KATY, Texas - A plan to build a mosque in this Houston suburb has triggered a neighborhood dispute, with community members warning the place will become a terrorist hotbed and one man threatening to hold pig races on Fridays just to offend the Muslims.

Many neighborhood residents claim they have nothing against Muslims and are more concerned about property values, drainage and traffic.

But one resident has set up an anti-Islamic Web site with an odometer-like counter that keeps track of terrorist attacks since Sept. 11. A committee has formed to buy another property and offer to trade it for the Muslims’ land. And next-door neighbor Craig Baker has threatened to race pigs on the edge of the property on the Muslim holy day. Muslims consider pigs unclean and do not eat pork.
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“The neighbors have created havoc for us and we didn’t expect that,” said engineer Kamel Fotouh, president of the 500-member Katy Islamic Association.

Fotouh vowed to press ahead with plans for a mosque on the 11-acre site, as well as a community center that would offer after-school activities, housing for senior citizens, a fitness center and an Islamic school.

“We just bought it,” Fotouh said. “And we are going to use it. We have the right like any one of them.”

Katy, population 13,000, is a mix of middle-class bedroom-community neighborhoods and small farms on Houston’s western edge and boasts of being the hometown of Oscar-winning actress Renee Zellweger. It is 70 percent white and 24 percent Hispanic.

The Houston metropolitan area has about 170,000 Muslims, according to the Islamic Society of Greater Houston, and among their many mosques is one built in Houston by former NBA star Hakeem Olajuwon.

The Islamic association bought the land in Katy in September for $1.1 million. It said the overall cost of the project has not been determined.

Dispute started with cattle
The dispute began when the group asked Baker to remove his cattle from their newly bought land. Baker agreed but mistakenly thought the Muslims also wanted him off the land his family has lived on for more than 100 years. The rumor spread.

Baker, who makes marble and granite fixtures for kitchens and bathrooms and also owns livestock, said he got so mad he put up a sign announcing the pig races.

Baker’s attempt to offend missed its mark, according to Fotouh. Muslims do not hate pigs, he said; they just don’t eat them.

As for the Web site, the address is virtually identical to that of the Katy Islamic Association. The site claims the neighbors will have to hear the Muslim call to prayer from the mosque’s minaret five times a day — the Islamic group denies that — and offers an audio sample.


Besides keeping track of the running total of post-Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the Web site provides home addresses of some association members and advises people who see anything suspicious to contact the FBI. Many people have sent anti-Islamic e-mails to the site.

Complaints to the county
A few complaints about the mosque project have also trickled in to Harris County offices: The “Coming Soon” sign was on government property; the parking lot gravel was piled up without a permit; the project would increase traffic in the quiet neighborhood.

County Commissioner Steve Radack said traffic concerns can be addressed as they are elsewhere, with off-duty police officers. He also noted the group has said it would comply with rules on drainage and flood control.

Cynthia Blackman wrote Radack that the center was a security risk: “Would you and your family safely and comfortably live next to this 11-acre Muslim mosque and facilities?”

The reaction has not been all negative. Fotouh said one man came to the mosque on a Friday afternoon and apologized for his neighbors. “He moved me, really,” Fotouh said. “The sense of fairness, the sense of standing by the underdog.”

Though he now concedes the Muslims are probably not after his land, Baker said he is obligated to go through with the pig races, probably within the next few weeks, because “I would be like a total idiot if I didn’t. I’d be the laughingstock now because I’ve gone too far.”

Texan has a ranch next to some lame where an Islamic mosque is to be built

Neighbors don't want it there

Man threatens to have pig races during services

Man realizes that they don't really care, but states

Though he now concedes the Muslims are probably not after his land, Baker said he is obligated to go through with the pig races, probably within the next few weeks, because “I would be like a total idiot if I didn’t. I’d be the laughingstock now because I’ve gone too far.”

Screw Muslims. What the hell did they do between the Bronze Age and the Enlightenment? While the Egyptians, Babylonians, Greeks and Persians made great contributions to civilization, where were the Muslims (Jews/Hebrews for that matter) for the best part of the last four thousand years? The three did possessed of a written alphabetic language and a culture with very high literacy rates but just like the modern Muslims today, they did very little with those advantages. They wasted millions of lives praying when they could have been making the world a better place.

And now they, the very ones who consider us as dogs, will take up more space on American soil. Let the pigs fly I say.

I'm always amazed by the people who say "Islam is a religion of peace."

Too many people watching the news and not investigating for themselves.

Read the Koran!

I'm always amazed by the people who say "Christianity is a religion of love."

Too many people watching the news and not investigating for themselves.

Read the Bible!

I'm always amazed by the people who say "Islam is a religion of peace."

Too many people watching the news and not investigating for themselves.

Read the Koran!

Islam is a religion of peace, for Moslems.

But Christians have their own set of blood stained hands.

Religion can, in the right circumstances, be a wonderful thing. On a mass scale, however, it is most commonly used to the detriment of the common man by those in power.

Islam is a religion of peace, for Moslems.

But Christians have their own set of blood stained hands.

Religion can, in the right circumstances, be a wonderful thing. On a mass scale, however, it is most commonly used to the detriment of the common man by those in power.

The only blood on our hands is the blood of Jesus Christ.

Christianity is the religion of reconciliation between a perfect and holy God, and fallen, sinful humanity

no way.

to REconcile, there must have been a time when humanity was conciled, and GOD CREATED THE VAST MAJORITY OF HUMANITY IRRECONCILABLY DAMNED.

the vast majority of humanity is not given reconciliation, and so is utterly hope free of possibly achieving conciliation with the god who UNILATERALLY damned them in the first place.


in Islam, there is no reconciliation promised to anyone...even Muhammad declared "save yourselves! I can't save you from Allah"

exactly, if YOU distance yourself from the ONLY god it is up to YOU to restore yourself to his good graces.

nothing anybody ELSE can do can change how YOU stand with THE god.



in contrast, we worship a just God, and a Savior...there is none like Me

the sacrifice of jesus has NOTHING to do with god having ALREADY DECIDED to SPARE you from the tortures he created the rest of us FOR.

you say God could NOT decide to not throw you into the Lake Of Fire unless someone else died a bloody and terrible death.



"Pig Races for Jesus", I like that.

roast the winner over a fire of korans and pictures of mohammed.

upwind, so allah can get a good whiff of the sweet savour.


note: buy the kindling korans from a Jewish publishing house. ;)

note 2: reminds me of when jesus put a bunch of demons into a heard of pigs and drove them off a cliff.

The only blood on our hands is the blood of Jesus Christ.

that you consider being at least an accessory to bloody murder to be a GOOD thing doesn't bother you a tiny bit ?

you would coldly murder a man to save yourself.

abram climbing the mountain, knife in one hand, the trusting hand of his son in the other.

abraham descending, with bloody knife, alone.

Abraham was not alone for the return trip, you might need to re-read that story.

I think Israelis/jews are a greater threat to world peace than muslims.

Look at the drama that happened with jews and ancient egyptians and nazi germany.

After the Muslims what's next?

Fuck with Communist China?

If so, game over for the land of sans-foreskins.....

Abraham was not alone for the return trip, you might need to re-read that story.

if you have committed adultery in your heart, you have committed the sin of adultery.

if you Truely Believe that something is so, it will be so.

as he climbed the mountain abram Truely Believed that since god said he was going to sacrifice his son, the sacrifice WOULD take place.

the murder was committed, and rewarded.

isaac walking down the mountain was a REWARD to abraham for murdering his son IN HIS HEART to please his God.

There is a difference between murder and sacrifice/killing, though both kill. Only one is a sin, and it's the one that involves hate.

If a man hates a brother in his heart, he has already commited the sin of murder.

There is a difference between murder and sacrifice/killing, though both kill. Only one is a sin, and it's the one that involves hate.

If a man hates a brother in his heart, he has already commited the sin of murder.

so killing a person because of gods hate for sin is not murder.

that leaves the field TOTALLY wide open, murder is RELETIVE to gods current whim, whatever he dislikes at the moment BECOMES rightious to murder for, sin, like adultery.


so much for ABSOLUTE morality.

as opposed to - it is ALWAYS murder to kill a person.

with the possible exception of yourself. {suicide}

if you have committed adultery in your heart, you have committed the sin of adultery.


well i guess i'm gonna burn a whole bunch of times...

Islam is a religion of peace, for Moslems.

But Christians have their own set of blood stained hands.

Religion can, in the right circumstances, be a wonderful thing. On a mass scale, however, it is most commonly used to the detriment of the common man by those in power


mormons are to christians as christians are to jews...

all the different religions probably all started as one religion, it just has several ways to be told. the fighting between religions is just a human "my dad could beat up your dad/my story is better than yours/if you don't play it my way i'm gonna kick your ass" thing. i claim to be of the christian faith but i'm able to look at the different religions and see that there's a lot of similarites in all the religions and they're are pretty much the same i.e. higher power/life after physical death/follow the "rules" and you'll be "rewarded".

it's a wise man who rules by their book, it's a fool who's ruled by it.

anyone who tries to force another person to believe their religion is the only one that matters isn't doing it to help that person, they're doing it for one of two reasons, they're either brainwashed by their own faith, or they're struggling with their faith and by pushing it on others it helps solidify it in their own mind. of course this doesn't apply to those with a lack of faith for any/all religion.

typical post-modern nonsense: there is no absolute truth, or it's not knowable

wrong....the scriptures have been there for 3500 years, there is no excuse for ignorance or confusion



when the Book is God's Word, the wise man is sanctified by the Word of Truth


yet no one can read the Word and see the Truth unless he has ALREADY BEEN FORGIVEN.

making the book worthless.

yz, i've seen your typical responses to posts that contradict your religious beliefs. you without fail cherry pick a piece of the bible that's semi relevant to the conversation and throw it out there and use it to justify your arguement. you then proceed to look down on anyone who disagrees with you or doesn't see things exactly as you do and refer to them as ignorant or foolish or stupid. maybe i have the order reversed, but really, your thumping is typical of what gives people on the fringe of a faith or those who haven't found it yet a total dislike for christianity. your time would probably be better served praying for them to find faith rather than choking them with scripture.

praying for someone is good, but refuting error with the scripture is part of what we are called to do....your viewpoint is completely wrong and anti-Biblical

this is a debate forum, not a psychological help session

and this is a battle for souls, not a psychological issue, Mr. Wizard....or did you forget that part thanks to your overwhelming pride yet again??

Screw Muslims. What the hell did they do between the Bronze Age and the Enlightenment? While the Egyptians, Babylonians, Greeks and Persians made great contributions to civilization, where were the Muslims for the best part of the last four thousand years?

They were busy building flourishing empires with centers of education while the rest of us were in the middle of the Dark Ages... They preserved much of the literature on which the ideas of the Enlightenment were based, while the Christians were out burning it

They were busy building flourishing empires with centers of education while the rest of us were in the middle of the Dark Ages... They preserved much of the literature on which the ideas of the Enlightenment were based, while the Christians were out burning it

lol I love it how they still use a rock to wipe their ass. Good call! :bigthumb:

They were busy building flourishing empires with centers of education while the rest of us were in the middle of the Dark Ages... They preserved much of the literature on which the ideas of the Enlightenment were based, while the Christians were out burning it

Saying somone is a Christian implies that they are followers of Christ.

When they were burning books (yes, they burned bibles too, did you know that? It was punishable by death for anyone who even dared translate the Bible into anything anyone could read (One of the last English examples, William Tyndale)) for the purposes of keeping the population ignorant to allow the "church" to hold it's power over them . . . were these Catholics, truely Christian?

I'm not going to bother to argue over semantics here, nor was anything about "Christianity" really the point of my post. He asked what the Muslims contributed, and I answered, hopefully to rid the notion that all Muslims are and always have been nothing more than backwards, cave-dwelling, war-mongering Neanderthals

Groups within Christianity

There is a diversity of doctrines and practices among various groups calling themselves Christian. These groups are sometimes classified under denominations, though for various theological reasons many groups reject this classification system.[8] At other times these groups are described in terms of varying traditions, representing core historical similarities and differences. Christianity may be broadly represented as being divided into three main groupings:[9]

* Roman Catholicism: The Roman Catholic Church, the largest single body, which includes Latin Rite and several Eastern Catholic communities and totals more than 1 billion baptized members.[3]
* Eastern Christianity: Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox Churches (Copts, Jacobites, and Armenians), the Assyrian Church of the East (Nestorian) with 100,000 members,[10] and others with a combined membership of more than 300 million baptized members.[3]
* Protestantism: Numerous groups such as Anglicans, Lutherans, Reformed/Presbyterians, Congregational/United Church of Christ, Evangelical, Charismatic, Baptists, Methodists, Nazarenes, Anabaptists, Seventh-day Adventists and Pentecostals. The oldest of these separated from the Roman Catholic Church in the 16th century Protestant Reformation, followed in many cases by further divisions. Estimates of the total number of Protestants are very uncertain, partly because of the difficulty in determining which denominations should be placed in this category, but it seems to be unquestionable that Protestantism is the second major branch of Christianity (after Roman Catholicism) in number of followers.[3]

The above groupings are not without exceptions. Some Protestants identify themselves simply as Christian, or born-again Christian; they typically distance themselves from the confessionalism of many Protestant communities that emerged during the Reformation[11] by calling themselves "non-denominational" — often founded by individual pastors, they have little affiliation with historic denominations (Methodists, Baptists, Anglicans, etc.). Others, particularly some Anglicans, would be embarrassed to be called Protestants, and thus insist on being thought of as Catholic, adopting the name "Anglo-Catholic".[12] Lastly, a few small communities employ a name similar to the Roman Catholic Church, such as the Old-Catholics, but are not in communion with the See of Rome.

Restorationists, who are historically connected to the Protestant Reformation,[13] do not describe themselves as "reforming" a Christian Church continuously existing from the time of Jesus, but as restoring the Church that was historically lost at some point. Restorationists include Churches of Christ with 2.6 million members, Disciples of Christ with 800,000 members,[14] The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with 12 million members,[3] and Jehovah’s Witnesses with 6.6 million members.[15] Though Restorationists have some basic similarities, their doctrine and practices vary and can be significantly different.

Since some of these groups deviate from the tenets which most groups hold as basic to Christianity, they are considered heretical or even non-Christian by many mainstream Christian groups; this is particularly true for non-trinitarians.

'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'[/i]


but driving out demons with SATANS power would be exactly what jesus said CANNOT be done when HE was defending himself from accusations of not using god to drive out demons,so to drive out demons WOULD require jesus/god to do the driving and so since the demons WERE driven out jesus/god DID know AND ACTIVLY SUPPORT the "evildoers".

so jesus activly worked to FOOL the evildoers by driving out the demons when called on KNOWING that they were evildoers and not entitled to call on him.

that way the evildoers THINK that they are doing gods work while really sinning most greviously.

and so deserve hell for thinking that because god gave them power to "drive out demons and perform many miracles" that god APPROVED of what they were doing.