last year, GM sold 9.2 million units worldwide - 660,000 in China alone. It was their second best year in the history of the company (surpassed only by 1978).

Yet they still lost 10.6 billion dollars, and their stock lost half it's value.

For every American employee actually making cars, GM is paying health and pension benefits to another 2.5 former employees.

How can GM remain a viable business? Rather, how can GM become a viable business?

Dont want to repost what I put on teh 7 forum.

last year, GM sold 9.2 million units worldwide - 660,000 in China alone. It was their second best year in the history of the company (surpassed only by 1978).

Yet they still lost 10.6 billion dollars, and their stock lost half it's value.

For every American employee actually making cars, GM is paying health and pension benefits to another 2.5 former employees.

How can GM remain a viable business? Rather, how can GM become a viable business?

Yep, those union pensions are a bitch.

yet another reason that Unions are the rot that is destroying the industry in this nation.

GM is a private sector representation of a democratic government's inefficiency.

Totalitarium government, like China is the way to go toget shit down around here. Less talking, more walking.

communism = faster stronger economy
democracy = opposite of ^

communism = faster stronger economy

depends how its applied.

In the former Soviet Union, for example, tractor factories would churn out their quota of tractors whether or not there were orders to fill or tires available for the wheels. Why produce what isn't needed? Why not produce what is needed? Ineffective central planning leads to simultaneous shortages and waste. Effective central planning leads to an optimum distribution of goods.

You can have a politically democratic and economically communist country or, like China, a politically communist and economically capitalist one. The Soviet Union was political and economically communist, and collapsed under its own weight. The United States is politically democratic and economically capitalist, and some own dozen of exotic cars while others starve without health care, food, or lodgings.

If toyota bought GM I would have to say I would buy a new GM vehicle.

depends how its applied.

In the former Soviet Union, for example, tractor factories would churn out their quota of tractors whether or not there were orders to fill or tires available for the wheels. Why produce what isn't needed? Why not produce what is needed? Ineffective central planning leads to simultaneous shortages and waste. Effective central planning leads to an optimum distribution of goods.

You can have a politically democratic and economically communist country or, like China, a politically communist and economically capitalist one. The Soviet Union was political and economically communist, and collapsed under its own weight. The United States is politically democratic and economically capitalist, and some own dozen of exotic cars while others starve without health care, food, or lodgings.
damnit! stop following me!

Personally, I'd never buy a Toyota. Their cars are designed to put you to sleep and completely isolate you from the road.

Oh yea, and fuck the UAW :D

Communism is an absolutely brilliant idea except for one tiny little flaw: The ones who are in positions of power think it applies to everyone BUT them. Once it's corrupted, it's over.

maybe if more designers at GM would stop smoking dope and produce ascetically pleasing and reliable vehicles people actually want to purchase, things could change...but I think it's a case of too little, too late

anybody think Toyota would consider acquisition of GM? I'm not sure why they would, though

oh yea, GM makes some of the most unreliable cars on earth, give me a fuqqin break. :rolleyes:

I'll happily tell you that my 98 Chevy Cavalier has never given me any problems, which is something that I cannot say about any import car i've owned. All of which were Hondas.

It's had oil changes, brakes, and tires, and it's quite a reliable piece of machinery. And unlike most OHC setups in its class, it doesn't eat timing belts every 70k miles either, thanks to the cam in block design, aka pushrod motor :)

The gap between GM and its competitors on the issue of reliability has long been closed, but 'mericans love their boring base Camry LE's, and apparently having a Camry must be a status symbol. Everytime I hear someone talk about a Camry, the convo goes something like this...

"So you have a Toyota Camry? Wow, those are really nice!"
"Yea, it is. Has power everything (which really means windows, locks, and mirrors) and gets really good gas mileage (which means they bought a 4 banger base, more than likely).

As for GM, they'll be stuck in the hole for a while. People are still pissed off about them killing Oldsmobile, and as of recently, just not being competitive enough. It just kills me that the new $48k Tahoe has a 4 speed automatic tranny, which is unacceptable being that they have one in their parts bin.

Personally, I'd never buy a Toyota. Their cars are designed to put you to sleep and completely isolate you from the road.

Oh yea, and fuck the UAW :D
unless its the supra tt.

unless its the supra tt.

Which is no longer being made. It's was a car in a dying market, kinda like the FD ;)

Toyota has given up on making cars for the enthusiast. The closest we'll ever get to something exciting is the Lexus IS.

I would buy a Toyota if I wanted gas mileage.

B ut I damn sure wouldn't buy a brand new Toyota for the sake of saving fuel.

B ut I damn sure wouldn't buy a brand new Toyota for the sake of saving fuel.
depends on what was available used and what financing was offered.

closed? no

significantly narrowed? you bet

Toyotas continue to impress me, especially now that I own one...their engines are fine crafted jewels...GM is still a polished stone by comparison

which is better than the piston-slapping-polished-turd of 5-10+ years ago :)

It's been closed. Toyota has had just as many quality control issues as GM, especially as of recently. It's the price of trying to be the #1 automaker in the world, which is a title that GM will not give up without a fight.

And please don't tell me you own a Camry.

I would rather own a Camry then a Cavalier.

my Corolla XRS with a 1.8L 2ZZ has 170 hp and gets 30 mpg in the city, and the mileage is getting BETTER as I put more miles on the clock (it now has 10,000)

that shows you how tight and well built these engines really are....same engine that's in the Elise btw

That 1.8L POS has to be rung like a rag to get power, and i'm speaking from experience from driving a Celica.

The Elise is right under a ton? Hell you could put a lawnmower engine in it and get a decent 1/4 mile.

I would rather own a Camry then a Cavalier.

Which is why I have an Explorer too ;)

I would buy a Toyota if I wanted gas mileage.
why not a honda?

I have fun driving it :) I'm used to driving a bike to revving it is no problem...it's a great little engine

It's great in the Elise.

Drove a '02 Celica, and it didn't wake up til about 5k. Torqueless work of art, but with 1.8L, you can't expect much.

why not a honda?
I already have a honda.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Sup1661/Work%20Safe/motorcycle%20pics/cdd87fb2.jpg

hondas are the best made cars in my opinion

hondas are the best made cars in my opinion

And where do you get your crack from?

ohh enduro

i might consider this little gem of a toyota when it comes out

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/8592_image.jpg
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/8592_image.jpg
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Spy_Shots/Spy_Shots_06_Toyota_Supercar.S178.A7633.html

well mazdaspeed better do something with that RX8... cause that "toyota" looks like a fuckin ferrari.

Isnt it supposed to have like massive HP

if Toyota can sell that 100k ferrari look a like. then mazda can sell an uber fast 50k rotary machine. brap brap brap biatch!

It's been closed. Toyota has had just as many quality control issues as GM, especially as of recently. It's the price of trying to be the #1 automaker in the world, which is a title that GM will not give up without a fight.

Which demonstrates that Toyota quality has gone down, not that GM quality has gone up.

And GM is barely the #1 automaker, and then only in volume. It's actually #8 in market capitalization and plunging fast. Heck, FIAT - the embattled poor-boy of Europe, is ahead of GM right now helped in part by the billions GM paid it to buy part of it and the billions more GM paid it to back out on the deal.

GM needs ch. 11 bankruptcy to be a strong company again.

maybe if more designers at GM would stop smoking dope and produce ascetically pleasing ...

Since I'm a victim of too much education, I thought I'd enlighten you on this very forgivable spelling ERROR


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aesthetically



........... UNLESS of course you meant a Vette which renounces material comforts and leads a life of austere self-discipline, especially as an act of religious devotion......

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ascetically

Who the fuck are you.

he likes balls.

good question

btw, I saw a copper colored C6 Z06 this weekend....absolutely stunning....maybe if more designers at GM would stop smoking dope and produce ascetically pleasing and reliable vehicles people actually want to purchase, things could change...but I think it's a case of too little, too late



Gentlemen,

u'll have to excuse YZF for smoking biblical dust.

Little does he realize that American cars/trucks are not that unreliable. I have 150k miles on my 4.3l sonoma that doesn't leak or burn oil.

Tranny is solid. had to replace a clutch fan, alternator and A/C compressor over the course of the 150k miles. The rest are mods. All in all, mods and/or repairs are ALOT cheaper and easier to service than most anything from europe, and a good deal from the far east.

As far as exciting, well I'll agree to that partially. Trucks, vettes from GM are actually something I wouldn't be ashamed of driving.

GM has hit a gold mine with On star, I think if they work it correcty it will help them greatly.

i wonder if on star can order me some pizza...

GM needs ch. 11 bankruptcy to be a strong company again.

or find a way to get rid of the UAW.

I thought the new Supra was going to be more reasonably priced....not $100k!

There will be no new Supra. That pic up there is the "Lexus Supercar", which is supposed to compete with the SL Class, 6-Series, and the like.

The Supra name is dead. Or you can look at it like all the other wishful thinkers..."It's taken a hiatus, for now".

Toyota is making a killing off boring bland cars. Until that changes, I doubt they'll put any excitement in their lineup.

nissan gt-r = infiniti G something.
toyota supra = lexus something

etc etc.

nissan gt-r = infiniti G something.
toyota supra = lexus something

etc etc.

The upcoming GT-R from Nissan won't be an Infinit G. I believe it's a modified platform of what the G/Z ride on, but not exactly the same. I'm not so sure that Infiniti is getting a clone of the GT-R either.

The upcoming Lexus Supercar won't have a Toyota clone .

well its going to be an Infiniti and i assume its going to be named in the G catagory.... since it is supposed to be a supped up G35 isnt it?

The new GT-R is v8 powered 4WD and has a more advanced Attesa.

well its going to be an Infiniti and i assume its going to be named in the G catagory.... since it is supposed to be a supped up G35 isnt it?

Nissan's CEO has stated that the GT-R will come to the U.S. as a Nissan, it's not a G car . The next Gen/Refreshed G35 should be here shortly

Who the fuck are you.

?

Forget something?

I didnt forget anything that I recall, so who the fuck are you.

hes my mom.