-And what, aside of EGO, would ever make you convinced that he does?
And you who believe in God believe that someone as hate-filled as Mark, who has prayed for the DEATH of another forum member(!!!), has a better shot at being accepted into heaven than someone who could claim that mankind had poisoned The Word so much that it made it virtually impossible to know who to follow?

But really, I only wish to offer up opportunity for you people to seperate your immense egos from your faith... -An unvailing, if you will.

I do not see it as a possibility. But please explain how or why God would give a rat's ass about YOU.

Back then, he didn't give a rat's doggen. however, he died a long time ago with a heart stroke. His allege son runs the show now. Youll have to break the first commandment to worship jesus now. Jesus = 666 beast; for if you worship jesus....you are going to hell for breaking the 1st commanment

-And what, aside of EGO, would ever make you convinced that he does?
And you who believe in God believe that someone as hate-filled as Marky Roid-Boy, who has prayed for the DEATH of another forum member(!!!), has a better shot at being accepted into heaven than someone who could claim that mankind had poisoned The Word so much that it made it virtually impossible to know who to follow?

But really, I only wish to offer up opportunity for you people to seperate your immense egos from your faith... -An unvailing, if you will.

I do not see it as a possibility. But please explain how or why God would give a rat's ass about YOU.


OK, I'm game. God himself makes me convinced that he gives a flippin FUDGE about me. My conscience convicts me that his word is the truth, where he flat out describes what he has done to prove his love for me. And do you really think Mark is hate filled? Sure he may fly off some times, who doesn't?

Side Bar:

Do you like chicks? Are you a homosexual? I'm not saying you are. Why are you here? Are you pissed off at God? Do you hate people who are trying to understand God? When I wasn't paying attention to God, I didn't get invovled in discussions about him. When I thought little about God I found it very easy to avoid any mention of him at all. If I knew you when I wasn't paying attention to God, (and really I'm speaking to all of you who regularly come to the religion section who don't like Christ), I'd think you were a f'ing Marylin Manson loving, closet homo, goth dressed weirdo a** hat clown moron. I have no interest in anime. Do I go to the anime section and spout off about why anime is a waste of time? Hell no, why, because I don't give a flying coitus session about it. But I thank God that you are here, because while I may never be able to reach someone like my former self, you readily offer up yourself to be exposed to the love of Christ.

End of sidebar.

Does it make you any less quilty of breaking God's law? Nope. If Mark has a better shot of getting into heaven than Ghandi, so what. Do we make the rules? No.

And why does God care about me? Good question! Who knows why? That he has chosen to do so is an infinite honor because I clearly do not deserve it. You can't possibly understand any of this without the HS helping you. You have no hope.

Nope. If Mark has a better shot of getting into heaven than Ghandi, so what. Do we make the rules? No.



If Mark gets into heaven and Mother Teresa or Ghandi do not (as Mark claims), then your system is fundamentally flawed.

in terms of our moral value[/i]

YZF,

Turn your email back on.

If Mark gets into heaven and Mother Teresa or Ghandi do not (as Mark claims), then your system is fundamentally flawed.

It's not my system. The problem is that you don't like it, I understand why. There's nothing that can be done to change the rules. I think it is tough too, but I'll be like Job and keep my mouth shut since I wasn't there when he made the rules.

I can't....I'm moderated by the almighy kev-dog ;)

Yep, you sure as shit are.

the man crucified at the right of Jesus was likely considered the scum of the earth by people of the day, and could certainly not offer Jesus anything in this life, with mere hours remaining...yet God chose to have mercy on that man anyway...God elects! it all begins and ends with God!

I will have mercy on who I will have mercy...I will have compassion on who I will have compassion

So, you could jump through all the hoops, do everything right, and God could still tell you "Denied!" Good to know. You could also be a dirt bag, and God could give you the Golden Wonka Ticket. Also good to know.

and thankfully God is merciful, or we would all be dead....the brightness of a million suns would consume all the flesh on earth in an eyeblink, and, in fact, just that sort of judgment is predicted when Christ returns in glory

But God isn't merciful. If he was so merciful, he wouldn't have heaven and hell, he'd just open the gates and let everyone in. You keep telling me how he's intolerant, etc, etc. You keep contradicting yourself.

humans beings have no idea of how holy (distinct) God is, and the sheer miracle that we should be called 'Sons of God' and dwell in inapproachable light forever is beyond words....living for this world? this rapidly decaying dump?

you gotta be kidding me

Seriously, if there's no point to living, then why put us here? If you're just living to die, why not kill yourself now so you can go be in heaven? If people that die go off to be with God, then how come all the fundamentalist Christians were trying to keep Terri Schiavo alive, despite her brain not functioning and her having a .00000000000000000000000001% chance of recovery? Why fight for abortion to be legal, when the spirit could just go off to live in the light of the lord?

It's not my system. The problem is that you don't like it, I understand why. There's nothing that can be done to change the rules. I think it is tough too, but I'll be like Job and keep my mouth shut since I wasn't there when he made the rules.

No, the system is fundamentally flawed. Look at Mother Teresa. The woman did nothing but good her whole life. Followed the Bible. Sacrificed of herself to help others... But, because she's a Catholic, not a Christian, she's doomed to hell? That's ridiculous. You mean to tell me that God can't look into the hearts of men or women and know whether they are inherently good or evil? You mean to tell me that someone like Mark, who openly wishes death on other people, will get in, but Mother Teresa won't, simply because Mark gives his 10% to the right group?

The system is flawed if those rules are legitimate.

You mean to tell me that God can't look into the hearts of men or women and know whether they are inherently good or evil?

He does. And He tells us, ALL humanity is inherently evil.

He does. And He tells us, ALL humanity is inherently evil.
...In which case there's no difference in God's eyes between someone who walks into a school house and blows little Amish girls brains all over a blackboard, and yourself.

So basically the gist of Christianity is not to be good and wholesome toward your fellow man, but to do what you really believe God wants you to do to other people, no matter how despicable or evil.

...Like drown your children in a bathtub filled with lukewarm water that has vomit and excrement suspended throughout it from the last child that was drowned in it.
...Or like building a bond fire and burning epileptics as witches.
...Or like eating the flesh of slain Muslims.

Ya know. Shit like that.

&BTW, bx7,
I don't care about any other religion on Earth except Christianity. But it's not because there's a smidge of a hint of doubt about my belief that idea of a God is ludicrous and childish, it's because I attribute ALL of the current global political problems to the arrogance of what I call "Americanized ChristiaNazism".
The "Americanized" Christian is Mark Strong; someone who is so filled to the brim with arrogance and condescension that not one gram of compassion for anyone else on Earth can be found in his body; someone who is so egocentric in his belief that he fails to realize that what he believes is true, he believes because he believes he cannot possibly be wrong- not because he has the faith!
This is the "Americanization" of Christianity. Self-Idolatry. God is supposed to hate idol-worship, yet it's the Mark Strongs who worship things like his own body and the American flag.

YOU PEOPLE are what's wrong with the whole fucking world! YOU PEOPLE are why everyone wants us all dead!
THAT'S why I have such an interest here. Because I want each and every single one of you wiped from the face of the Earth.

not[/i] because he has the faith!
This is the "Americanization" of Christianity. Self-Idolatry. God is supposed to hate idol-worship, yet it's the Mark Strongs who worship things like his own body and the American flag.

YOU PEOPLE are what's wrong with the whole fucking world! YOU PEOPLE are why everyone wants us all dead!
THAT'S why I have such an interest here. Because I want each and every single one of you wiped from the face of the Earth.

Christianity is a medium facilitated by those you despise. Stating that you hate it is like me saying that I hate Ouija boards when the reality is that it’s the douche bags that use them to “summon spirits” that I can’t stand. In my eyes, a Ouija board is an empty vessel just as Christianity is to you. I don’t look at the Ouija board as the reason why these assholes exist as I understand that it probably had very little influence on their personalities in the first place.

If Christianity did not exist then these ChristiaNazis’ that you speak of would still exist, they would just operate under a different name. Trying to attribute American arrogance to any religion is just silly.

What I’m trying to say is that “arrogant assholes” are everywhere and while a certain faith may dictate the direction of their behavior, it by no means states the severity.

On a side note, how do you justify your confidence in the fact that God or a god does not exist when you likely have as much proof as yzf does to the contrary?

What I’m trying to say is that “arrogant assholes” are everywhere and while a certain faith may dictate the direction of their behavior, it by no means states the severity.


You could not be more wrong there....the strength of one's faith and the severity of their actions are inextricably linked. Two great examples of this are Abraham and Job--both went to what most consider to be very extreme lengths to act based upon that faith....Job acted out of that faith no matter what God allowed to happen to him, while Abraham was prepared to stab his own beloved son Isaac, purely on the faith that because God told him to do it, he needed to do it.

The rich man, from the "eye of the needle" story, did not want to give up his wealth because his FAITH was not strong enough to trust in God's promise of far better "riches" in the Kingdom.

Every day, people act on their individual level of faith....and every day, other people act on their lack of said faith. The level of faith you have is definitely linked to your actions. If you have complete faith that God wants you to kill someone, and your faith is solid that God will never lead you wrong, you will follow that command with your heart because of what you BELIEVE will come from it. Marky believes that his version of faith is 100% accurate....yet he constantly boasts of things that go against God's Word....why? Because he has the faith that he is always right. Faith is what compels people to act, or in some cases, not to act.

the entire human race is damned to hell, by sentence of the Law of God

Then God sucks, and I'm glad I don't believe any of that garbage.

thus...god dont give a flipping fuk about you

You could not be more wrong there....the strength of one's faith and the severity of their actions are inextricably linked. Two great examples of this are Abraham and Job--both went to what most consider to be very extreme lengths to act based upon that faith....Job acted out of that faith no matter what God allowed to happen to him, while Abraham was prepared to stab his own beloved son Isaac, purely on the faith that because God told him to do it, he needed to do it.

The rich man, from the "eye of the needle" story, did not want to give up his wealth because his FAITH was not strong enough to trust in God's promise of far better "riches" in the Kingdom.

Every day, people act on their individual level of faith....and every day, other people act on their lack of said faith. The level of faith you have is definitely linked to your actions. If you have complete faith that God wants you to kill someone, and your faith is solid that God will never lead you wrong, you will follow that command with your heart because of what you BELIEVE will come from it. Marky believes that his version of faith is 100% accurate....yet he constantly boasts of things that go against God's Word....why? Because he has the faith that he is always right. Faith is what compels people to act, or in some cases, not to act.

Disagree. One’s ability to commit themselves completely to faith is an aspect of their personality. How else do you explain different “levels of faith”?

any questions?

the entire human race is damned to hell, by sentence of the Law of God

No sir, professor yzf-r1. you answered all of them. God truely didn't give a flying phuck about us.

Fear mongering. That's the AmeriChristian way. It's "perfectly logical" to far too many people in this country.One’s ability to commit themselves completely to faith is an aspect of their personality. How else do you explain different “levels of faith”?YupYup! This explains the PsychoMarks of the Bush regime, Al Qaida, Christianity, or any other radical group that strives for global dominance.

.YupYup! This explains the PsychoMarks of the Bush regime, Al Qaida, Christianity, or any other radical group that strives for global dominance.

Sure it does. Certain systems appear attractive to such people because it allows them to resort to extremism.

Disagree. One’s ability to commit themselves completely to faith is an aspect of their personality. How else do you explain different “levels of faith”?

wrong again....the ability to commit to something is in EVERYONE'S personality.....the FAITH required to determine which "something" to commit to is a different story.

When I say that it is in everyone's personality, consider for a moment the fact that before you committed to God, you were committing to something else--usually yourself in most cases. That ability to commit was already there---but the thing that determines WHAT you commit to is where your FAITH is placed.

Oh, and by the way, it is a simple forgone conclusion that people who possessed stronger faith in God are able to commit more of themselves to God. Job, for example, was able to rely on his FAITH, even when he was losing so much, because that FAITH is what told him that God was going to be there for him. He could have been more, well, human, I imagine, and just said screw it when things kept getting worse....but he had such great faith in God that he truly believed above all else that God would see him through. Note that in the story about Job, his personality was never mentioned--but his FAITH certainly was....see for yourself--

8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

Satan asked God, there, if Job's faith was only there because God protected him....NOT HIS PERSONALITY.

on to Job 2....

3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."

4 "Skin for skin!" Satan replied. "A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face."

In Job 4, when Eliphaz replies to Job's discouragement, he speaks entirely of FAITH, not of personality. See for yourself--

1 Then Eliphaz the Temanite replied:
2 "If someone ventures a word with you, will you be impatient?
But who can keep from speaking?

3 Think how you have instructed many,
how you have strengthened feeble hands.

4 Your words have supported those who stumbled;
you have strengthened faltering knees.

5 But now trouble comes to you, and you are discouraged;
it strikes you, and you are dismayed.

6 Should not your piety be your confidence
and your blameless ways your hope?

7 "Consider now: Who, being innocent, has ever perished?
Where were the upright ever destroyed?

8 As I have observed, those who plow evil
and those who sow trouble reap it.

9 At the breath of God they are destroyed;
at the blast of his anger they perish.

10 The lions may roar and growl,
yet the teeth of the great lions are broken.

11 The lion perishes for lack of prey,
and the cubs of the lioness are scattered.

These words are all about having faith in God that He will save the upright from such a fate.

Anyone can make a commitment--but it takes faith to follow through....faith that you are doing the right thing, especially in this example, where Job has lost so much and is suffering so much. FAITH is needed to weather the storm and continue to honor that commitment when things are that hard.

...In which case there's no difference in God's eyes between someone who walks into a school house and blows little Amish girls brains all over a blackboard, and yourself.

On a somewhat basic level, yes. May the blood of Christ cover us all.

So basically the gist of Christianity is not to be good and wholesome toward your fellow man, but to do what you really believe God wants you to do to other people, no matter how despicable or evil.

Somewhat. We are not saved by what we do, or who we are, lest we boast. The act of salvation was completed on the cross by the man we call Jesus Christ. If following the law lead to salvation, Christ would not need to have died. Yet, because He loved us, he died so that we might be saved, covered by His flawless blood.

...Like drown your children in a bathtub filled with lukewarm water that has vomit and excrement suspended throughout it from the last child that was drowned in it.
...Or like building a bond fire and burning epileptics as witches.
...Or like eating the flesh of slain Muslims.

It is written: Test every spirit, for even Satan appears as an angel of the light!

Because I want each and every single one of you wiped from the face of the Earth.

Yeh, us Jews are sadly used to hearing that :/

It is written: Test every spirit, for even Satan appears as an angel of the light!

BUT--Matthew 4:7....

Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "

Apparently, we are to test every spirit EXCEPT for one particular spirit.....

What translation are you reading?

He is quoting a verse from Deuteronomy 6, verse 16.

"You shall not tempt the LORD your God, as you tempted him in Massah."

The word "Tempt" is key, as is the second part of the verse, "AS you tempted him in Massah"

Also, when I said "Test every spirit," I was qoting a verse from first John, chapter 4 verse 1:

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world."

Again, I disagree. Sure, to some extent everyone has the ability to commit to something but different convictions require different levels of faith and commitment. Someone who chooses to commit themselves to only their own material happiness may choose this because it coincides with their personality.

Now, let’s look at Job again. If your argument is that Job’s strong conviction was attributed in part to God then I agree with you, but that’s not an argument that I’m going to be able to win with Divine Logic so I didn’t try. Looking at his initial post, I felt that his issue was with certain PERSONAILITY traits and not the Christian faith itself.

Again, I disagree. Sure, to some extent everyone has the ability to commit to something but different convictions require different levels of faith and commitment. Someone who chooses to commit themselves to only their own material happiness may choose this because it coincides with their personality.

Now, let’s look at Job again. If your argument is that Job’s strong conviction was attributed in part to God then I agree with you, but that’s not an argument that I’m going to be able to win with Divine Logic so I didn’t try. Looking at his initial post, I felt that his issue was with certain PERSONAILITY traits and not the Christian faith itself.

OR, they may choose to commit themselves to selfish pursuits because they do not have the faith needed to do otherwise. Like I said, before you were saved, your faith was placed elsewhere, was it not? Your personality does not instantly or completely change the instant you first heard of the Word...if it did, then you would never sin once you were saved! But, as everyone does, we go back to that behavior time and again, even though we have the Word, because the personality is still there. Faith is the difference.

This is not a personality issue--even those of strong faith still sin, which is a personality issue itself. But the faith end of this is really simple--those who have stronger faith and beliefs can rely on that stronger faith and beliefs to guide them through tougher times....in the same manner, if your faith is weaker, and you are not as strong in your convictions, it is easier for you to give up when things get tough and go a different way.

contradictory and illogical thinking (what a shocker)

are you following your "heart" (your will) or God's Word, with a heart of obedience?

nothing is logical to you unless it comes from answering genesis, so why am I not surprised?? In either case, why even ask that question of me? I am not even worthy of living according to you, simply because of an internet forum, so why act like you care what is in anyone's heart?

no, stop speaking for me, jonnie, because I hate when you do that, and you ALWAYS GET IT WRONG

I belive GOD'S WORD is 100% accurate, it has nothing to do with "my version" of anything

Hey, take a chill....all I did was use your own words! What--you dont like that? Maybe next time, you wont be so quick to tell everyone how you are "always right" or "never wrong" on spiritual matters. When you said those things, you were NOT saying the word GOD in any of that....it was YOU, in your own words, so dont lie now.

IF you really are suffering from that memory loss, we can revisit all the posts where you make comments like "I am an M1 tank steamrolling all over you...." and the like. Did you really think that lying about your actions would magically change them?? You are smarter than that....act like it

no, I don't....I enjoy my FD and working out, but don't talk about it that much, and usually when I do, it's in response to some slanderous accusation, which come in thick in fast on these forums...Jim even claimed I did not own an FD

1--I dont see Jim anywhere in this thread, so bringing him up is pointless.

2--why are you lying? The forums are literally filled with quotes from you, boasting about money, cars, motorcycles, the supposed girlfriend, your degree, your job, your new house, your muscles, how much you can bench, etc etc etc etc etc etc ad nauseum. WHY LIE NOW??

3--is this the way you follow? Refuse to take responsibility for your incorrect behavior by always trying to pin it on someone else??

"but don't talk about it that much, and usually when I do, it's in response to...."

Just once, you should think about actually just taking responsibility for your actions, Marky--your faults are not the fault of everyone else here. Your reactions are yours and yours alone, so stop making excuses for why you ignore God's instruction all these times....

more lies...I never once said that, or implied that

REALLY??

We've all only seen you do that plenty of times....you love to boast that you are always right....that you always win....that you are superior....blah blah blah. You not only impled it, you have come right out and said it before....And your now-famous "you can only be proven wrong" implies more arrogance by far than God ever intended His followers to display, so once again, stop thinking youre fooling anyone.

Oh, almost forgot, welcome back!!!!:bigthumb:

yes, welcome back yzf

Welcome back YZF :)

Yeah, welcome back.

Yeah, welcome back, Fuckface.

Ouch, now that's not nice.

Why give YZF such are a hard time?

Let's bring out the AfterLife logic table:
x axis is whether YZF is right or wrong
y axis is whether or not you listen to him


................................YZF's Right ........................ YZF's Wrong

You listen to Mark .......You go to heaven ............... Nothing Happens

You don't listen Mark....You go to hell..................... Nothing Happens

Right off the top there's a 50% chance nothing happens. There's a 25% chance you get redeemed and go to heaven. That sounds pretty good to me. At least it's more promising than 'Nothing Happens'. But, uh oh, there's a 25% chance you go to hell. Ouch. That's bad. Listening to YZF offers the best Afterlife opportunity.

You guys owe him an apology and a heartfelt thanks for trying.

Ouch, now that's not nice.

Why give YZF such are a hard time?

Let's bring out the AfterLife logic table:
x axis is whether YZF is right or wrong
y axis is whether or not you listen to him


................................YZF's Right ........................ YZF's Wrong

You listen to Mark .......You go to heaven ............... Nothing Happens

You don't listen Mark....You go to hell..................... Nothing Happens

Right off the top there's a 50% chance nothing happens. There's a 25% chance you get redeemed and go to heaven. That sounds pretty good to me. At least it's more promising than 'Nothing Happens'. But, uh oh, there's a 25% chance you go to hell. Ouch. That's bad. Listening to YZF offers the best Afterlife opportunity.

You guys owe him an apology and a heartfelt thanks for trying.


LOL
truely,
you should be a stand up comedian :)

Ouch, now that's not nice.

Why give YZF such are a hard time?

Let's bring out the AfterLife logic table:
x axis is whether YZF is right or wrong
y axis is whether or not you listen to him


................................YZF's Right ........................ YZF's Wrong

You listen to Mark .......You go to heaven ............... Nothing Happens

You don't listen Mark....You go to hell..................... Nothing Happens

Right off the top there's a 50% chance nothing happens. There's a 25% chance you get redeemed and go to heaven. That sounds pretty good to me. At least it's more promising than 'Nothing Happens'. But, uh oh, there's a 25% chance you go to hell. Ouch. That's bad. Listening to YZF offers the best Afterlife opportunity.

You guys owe him an apology and a heartfelt thanks for trying.

wow....this is rather interesting....

Let me ask you, since you seem to be some sort of expert on the topic--when someone gives you advice on how to do something, would you follow their advice when even they dont follow it?? I mean, come on already--if YZF's words were the right ones, and that path was the right path, dont you think that he would bother following it himself? THAT should say something, not necessarily about the message, but in this case, about the MESSENGER.

You look at his posts, and you cherry-pick. Others here do not. We see the fact that Marky disobeys God more than anyone else in here, yet he claims to follow God??? Funny that you miss this.....sure, you could then say that "it is what's in Mark's heart that counts...", and then you would be wrong again. Marky has repeatedly shown that in his heart, he genuinely wishes for people to die. In that heart, he genuinely thinks that he is better than everyone else. And, in that heart, he is upset by the fact that ol' jonnie's still kicking, because his cancer didnt kill him yet. Dont pee on my leg and tell me its raining here--I know better, and you should too.

If Mark TRULY believed in the message for the right reasons, then he would at least make effort to follow his own advice. Lest you forget, God instructed the faithful to LET YOUR LIFE BE YOUR DOCTRINE. God's followers were taught to let their lives be examples for Christ--let me tell you, in case you were not aware somehow, no one here wants to emulate Marky. Not in the spiritual sense, anyways. some may be jealous of the many possessions that yzf brags about, but that is not the way anyways, is it? When yzf speaks, gets repeatedly banned, then speaks again, only to get banned again, and even to have his posts moderated because he cannot be trusted to control himself, how is that living as an example for Christ? He doesnt get banned because of his spiritual stubbornness--he gets in trouble because of his inability to control himself with any sense of the big picture. He LOVES to boast about how people have dogged him "for years", yet even on this point, he fails the instrction of God.

Bottom line is that he is a false prophet--he can boast about the Word all he likes, but when it is all talk and nothing else, no one will ever see what it means to walk with God through Marky's example. That's a fact. Marky isnt here trying to get me, or dennis, or Kevin to convert--he has already pronounced us "beyond all hope" many times over. The only reason he is still here is because it is safe for him to blow up here, and not safe for him to do it in his "real" life. If the people he sees every day knew this side of him, it is a sure bet that Mark's life would not be anywhere near what he thinks it is right now. So, he comes here and spits it out, so that they dont have to see it. And that way, he gets to continue his fake little facade. Strange though--the ones who should be hearing about his anger issues the most, the ones in his church, are the ones he works the hardest to hide it from. THAT is not "living as an example for Christ".....so dont tell me to thank him for squat.

i have a better chance going to heaven than yzf

wow....this is rather interesting....

Let me ask you, since you seem to be some sort of expert on the topic--when someone gives you advice on how to do something, would you follow their advice when even they dont follow it?? I mean, come on already--if YZF's words were the right ones, and that path was the right path, dont you think that he would bother following it himself? THAT should say something, not necessarily about the message, but in this case, about the MESSENGER.

You look at his posts, and you cherry-pick. Others here do not. We see the fact that Marky disobeys God more than anyone else in here, yet he claims to follow God??? Funny that you miss this.....sure, you could then say that "it is what's in Mark's heart that counts...", and then you would be wrong again. Marky has repeatedly shown that in his heart, he genuinely wishes for people to die. In that heart, he genuinely thinks that he is better than everyone else. And, in that heart, he is upset by the fact that ol' jonnie's still kicking, because his cancer didnt kill him yet. Dont pee on my leg and tell me its raining here--I know better, and you should too.

If Mark TRULY believed in the message for the right reasons, then he would at least make effort to follow his own advice. Lest you forget, God instructed the faithful to LET YOUR LIFE BE YOUR DOCTRINE. God's followers were taught to let their lives be examples for Christ--let me tell you, in case you were not aware somehow, no one here wants to emulate Marky. Not in the spiritual sense, anyways. some may be jealous of the many possessions that yzf brags about, but that is not the way anyways, is it? When yzf speaks, gets repeatedly banned, then speaks again, only to get banned again, and even to have his posts moderated because he cannot be trusted to control himself, how is that living as an example for Christ? He doesnt get banned because of his spiritual stubbornness--he gets in trouble because of his inability to control himself with any sense of the big picture. He LOVES to boast about how people have dogged him "for years", yet even on this point, he fails the instrction of God.

Bottom line is that he is a false prophet--he can boast about the Word all he likes, but when it is all talk and nothing else, no one will ever see what it means to walk with God through Marky's example. That's a fact. Marky isnt here trying to get me, or dennis, or Kevin to convert--he has already pronounced us "beyond all hope" many times over. The only reason he is still here is because it is safe for him to blow up here, and not safe for him to do it in his "real" life. If the people he sees every day knew this side of him, it is a sure bet that Mark's life would not be anywhere near what he thinks it is right now. So, he comes here and spits it out, so that they dont have to see it. And that way, he gets to continue his fake little facade. Strange though--the ones who should be hearing about his anger issues the most, the ones in his church, are the ones he works the hardest to hide it from. THAT is not "living as an example for Christ".....so dont tell me to thank him for squat.

Me, an expert? Not even close. I wish I had YZF's knowledge of scripture. I pluck away with verses like a 6 shooter while Mark is able to recall scripture like a saw gun. God bless him, (and you too, lest you think I'm showing favoritism).

Now to answer your question, "When someone gives you advice on how to do something, would you follow their advice when even they dont follow it??", in some cases, most certainly. And you do too. Would you listen to a heroin junkie tell you to not do heroin, obviously yes. But let's work back to a more gray area. Let's think of this issue a bit more deeply. When you recognize truth, does it matter what the source of the truth is? Does it matter if the source does not seem to be capable of upholding the truth it delivers? I see how this can be difficult.

You're right, I do cherry pick. I don't have time to read everything. When things get nasty, I usually move on to another page. In defence of YZF, if I recall correctly, he has apologized on occasion or at least admitted his own failure. Let him say so for himself. Know this, the gospel message is by design, devisive. The Word of God itself, claims to cut people. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you dislike the message and the messenger. I'm no better. I see YZF a bit like Peter. He hacked a guy's ear off. Has YZF committed physical violence to anyone here for the cause of Christ? I don't think so. Should YZF wish someone to die? Absolutely not. Haven't we been over this before? Jesus says hating your brother is the same as murder.

By human standards, if YZF is a bad person, then you may be a lot better. That's good for this world but things are different for the afterlife. By the God of the Bible's standards, if you've told a single lie in your life, it is considered that you've broken all parts of the law and are in jeopardy of going to a lake of fire which burns eternally.

YZF regularly points out the situation of man in respect to God in a biblical perspective. He presents the Gospel message. I do not know much about you. If you don't think mankind is largely in trouble with God, then I call into question your beliefs, that is, if you claim to be a Christian.

Why do you respond to any of this? I'm trying figure this out. If you truly think YZF is a butt hat, why waste your time in the religion forum? If you don't agree with him, why even engage? It makes no sense for the people who constantly argue with him to continue. Ask yourself, what is going on in my personal life where I feel it is necessary for me to spend time arguing with YZF about a God I don't believe in? I'm no psychiatrist, but I really wonder why people who do not like the idea of God spend so much time arguing about it. It leads me to think that there is some unfinished business going on inside. So tell me why are you here?

I am here because I want to be where ever people are discussing God. Because I hope to be used by God to help other people understand what God wants.

i have a better chance going to heaven than yzf


Defend this from a biblical point of view. First, is there a heaven? What does God require for entrance into his kingdom?

Me, an expert? Not even close. I wish I had YZF's knowledge of scripture. I pluck away with verses like a 6 shooter while Mark is able to recall scripture like a saw gun.

which is absolutely worthless in the quest to be saved, if all you do is rip verses off from memory to boast about your knowledge or self-perceived superiority. A humble man who needs to look everything up is in better standing with God than a man who is so full of himself and knows every word--this is fact, supported by so many scriptures, such as the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. God is not looking for arrogance--but HUMILITY. As for not knowing the words, the Bereans did not know them by heart either--I think you know what I am getting at there.

It is good to be that knowledgeable, yes, but it is a complete waste when one knows that much about the Word, yet refuses to ever follow it in his own life....wouldnt you say? At that point, I have to question the motivation of that person to learn the Bible so well--why learn it like that when you dont even apply it to yourself? That was my point.

Let's think of this issue a bit more deeply. When you recognize truth, does it matter what the source of the truth is? Does it matter if the source does not seem to be capable of upholding the truth it delivers? I see how this can be difficult.

Stop right there----if everyone recognized it as truth, then God would not need the faithful to take on the great commission, would He?? If we all knew it as truth, there would not be any other religions, for we all would know instantly that they were wrong. Yet many people do not recognize what Mark says as truth. This is common sense. Therefore, God has instructed His followers to let their lives be a billboard for Him--to SHOW that truth so that people will see it for themselves.

You do not understand--when we see marky spouting off verse after verse, only to ignore them all himself, we get the picture that HE doesnt think they are the truth, at least not enough to follow himself. So, from that very basic and real point of view, if you do not know that truth, you are lost. This is a common position, very common. And, if you are lost, if you do not know that truth, all you will see when marky preaches to you is an arrogant, self-obsessed, dishonest windbag that cant even bother to practice what he preaches. LET YOUR LIFE BE YOUR DOCTRINE.....LET YOUR YES BE YES AND YOUR NO BE NO...these are commands from GOD, found in the same Bible that marky recites from memory. Yet he doesnt do either of these. That was my point there too. it is no good to only do half the job....the pharisee held to the teaching from a legalistic point of view--he went through the motions, so that everyone could see how "good" he was. And in God's eyes, he failed. Well, in here marky is the same way--he knows the motions, thats for certain, but the humility is nonexistent. something else from the bible--WHOEVER HUMBLES HIMSELF SHALL BE EXALTED, BUT WHOEVER EXALTS HIMSELF SHALL BE HUMBLED....

You're right, I do cherry pick. I don't have time to read everything. When things get nasty, I usually move on to another page. In defence of YZF, if I recall correctly, he has apologized on occasion or at least admitted his own failure. Let him say so for himself. Know this, the gospel message is by design, devisive. The Word of God itself, claims to cut people. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you dislike the message and the messenger. I'm no better. I see YZF a bit like Peter. He hacked a guy's ear off. Has YZF committed physical violence to anyone here for the cause of Christ? I don't think so. Should YZF wish someone to die? Absolutely not. Haven't we been over this before? Jesus says hating your brother is the same as murder.

apologizing on occasion is not what Marky claims to be--thats the point here. He openly claims to llive by this doctrine---yet it is so unbelievably easy for him to turn his back on that doctrine to act like he is so far above everyone else.

As for the highlighted portion, I need to ask you a very important question--do you believe that there is only one correct path? Here is another--do you believe that anyone who preaches something other than that one true message from God is on the same true path? If you were to take what is in God's word, change it to mean what you wanted it to, and then preach it, would you be in the right? You see, what I highlighted in your quote is a perfect example of this---everyone knows it is wrong to act like that, but while you admit it is wrong according to the Gospel, marky pulls out scripture to defend his act of wishing death, and he proclaims it is acceptable!

You said that you are here to be in a place where people discuss God, because you want to be able to be used for God's purpose. How can you be effectively taught as such by people who do not stick 100% to that Word? How can someone who makes it up as he goes to justify his sins really get you closer to that right path? We are not talking about your everyday human thing here--sincerely wishing for someone to die is ridiculous, and trying to use the bible to justify sin is even more ridiculous. But who am I to say, right? Go ahead and follow his example if you like.

By human standards, if YZF is a bad person, then you may be a lot better. That's good for this world but things are different for the afterlife. By the God of the Bible's standards, if you've told a single lie in your life, it is considered that you've broken all parts of the law and are in jeopardy of going to a lake of fire which burns eternally.

no one here, myself included, wants to be "better" than marky. but the lies, the deceit, the fact that he crosses the line further and more often than anyone else--that is a different story. I for one would just be content if he would learn to be honest, stop lying about his actions, and come to reality. the message is not what I have an issue with--it is the messenger. one of my flaws is that I do not have any tolerance for liars. he is by all means welcome to his pov, but if you are going to go as far out as he does to proclaim himself to be of that doctrine, then he needs to either follow it or stop proclaiming. So many people here have caught him up in lies about things he says or does....if he cant walk the walk then he needs to stop trying to talk the talk. That is ALL I am saying. there are too many frauds out there already without him being added to the pile.

Why do you respond to any of this? I'm trying figure this out. If you truly think YZF is a butt hat, why waste your time in the religion forum? If you don't agree with him, why even engage? It makes no sense for the people who constantly argue with him to continue. Ask yourself, what is going on in my personal life where I feel it is necessary for me to spend time arguing with YZF about a God I don't believe in? I'm no psychiatrist, but I really wonder why people who do not like the idea of God spend so much time arguing about it. It leads me to think that there is some unfinished business going on inside. So tell me why are you here?

A better thing for you to do is to ask him why he continues to persist in acting the way he does. Remember, according to marky, I am demonic and straight from hell, right?? You seem to be under the impression that I dont believe in God, and yet you are asking me this question. Wouldnt it be better asked to the one that claims to be on the right path why he continues? You say that what I am doing is wrong, and he says I am hopeless, so why ask me about doing this? Why not ask the "righteous" one why he insists on stooping to our level so persistently?? It is a fair guess that he isnt doing it for God's sake, I can assure you. he is not winning souls by making death threats, cheering on hardship and cancer, and wishing for death to come to people...

I am here because I want to be where ever people are discussing God. Because I hope to be used by God to help other people understand what God wants.

To do so, you first must understand yourself what God wants. When you have a good grasp on that, compare it to the example you are following, and see how it measures up, ok? In your opinion, does God want:

-arrogance
-earthly boasting about material possessions
-constant insults
-praying for pain, suffering and death on others
-self-perceived superiority

OR, does the Bible teach:

-humility
-compassion
-selflessness
-honesty


you tell me....

i have a better chance going to heaven than yzf

Defend this from a biblical point of view. First, is there a heaven? What does God require for entrance into his kingdom?



-arrogance
-earthly boasting about material possessions
-constant insults
-praying for pain, suffering and death on others
-self-perceived superiority
YZF ^^^^



-humility
-compassion
-selflessness
-honesty


you tell me....
Me ^^^^^

Thank you Sky!

which is absolutely worthless in the quest to be saved, if all you do is rip verses off from memory to boast about your knowledge or self-perceived superiority.

You are correct.

Stop right there----if everyone recognized it as truth, then God would not need the faithful to take on the great commission, would He??

I partially agree. While God does not need anyone to accomplish anything, it would be preferable that his chosen messenger is an adherent to the doctrine. Also we know from scripture that God's word does not return void. This is in no way justifying the actions of the messenger. Ultimately the message should be presented in love. That's scriptural.

You do not understand--when we see marky spouting off verse after verse, only to ignore them all himself, we get the picture that HE doesnt think they are the truth, at least not enough to follow himself.

This would be inconsistent. I'll let him defend himself.

As for the highlighted portion, I need to ask you a very important question--do you believe that there is only one correct path? Here is another--do you believe that anyone who preaches something other than that one true message from God is on the same true path? If you were to take what is in God's word, change it to mean what you wanted it to, and then preach it, would you be in the right?

There is only 1 path. No to the second question. Absolutely not to the third question.

You see, what I highlighted in your quote is a perfect example of this---everyone knows it is wrong to act like that, but while you admit it is wrong according to the Gospel, marky pulls out scripture to defend his act of wishing death, and he proclaims it is acceptable!

Where I see offense, I call offense. This is offensive. Let me get to a bottom line. Whether or not Mark is a follower of Christ, would it be possible for you to forgive him in this matter? You should. Now if you both are followers of Christ, then even more so. Are you both followers of Christ? Answer this. If you both are, is it not a distraction to everyone else for you to verbally slug away at each other. Not that it is wrong to disagree. The tone that the 2 of you take with each other is not in love, is it? Correct me if I am wrong.

You said that you are here to be in a place where people discuss God, because you want to be able to be used for God's purpose.

I said I am here because I want to be where ever people are discussing God.

How can you be effectively taught as such by people who do not stick 100% to that Word?.

Aside from God (really the trinity), who can stick 100% to the Word? No one can. If Adolf Hitler quoted scripture, I could learn from it. I wouldn't be going to his church but I think you can understand my point. No one is perfect. Scripturally, teachers are held to higher standards, but is Mark claiming to be a teacher? No, he's just a dude.


You seem to be under the impression that I dont believe in God, and yet you are asking me this question.

I ask because I don't know. If both of you are Christians, than I would think that the 2 of you should be working together. Correct?

You say that what I am doing is wrong, and he says I am hopeless, so why ask me about doing this?

I didn't say that what you are doing is wrong. Where is this? Allow me to explain if you can find it.

To do so, you first must understand yourself what God wants. When you have a good grasp on that, compare it to the example you are following, and see how it measures up, ok? In your opinion, does God want:

-arrogance
-earthly boasting about material possessions
-constant insults
-praying for pain, suffering and death on others
-self-perceived superiority

OR, does the Bible teach:

-humility
-compassion
-selflessness
-honesty

you tell me....

You sound correct here. I would take it a step further and say first God wants obedience. Through the obedience comes the humility, etc. We all need to be more obedient.

Again, if you are both Christians you should reconcile. Do you think this is true?

the Bible is absolute truth...therefore, those who oppose it can only be proven wrong...period

this might stand a chance of being true, if two people in the history of the planet had ever read the whole thing and agreed on every single interpretation of the truths it contains.

it is possible with a math textbook, why not with the source of all truth ?

design intent.

confusion and decption is the central "Truth" the bible reveals.

Jon's not dead yet?!
Mark must not have impressed God too awful much. He couldn't even do him that one little favor. Sheesh.

You sound correct here. I would take it a step further and say first God wants obedience. Through the obedience comes the humility, etc. We all need to be more obedient.

You are missing a few things though--before one can be obedient, one needs to find the humility to learn what is true and what is not. Before you can agree to obey God, dont you first have to be humble enough to set yourself aside to hear God's message?? Only then, after that takes place, can one actually obey God.