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Join in on this Discussion and see the pictures. Click here-> : Hybrids: Don't buy the hype


BATMAN
09-28-2005, 12:47 PM
Toyota is now measuring "time on the lot" for the Toyota Prius in hours, not days. The average Prius goes unsold for only about 20 hours after it hits a Toyota dealer's lot, according to a recent report.

With gasoline prices now around $3 a gallon, you might think it makes a lot of sense that hybrid cars are hot sellers.

Actually, it doesn't -- at least not a lot of financial sense.

They may make a social statement you're interested in, but if you want to save money because of rising gas prices, you're heading down the wrong road, at least for now.

Some simple calculations by our partners at Edmunds.com revealed the following:

A hybrid Honda Accord costs about $3,800 more than the comparable non-hybrid version, including purchase, maintenance and insurance costs. Over five years, assuming 15,000 miles of driving per year, you'll make up that cost in gasoline money if the price of gas goes up immediately to $9.20 a gallon and averages that for the whole period.

For the Ford Escape hybrid, the difference is less stark. To make up the difference over five years between the Escape hybrid and a Ford Escape XLT, gas prices would have to average $5.60 after you purchase the vehicle.

The Prius itself, however, could be an exception. There is no such thing as a non-hybrid Prius, making a direct comparison impossible. Compared to a Toyota Camry, a car with similar interior space which costs about $100 more over five years, the Prius driver could actually save a small amount of money.

There is a tax deduction of $2,000 available for purchasing a hybrid vehicle, but that translates to a one-time tax savings of less than $500 for most buyers. That's nice, but it's not enough to make much of a difference in the long run.

The recently passed energy bill includes a tax credit that would range from $500 up to $3,400, depending on the fuel efficiency of the car, for vehicles purchased after Jan 1., 2006. The credit could be enough to create some real savings. For example, Ford estimates the tax credit on a Ford Escape hybrid to be $2,600.

The new rules are extremely confusing, though, said David Mellem of Ashwaubenon Tax Professionals in Wisconsin, and the IRS hasn't yet published an official list of what vehicles will qualify for what sort of tax credit.

Certainly, though, most car buyers who are considering a hybrid will be far better off waiting until 2006 to make that purchase, said Mellem.

In the meantime, there are other ways to save gas that won't cost you any extra money.

Drive more gently
First, change the way you drive. There's no trophy for being first to arrive at the red light, or beating everyone away from the green. In driving tests by Edmunds.com, simply going easy on the gas and brake pedals garnered gas mileage improvements of about thirty percent. Hybrid buyers pay thousands for that kind of savings. (For more, see Gas-saving tips put to the test.)

Check out diesels
Second, consider buying diesel. Diesel cars cost only a little more than gasoline-powered cars, but they get far better fuel mileage. Also, because their engines are more durable, diesels have better resale value than gasoline-powered cars. That alone should be enough to make up any additional cost of the vehicle, leaving the gas-money savings in your pocket. Also, diesels will qualify for tax credits under the new tax rules. Again, diesel buyers might want to wait until next year to buy. (For more, see It may be time for diesel.)

Shop smarter
Third, look more closely at the actual fuel economy numbers when you buy and consider what you're willing to give up. The promise of hybrids is better fuel economy with the same, or more, engine power. But, for that, you pay more for the complex technology and, to date, long-term resale value is unknown.

You could simply decide that you could do with less engine power or a smaller, lighter vehicle. That way you could get better fuel economy while paying even less money for the vehicle itself. And you don't have to buy a subcompact.

For example, an two-wheel-drive Ford Escape hybrid has a sticker price of about $26,900 and gets an EPA-estimated 33 miles per gallon in combined city and highway driving.

A Ford Focus wagon gets an EPA-estimated 28 mpg in combined driving but it costs about $10,000 less. With the Focus you get about same amount of interior space for passengers and even more cargo room.

Also, you'll have a much easier time negotiating a good price on the Focus wagon than you will on the Escape hybrid, which typically sells at full sticker price.

There are, of course, an endless number of similar comparisons out there. The point is, don't just get sucked into the hybrid hype. If what's really important to you is saving on fuel, do a little thinking before you buy. There are lots of options available.

SpartanTS
09-28-2005, 12:57 PM
Hybrids are a complete rip. Hell you can buy a new Civic that gets 30/40 MPG and it won't cost you $24k either.

One would think that the diffusion of innovation would come into play, and once everyone buys into the hype the price would go down; but car makers are continuing to push hybrids upmarket, so I doubt that we'll see Toyota making the bread and butter base Camry LE with a hybrid option.

The Prius is ugly. Looks are subjective, but I a lot of people agree with me about the looks of the Prius.

The Civic Hybrid is an okay bargain at 20k, but it's slow as hell. The Accord Hybrid is the most expensive trim of an Accord you can buy. That doesn't make any sense. You have to pay a $3500 premium to save $10 bux at the pump.

I easily get 28 MPG in the city and I average above 35 MPG on the open road. That's good enough for me.

$100T2
09-28-2005, 01:15 PM
I had considered a hybrid for a while, but the cost of them, even used, is prohibitive.

BATMAN
09-28-2005, 04:23 PM
it reduces pollution....... a factor for the tree-hugging Liberals..........

SpartanTS
09-28-2005, 04:25 PM
I've yet to understand while people rave over the Prius when Toyota makes gas guzzling SUV's and trucks...

Yet GM and Ford get all the flack for polluting the environment with their gas guzzling SUV's.

$100T2
09-29-2005, 01:40 AM
it reduces pollution....... a factor for the tree-hugging Liberals..........

I couldn't give two shits about tree-huggers or Liberals.

2ndGen.Rocket
09-29-2005, 07:58 AM
It goes to prove that people are fucking stupid. I saw a Mitsubishi commercial last night offering free gas for a year to anyone who buys a 2005 Mitsu. Everyone in my house was like "holy shit! That's alot!"

It's really not at all. First I imagine there is some restriction on that claim, such as only being able to fill up once a week. Secondly, assuming that you put 30 bucks of gas in your car, even twice a week, that is still only around $3k a year. That's not that much money, at all.

snowball
09-29-2005, 12:30 PM
you can get a Honda Insight used for 5k thats a good buy.(arron was posting pics on the 7 club of over 80mpg on a tank) All other hybrids are a rip off

snowball
09-29-2005, 12:31 PM
It goes to prove that people are fucking stupid. I saw a Mitsubishi commercial last night offering free gas for a year to anyone who buys a 2005 Mitsu. Everyone in my house was like "holy shit! That's alot!"

It's really not at all. First I imagine there is some restriction on that claim, such as only being able to fill up once a week. Secondly, assuming that you put 30 bucks of gas in your car, even twice a week, that is still only around $3k a year. That's not that much money, at all.
I think its 15,000 miles max

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