Saw a guy on the highway today with the bumper sticker of:

If you want to stop terrorism,
Then stop terrorizing.

And you know, I actually thought to myself, "He's kinda got a point."

I mean, other than creating the Vietnam Conflict of the new generation, what has Dubya really accomplished? He's sent a lot of soldiers to Iraq, cost a lot of people their sons, daughters, spouses, Mommies and Daddies, but what has he actually accomplished? At what point do you just suck it up, say, "Wow, I fucked up, I'm sorry, we're leaving"?

There were probably secret objectives that have not been publicly disclosed. Considering that the premises for invasion were:

1. Iraq had weapons of mass destruction

2. Iraq was harboring terrorists

3. Iraq had ties to OBL

Have any of these claims been proven? I don't think so. There were other objectives.

I mean, other than creating the Vietnam Conflict of the new generation, what has Dubya really accomplished?

Not enough to warrant a high approval rating, it seems...

Everyday I'm left wondering how most of these high officials remain in office... If this was any other sort of job (which it is, despite the world-changing potential the position holds), having such a shitty approval rating/proven poor performance in declared goals/general disregard for opinions and requirements from management/etc. would have you waiting for unemployment checks...

But for some reason, the American public hasn't let go of their sense of pride/patriotism nor has gained a big enough pair to tell the fuckers off and demand their resignations. :dunno:

Sure, it's only a few months till he has to leave, but with the way things are going do you really think shit can't hit the fan in that small amount of time?

pah. Last time 'round, his SCUDS couldn't even reach Iraq's own borders, nevermind hit targets in other countries. This time the iraqi military didn't even have that. And if Isreal can fend off a coalition of Arab countries, including Saudi Arabia with all that American hardware, I'm pretty sure they could defend against Iraq and their one-slingshot-and-two-stones-per-man army.

To me the real agenda was The Message; "If ya going to attack one of the Big Boys again, don't forget we'll just come up with another stupid excuse to go over and fuck up 2 more of your countries."

except it was Saudis, not Iraqis, that attacked the US. Saudi Arabia remains an ally. And Iraq was secular, unlike Afghanistan's fundamentalist dictatorship. But then Khazakstan and others are fundamentalist dictatorships and receive US support.

So - what was The Message?

Al-Qaida is a creature from Saudi. I give you that. But it can not survive existing in its own homeland unless the homeland is ran like or better than the Taliban. Saudis attacked the United States? They are partially responsible but hard to prove.

I think it was out of convenience and tactics that we took over Afghanistan and Iraq. Look where it is at compare to Iran and China. With the whole 7th fleet at Iran's back door, we created 3 fronts to cause pressure to Iran. One or two for China. So the message is, if you are going to fuck with USA or its allies (that means protecting the best place to hunt in the world (Canada)), we will send millions of YZFs and ARKs to steamroll over their claptrap and change their culture.

Saudis attacked the United States? They are partially responsible but hard to prove.

Look up how many of the hijackers were Saudi nationals. Then ask yourself why they were receiving money form the wife of the Saudi ambassador to the united States.

And there's no pressure on Iran. It traded oil to China in exchange for military defence from same. You invade Iran, you have 20 million Chinese troops with AKs in your face wanting to know why you're disrupting the flow of their oil.

And there's no pressure on Iran. It traded oil to China in exchange for military defence from same. You invade Iran, you have 20 million Chinese troops with AKs in your face wanting to know why you're disrupting the flow of their oil.
Very good points. But we'll take the oil for ourselves and sell it cheaper to china. That's something the Iranians must consider. Is china really their friend?

Look up how many of the hijackers were Saudi nationals. Then ask yourself why they were receiving money form the wife of the Saudi ambassador to the united States. That is how secret this operation had to be. Very nice observation.

Read the signs of the times. This turd's about to float down the bowl. OT and NT both indicate God pick the rulers. What we should be doing is praying for those poor in spirit on both sides.

I apologize for hijacking this thread into a spiritual discussion. Even though biblically I'm right.

Is china really their friend?

"friends"? The chinese government does'nt work like that. What we have with China is a buisness relationship. The kind where every once in a while we have drinks after work(next olympics).

If a Chinese terrorist org. attacks us on the same level as 9/11 and those terroist are ex-factory workers who felt they were held under the thumb of an "overseas shadow corp/gov, we can rest assured its not that they "hate us for our freedom"

Bush good = Tax Cuts, eazing the Clinton Assualt Weapon ban, choking on pretzel, falling off bike.
Bush bad = Iraq war, lying to american people, being an idiot.

With that said, I think it is clear that Iraq had elements of terrorist organizations under Saddam's watch, and i even think that it was good that we went there, BUT (and here is the kicker) I think the war could have been handled much better.

All in all, I would say Bush has done more to hurt the country than help it. We are in a VERY BAD situation now; we cut and run and we look like pussies...moral victory for Terrorists...OR we stay there until the job is done (or a decade like vietnam and then we ultimatley cut and run in an 'honorable' way) and kill likely 10k+ American servicemen and women and countless innocent Iraqis.

Personally, I think since we fucked up going there and stating the above...we should be there but have buttsecks (figuratively of course) with other countries to commit to send troops, money and even prostitutes for our troops.