and personally i feel as though its just a follow up to all the previous books written as a result of God sending an angel to enlighten a given prophet about whats what:

Qur'an 002.062

Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

kinda interesting

always amazes me what blatant plagiarism the entire Quran is, I don't think there's anything original in it

It could be because they are a derivative of Judaism.

But no, it always has to be Satan with you.

Give people some credit, I think plenty of them are wicked without Satan's intervention.

After all, he's just one guy, he can't be in Guantanamo, Iraq, and Arcata all at the same time. Even God doesn't pull hat tricks like that.

Satan apes everything God does....the "father of lies"

his best trick is convincing 95% of the general populus he doesn't exist

the beautiful irony of this is: lies have made their way into the religious books, causing contradictions and logical errors, and thus turning people off from ALL relgion has to say, not just the worthlessness weaved within the truth. Even Jesus' parables foretold that, but peopel are so confused and conflicted, they just go right back to acting like "self-righteous pharisees" The bible, torah, quran, to some degree are all perverted by man at this point and from contstant translation and loss of meaning through translation. Jesus himself knew it would happen. THIS is why - Creation - keep having to send signs and enlighten more nad more people. Do you think the qur'an was the last elightenment? People are being enlightened all the time! But they are "the seeds that grow among weeds" and no one listens to them. They get mocked for bringing forth such simple truths like PEACE, LOVE, RESPECT, INTELLECT, LOGIC and the thirst for KNOWLEDGE: what would you call those people YZF? dirty hippies? fundamentalist liberals? when will the fingerpointing and name calling end? When will people open their minds? The most hilarious thing about it is, everyone knows those simple things, beyond all the dogma, ritual and scare tactics, WORK. Period. Creation didnt come this far based on the crap we lie to each other about. The God of creation IS evolution itself, not against it.

always amazes me what blatant plagiarism the entire Quran is, I don't think there's anything original in it

In one breath you complain about how the koran is all about world domination and subjigation of women, the next you complain about how it's all copied from the bible... do you not see the irony?

Do we have any Muslims here? I would seriously enjoy a logical/theological discussion on the tenets and foundations of the faith. And please, no pretenders. I'd rather talk to a Jihadist then some wishy washy prayer mumbler.

Heck, how about observant orthodox Jews? Give me some Talmud and I"ll give you some Tanakh.

and finds like the Dead Sea Scrolls prove it


Assuming they were correct to begin with. After all, if the Quaran was a lie when it was given to Mohammed, perhaps the Bible was a lie when it was given to the Apostles.

And how was that scroll dated, pray tell?

And yet that still makes you wrong because C-14 has dated material back 9000 years.

You contend that the world is only 6000 years old.

You can't have it both ways, either C-14 is wrong always, or the world is older than 6000 years.

------ Forwarded Message From: Memri <memri@memri.org> Organization: MEMRI Reply-To: <memri@memri.org> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:45:57 -0400 To: <jimdodd@san.rr.com> Subject: Islamist Site Instructs Mujahideen to Foster Anti-War Sentiment in U.S.

VISIT THE NEW MEMRI BLOG AT www.thememriblog.org

Special Dispatch-Jihad & Terrorism Studies Project March 20, 2007 No. 1508

Islamist Website Instructs Mujahideen in Using Popular U.S. Web Forums to Foster Anti-War Sentiment among Americans

To view this Special Dispatch in HTML, visit: http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SD150807 .

In the past few months, Islamists engaged in "media jihad" have increased their efforts to expose as broad a Western audience as possible to their jihad films, which purport to document the growing success of the mujahideen in Iraq and Afghanistan. As part of this endeavor, they have posted jihad films on popular free video-sharing websites such as YouTube, LiveLeak, and Google Video, hoping that such films will tip public opinion in the West against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan * thus pressuring Western governments to withdraw their troops from these countries.

As part of the campaign to foster anti-war sentiment among Westerners, and more specifically among Americans, a member of the Al-Mohajroon Islamist website with the username Al-Wathiq Billah instructed mujahideen in how to infiltrate popular American forums and to use them to distribute jihad films and spread disinformation about the war.

The following are excerpts:( 1)

"Raiding American Forums is Among the Most Important Means of Obtaining Victory in the Fierce Media War... and of Influencing the Views of the Weak-Minded American"

"There is no doubt, my brothers, that raiding American forums is among the most important means of obtaining victory in the fierce media war... and of influencing the views of the weak-minded American who pays his taxes so they will go to the infidel American army. This American is an idiot and does not [even] know where Iraq is... [It is therefore] mandatory for every electronic mujahid [to engage in this raiding]."

"It is better that you raid non-political forums such as music forums and trivia forums... which American people... favor... Define your target[ed forum]... and get to know it well... Post your contribution and do not get into... futile arguments..."

Indicate You Are an American

"Obviously, you have to register yourself using a purely American name... Choose an icon that indicates that you are an American, and place it next to your nickname [in the forum]."

"In my experience, the areas most visited in American forums... [are titled] 'Random Thoughts' and 'What's going on in your mind?'... [The former] takes priority in the American forums, and is highly popular. You should post your contribution there... This should include films of the mujahideen in Iraq, mujahideen publications in English, and images and films of the Americans' crimes, [such as] killing unarmed civilians in Iraq... etc."

"Invent Stories About American Soldiers You Have [Allegedly] Personally Known"

"Obviously, you should post your contribution... as an American... You should correspond with visitors to this forum, [bringing to their attention] the frustrating situation of their troops in Iraq... You should invent stories about American soldiers you have [allegedly] personally known (as classmates... or members in a club who played baseball and tennis with you) who were drafted to Iraq and then committed suicide while in service by hanging or shooting themselves..."

"Also, write using a sad tone, and tell them that you feel sorry for your [female] neighbor or co-worker who became addicted to alcohol or drugs... because her poor fiancé, a former soldier in Iraq, was paralyzed or [because] his legs were amputated... [Use any story] which will break their spirits, oh brave fighter for the sake of God..."

How to Make Americans Feel Frustrated With Their Government

"You should enter into debate or respond only if it is extremely necessary... Your concern should [only] be introducing topics which... will cause [them to feel] frustration and anger towards their government..., which will... render them hostile to Bush... and his Republican Party and make them feel they must vote ton bring the troops back from Iraq as soon as possible."

"Do not... discuss issues pertaining to Arabs or Muslims at all, whether negatively or positively... because this could be a trap for you... In addition, do not ask people to circulate the material [you have posted] in other forums... as these types of requests will expose you..."

Endnote: (1) http://www.mohajroon.com/vb/showthread.php?t=48233 .

********************* The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) is an independent, non-profit organization that translates and analyzes the media of the Middle East. Copies of articles and documents cited, as well as background information, are available on request.

MEMRI holds copyrights on all translations. Materials may only be used with proper attribution.

Amazing how born-agains act like the story of Christ - born of a virgin mother, adored by wise men, performer of miracles, died on a tree or cross, and ascending to the realm of the god(s) is something they invented...

It's a hero-story that predates Christianity by hundreds and even thousands of years. The Egyptians, Mesopotamians, ancient greeks, etc. all had similar tales from which the Christian alegory was plagerized, updated, repackaged, and sold ot the disenfranchised tired of Roman oppression and the corruption of local rabbis.

details about Christ's life, execution, and resurrection were foretold by Moses and the prophets

satan ain't dumb...he knows the Bible better than any man, and apes everything God does

amazing how people were 'aping' the bible thousands of years before Moses, eh? Must be Satanic premonition...

are you converting to Islam?


naaw, just showing that you are RIGHT in saying that Islam apes Christianity.

they too consider infidels to be too stupid to be able to understand the truth and so need to have carefully crafted lies told to them so that their minds will walk the right path despite not knowing why they are walking that way.

our Christian 'leaders' have used that method to herd the flock for centuries, the Mohammedans have just discovered the usefulness of disinformation when the sword is inadequate.

What, and the OT doesn't have a plethora of examples of killing or enslaving the infidels?

nonsense

Right. :rolleyes: Nevermind written history, carved heiroglyphics, etc. provide direct evidence to prior hero myths with precisely the same plot...

In one breath you complain about how the koran is all about world domination and subjigation of women, the next you complain about how it's all copied from the bible... do you not see the irony?

:rofl:

Wow.

wow, another hopelessly weak argument by manntis?

Umm, no, another incredibly accurate statement about how fucking crossed your wires are.

the Quran commands death or slavery for "infidels"...big difference

it's not a question of "stupidity", it's a question of spiritual blindness

--while you run around practically pissing yourself happy at the prospect of all the same death that will occur by God's hand? How is it any different? You speak of Revelations--how the tribulation is coming....how all those who are not on the path will die because God says so. And then you compare it to islam, where the only reason why any of those nutjobs runs around killing the "infidels" is why?? because ALLAH SAID SO....

What was that difference again? THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. In both cases, there is a god, and that god has commanded that those who are "unworthy" are to die.

Like someone else said, you cant have it both ways, chump. Or should we call you 'stump chump' from now on? Since you have to stand on one to be seen....

how does the Bible promote "world domination and subjugation of women"

absurd comment by a complete hack who understands nothing of scripture

someone ask this cheese doodle what he thinks the bible says about a woman's place...what a hypocrite. I still remember the battles this dipstick had with serena on the 7 club about a woman's place...

wow, another hopelessly weak argument by manntis?

no, another argument that stump chump has no legitimate answer for, thats what

it's about time you liberal morons stop spouting random mis-information about the Bible and actually QUOTE something to back up your wacky statements

When people do quote things you just call it lies anyway.

It saves space to do it this way.

the Quran commands death or slavery for "infidels"...big difference

it's not a question of "stupidity", it's a question of spiritual blindness

...

completely different context: the conquest of the land of Israel, a specific time and place

nowhere are Christians commanded to military action

describe the actions commanded for christians at the return of christ.

are they to sit still while jesus battles the antichrist ?

{ note, yes all CURRENT christians are already raptured before jesus returns, but there will be converts that god presumably wanted to be on-site when the battle begins, yes ? }

it's not a "battle"...Christ, as fully God, simply consumes His enemies in a moment of time...the Elect have no part in the battle

God doesn't need human help, and He never did (which is antithetical to Muslim beliefs by the way)


So God is a child playing with ants under a magnifying glass, with a can of Raid to clean up when he's done.

And you wonder why I gave up on Christianity.

And if it turns out you're right, I'll gladly take that punishment. Seems to me the devil is more just than god, even if he isn't right.

"god rules arent going TBA, they are. youre not here to try and change his mind, its already done. know thy god, don't entertain conflicting and illogical delusions, or else you'll align yourself to destruction" is probably the common ground of all religions, really

You are among the blinded, Mark.

Jesus said "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive Mercy" - yet you wish death on some people practically every day. He said "Judge not lest you bring judgement upon yourself" - yet you've outright declared yourself a judge of others. And these are just scratching the surface of your hypocracy.

I don't care what David did - your actions directly contravene the teachings of the man you falsely claim to follow as your savior. That is not only relevant, but irrefutable.

So instead of attempting to defend your hypocracy, you point the finger outward. Another strike against you.

that is a hopelessly twisted viewpoint!

absolutely tragic, but most people are blinded

Perhaps it is. However, I feel I am justified in maintaining it.

No, my life is that good.

I live every day to the fullest, and enjoy every minute. I don't worry about the afterlife because I think we all go to the same place when we're done here.

I'm not of a "Do what you will mentality" necessarily, I don't believe in doing things that harm others. But being free of some of the more dogmatic rules found in many religions makes my life that much more fun.

And if that means that I'm taking Satans side in the event of Christianity proving to be true, then I'll take my punishment, as horrible and everlasting as it may be.

And if that means that I'm taking Satans side in the event of Christianity proving to be true, then I'll take my punishment, as horrible and everlasting as it may be.

Well put. Nobody needs to follow religious texts to be a good person. Just be curteous to others, do not rape, murder, or anything along those lines, and do the best that you physically and mentally can to be a good person. If there really is a heaven or a hell, then we'll find out when we get there

See, but you're now trying to hold us to your standard.

Which is all well and good, for you. But we don't care for your standard.

Maybe I think sitting under a tree eating hemp seeds for ten years is the way to be good. Could you do that? I don't think so.

YZF,

It seems to me that you are an ignorant asshole. I may have only been on this site for about five or six hours, but after reading your posts, I can see that you are extremely devoted to your religion. I applaud you for that.
It is also apparent that you are extremely closed-minded. From what I see, you discount anything (proven or not) that goes against Jesus and/or Christianity. If you truly want to be wise, you should try to consider other people's opinions and be respectful of them. Personally, I try to understand both points of view in any arguement before I formulate any kind of opinion.
Example: Should gay couples be allowed to marry? On one hand, it goes against Christianity for two men to sleep with one another. On the other hand, is it any concern of the public who somebody choses to fall in love with? What matters most is that the person is happy. Being gay is not harmful to the public, right?
I am probably wrong in a lot (or all) of what I said, but this is just my humble opinion. If something that makes me truly happy (be that religion, gambling, premarital sex, drugs, or whatever) earns me an eternity in Hell, then so be it.

YZF,

It seems to me that you are an ignorant asshole. I may have only been on this site for about five or six hours, but after reading your posts, I can see that you are extremely devoted to your religion. I applaud you for that.
It is also apparent that you are extremely closed-minded. From what I see, you discount anything (proven or not) that goes against Jesus and/or Christianity. If you truly want to be wise, you should try to consider other people's opinions and be respectful of them. Personally, I try to understand both points of view in any arguement before I formulate any kind of opinion.
Example: Should gay couples be allowed to marry? On one hand, it goes against Christianity for two men to sleep with one another. On the other hand, is it any concern of the public who somebody choses to fall in love with? What matters most is that the person is happy. Being gay is not harmful to the public, right?
I am probably wrong in a lot (or all) of what I said, but this is just my humble opinion. If something that makes me truly happy (be that religion, gambling, premarital sex, drugs, or whatever) earns me an eternity in Hell, then so be it.

Oh shit... now you've done it...

Oh shit... now you've done it...

Have I incurred Schizo Mark's wrath?

Oh heavens yes.

that's like saying "I'll find out if gravity is real by stepping of a cliff", an incredibly apathetic and dangerous viewpoint

How is that apathetic? It means lacking emotion or animation ya know...

false

I prayed for judgment of a hardened enemy, you know who that is, who has stalked me for years...

Bullshit--"hardened enemy"?? Stalked YOU?? YOU, the guy that threatened to put bullets in my brain and then tried to learn my address so you could come do it? I stalked NO ONE. I merely disagree with your constant spastic endless stream of hypocritical bullshit, and I dont mix words about that. I confront your errors, because you think youre getting one over on everyone. THAT makes me a "hardened enemy"?? hmmm.....if anything you should be THANKING ME....if not for me emailing Mr. Starnes, you wouldnt have proven my point that you hide your true self from your "real friends"....loser


David did the same thing

David also committed adultery--so just because David did it, that must be good? Well, no worries there, youll never have the chance to commit adultery, even if you could find your twig & giggleberries....here's a hint--they are hiding in the same place your hair is!:gay2:

you don't know anything about my life outside this forum

But I do. And everyone here knows what I know....so do you....you are a fraud. :bigthumb:

Oh, one more thing about this "wishing death" bullshit--what about the others that you have wished death upon? Are they "hardened enemy stalkers" too?? Youre an idiot....

no, I said clearly I was a judge of doctrine, and I spend very little time attempting to judge others, except when they hypocritically try to do the same with me

damn near everything you post is a judgment of someone somewhere....how often have you told people they dont deserve to live? THAT is a judgment of THEM, not a doctrine, retard. To you everyone is "worthless", "clueless", "blind"....the list goes on and on. Meanwhile, back at the Hall of Justice, youre still the single biggest hypocrite in the land. Just like when you claimed that your fuckups were "90% jonnie's fault", this is nothing more than a steamy pile of your favorite stew.

the blind man cannot remove the stick from my eye unless he is able to see first!

well that happens to go both ways. And besides, nevermind your eye, whos gonna yank that stick outta your ass??

you can go through your entire life pointing fingers

My name isnt marky....

or realize all that will matter at the judgment (from your perspective) is YOU....yes, YOU, no one else...and your relationship (or lack thereof) with the Judge

All I can say there is that false prophets will be dealt with far more harshly than the average man. Have a good time!!

therefore, worry about your own bee's wax...it's a debate forum, deal with it

As soon as you STFU and deal with the criticism you get from everyone else....until then, smoke a pole.

this debate isn't about me, that is irrelevant

Just a second ago, it was "its a debate forum, deal with it", and now suddenly it's "dont talk about me". yeah, good call.

"Hello, Mr. Hypocrite??"

:asshole:

YZF,

It seems to me that you are an ignorant asshole. I may have only been on this site for about five or six hours, but after reading your posts, I can see that you are extremely devoted to your religion. I applaud you for that.
It is also apparent that you are extremely closed-minded. From what I see, you discount anything (proven or not) that goes against Jesus and/or Christianity. If you truly want to be wise, you should try to consider other people's opinions and be respectful of them. Personally, I try to understand both points of view in any arguement before I formulate any kind of opinion.
Example: Should gay couples be allowed to marry? On one hand, it goes against Christianity for two men to sleep with one another. On the other hand, is it any concern of the public who somebody choses to fall in love with? What matters most is that the person is happy. Being gay is not harmful to the public, right?
I am probably wrong in a lot (or all) of what I said, but this is just my humble opinion. If something that makes me truly happy (be that religion, gambling, premarital sex, drugs, or whatever) earns me an eternity in Hell, then so be it.

jdawg, welcome to the forum. I see you've already met this village's idiot. Youre wasting your time....the jackass still runs around claiming he's ignoring me because he cant hang, but then he PMs me when no one else is looking. He's a complete turd. He is the ultimate definition of owned. The funny thing is that he is most likely a closet sweet tart himself....I must warn you thought--he can bench press 320 pounds, is taller than the average apple, and has a hairline that's running away faster than women run from him. be careful, or you will be the next one that gets death threats from this jackass. And no, I am not joking....the moron actually threatened to kill several people because of an internet forum. A complete waste of oxygen that was obviously meant for a more valuable life form. Lets see, did I leave anything out?? Oh, yeah, his "four years of engineering school"....beware the involuntarily celibate brain over there.

sure, and I understood your point quite well, it's simply wrong

Then why don't you show me why it's wrong and how I can be right? The reason I don't like you is that you are spreading the right message the wrong way. If I were you, I would try to understand why people think/believe the "lies" that they believe in, and then try to dissuade them from believing those "lies." Oh yeah, and calm the fuck down.

fundamentalism is pretty indicative of itself

Blindness can take many forms other than the inability to see. Fanatics are often blinded in their thoughts. Leaders are often blinded in their hearts.

Fanatics are often blinded in their thoughts.
This situation is the perfect application of this statement.

how about the thought life? Christ raised the bar to the intent of the mind (the precursor to external actions), where no one else sees...who can live up to THAT Standard?
If Christ raised the bar to a level unattainable to humans, then we obviously weren't made to go to that level.

Mark, would you consider yourself a Christian Fundamentalist?

but God's Truth never changes, it's people and their whimsical opinions that change

your whimsical opinions included, however buffered by the whimsical opinions of other True Believers.

if you had access to the REAL "God's Truth" you wouldn't NEED to spend 20 years 'studying' the available imposters trying to FIND fragments of God's Truth with which to pummle your fellows.

your whimsical opinions included, however buffered by the whimsical opinions of other True Believers.

if you had access to the REAL "God's Truth" you wouldn't NEED to spend 20 years 'studying' the available imposters trying to FIND fragments of God's Truth with which to pummle your fellows.


I disagree

having access to something only means it is avaolable to you--having access and fully knowing arent the same thing at all.

not true (and I do have access, like anyone else)

the Bible requires intense study to uncover all it's truths, it's a life experience

God also requires that you not only read the book, but that you apply it to yourself first and foremost, before you try to apply it to others. That is where you fail.

I simply believe the Bible, every word of it...in 2007, that's a foreign concept to most people, because their world view is so dominated by the incessant "tolerance"/darwinism chanting of the media and their peers

The reason for that is it is extremely hard for many people to believe what the Bible says. I have a hard time believing that Moses parted the Red Sea and that Mary, a virgin, gave birth to Jesus. I'm not saying that I think that the Bible is wrong, I'm just saying that it's increasingly hard for myself and many people to keep believing that it is true. The only way to believe is to have immesurable faith that there is a God. That is increasingly hard to come by nowadays.

God also requires that you not only read the book, but that you apply it to yourself first and foremost, before you try to apply it to others. That is where you fail.


you know, thats very true!
Mt 7:4
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

might as well reference the bible, since he won't accept other interpretations of the same moral.

The reason for that is it is extremely hard for many people to believe what the Bible says. I have a hard time believing that Moses parted the Red Sea and that Mary, a virgin, gave birth to Jesus. I'm not saying that I think that the Bible is wrong, I'm just saying that it's increasingly hard for myself and many people to keep believing that it is true. The only way to believe is to have immesurable faith that there is a God. That is increasingly hard to come by nowadays.


yea man. what any relgious fundamentalist should realise is that the hard truth (the truth that 'cometh as a two-edged sword', no less) was far too heavy and outlandish to be accepted by the cultures upon the truth was introduced. This goes for basically all religions. To make the truth more "pallatable", the information has been REDACTED, meaning it has been paraphrased, and altered a lot, including the book-writers own interjections in order to even be considered by the fundamentalists of their own time, let alone those of our own time, who not only cannot culturally relate to the material, but also are programmed to take it verbatim, which is even one step further away from the truth of the redacted scriptures accepted by people of the time. Something to consider.

Like wildfire? Christianity destroyed crops and homes while people were powerless to stop it? ;)

part of that is the nature of our society..."science" (human "wisdom") is god...and in the hustle and bustle of 7 billion people and man made stuff everwhere you look, God and His creation is somewhat hidden, or masked

Both science and religion have answers to the theory of creation. Anyone can say that they don't believe it because there isn't evidence enough. You can say that the universe was created by God or science, and if you completely elimenate one, then the other makes sense. Fact is, how do we KNOW that the Bible is true? It could have been made up. Highly unlikely, but possibile. Just as well, how do we KNOW that the Big Bang is really what happened? We don't. Any proof that could be used to support one argument could be used to support the other argument.

how do we KNOW that the Bible is true?

Those who believe it, believe it based on faith that God exists and that the bible is a true text handed down by Him to mortals He chose to document those events. It does not neccessarily mean that their interpretation of the text, or indeed the text itself, is the actual word of a Supreme Being, but that's what they believe.

how do we KNOW that the Big Bang is really what happened?

Those who believe it, believe it based on how observable phenomenon and known data match postulations put forth in the notion of the Big Bang. It does not neccessarily mean that their interpretation of phenomenon leads to the Big Bang being the only possible creation of the universe, only that it is the best explanation that matches said observed phenomenon to date.

. Fact is, how do we KNOW that the Bible is true? It could have been made up. Highly unlikely, but possible.

an essential part of The bible being True is that ALL other 'bibles' ARE just made up.

if there was only one bible then the odds would be 50/50 but when you add all the OTHER bibles into the mix the odds HAVE to drop to LESS than 50/50 that any one of them will be THE one that is not made up, like all the rest.

if you have 100 bibles, and you KNOW that 99 of them MUST be made up does that prove that there must be one that is NOT made up ?

or does the fact that making bibles up seems to be wildly popular introduce doubt that not making up bibles has ever actually happened ?

the fact that god tells people which bible is True and NOT made up would seem to indicate that a True bible does indeed exist.

the fact that god tells different people that DIFFERENT bibles are True seems to indicate otherwise.


the only option seems to be to disregard ALL bibles and rely on gods direct guidance.

except that god has appointed satan as Official Deceiver to mislead humanity in directions opposed to the one true path approved of by god.

hence the creation by god of a written document that satan cannot alter to be used for guidance.

except 99/100 of the offered documents are made up by satan.

so any bible you look at is highly likely to be made up.

for the effects of Believing a false bible, see yzf-r1.

yzf > :bowdown: :screwyou: < his god

Its like you have e-tourettes or something...

the best physicists in the world have always recognized the logic of creation and the non-logic of atheistic fantasies

no, the best physicists in the world have always recognized patterns in reality that look a lot like the kind of patterns that we humans tend to create.

y'all see ANY sort of recognition of a pattern as proof of recognition of god.

take into account that the way the language is shaped, since it was created by christians, it is quite difficult to NOT look like you are referencing god when you talk about "creatures" who are "descended" .

what you are using as proof are artifacts of language.

heh, which is it, nothing or chaos ?

I think you are starting with chaos and defining it as a state of no information, nothing.

the deep, formless, void.

undifferentiated.

and then The Word creates a ripple that, echoing off the boundries of space, results in us as condensations of gods foul breath in a sick parody of a cosmic party balloon.

that god pops in a spray of blood.

hmmm, god invented ticks, and saw to it that there were suitable breeding stock aboard the ark.

the Church as a tick, drawing its entire nourishment from the living blood of the Savior.

the Chosen Tick.

as opposed to the Cursed Tick which gets tossed into the Lake Of Fire.

the 'quotes' ? 50% out of context deliberate mis interpretations and 50% Good Christians spouting the official Pravda.

Nothing is the source of everything, Chaos is the end of everything.

Multiply anything by zero, and you get zero. The universe is obviously an addition problem.

nothing+universe= universe.

I still, and will continue to, contend that the assumed existence of God is no less absurd then the assumed existence of the universe. I just choose to skip the middle man and go straight for: The universe exists because there is no such thing as nothing.

...and yet some still think their little dinner-roll brains are capable of fully grasping the concept of creation. LOL@people's constant self-overestimation

ooooo, I like that.

like god, nothing is something that has to be assumed to exist because there is no such thing on hand to measure.

ooooo, I like that.

like god, nothing is something that has to be assumed to exist because there is no such thing on hand to measure.

You'd really like it when I get drunk then.

I pull out all kinds of weird philosophies that float around inside my head.