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BATMAN 06-15-2006, 09:38 AM Groups opposed to circumcision are watching the case of an 8-year-old suburban Chicago boy whose divorced parents are fighting in court over whether he should have the procedure.
The child’s mother wants him circumcised to prevent recurring, painful inflammation she says he’s experienced during the past year. But the father says the boy is healthy and circumcision, which removes the foreskin of the penis, is an unnecessary medical procedure that could cause him long-term physical and psychological harm.
“The child is absolutely healthy,” the father said during a break in a court hearing on the matter Wednesday. “I do not want any doctor to butcher my son.”
The mother testified that her son has had five bouts of painful inflammation and has begged her to help him. Her son cannot wear underwear or jeans during the bouts and is comfortable only in loose-fitting pajamas, she said.
“My child was in the bathroom crying. He asked me to come in because his penis did not look normal,” she said, describing one of the episodes.
The couple’s 2003 divorce decree gave the father the right to offer input on medical decisions. Earlier this year, he sued to block the surgery and Cook County Judge Jordan Kaplan ordered the mother not to have the boy circumcised until he could hear from both parents and the opinions of doctors who’ve examined the boy.
The Associated Press is not naming the parents to protect the child’s privacy. The father was born and raised in Poland. The mother is from Slovakia.
The case reflects a national debate over the medical necessity of circumcision. In 1999, the American Academy of Pediatrics reversed its support for routine infant circumcision, citing questionable benefits and medical and anecdotal evidence that circumcised men have less penile sensitivity.
http://www.danheller.com/images/Topics/Circumcision/circumcision-06-big.jpg
More opt against the surgery
David Llewellyn, an Atlanta attorney who specializes in circumcision cases, is helping the father’s attorneys without a fee. He called the surgery “a bizarre American custom.”
Most U.S. newborn boys are circumcised before they leave the hospital. But a growing number of parents are opting against the surgery. The percentage of male babies circumcised has fallen from an estimated 90 percent in 1970 to about 60 percent today.
Roger Saquet, director of the Non-Circumcision Information Center in Belmont, Mass., said he heard about the case from others who promote leaving boys’ foreskins intact.
“I can’t imagine an 8-year-old boy to be forced to go to a hospital and have his genitals mutilated,” he said.
Tracy Rizzo, the mother’s attorney, said religion, not medicine, is the father’s concern. Rizzo said the father disagrees with circumcision because he resents the fact that his ex-wife has remarried a Jewish man. The mother lives with her new husband, her son and her husband’s son from a previous relationship in Northbrook.
The father, an Arlington Heights resident, denies he’s concerned about the religion of his ex-wife’s husband.
The mother testified Wednesday that she wanted the boy circumcised when he was a newborn, but her then-husband refused. She quoted him as saying at the time: “There is no way my son is going to be circumcised. He is not a Jew.”
But the judge would not allow Alan Toback, an attorney for the father, to ask the new husband, who also testified Wednesday, if he is circumcised.
“We’re not going there,” the judge said.
For Jews, a ritual circumcision, or bris, is a sacred covenant with God, commanded in Genesis. Jews have been circumcising their sons for thousands of years.
In a March 1999 policy statement that was reaffirmed this year, the American Academy of Pediatrics said there are “potential medical benefits” to circumcision, including a reduction in risk of urinary tract infections. However, existing data “are not sufficient to recommend routine ... circumcision” of newborns, the statement says.
The group estimates that 1.2 million newborn males are circumcised in the United States a year at a cost of between $150 million and $270 million.
Dr. David Hatch, a pediatric urologist who testified, said he performs 250 circumcisions a year, including about 20 on boys between the ages of 5 and 10.
Hatch testified his own three sons are uncircumcised because he does not think it is normally medically necessary. But he said he would recommend circumcision for a son with a history of recurring inflammation or infection.
Kaplan declined to decide the case Wednesday, ordering both sides to submit additional arguments in writing.
Say No To Pistons 06-15-2006, 10:43 AM awhhh thats freaky... circumcision @ 8...
BATMAN 06-15-2006, 11:45 AM to punish the kid post cut........... give him porn.
He'll be screaming horny and learn to associate pain and porn.
that will re-wire his head for sure.
AmishBoy 06-15-2006, 03:14 PM It’s a stupid unnecessary and barbaric thing to do to a baby. I still have mine and I’m glad I do.
Why would women prefer a circumcised penis? When it’s erect you can’t tell the difference. The only reason would be having the foreskin gone makes the penis rough and cause it to have less feeling making sex last longer. But you can last as long as you want to if you do it right.
As far as GOD goes I’m not a Jew and I eat coacher and the bible clearly states that gentiles are not bound to Mosaic law.
BATMAN 06-15-2006, 03:48 PM it's a perfectly healthy and beneficial procedure
otherwise God would not have prescribed it for the Jews...many of the civil and ceremonial aspects of the O.T. law also have practical/beneficial health effects, after all, God is the ultimate physician, He created the machine
don't most women prefer it as well?
God promoting cutting:
admits that he fucked up in designing man in his infinite wisdom
it was prescribed for village idiots that didn't wash. These are the same village idiots that eat sushi pork.
Germans and most of the world are uncut.
It's the religious nuts that tend to promote such savage procedures.
Not much different when africans put plates in their mouths and bones through their nose.....
BATMAN 06-15-2006, 03:53 PM it's funny to hear the arguments for pro-cutting.
- keeps it clean (aka - cuz he too lazy to wash his dick, and probably the rest of him). That's as logical as removing women's labias so that they can have their clit heads jaunting right out in the world.
More often than not, the promoters are those guys that had theirs cut and will NEVER know the feeling of havin a part of them intact. Deep down inside many feel that they didn't have a WORD in their violation.
AmishBoy 06-15-2006, 04:59 PM God promoting cutting:
admits that he fucked up in designing man in his infinite wisdom
it was prescribed for village idiots that didn't wash. These are the same village idiots that eat sushi pork.
Germans and most of the world are uncut.
It's the religious nuts that tend to promote such savage procedures.
Not much different when africans put plates in their mouths and bones through their nose.....
LOL
sushi pork
AmishBoy 06-15-2006, 05:41 PM what the heck are you talking about??? [/url]
Rough, as in hasn't been protected by a foreskin.
that is "kosher"
Gentiles are absolutely bound by the Mosaic Law, just not the civil and ceremonial aspects of it http://www.bartleby.com/59/1/mosaiclaw.html
Oh yeah "kosher"
Well that is what I meant "Mosaic law" as it pertains to circumcision.
BATMAN 06-16-2006, 04:25 PM on the contrary, it was intended to be a physical sign of a spiritual truth: the cutting away of the flesh from the spirit, which is why the term "uncircumcised hearts" is used many times in the O.T
Jeremiah 9
"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will punish all who are circumcised only in the flesh- Egypt, Judah, Edom, Ammon, Moab and all who live in the desert in distant places. For all these nations are really uncircumcised, and even the whole house of Israel is uncircumcised in heart."
God knew what He was doing by prescribing the procedure, and designed the body so the procedure could be prescribed for the purpose of that sign
http://www.circs.org/library/moses/
Keep telling urself that......
BATMAN 06-16-2006, 04:28 PM what the heck are you talking about???
that is "kosher"
Gentiles are absolutely bound by the Mosaic Law, just not the civil and ceremonial aspects of it http://www.bartleby.com/59/1/mosaiclaw.html
no foreskin = thicker skin on that nazi purple helmet, which in turns reduces sensation.
foreskin = u can fuck in water and not worry about water washing out pussy oil.
The dick skin acts as a buffer so she won't get her pussy walls erased.
beefhole 06-16-2006, 06:53 PM It's obviously there for a reason!
Say No To Pistons 06-16-2006, 07:37 PM god <3 teh foreskin.
Tofuball 06-16-2006, 09:18 PM it's a perfectly healthy and beneficial procedure
otherwise God would not have prescribed it for the Jews...many of the civil and ceremonial aspects of the O.T. law also have practical/beneficial health effects, after all, God is the ultimate physician, He created the machine
don't most women prefer it as well?
I am interested, what are the health benifits? I've never really heard one that held water. I personally don't think that it really affects health either way.
no foreskin = thicker skin on that nazi purple helmet, which in turns reduces sensation.
foreskin = u can fuck in water and not worry about water washing out pussy oil.
The dick skin acts as a buffer so she won't get her pussy walls erased.
Actually, a lot of people think that the origional removal of the 'foreskin' was just to clip the very tip of the foreskin off, just above the 'nazi purple helmet.'
Tofuball 06-16-2006, 09:19 PM god <3 teh foreskin.
Made me think of this (http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/choccy/)
JPAccord 06-16-2006, 10:39 PM I had mine done when I was born, I really don't think it could matter too much one way or another, besides the way it looks.
Say No To Pistons 06-16-2006, 11:12 PM Made me think of this (http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/choccy/)
wtf was that?
BATMAN 06-17-2006, 03:06 AM you're beyond hope....
oh?
week comeback from one that is beyond hope?
just admit it, u'll never know what it will be like to be intact.
And I'm not talking about the brain.....
Vector86 06-18-2006, 04:30 PM child penis FTW, I seriously didn't need to see that today.
seanbrowning 06-19-2006, 12:12 AM Ew.
beefhole 06-19-2006, 06:58 PM Actually, women don't give a shit as young as you are hitting it proper. Period.
Jonno Ks 06-19-2006, 07:33 PM what a bunch of garbage, as I said before, women prefer circumcised males...period
+1
i knew girls personally that found out a guy wasnt snipped and ended it.
but maybe only the girls that dislike it are the ones that talk about it.
and that pic of the procedure was not FTW
beefhole 06-19-2006, 07:53 PM It's probably because they never even had it... face it. No matter what dick you got, if you suck in bed, you're finished.
Say No To Pistons 06-19-2006, 08:27 PM ^ ya hear that batman?
Say No To Pistons 06-19-2006, 09:57 PM if you dont like it... then get out.
BATMAN 06-20-2006, 10:09 AM what a bunch of garbage, as I said before, women prefer circumcised males...period
Nature put the foreskin there, it should remain there, unless it be absolutely necessary for it to be removed.
Nature didn't 'do' anything. The foreskin evolved. It is rather unusual among animal foreskins in that phimosis in humans after puberty is quite common, whereas in other mammals it is just about unknown. It is also unique in that once it has been retracted and the man is sexually active it frequently fails to cover the glans penis. (In my surveys almost half of the uncircumcised men had a partly or totally bare glans, and a British survey found an even higher figure). This has led to a published hypothesis that the human foreskin has evolved into an equivalent of the female hymen - an obstacle to coitus that helps to prevent intercourse in the immediate post-puberty years. Once that barrier has been overcome the foreskin is redundant. (The change to bipedal locomotion removed any need for a foreskin as protection, even before the adoption of clothes).
One could also suggest that circumcision (at puberty, not birth) is as old as Homo sapiens. It is practiced by many of the most primitive peoples on earth, including Australian Aborigines who have lived on this island continent, with relatively little contact with other groups, for a largish part of the known evolutionary history of the species! So our foreskin could actually have evolved to be cut off at the age when sexual activity became permitted.
This is speculation, of course, but there are pictures of, and writings about, circumcision going back 5000 years so it is definitely part of the history and evolution of the human race over a very long time.
Civilized man is not living in a state of primitive nature. We cut our hair and nails, and shave our beards, and wear clothes. If someone contracts TB or pneumonia do we say "This is natural" and let them die? Of course we don't.
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/sex-cut-uncut.htm
BATMAN 06-20-2006, 10:10 AM my gosh this forum goes downhill more every day, what an amazing collection of morons
many have stated that is the case with religious zealots like urself........
aznpoopy 06-20-2006, 10:15 AM i wonder how accurately you can guess who is snipped and who isnt in this thread based on what they are arguing?
beefhole 06-20-2006, 06:49 PM your mastery of the english language is astounding
my gosh this forum goes downhill more every day, what an amazing collection of morons
You don't need to master the English language to get the point across. Apparently you're a complete moron too for a few reasons:
The usage of the word 'gosh'
Improper capitalization of key words.
Improper punctuation.
Finally, you're posting within this message board. Hence, it makes you a moron.
SpartanTS 06-21-2006, 12:11 AM I say cut it off!
BTW, the title was Fight over boys circumcision, not about whether or not our penises evolved over time.
You guys go over the top some days. Sometimes it's humerous, but this is just plain stupid.
BATMAN 06-21-2006, 01:34 AM u talk as if u have beaucoup credence, when ur "logic" has been pointed out by many from the likes of me, Manntis, jimlab, and others.
Yet u fail to reconize that and blanket urself with religious excrements.
Ur smucking fart........
Say No To Pistons 06-21-2006, 10:35 AM why does every thread turn into some kinda god flame fest?
Brokenone 06-21-2006, 05:01 PM why does every thread turn into some kinda god flame fest?
Because YZF always has done this crap.
beefhole 06-21-2006, 06:49 PM capitalization of "key words"?? what the heck are you talking about?
what an idiot
Well, that proves my point.
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