Due to the movie coming out, we should at least talk about witches once in a great while. Does $100 feel up to it?

And secondly, do christains watch this movie or do they fear for their souls each time Harry uses his wand?

I'm going to use a yzf tactic and continue talking to myself....
Are not witches made because of christains? Would you not say that witches came from rigorous christain backgrounds?

I'm going to use a yzf tactic and continue talking to myself....
Are not witches made because of christains? Would you not say that witches came from rigorous christain backgrounds?

About ~80% of the ones I've met were from "religious" Catholic backgrounds.

Do you, Mr Tofuball (And thx for replying), believe, being at least an ear shot away or further, witches can manipulate your life, even as a christain?

considering that god gives satan all of his supernatural powers, and gives demons all their supernatural powers, it seems only logical that god would allow witches to draw upon the power given to satan to do his holy evil work.

so if a "witch" CANNOT do genuine evil magic she/he is a faker, not a worshipper of the true, god sponsored, satan.

heh.
way to say, "wow, honegod got it 100% right again , oh how can I agree without implying he knows all ? "

some witches have real power...
You believe in witches and they have powers. I'm going to guess that they have no powers over you since you are a REAL Xtain. Is this correct?

didn't say demons. We see witches and witches are the subject here.

HOw can Witches have powers when there is no such thing as demons?

Why ask the question then?

demons are serious business, I don't claim to have any power over them, but I do claim God is more powerful


Know your bible....Luke 10:19, with Jesus you do.

do Christains watch this movie or do they fear for their souls each time Harry uses his wand?

We cringe at every abomination to the Lord. How can true believers comfortably endure that which blasphemizes and profanes his authority and sanctity?

Bow down, and worship the Lord Jesus Christ.

some witches have real power...


I do not believe anyone in 2007 (or since the time of the disciples and their associates) has any supernatural gift/power to cast out demons, heal the sick, etc...only by prayer, and in very rare instances

heh, so if someone supernaturally healed aids cases by praying to jesus that would PROVE that jesus was satan ?

{aids being gods smite at queers}

conversly, praying to jesus and FAILING to cure the same aids cases would prove that god hates fags.

would you pray to jesus to cure aids cases if you knew you would be sent to hell in their place ?

{sent to hell for doubting the justice of the disease, succeeding because you were chosen for salvation.}

Obvious only to our eyes, there is only one demonic magic spell that I know of and that is possession. And even that spell is called out for question. Why? We now know that people have mental disorders. Witches, however, don't posses people. At least I don't recall.

I do recall that witches like to influence people from afar. They would light their candle, mix ingredients, say some words and I suppose it really works. If you call attention to them which affects them negatively, I suppose they run up to their attic and whip up a storm for you to stop whatever you were doing that pissed them off.

I don't think their so-called spell will affect you, if indeed it was you who pissed them off. But I say that outside of their knowledge, the focused activity the witch is performing is really tricking themselves to feel better. And that is the real magic behind all this.

I don't believe in any kind of magic from witches based on my argument presented here. I think my argument is sound. So do you really think witchcraft works outside of themsleves?

know your context, the subject of Luke 10 is the 72 specially called witnesses, who were granted supernatural sign gifts

I do not believe anyone in 2007 (or since the time of the disciples and their associates) has any supernatural gift/power to cast out demons, heal the sick, etc...only by prayer, and in very rare instances


Way to deny the Holy Spirit....

where do you think (true) witches get their power? most of them will say they harness both good and bad spirits, but the fact is they don't know....any supernatural power used for one's own personal interest is always demonic, and the occult is rampant in these religions....the demons keep these people entertained, but they know they have them! once the door is opened, they come in, and they stay!
And yet we hear of witches converting to Christianity. Christian to witches. So obviously neither side is stronger nor convincing than the other.


I don't think possession is called into question, it's just more difficult to identify, because demons are more subtle in "civilized" 2007 It is called 'better media coverage.'



again, a few of them have real power, but they are on a short leash, like Satan himself....and that's what makes the Tribulation so horrifying: the leash is GREATLY extended Unless they are the FBI, they surely aren't taken very seriously and tracked down to stop their awesome powers of influences.


this argument isn't intended to convince you, you're going to believe what you believe, unless some unique experience happens to change your mind
you might be correct in this regard.

no offense to kevin :)
Still waiting for Kevin's response.

their original purpose was to authenticate the message, not to impress people)...Paul used his gift of healing progressively less during his ministry

as paul moved farther and farther away from the message of jesus his supernatural powers were withdrawn by god, since paul, and the church were no longer preaching the authentic message but substituting their own musings for what jesus had preached.

this trend accelerated until the point where a "bible" was compiled entirely devoid of any fragment of the actual message and all supernatural power was withdrawn from the church, since there was nothing there that god wanted to authenticate.

I don't hear of too many Christians becoming witches, I suppose it happens...which just proves they were never in the faith to begin with
Yours is a good argument. What would we see if we measure levels of faith? Clearly, when a person leaves the faith, they never had the correct amount of faith.

I don't believe in any kind of magic from witches based on my argument presented here. I think my argument is sound.

Wait, so what's your argument? Please don't tell me that you consider "I don't think witchcraft is real" to be the basis of your argument. That's some pretty weak sauce, even for you.

Wait, so what's your argument? Please don't tell me that you consider "I don't think witchcraft is real" to be the basis of your argument. That's some pretty weak sauce, even for you.

the focused activity the witch is performing is really tricking themselves to feel better. And that is the real magic behind all this.
i hope this passes your inspection.

What would we see if we measure levels of faith? Clearly, when a person leaves the faith, they never had the correct amount of faith.

it might not be the volume of faith that changes so much as the container that gives the faith its shape.

Not a bad analogy ^

You're not some refugee of America's black budget projects, are you?

it might not be the volume of faith that changes so much as the container that gives the faith its shape.
Like 1 cup water is poured into different shaped glasses. Is your point stating we are all given the same amount of faith?

Like 1 cup water is poured into different shaped glasses.

yep.



Is your point stating we are all given the same amount of faith?

no. like IQ, everybody is individually different but as a group falls within a range, sort of thing.

so an indiviual might have a cup, another might have a gallon.

I think the individual volume remains constant, and wants to find the right sized container to put it in.

{obviously I am male, a female might see faith as being an empty container wanting to be filled. :D}

{obviously I am male, a female might see faith as being an empty container wanting to be filled. :D}
:rofl:
The model is faith may exist in varying degrees, inaccessible to mere humans as far as we know. So you model yourself to squeeze the faith into an appearance what you feel the faith level should look like. For example, if faith was this bright attractive liquid, people who loves getting attention would squeeze their vessel to radiant their body for all to see. Like a peacock sort of speak.

Therefore, each individual has the correct amount of faith.

it's a gift of God...there are many people in this world that never give a second thought to ultimate questions, and there are many trivial minds in 2007

case in point: "Simpsons" #1 at the box office
I agree. It could be a sign of our times. Showing whether it means we are in a comfortable time or need a relief of troubling times, depends on how you look at it.

I agree. It could be a sign of our times. Showing whether it means we are in a comfortable time or need a relief of troubling times, depends on how you look at it.


I'll disagree.

the faith is not the gift, the ability to see that the container {christianity} fits is the gift.

also, most peoples faith is not a single focussed lump in a single container, we spread it out, government, spouse, brakes, sunrise, church.

note I am mixing faith and love together, they do go together but the ratio is variable.

yzf will see a need to add fear to the mix, it seems optional to me.

the focused activity the witch is performing is really tricking themselves to feel better. And that is the real magic behind all this.

You might be right here, but this is not an argument. Present facts, studies, testimony, not just what you think sounds cool. I could say that your posts on this forum are really just a practice of you tricking yourself into believing that God isn't real. I could say that you rely on some type of open forum in order to believe a lie of convenience. I could say that you go to work, make money and earn a living simply to deceive yourself into believing that you have a purpose in life. See my point? None of this is based on anything further limited speculations that ultimately amount to nothing.

Skepticism is good but deriving confidence in your assertions simply through skepticism is pretty lame. Sharing these assertions as fact is even worse.

considering that god gives satan all of his supernatural powers, and gives demons all their supernatural powers, it seems only logical that god would allow witches to draw upon the power given to satan to do his holy evil work.

so if a "witch" CANNOT do genuine evil magic she/he is a faker, not a worshipper of the true, god sponsored, satan.

Wrong.

Witchcraft does not equal Satanism or anything of the like. This is the problem with a lot of people, they try to view everything as either with or against Christianity. There are light and dark sides of magic, just like anything else, but there is no Hell (or heaven for that matter), all-knowing evil force, or battle between two sides in the Craft.

Now, on a side note, could I do "evil" magic? Sure. Can I do "good" magic? Sure.

Here's the rub: All a spell is (and I know I've touched on this before) is stylized prayer. If a Christian goes to church and prays their grandmother recovers from an illness, or that a family member gets a desperately needed new job, and I do the same thing as a spell, guess what? The forms are different, but the intent is the same. The goal is the same.

Honestly, the only major difference between the Craft and Christianity is that it seems the Christians are after world domination, and witches don't give a fuck what you do, as long as you don't bring it to our doorstep.

I'll disagree.

the faith is not the gift, the ability to see that the container {christianity} fits is the gift.

also, most peoples faith is not a single focussed lump in a single container, we spread it out, government, spouse, brakes, sunrise, church.

note I am mixing faith and love together, they do go together but the ratio is variable.

yzf will see a need to add fear to the mix, it seems optional to me.

I see. We place certain amount of faith to what we perceive as most dependable. People can place most if not all to god, government, friends, individual. This is 'Thier' custom world. The amount of faith they allocate isn't the issue although some here make it a point that it is.

You might be right here, but this is not an argument. Present facts, studies, testimony, not just what you think sounds cool. I could say that your posts on this forum are really just a practice of you tricking yourself into believing that God isn't real. I could say that you rely on some type of open forum in order to believe a lie of convenience. I could say that you go to work, make money and earn a living simply to deceive yourself into believing that you have a purpose in life. See my point? None of this is based on anything further limited speculations that ultimately amount to nothing.

Skepticism is good but deriving confidence in your assertions simply through skepticism is pretty lame. Sharing these assertions as fact is even worse.
I know, this is your pet peeve. Try adding to my thoughts, share some of your experiences to counter these thoughts or something in that nature.

anyone after "world domination" is not a true follower of Christ

I Thessalonians 4

Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

Umm, hello, "everyone who isn't a Christian is doomed to hell" sure as fuck seems like world domination to me. That's just a paraphrase of "you're with us or you're against us", or "he who is not my friend is my enemy".

where do you think (true) witches get their power? most of them will say they harness both good and bad spirits, but the fact is they don't know....any supernatural power used for one's own personal interest is always demonic, and the occult is rampant in these religions....the demons keep these people entertained, but they know they have them! once the door is opened, they come in, and they stay!

Now hold on just a minute.

No "true" witch (whatever the fuck that is, lol), claims to have "power". I know I don't have "powers" any different than you do. Now, can I be "psychic" (such a dirty word nowadays...) at times? Sure. But, so can you. It's not a "power", it's being in tune with things.

Every single person on this forum, hell, in this world has, at some point, experienced psychic phenomenon.

Has anybody here ever just "known" the moron in the lane next to you was going to change into your lane without looking? Or known there was a cop with a radar gun around the next curve? Who here has received a phone call from a distant relative you haven't seen or spoken to in a long time within an hour or so of thinking about that person?

Can I cast a spell to make someone love me? Sure, but it won't work. No more Mark praying that I find Jesus will work. People have free will, and that's a fact. Can I cast a spell to bring in a little extra money when things are tight? Yes. Can I influence events around me to achieve an outcome greater than what would be if I didn't? Absolutely. Is that "power"? No. Absolutely not. Why? Because sometimes, shit just doesn't work. If it was "power", then I could do it freely, at will.

Take a look at Miss Cleo as the most ridiculous example. Here's a woman claiming to be psychic, and selling her services for $4 a minute. Now, excuse me, if you're so fucking psychic, go get yourself the Lotto numbers and be done with it. If I was an all powerful witch, capable of making everything fall to my every whim (like some people would think witches see of themselves), don't you think I would have made myself an Unbeatable Luck Spell and gone to the main event at the World Series of Poker?

Witchcraft (another word made evil and ridiculous by the Church) is simply a way of being a little bit more in tune to nature and your surroundings than others are. It's being a little more grounded in the here and now than in "what happens when we die", which is the obsession of Christianity. It's not about power, controlling other people (although there are "witches" who claim the can do so... It's bullshit) or any of that stuff.

Hi $100.

Umm, hello

Would you care to explain what it is that holds you convinced about witchcraft?

Hi $100.



Would you care to explain what it is that holds you convinced about witchcraft?

Convinced of what? That it works for me? Because it does. Does it work for you? Maybe, maybe not. My path is my path, and is only what I make of it. And, I constantly refine my path. :)

You gotta be more specific with your questions though. I'm not Miss Cleo. ;)

Witchcraft does not equal Satanism or anything of the like. This is the problem with a lot of people, they try to view everything as either with or against Christianity. There are light and dark sides of magic, just like anything else, but there is no Hell (or heaven for that matter), all-knowing evil force, or battle between two sides in the Craft.

that is what gets up the christians noses about harry potter, he doesn't NEED christs god for his supernatural powers.
which {:)} by default puts him on satans side.

same thing with science, by not using god as the source everything that science does is a work of satan.

because god ONLY gives super powers to satan, to delegate as satan sees fit.








Now, on a side note, could I do "evil" magic? Sure. Can I do "good" magic? Sure.

this puts witchcraft in the same camp as science, so science should be able to figure it out.



All a spell is (and I know I've touched on this before) is stylized prayer. If a Christian goes to church and prays their grandmother recovers from an illness, or that a family member gets a desperately needed new job, and I do the same thing as a spell, guess what? The forms are different, but the intent is the same. The goal is the same.

don't see it.

a prayer is a supplication to a supernatural critter to do some specific magic.

what critter are you begging indulgance from ?

not god, so something else that can randomly violate the laws of physics.

a nonhuman consciousness that hides from measuring sticks.

when hermione casts a spell there is no peeves style spirit granting her wish, she reaches out and makes it happen, consistantly she rearranges reality to conform to her will, science.

'real' witches don't, eh ?

EDIT: Man, you gotta take Mark off your avatar, I thought you were him. Oh well, I leave my post as it is:

that is what gets up the christians noses about harry potter, he doesn't NEED christs god for his supernatural powers.
which {:)} by default puts him on satans side.

And that's about as fucking stupid as the Catholic church having a problem with the DaVinci code. Hello! It's fiction for fucks sake. Harry Potter is a fantasy book for teens. You guys get your fucking panties in a wad about everything.

same thing with science, by not using god as the source everything that science does is a work of satan.

because god ONLY gives super powers to satan, to delegate as satan sees fit.

Like I said before, you're applying the rules from a football game to someone playing baseball. Apples and oranges my friend, apples and oranges.

don't see it.

a prayer is a supplication to a supernatural critter to do some specific magic.

what critter are you begging indulgance from ?

I don't "beg indulgence" from anyone. That's the difference. Christianity requires you to throw yourselves at the feet of God as unworthy. That's part of my problem with it.

not god, so something else that can randomly violate the laws of physics.

a nonhuman consciousness that hides from measuring sticks.

And, again, I think that light/dark are two sides of the same coin, and I believe God/Satan are two sides of their same coin. Think about it, there can be no Satan without God, right? But then, using that logic, there can be no God without Satan. If there's no threat hanging over you of Hell or being cast out of Heaven or whatever, then what makes anyone "do the right thing"? I've told you before that what you call God, what Muslims call Allah, what Catholics (I know you consider them separate from Christianity, I consider you all sects of the same thing, kinda like the Sunnis and Shi'ites...) are all different faces of the same power.

I find it hard to believe that a being/thing powerful enough to create the universe, the people, animals, trees, etc, would choose to limit itself to ONLY being accessible to Christians. The contradiction there is so incredibly stupid, only a total moron wouldn't be able to see it.

when hermione casts a spell there is no peeves style spirit granting her wish, she reaches out and makes it happen, consistantly she rearranges reality to conform to her will, science.

'real' witches don't, eh ?

How the fuck can you call a character from a children's fiction book a "real" witch? Tell you what, I'm going to link this thread to a witch a hell of a lot more knowledgeable than me, and then you can talk to her about real witches. Trust me, she's the real fuckin' deal.

Man, you gotta take Mark off your avatar, I thought you were him.

heh, sorry.

comes up to my knee, a YSR-50 does.



I don't "beg indulgence" from anyone. That's the difference. Christianity requires you to throw yourselves at the feet of God as unworthy. That's part of my problem with it.

that is what prayer IS, supplication, requesting a higher power to do something at your request




How the fuck can you call a character from a children's fiction book a "real" witch? Tell you what, I'm going to link this thread to a witch a hell of a lot more knowledgeable than me, and then you can talk to her about real witches.


at best what you have described is science that is being treated as religion.

if you beg invisible spirits to do magic for you, it's religion.
if you do something and something happens it's science.


there's a series of books about a computer programmer who is kidnapped to a world of magic, he developes a programming language for working with "magic".

yes, more fiction but it illustrates the point, if it is real it is the domain of science, and y'all 'witches' are treating it like religion, implying to me that it is NOT real.