BERLIN (AFP) - A German archaeologist says he has found relics of "humanity's first war" in the north east of Syria in the form of balls of stone used as ammunition in the 4th century BC, the Die Zeit newspaper says in its edition due for publication on Thursday.


"We have there the oldest example of an offensive war," said Clemens Reichel, who is leading an archaeological dig in the ancient city of Hamoukar, on the border with Iraq, for the University of Chicago.

Reichel said that almost 6,000 years ago the city, whose fortifications were three metres (ten feet) thick, was besieged and reduced to ashes probably by attackers from southern Mesopotamia.

"It was not a little skirmish which took place here," said Reichel, who has been leading the dig since 2003. He spoke of a real "combat zone", to which the some 2,300 balls of stone and burned clay discovered at the main part of the site bear witness.

interesting. wonder what war it was. balls of stone... like shot put? thrown by hand?

calling it our 'first war' seems a bit presumptuous on the part of the archaeologist though.

Good first thought. David and Goliath era?

Welcome back YZF!
I thought this was an interesting find. A large city that was hidden for 6000 years is exciting to me. This is like walking in Abraham's footsteps. Might find scrolls in vaults. We'll just have to wait and see if it has anything to do with the bible.

Correct. We'll have to give this one time as well to get closer to the dates. One would hope that our 'time' methods have improved since then. Especially when someone's rep in on the line.

Everything has a place in time. A city in 4000bc isnt far fetched. I think your concerns are geared toward what events discounts the bible. i.e. Like the lack of evidence of the Flood, which easily discounts the Bible with no effort.

I filter these false dates through Biblical (true) time scales

creation occurred about 4000 B.C., so the first major Pre-Flood cities could not have been any earlier than several hundred years after Adam...granted the population of the middle east would have expanded very quickly with people living to be 900+ years old and fathering children at old ages

interesting some of the ruins of some of these major cities are now under the ocean, this also fits the Biblical Flood model

one could only imagine what secrets lie beneath the ocean floors across the world

I googled 'major cities are now under the ocean'. no hits. What gives? So I'll just write that off as a typo, being that we are friends and all. Maybe ask your source to take a drug test.

Hard to pin point actual creation date. Like you said, their life spans were out of control. no mention on time frame between god given instructions to the young couple, to the actual time to eat the fruit. Who knows, it could have been a thousand more years. i suppose you can live longer being without sin. So to find a 4kbc ruin still doesnt discount anything biblical. Just an old ass structure (They will find bones) (They will carbon date 'em) (They will make the religious community call foul)

the exact date, plus or minus a few thousand years

fixed

To claim an exact date using the bible as a time tool is folly. You need science help. thus, carbon dating. For no one knows how long ancient people lived, the gap between children, etc...? Even the death of christ is approximated. I even wrote in here about conflicts on when jesus was born.

Reality check here for our xtain friends: Regarding our ancestors, living over 50 years is rare. When you are talking about a 900 year old man, it means these guys were legends and were also bunyonized. Hardships shorten lifespans.

Now the guy who may have claimed to be over 900 years old probably meant he felt like he was that old with all the children he made. I just dont understand how these guys lived past 30 having more than 3 kids.

your ignorance is shining brightly here, once again

the PRECISE number of years from each generation in recorded in Genesis
oh? And no bible quote to back up your claim? Wonder why that is?

Can't argue there. Ah well, better take out me calculator to double check. (Students fail to do this all the time). Hmmmm, AH! Only 362 years has passed from the flood, to terah's settlement of the city, Haran. So with that passage alone, using THE PRECISE number of years from each generation recorded in Genesis, we have a 'mother of all gaps' of 3638 years leading to the birth of Jesus. Can genesis fill it up? please post more for your preciseness.

Shem is still alive

D- (Student in danger of failing)

I googled 'major cities are now under the ocean'. no hits. What gives?



hahahhahahahhahaha

the real question is how much of the sea floor has really been explored?

http://eaglesdisobey.org/UnderwaterRuins.htm

I thought this was a cool find. I think the underwater pictures are convincing. No maps of the site after 15 years? WTF! red flag!

Too bad for you it holds a lot of drama with a host of sceptics, whom think the steps were made naturally. Moreover, it offers an underlying conflict, suggesting another creation date beyond 8000 bc.

those pics were cool.

I really think we can know everything. Its just a matter of time. If we are dynamic, we'll have all the time in the world.

you live in a delusion of faith in human wisdom

omg the irony

Small issue. Where is the execution record of Jesus Christ?
There is a very convenient story explaining the lack of a birth record, but would not a person of that sort get some sort of death record? You know, tried by some of the highest courts and what not?
I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I just want to see it.

yzf is right, of course...

1st century AD. i doubt their record keeping or system of justice was as 'developed' as ours is now. wasn't jesus tried by mob? haha.

Lost records? Not even by a stretch...

The area in and surrounding Jerusalem served, in fact, as the center of education and record keeping for the Jewish people.

The Romans, of course, also kept many records. Moreover, the gospels mention scribes many times, not only as followers of Jesus but the scribes connected with the high priests.

And as for historians, there lived plenty at the time who had the capacity and capability to record, not only insignificant gossip, but significant events, especially from a religious sect who drew so much popular attention through an allegedly famous and infamous Jesus.

Take, for example, the works of Philo Judaeus who's birth occurred in 20 BC and died 50 AD. From what I read, he lived as the greatest Jewish-Hellenistic philosopher and historian of the time and lived in the area of Jerusalem during the alleged life of Jesus. He wrote detailed accounts of the Jewish events that occurred in the surrounding area. Yet not once, in all of his volumes of writings, do we read a single account of a Jesus.

Are you insinuating Jerusalem was a concentration camp headed by the Romans?

I am amazed ANY records of ANYTHING exist from that area and time period, after what the Catholics did.

are you insinuating that maintained meticulous records of everyone they butchered?

I think its possible. Probably with their crimes as well. Especially political opponents like the 'King of Jews', whom caused a stir among the masses. Recording such a thing is used as a trophey of deeds done well as one example. Not only for the Romans but also for the Jewish leaders as well.

I am amazed ANY records of ANYTHING exist from that area and time period, after what the Catholics did.

What did the Catholics do?

in fact, the Roman Catholic church banned the scriptures during the middle ages, only the Pope could access/read the Bible...

ONLY the pope ?

ok, so how does that oppose the biblical philosophy of Hidden Truths ?

ok, so how does that oppose the biblical philosophy of a Lone Prophet ?

possibly the Church banned TRANSLATIONS ?

how is the effort to PRESERVE the ORIGINAL translation unaltered objectionable ?




and they later attempted to re-write it to incorporate their many false doctrines

since they wrote it in the first place, what's the problem with updates ?

you rewrite the versions that you use to incorperate new understandings, yet when they do it it is evil.


what a bunch of toxic smoke and broken mirrors that whole christianity system is [/QUOTE]

in terms of access to reading the scripture, there is no such doctrine (quite the opposite actually)

what I actually read in the bible is lots of stuff about PREACHING the word, like what jesus and the apostles did, spreading the word by TELLING people the good news.

which is what the catlick priests were doing, preserving the holy scripture from contamination, like the stone tablets in the ARK in the sanctum, and spreading the word exactly the way jesus did, orally.




"the biblical philosophy of a Lone Prophet ?"

again, what doctrine?

the pope is a construction of the Roman system

moses, abraham, david, jesus, paul... one strong figurehead to stand between gods fury and dumb people and tell the people what god wants them to do.



"possibly the Church banned TRANSLATIONS ?"


it went beyond that

By 500 AD the Bible had been translated into over 500 languages. Just one century later, by 600 AD, it has been restricted to only one language: the Latin Vulgate! The only organized and recognized church at that time in history was the Catholic Church of Rome, and they refused to allow the scripture to be available in any language other than Latin. Those in possession of non-Latin scriptures would be executed!

what I said, no translations.
learning to read latin was NOT a crime, nor was owning an official latin bible.

preserving the text.



common myth

the scriptures were completed about 90 A.D., before Constantine.

sure, but the BIBLE didn't exist until Constantine was inspired to CREATE it.

like electing a politician by controlling who gets on the ballot, he CHOSE which of the flood of competing "religious writings" would be oficially recognised as the true word and included into the bible.

as evidence I point to the NON included gosples that managed to survive the fires of purification

Honegod, since when was making up facts an acceptable form of debate?

Honegod, since when was making up facts an acceptable form of debate?


???

I may be wrong but I don't think I am just making stuff up, without SAYING that I am making it up sort of thing,

what are you talking about.

Honegod, since when was making up facts an acceptable form of debate?

so I went back and reread what I posted, all I found that MIGHT qualify was me talking about constantine inventing the bible, it that it ?

if so you are right, constantine did NOT personally create the bible, he just hired some other folks to build the sort of bible he wanted, similar to king james.

did the notion of gathering and selecting a collection of writings about god to become the literal Word of god originate with constantine ?
dunno.
but it EFFECTIVLY did.

so is it making stuff up to say he did ?