http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/31/news/gas_prices/index.htm?cnn=yes


Experts: $4 a gallon gas coming soon
Pricing analysts say consumers can expect even higher prices at the pump.
August 31, 2005: 12:46 PM EDT
By Grace Wong, CNN/Money staff writer

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Consumers can expect retail gas prices to rise to $4 a gallon soon but whether they stay there depends on the long-term damage to oil facilities from Hurricane Katrina, oil and gas analysts said Wednesday.

"There's no question gas will hit $4 a gallon," Ben Brockwell, director of pricing at the Oil Price Information Service, said. "The question is how high will it go and how long will it last?"

OPIS tracks wholesale and retail oil prices and provides pricing information for AAA's daily reports on fuel prices.

Brockwell said with gasoline prices now exceeding $3 a gallon before even reaching the wholesale level, it "doesn't take a genius" to expect retail prices to hit $4 a gallon soon.

"Consumers haven't seen the worst of it yet," Brockwell said.

He expects consumers in the Southeast and Northeast to be pinched first, following the impact of Hurricane Katrina on the Gulf Coast region.

Katrina pressures gas suppliesKatrina forced operators to close more than a tenth of the country's refining capacity and a quarter of its oil production, which sent gasoline prices surging.

Two major pipelines that supply gasoline to key terminals and distribution centers along the Eastern U.S. were shut down due to power outages caused by the storm. (Video of Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman discussing U.S. plans to tap strategic oil reserve to help refiners -- 4:16. Click here to watch).

Colonial Pipeline said it hopes to be back in partial operation soon, while the date of Plantation Pipeline's restart is not clear. Each day the pipelines are closed, supplies get backlogged and distribution centers must rely on reserves.

"With this kind of hiccup in refinery capacity, in stretched markets like California, you could see over $4 a gallon in gas," Evan Smith, an analyst at U.S. Global Investors, told CNN/Money.

While it's still too early to fully assess the damage caused by Katrina, efforts to build up inventories of crude oil, natural gas and other products like gasoline will be set back by the storm, according to Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at Global Insight.

In a research note, Behravesh laid out a worst-case scenario that puts average prices for regular unleaded gasoline at about $3.50 a gallon for the next four to six months.

"The impact on consumer spending in such a scenario would be very dramatic, cutting the growth rate by as much as 3 percent and pushing real GDP growth in the fourth quarter closer to zero," he wrote.

In a best-case scenario, he forecast retail pump prices to peak at $3 a gallon for a couple of months, but then fall back to around $2.50 by year-end.

The nationwide average price for a gallon of regular unleaded hit a fresh high of $2.619 Wednesday, according to AAA, the largest U.S. motorist organization, formerly known as the American Automobile Association.

Average gasoline prices have gained 40 percent in the last year.

Prices for crude oil are also up sharply and are currently hovering near record highs just under $70 a barrel.

we're still only paying $2.41 around here.

2.60 something at the station across the street from my house....

2.60 something at the station across the street from my house....
unless your home now and just looked, betcha the price has been hiked by the time you get home :wiggle:

2.69 this morning. I'm not complaining. If Budweiser cost $35 for a 20 rack, I'd still buy it.

unless your home now and just looked, betcha the price has been hiked by the time you get home :wiggle:

I just filled up there this morning

I think it was 2.67....

3.12 for regular =(
its all bush's fault 4 causing the hurricane :bssmile:

I just filled up there this morning

I think it was 2.67....
all the local places took a 10cent a gallon hike at noon.

A couple of the other forums are saying that their gas prices have jumped as much as 50cents in the last couple hours.


edit: here's one of the quotes...

I work in Indianapolis, IN. On way to work this morning $2.56. Just got back from lunch and it is now $3.19.

I say $5 in the next year.........

luckily rotaries are fuel efficient

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Sup1661/9a48a595.jpg

$2.99.9

Highest Regular Gas Prices in the Last 24 Hours
Price Station Area Time Thanks
4.75 BP Alpharetta Wed
3:37 PM Visitor

Haynes Bridge
3.49 Shell Marietta Wed
3:28 PM Visitor

Roswell & Robinson Rd
3.47 QuikTrip Alpharetta Wed
3:25 PM Visitor

Devore & Haynes Bridge Rd
3.29 PIT SOP PEACHTREE CITY Wed
3:31 PM Visitor

HWY 54
3.29 BP McDonough Wed
2:03 PM daleschmidtsr

Jodeco Rd
3.25 Chevron Marietta Wed
3:37 PM ray4237

Dallas Hwy & Bob Cox Rd.
3.25 Hot Spot Newnan Wed
3:06 PM ToileTales

Greenville St & Sewell Rd
3.19 Chevron Jonesboro Wed
3:29 PM EAGLE267

MOUNT ZION Rd & MOUNT ZION PARKWAY
3.19 Shell Roswell Wed
3:24 PM Visitor

Alpharetta Hwy. & Upper Hembree
3.09 Citgo Alpharetta Wed
3:36 PM Visitor

Main St
3.09 BP Peachtree City Wed
3:35 PM Visitor

Hwy 54E
3.09 Chevron Marietta Wed
3:33 PM Visitor

franklin rd at delk
3.09 Exxon Morrow Wed
3:21 PM EAGLE267

MOUNT ZION BLVD & MOUNT ZION Rd
3.09 BP Peachtree City Wed
3:16 PM Visitor

Hwy 54 & Stevens Entry
3.09 Citgo Atlanta - South Wed
2:50


here are the highest prices in Atlanta today.

3.19 for Premium. Good thing my car takes regular ;)

so does my FD..............until I boost it.

Looks like I'm riding my bicycle for my one mile commute to work.

Public transportation for me :bigthumb:

Thankfully the new apartment will be less then a 1/4 mile to work.

I'll still probably drive though :dunno:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Sup1661/Work%20Safe/71d27246.jpg

pic of ma bike
heh.

It isn't street legal. Its about as far from street legal as you can get right now.

I say $5 in the next year.........
thats what they predict

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/DarkAngelKamui/One%20Liners/69f9facb.jpg

All your income are belong to us :roll:

Someone on the RX7club said that in Atlanta, right now, regular is up to like 5.80 and premium is over 6 dollars!!!

yeah, just read that.....this isn't going to be good:(

Of course this isn't good. That's why it's called a Disaster. If you want to help the fuel problem park the car/truck/SUV and go catch a bus, ride a bike, carpool, etc. Do whatever you can do to conserve. If you want to help with disaster relief then donate money or volunteer. I work in telecom, but we have so few poeple here I'm stuck. In fact I'm the only person in the building.

Gas here was 2.49 /g for regular...

The gas station I stop at on the way to school (30 miles away) each morning had it for 2.29 /g.

This morning they went up to 2.79.....50 cent a gallon overnight......unreal.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050831/capt.wimg10108311828.katrina_oil_wimg101.jpg?x=380&y=278&sig=Rt8UDkZJeQcD0H2MlvfHCA--

The particular place I am speaking of above was OVERLY packed monday and tuesday mornings...people backed up 4 cars in a row at each pump (20 pumps).... inside all of them were buying food products and such...

This morning, the place was like a ghosttown....I was able to walk up and pay for my bagel with no line, when usually I had 10 or so people in front of me, and then 10 behind me....the place was just nuts...

I wonder if they'll decide to lower gas prices hoping to make their money off of their foods?

On my way to work this morning it was about $2.60, by the time I got off it was $2.80. One place was $3.25 half hour later $3.29. Looks like it is time to get a scooter.

http://www.grandparentsonline.net/graphics/razor_scooter/30047.jpg

:bigthumb:
that one would take a long time to get my fat ass 30 miles to work everyday

Around here, some government lady is knocking on the EPA's door to lighten refinement restrictions so they can make 1-3% more gas out of a barrel of oil.

No where did she ask that the government tax portion of the gasoline be lessened.

Bitch. Bet she drives an SUV too.

What makes me mad is that the price jumped 25 cents in one day, but thats not how much more they paid for the gas already in their underground tanks....seems like any slight word that there may be 'shortages' and the places around here jump on it. I think it is 2.99 for regular and mid-grade around here...further north it has hit 3.30 but 15 miles to my west it is still 2.69. Since work is only 5 miles away for me I sent my bicycle to get fixed a while ago

Rudolf Diesel of Germany experimented with many different types of fuel to feed his invention- a compression ignition engine. From coal dust to hemp oil, many products were tried and failed, for various reasons. Too costly, too hard to process, not enough heat to sustain combustion, all were obstacles to be overcome. It appeared that whale oil and vegetable oils, in liquid form, seems to provide the best solution. Whale oil, commonly available in the 1880s and 90s, was expensive though, and he was just about out of money.

Turning to his farmer friends (most of whom laughed at his "engine") he tried to find an alternative to the whale oil. According to legend, one of these friends grew peanuts and had a stock that had gone rancid- even livestock would not eat them. Diesel obtained several cart loads and used an olive press to obtain the yellow oil contained in the nuts.

The Paris World Exposition was soon to arrive and time was running out for Diesel. The prototype engine, along with several hundred gallons of peanut oil was shipped to Paris, installed, and to make a long story short, flabbergasted the crowds. Many people commented they wandered into the area displaying Diesel's engine running because they thought it was a food pavilion (due to the smell of burned peanut oil).

When petroleum oil was discovered in Pennsylvania a few years later, Diesel's engine had progressed far enough to utilize this new sort of waste fuel from lubricating oils and save the peanuts for feed.

Fast forward to the 1930s in Detroit.....

Detroit Diesel Corporation, of Redford (Metro Detroit), Michigan, manufactured engines for America's fledgling trucking industry. In 1936, the 2 stroke, blower scavenged diesel was introduced to the world. For the first time, a high speed (1800RPM), lightweight (wet weight approximately 1100 lbs for the inline 4 cylinder version), high horsepower (127hp) powerplant was available to make the trucking of products to their destination competitive with rail transport.

No longer did manufacturers of goods have to be situated in congested rail head locations of Chicago, Detroit, Trenton, Oklahoma City, etc. They could move to the low income areas of the US, employ these lower cost farmers and further reduce their costs to manufacture their goods.

The success of Detroit Diesel spawned Cummins Engine Company, International Harvester, Caterpillar, and others to start making these high profit engines to power industry.

Fast forward again, to 1985, Moscow, Idaho.....

At the University of Idaho, Moscow agricultural researchers started the first in a series of projects, reaching their first major demonstration to the US Department of Energy with a 1994 Chrysler Corporation-supplied Dodge Ram 3/4 ton pickup- powered by a Cummins 5.9L 6BTA engine. They found that gas and particulate emissions could be reduced with vegetable oil based fuels, which have little sulfur (which leads to acid rain), and, because they are biodegradable, are much safer in case of a spill.

Information from "On Road Testing of Biodiesel-A report of past research activities," University of Idaho, MoscowProduction of biodiesel, according to the University of Idaho report, is very efficient, with 4.2 BTUs of liquid gained for each BTU used in production and processing. They also found that, if "farmers were allowed to grow rapeseed as an energy crop on set-aside or CRP acreage, BIODIESEL would be used in agriculture. If the environmental advantages were fully understood, BIODIESEL would become the fuel of choice, even at a higher price, for many environmentally sensitive or pollutant-prone areas." (Rapeseed is a winter annual producing about 2,000 pounds of seed per acre - yielding about 100 gallons of oil for fuel, and 1,200 pounds of meal).

The Idaho report noted that transesterification (using an alchohol in the presence of a catalyst to chemically break the molecules) is needed before the rapeseed oil can be used in ordinary diesel engines. The Univeristy of Idaho used a 200-gallon batch reactor to produce methyl and ethyl esters from rapeseed oil.

The University of Idaho (hence referred to as UI) used four diesel pickups, including a 1992 Dodge, 1994 Dodge, and 1995 Dodge Ram pickup with intercooled, turbocharged direct injected diesels, each fueled with different ratios of methyl ester or ethyl ester extracted from rapeseed oil (RME and REE, respecitvely) and standard diesel fuel. The 1994 and 1995 Dodge Ram pickup trucks used 100% REE. The Cummins engines and fuel systems in the Dodge trucks were not modified, though the fuel delivery systems in the 1992 Dodge and a Ford pickup running mixtures of RME and standard diesel fuel were modified to allow for onboard mixing of fuel. The goal (completed in 1998) was to operate each vehicle about 25,000 miles per year, to test them through 100,000 miles.

Dyno testingIn 1994, the UI and Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transit Authority tested the 1994 Dodge on the dyno, collecting data for all regulated emissions (see the results!).

EmissionsAs with any engine and fuel combination, there are going to be issues of where NOx is formed and how to reduce it. Below are some excerpts from various researchers utilizing different engines and blends of BD products.....

1. "Adjustment of injection timing and engine operating temperature will result in these levels [of nitrous oxides with biodiesel] being reduced below mineral diesel levels." -- Dr Kerr Walker, Scottish Agricultural College, 1994, in "Biodiesel from Rapeseed", Journal of the Royal Agricultural Society of England, Volume 155, p. 43-4.

2. "Fueling with biodiesel/diesel fuel blends reduced particulate matter (PM), total hydrocarbons (THC), and carbon monoxide (CO), while increasing oxides of nitrogen (NOx). Retarded fuel injection timing reduced NOx emissions while maintaining the other emissions reductions." -- "6V-92TA DDC Engine Exhaust Emission Tests using Methyl Ester [Biodiesel]", L. G. Schumacher (Department of Agricultural Engineering at the University of Missouri), D. Fosseen, W. Goetz, S. C. Borgelt, W. G. Hires (1995) in Bioresource Technology, 1995

3. As concentration of biodiesel increased, the oxides of nitrogen [NOx] emissions increased. The B20A20 fuel blend effectively reduced the oxides of nitrogen emissions below that of baseline diesel fuel. Retarding the timing was an effective way of reducing NOx emissions when fueling with the biodiesel blends. Oxides of nitrogen emissions ... can be successfully reduced below that of baseline diesel fuel by either retarding injection timing or replacing 20 percent of the baseline diesel fuel of the B20 blend with heavy alkylate." -- "Engine Exhaust Emissions Evaluation of a Cummins L10E When Fueled with a Biodiesel Blend", William Marshall, Leon G. Schumacher, Steve Howell (1995), Society of Automotive Engineers, SAE Paper # 952363 [B20 = a blend of 20% biodiesel with 80% conventional low sulfur petroleum diesel fuel B20A20 = a blend of 20% biodiesel and 20% heavy alkylate with 60% conventional low-sulfur petroleum diesel fuel]

4. "There are reliable, proven methods for baselining or even reducing Nitrous Oxides (NOx) produced when using biodiesel. I have certified emissions for the urban bus retrofit program with EPA (US Environmental Protection Agency) using this technology. This package included use of an oxidation catalyst to maximize Particulate Matter (PM) reductions (taking advantage of the high soluble organic fraction of biodiesel) and a timing change to give up some PM reductions while reducing NOx to baseline or even past baseline -- the best case was a 28% NOx reduction with a 25% PM reduction." -- (From a personal communication, Ming Tseng, Aiko Associates LLC, USA, biodiesel suppliers)

Not even the researchers all agree on the best approach, but several items stand out. A combination of B100 (pure BD), cooled EGR (exhaust gas recirculation-cooled before reintroduction into the combustion chamber) and Catalytic convertor to reduce PM (particulate matter-or "smoke") provides the seemingly best alternatives.

Damn, 2.80 at the station across the street.... good thing I filled up this morning....

Of course this isn't good. That's why it's called a Disaster. If you want to help the fuel problem park the car/truck/SUV and go catch a bus, ride a bike, carpool, etc. Do whatever you can do to conserve. If you want to help with disaster relief then donate money or volunteer. I work in telecom, but we have so few poeple here I'm stuck. In fact I'm the only person in the building.


fuck that.... that's what FEMA is for... but, wait, they don't have the funding because our dearest president cut their funding to pay for the $1 billion/day cost of the war... wait, again, it isn't a war... IT'S A GODDAMN CONFLICT.. and they will have their constitution soon... fuck that...

maybe some of you conservatives will realize some day that you fucked up your vote... this guy is a fucking douchebag and is currently running this country into the ground...

WELCOME THE DEPRESSION OF 2005-2006....

Damn, 2.80 at the station across the street.... good thing I filled up this morning....

LOL, our prices have been in excess of 290 for nearly six months now. For regular.

got my fuel relativly cheap today, at $5.60 a gallon!


the fucked up thing is the oil price is only going up on speculation!!! from oil futures traders!!

with all the people stranded and not being able to user their cars there should be an over abundance not a shortage

The shortage has to do with production not surpluses and whats already here. the paranoia is causing the shortages now but the real problem comes when we use what we have and the pipes and rigs are still out of service

This just in...

On I-10 a gas station in leon county florida has upped the price past the 4$ mark. it is knucking futs down here!!!! theres plenty of gas but everyones going nuts right now and the radio/news people are whipping everyone into a frenzy. I may acually contemplate drive offs soon. I cant afford this shit! I am barely making it on what i have and now i have do double my gas bill since last year with no increase in pay. I am goign to go nuts... any one wnat to fund my engingeering for my air powered car. I already have the design and system for a prototype i just need the backing to buy the parts to get govt funding and become the worlds richest man. I will cut everyone who donates a percentage of the profit for a specified period of time or a lump sum at the sale of the patent.

Biodiesel is the way to go. It's significantly cheaper. If only there was a car company willing to mass market a biodiesel car, i'd buy one.

BTW, I think some of these gas stations are gouging prices. $5.60 in Atlanta? That's gouging. Hell i'm about 150 miles away from Atlanta and our gas is half that on average.

What makes me mad is that the price jumped 25 cents in one day, but thats not how much more they paid for the gas already in their underground tanks....seems like any slight word that there may be 'shortages' and the places around here jump on it. I think it is 2.99 for regular and mid-grade around here...further north it has hit 3.30 but 15 miles to my west it is still 2.69. Since work is only 5 miles away for me I sent my bicycle to get fixed a while ago




If you bought something and it increased in value, would you want to sell it for what you paid for it? knowing that you will have to pay more than that to replace it.

^ That's exactly why it went up so quickly. Oil is over $70 a barrel now. If I owned a gas station, and this opportunity came upon me, I'd raise prices like a mofo too.

No need to sell at $2.25 when your neighbor is at $2.99. Even with that said, profit is one thing, gouging is another. I don't see why gas in some places is $5.60 a gallon.

I know of some gas stations that were fined heavily after September 11th for gouging gas prices.

I know the law around here is that they cannot raiise the price more then once in a 24hr. period....

Bush just said not to buy gas unless you need it. I think he's on to something.

First smart thing the man's said in years....

who cares about gas prices...its just another bill to pay...i dont bother complaining...if i wanted to pay less for gas id sell my 7 and buy a honda....

First smart thing the man's said in years....

Years.. as in... his entire life?

I think it was a prety redundant remark myself

atlanta at 9$

You've got to be joking.

i wish i lived in south america (or is it afica?). the gas prices are only 10 cents a gallon.

Years.. as in... his entire life?

:teeth:

i wish i lived in south america (or is it afica?). the gas prices are only 10 cents a gallon.

yeah, but you make $5/mo.

I say $5 in the next year.........

:owned:

We went down to ATL this weekend, and it was under $2 per gallon. Like a month ago, my friends and I were saying we thought gas would never get under $2.50 again. Around here it's around $2.07.

seriously wtf is up with this price drop?

i'm much more inclined to believe they were actually gouging us during the summer... assholes.

$2.12 by my house, i like it

1.93 here :) 2.05ish for premium

I would prefer they just keep prices a little higher so there wouldn't be huge seasonal spikes. It might also make people start thinking a little bit more about their driving habbits. Of course, I have more of an agenda. Right now, I'm only driving like once a week if that. I'm sure I'll be driving more in the summer and later. I don't care about high prices now as long as they're lower when I start driving more.

1.93 was the low around here, sitting at 2.04 today

We're right around $2.40 at cash stations, $.15 more expensive for self-serve w/ CC. I paid about $2.85 for premium a week and a half ago.

Funny thing around here:

Most places are running around $2.39 for regular, with the usual 10 cent bumps for the better stuff.

One guy is doing $2.39 for 87, $2.51 for 89, 2.65 for 91, and $2.79 for 93.

That's why I claim price gouging. There is no fucking way Sunoco is charging him 40 cents a gallon more for 93.

Barrel just went up to $60.

Thanks North Korea......

$2.30 for 93
$2.09 for 87

hope it lasts XD

2.09 for 87 here in Texas, wish it would go below $2.

There's no gouging at the pump, there's really no room for it. Every station is subject to the prices of all other stations in the area, there is extremely fierce price competition. Most stations are lucky to make 2-3 cents a gallon. Alot of the increases are from refinery bottlenecks, and oil producers deciding when to drill and when not to which has alot to do with seasons and interest rates. If they know for sure they can sell the oil at a higher price 6 months down the road than they can by extracting it now and earning interest, they are certainly going to wait.

Its been sitting around $1.96 here.

Thank god for living in MO, cheapest gas in the nation.

~ 2.60-70 for 91...

I paid $2.00/gal for 87 a couple days ago....

2.29 for 87 2.59 for prem and 2.67 for diesel