.

Ever seen a US Navy ship, Mark? An Aircraft Carrier is the biggest military ship, it houses 6,000 people in 1000 feet, they are completely cramped, and generally DO NOT EAT EACH OTHER. "2 of every animal" would be fucking impossible.

Oh, and tell me this, Mr. Wizard: Where, oh where, did Noah hunt down some polar bears, penguins, etc to ride on this boat? How about Kangaroos? Noah must get around, huh?

in the days of Noah, demons has interbreeded with human women, creating a race of half demon, half human....these were "men of renown", likely capable of incredible feats of strength and power

satan was trying to destroy true humanity, so no true humans would be left on the earth, to be redeemed by the true human Savior....so God wiped them out, and began again with true humans (Noah and his family), although He knew full well sin would go on

sounds science fiction, but this is absolutely what Genesis (and the little epistle of Jude) record

science fiction written by HITLER !!! *

true humans breeding with other races creating a inferior mongrel race that has to be exterminated to preserve the pure bloodlines of true humanity.

* norman spinrad - "The Iron Dream". good book. :D

God brought the animals to the ark, Noah did not "hunt them down"
Noah must've been pretty pissed when God sent the elephants to him, after all the work was done!

So did Noah drop the kangaroos, kowalas, tasmanian devils, etc. off at the big island, or what?

the volume of space in the Ark was 1.5 million cubic feet, equal to tthe capacity of 522 standard railroad box cars....no small vessel, and comparable to many modern ships (or larger)

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/animals.asp

That's all well and good, but guess what? If you have a 10 foot by 10 foot by 800 foot high living space, you're still stuck on 100 square feet, regardless of the fact the volume is 80,000 cubic feet.

If cubic feet was important, don't you think houses would be sold based on that number? Cubic feet are important to fish and birds. Square feet are important to mammals.

The actual square footage would be this 101250, which is based on three decks x length x width. Now, not all of it would be useable space... Why? The walls of the "cages", the support beams of the ship and the hull... It's not like they had steel girders or anything back in those days, Mark... Do you have any idea how ships are built? Bulkheads, the keel, etc, etc... It's impossible to think there were just three open floors.

Then, on top of that, you have to remember that a ship built in those days isn't exactly going to be refined engineering. How much weight could it actually hold without collapsing? How much weight could it hold without sinking? Remember that for something to float, it needs to displace an amount of water equal or greater than it's own weight... At a certain point, shit's gonna start sinking.

more FAQs here http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/noah.asp



God brought the animals to the ark, Noah did not "hunt them down"

So how did God bring polar bears, kangaroos, komodo dragons, penguins, etc over?

most of these questions are addressed by AIG

And if their theories are just as fucking asinine as their blood types drivel, I will have to pass.

So, you admit their theories are asinine?

:)

So, you admit their theories are asinine?

:)
I do.

Mark likes to be owned. It makes him feel all warm n' fuzzy to think that God might see him as a martyr, even though the inescapable truth is that he places himself in that position on purpose.
Heh-heh...Mark thinks he's fooling God! :lol:

AIG is the most logical science based interent origins site there is, because their model of origins is correct

Really? PROVE that their "model" is correct. We'll wait.

does that mean they aren't human? no, they still make errors, but, overall, their articles are excellent

Yeah, their articles are excellent... if the point of the article is to brainwash sheep like you. If, however, you have any knowledge about the subject, like, um, blood types, you see that their articles have holes big enough to sail a supertanker through.

Actually its relevant since, YOU brought up how well AIG is at whatever they do.

oh just shove your blood types stuff right up your ass

no one cares, it's irrelevant

And I'd like you all to meet the real Mark: When he knows he's been thoroughly defeated, he pouts like a little baby. You know, I do have some extra Gerbers stuff left over from when I had to spoon feed my son, if you give me your address, I'll mail it to ya, Marky.

And, it's TOTALLY relevant, because if the story of the creation of man is not true, then none of it is.

it's irrelevant...wholly irrelevant to the topic of origins

And again, who said anything about proving or disproving the origin of man? I'm simply pointing out that the story of Adam and Eve is impossible. Nothing more, nothing less.

it's like a little kid holding up a penny and saying "I'm rich! I have all the money in the world!"...and I'm sick of you yapping about it like the punk you are

if and when you get a response from AIG, I'll listen to you again on this matter, but you don't have the balls (and you're too lazy) to send them a letter outlining your "exceptions" to their article

stick to your programmed lab work, "wizard" :roll:

Mark, I don't have "exceptions" to their article... I think the whole thing is bullshit. I think that it's a well written article, with a little bit of science (carefully chosen, of course, to back up their position) and an awful lot of smoke and mirrors to try to keep the little sheep like YOU in line.

Also, you seem to be losing control of yourself again around here... "Mr. Epileptic Seizure", "you're a little punk"...

How about a nice week long vacation from the forum? :D

Really? PROVE that their "model" is correct. We'll wait.



Somebody grab us an assload of Snickers bars, we're not going anywhere for a while.

Aight I'll brb with the snickers.

Ok, I'm back Jesus paid for them. :D

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/homenugget_00/Jesus_snickers.jpg

Old I know but perfect timing for it.

And I'd like you all to meet the real Mark: When he knows he's been thoroughly defeated, he pouts like a little baby. You know, I do have some extra Gerbers stuff left over from when I had to spoon feed my son, if you give me your address, I'll mail it to ya, Marky.

And, it's TOTALLY relevant, because if the story of the creation of man is not true, then none of it is.


Come on now--everyone knows that poor widdle innocent Marky is always goaded into these things....the fact is, you must be 90% at fault here!!

:bigthumb:

Seriously though....this is what happens when you debate with someone that doesnt have the balls to face his actions....Marky is nothing more than a lying hypocrite. Funny how this was all relevant to the issue when he THOUGHT he had a clue....

so Marky--heading to Fret 113, 116, or 118 on Sunday? Or is it Fret 120?

.....

what makes you think I already havent???

hmmmm......

well, what does that thread have to do with anything, moron?? I hardly posted any of your PERSONAL INFORMATION. YOU, on the other hand, have run around telling people your full name, and posting about where you work! You have posted your specific college, and when you went there. DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK, YOU FUCKING TOOL, THAT I DID ANYTHING ALONG THOSE LINES? You are such a jackass....

WOW, everyone, go look up FRET....it must be some highly personal info on Marky.....what a fucking douche bag you are....

not on this forum, asshole

I posted when I went to school? more lies, psycho jonnie!

If I prove you dead wrong, do I get an apology for your very UN-CHRISTIANLIKE behavior? Or are you just going to be a douche again???

I am serious....because I CAN prove you wrong.....

answer the question--do I get an apology if I do?

why not?? Dont have the humility to face your fuckups?? That's Christianity 101, is it not?? hmmm.....

here, you lying hypocrite--let's take a look at exactly when you told us you went to school....

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=101931&postcount=92

Michigan Tech University...I am a 15 year professional engineer ya know

Well, using a little common sense, something you dont have, it is simple.....you have already told us your age more than once, so we can combine that with this "15 years" thing. That means that you received your degree more than 15 years ago, wouldnt ya agree, freak?

So, we know when you went to school, and considering the length of time it takes to get that degree, it becomes obvious that ANYONE HERE can easily pick out at least one year that you were at that college. THEN, you provided the actual name of the school!!!

You lose, liar. And dont think that God wasnt watching this distinct lack of anything even remotely resembling humility on your part. Like I always tell you--you cant fool everyone, Marky.....

lol

you're such an idiot

how do you know when I got my PE?

Actually, YOU are the idiot here.....like I said, try using some common sense.

1--There is NO WAY that you couold work as a professional engineer until you have that degree. You just told us that you have been one for 15 years, so that is a very logical starting place.

2--you have also already posted on this forum that you are 39 years old, IIRC. That means that you first began working as a professional engineer at the age of 24. IT IS CALLED SIMPLE MATHEMATICS YOU RETARD.....:blah:

3--SO....that gives you about six years between high school graduation and becoming a professional engineer....again, SIMPLE MATHEMATICS, you loser. Like I said, ANYONE HERE can easily pick at least one year that you were at that school.

How can someone so "educated" be so fucking stupid?:bigthumb:

just to make it clear exactly what you said, because your short term memory SUCKS, and you're a complete asshole that loves to play fast and loose with the facts

I know exactly what I said....and you DID tell people when you went there. FACE IT--no one goes to college for an engineering degree, and then sits on their ass for five years after getting it, and THEN decides to go work in their chosen field! OBVIOUSLY, you went looking for a job in your field either close to graduation or afterwards, and obviously you found it! YOU gave all the necessary info, shitferbrains....

stop playing your bullshit games, you've been owned....you claimed I stated WHEN, specifically, I attended school...PERIOD....that's what you said

Wrong again....I NEVER ONCE used the word "specifically" in that statement. An engineering degree, and you cant even read, or do simple math??? I said that you told us when you went to school....and you did. What if you went to college for sheep-shearing, for example, and didnt get your PE until, say, 8 years ago?? YOU told us the only info needed to make it happen, scooter....without you opening your big mouth, no one would have known....hmmm......dont blame me because you are a complete tool, mmkay pumpkin???

WOW...they must grow them dumb as a box of shit up at that college......

:owned:

liar!


I can just hear you now....

..Did NOT!

..Did TOO!!

..Did NOT!!!

..Did TOO!!!!

Grow the fuck up already, youre supposed to be a grown man??? You got caught in a lie--fucking shut up, put on your big girl panties, grab some cream for that hurtin pussy and get the hell over yourself....

God must be so proud....you are such a failure....

Liar, huh? Let's see who the liar is....

Remember this??

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=100004&postcount=191

jonnie is on permanent ignore

HMMM....I'd say that one didnt quite work out the way you planned there, sport....:rlaugh:

How about this one??

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=99449&postcount=126

I agree, I shouldn't have said those things to jon, in my anger...I was wrong, and I apologized to him

but he's still an annoying jerk, and he's on my permanent ignore list

All this useless bullshit about how you are the innocent victim, and how "the other guy" cant function without your attention....pure horse shit.

How about this??

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=98138&highlight=ignore#post98138

I'm going to be putting you on ignore very soon because I'm tired of the endless do-loop of your babbling crap....

HMMMM.....whadamatta, grasshoppa?? Apparently, you grew tired of being "tired"....liar....

Maybe this will ring a bell??

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=99832&postcount=154


oh wait....jonnie is on ignore now....things are looking up...I can't tell you how nice it is not to have to read his babbling windbag garbage ever again

So sorry that you once more failed in your grand quest to take over the world....better luck next time, oh dishonest one...

But enough about me....let's look elsewhere....and when we do, we find:

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=100605&postcount=3

what I REALLY need to do is ignore both you and jon....

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=101169&postcount=33

well, not anymore, Dennis, you're now on my ignore list

Man....you at least lasted a week or two ignoring me....but you could not even make it a day on that one!! WHO is the liar?? Thanks for playing, sport, I think we all can see the answer to that one....

no, jackass, I did not do the same thing at all. You tried to make a serious effort to label me the problem here. you refuse to accept even a shred of responsibility for your fuckups. Ignoring you is one thing--I did NOT run around threatening to ignore you for days or weeks on end, like it was some kind of dark threat. You whip out the "I'm gonna ignore you..." bullshit all the fucking time now!! First me, then Dennis, and then derfman....who's next, asshole??? You are STUCK on STOOPID when it comes to this ignore crap...that is HARDLY the same as what I did.

Thanks for playing, dont let it hit ya where the dog shoulda bit ya, roid boy

you were, are, and always will be the problem

you're a complete asshole

Is that a complete lack of humility, honesty, and the balls needed to own up to your shit, followed immediately by more of your favorite "jr high profanity" that we see????

Good going!!! Now, run along and pretend to be a Christian about it, Marky....I am sure that God wont EVER grow tired of forgiving your sins, even though He knows that your heart is a very dark place in truth.....

"dark threat"? what the heck does that mean?

Hey, dont look at me--YOU are the idiot that throws it around like we are all supposed to tremble into compliance with your wishes!!! YOU are the moron that keeps threatening to do this, first to me, then Dennis, and the latest one, derfman(unless I forgot someone else you "threatened to ignore"....LMMFAO)

Sorry, jackoff, but no one here gives a shit if you ignore everyone....we also dont give a shit if you pretend to, threaten repeatedly to, or any other variation of this tactic. You are nothing but a spoiled little bitch of a brat who whines like a first grader when he doesnt get his way. ohh, ohh, "I'm gonna put you on ignore...." I can just feel the fear that the trembling masses experience at the mere utter of those words from your keyboard....

loser...

at least come up with something original for once, psycho jonnie

This, coming from the same guy whose favorite reply when he knows he's lost is "fuck you"???

Better luck next time, champ.....

and to top it all off, you even confirmed my last statement in that post!!!!

GOOD JOB!!!! you get a gold star!!!!

Alright, back to your corners, come out in the next thread at the bell.