Who knows. I think Jesus existed. But what bugs me about the Bible are the conflicts between the two authors, Matthew and Luke. And so I wonder if their story was made up.


Thus...


The below from http://www.bandoli.no/nooriginaljesus.htm

The problem for Jesus is that all these deities are much older than him. You don't have to be very bright to see where the authors of the Gospels got their "devine inspiration" when they created the Jewish version of the popular God-Man/ World-Saviour of Antiquity.

The originality of Jesus

Who was the Son of the highest God, and the biggest healer in Antiquity? He healed the sick and even raised the dead. Hear and behold: former paralysed walked again, the blind could miraculously see again, and the deaf could listen and the mute speak after the Master's gentle touch! But he did not only heal the body, he also healed the soul. They called him Saviour and Redeemer, and he healed both rich and poor, men and women, young and old, slaves and free men, friends and enemies. In one occasion a paralysed man was brough to him in his bed, and took his bed and left walking after the Saviour had touched him. What was this Saviour's name?

… Asklepios.

Who was born by a mortal virgin mother and had a divine Father, and was known as the "Saviour of the world"? Before he was born his parents wandered to a bigger town, and prophets had foretold his birth and that he would be a king. This instigated a search for the infant Saviour by a leading figure who wanted to kill him. After growing up the Son of God was shown all the kingdoms of the world from a high mountain. He also walked on water and when he met his end his mother and his favorite disciple stood by him. He then tells his mother: "Do not cry, I'm going to heaven". When he dies he utter: "It is finished" and the earth trembles and darkness cover the land. Then he ascended to heaven, and his greatest achievement was to conquer death.

His name was of course...Hercules.

We all of course know the Redeemer who was no figure of pagan Greek polytheism. He was the true Saviour who wanted to help and save the sinful humans, by sacrificing himself. But he was willing to do this, out of love, pity and compassion for the humans.

His name:...Prometheus.


Now, who was the real Son of God, born by a mortal virgin mother, and often presented as the venerated newborn infant, or depicted riding a donkey? He healed the sick and did numerous wonders, among those making fine wine from plain water. He was killed but resurrected from the dead and became immortal. The followers of this God often ate a holy meal in a kind of sacramental union with the deity to achieve immortality after their death. One of this god's finest achievements was his death, his sacrifice, which delivers the whole human kind.

The God was the very popular Dionysos.

Who is the "Light of the World", the One, the God who defeated death? Born of a virgin mother, considered the first true King by the people. Who rose from the grave and ascended to heaven. He defeated death, and must be considered the single true God.

Of course the Egyptian Osiris!

Now, the real God often called the "Light of the world", "The good shepherd", "The lamb" and is "…the way, the truth, and the life". Identified with a cross. Who could that be?

Horus, (the son of Osiris).


The original "Light of the world" was the mediator between God and man and was born on the 25.th of December. Local shepherds witnessed his birth and gave him gifts. He had 12 disciples, and when his work was done on earth he gathered together to a last supper, and then ascended to heaven. At doomsday he will return to pass judgment on both the living and the dead. The righteous will go to heaven and the sinful will be killed in a giant fire. Sunday is his holyday, and this religion gave us the seven days of the week. His followers called each other "brothers" and their leaders "fathers". They practiced babtism and established a sacred meal ritual, where flesh and blood was symbolically consumed by initiates. Above earth was heaven, and below the dark hell with demons and the sinners.

The 'Light of the World' is of course the sungod Mithra.


Wise men were led to his birth by a star, and his conception was miraculous. After his birth the ruler in the area wanted him dead and started a hunt for the child. But his parents were warned by a heavenly messenger who told them to escape over the river with the holy child. Here, he was met by shepherds. The boy grew up and did many great deeds, and was the mediator between God and man.

His name: Krishna.

Who then, was the God whose mother was told by an angel that she would give birth to a holy child destined to be a Saviour? Even as a child he instructed the priests in the temple in religous matters, while his parents were looking for him. He started his religious career when he was ca 30 years of age, and surrounded himself with 12 disciples. One of the disciples is his favorite another is a traitor. He and his disciples abstain from wealth and travel around talking in parables and metaphors. This God called himself "Son of Man" and was referred to as "Prophet", "Master" and "Lord". He did many great wonders and healed the sick, blind could see again and deaf hear.
He also walked on water. When one of his disciples tried to do the same, he started to sink - his faith was not strong enough.

We are here obviously talking about Buddha.

Our Saviour cannot be mistaken for any other. He performed countless miracles on earth, miracles well attested to by bystanders. He healed the sick and the crippled, restored sight to the blind, cast out demons, and even raised the dead! His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. While still a child, he exhibited extraordinary knowledge of religious scripture. He reformed the corrupt and worldly religions of his day. He was crucified, rose from the tomb and appeared to his disciples to prove to them his power over death, after which he ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. He was known as "the Son of God!" His message is of love and compassion.

We give you: Apollonius of Tyana*

And there is of course the God-man, the prophet, the founder of a great monotheistic religion that still exist today. He preached that there was only one true God, and his teachings focused on the eternal fight between good and evil. The teachings include the idea of the Saviour will wake the dead and pass judgment on all. The righteous ones goes to Paradise and the sinful straight to a burning Hell. The very word of Paradise stems from this religion. This semigod started his career in his early thirties, and had a following of disciples. As a band of monks they wandered around, preaching their religion. He was eventually killed and sent to heaven.

And he was the Persian Zarathustra.

wow, thought you had a hot date tonight.....must have been a change in plans since your girlfriend lie was exposed....oh well....we had a blast, thanks for asking! The saints pulled off a good win, and they didnt play their best at all, so now it's on to tomorrow, where we will see who wins the Seahawks-bears game. Then we'll know who they will play next week!

man it really must suck to be so sad that you have to make up a social life....

well then, its a good thing you let her air out at a sensible hour, isnt it??

Who knows. I think Jesus existed. But what bugs me about the Bible are the conflicts between the two authors, Matthew and Luke. And so I wonder if their story was made up.

care to elaborate on that?

20 years. 20 years of you studying the bible and you have NO CLUE of what I am talking about?

Ok. I'll pretend you were used as a tool and were told to overlook this conflict.

Matthew said Jesus was born near the end of Herod’s reign. Meaning his birth was around 6-4 BC.

Luke tells us that Jesus was born around the time when the Roman governor Quirinus took a census in Judea. That would place his birth at 6-7 AD, ten years from the end of Herod's death!

I am going to use honegod's virtual time line model here

.....................................
^''''^''''''''''''^''''''''''''''''''''''^''^'''''
6--4BC---'0'---------'6-7AD

___^______________^
A TEN YEAR GAP!
STFUNO0BKTHX

the article is a bit misleading, but it is interesting to see similarities between 'saviors' in different religions/mythologies.

but they really twisted the myths to try to parallel the story of jesus.

Frankly, I never heard of most of these guys the story told about. I am convinced that all the story's ever written about these people, including jesus, are misleading and is the author's point.

the correct time frame is about 4 BC, most scholars agree on this

the problem is not with the gospels, it is with "historians"

You mean 'your' scholars agree with it. The ones who would likely agree with your ignorant butt.

BTW, which historians? Anyone in particular? I want to know if you know what you are talking about.

because you are known to lie. You lie, you fry. And with your statement, you've already proven you never done any research on this matter.

I don't lie, psycho jonnie just repeats accusations

I had time and read his accusations last night. Jesus Mark. Sometimes I really think you are just playing along. But then there is this nagging feeling of why you are pushing for loneliness hitting 40.

Are you socially worthless IRL as well?

Sometimes I really think you are just playing along.4 years or so ago, I had the same thought... but no one keeps this up for that long if they're not totally broken.

The saddest thing is that Mark doesn't have a single redeeming feature or quality that'd make it worthwhile to look past his religious insanity.

4 years or so ago, I had the same thought... but no one keeps this up for that long if they're not totally broken.

yer kidding me. Mark has been around and doing the same thing for 4 years? Sounds like Mark needs a bigger brother to grab Mark's neck and shove him to the right path.

The saddest thing is that Mark doesn't have a single redeeming feature or quality that'd make it worthwhile to look past his religious insanity.

Unfortunately, you are right. Mark is pretty shallow toward all human lifeforms. And no one will care enough to go toe to toe with him and would rather see him ride it out till his death.

I don't lie, psycho jonnie just repeats accusations

ahem, accusations that your own words and actions prove to be correct, dumbass. Take yesterday, for example, you clearly admitted to the conversation about having no girlfriend, yet you had previously denied that conversation ever took place, even going as far as to wrongfully attack the credibility of someone that you could have helped closer to God! YOUR OWN WORDS are all that were used to make that accusation and to prove it, you retard, so when are you going to start telling some truth?? BE A MAN, not just another moron.

Another fine example just happened earlier today--you tried to cite a source that clearly states "we dont know what the geography was", and you used that to claim that you did in fact know that the continents were all one back then. That is how you fuck up--you make shit up and ASSume things to bolster your point. Well, MY point is, if even your half-ass-cracked website can say "we dont know", why do you have to lie and claim you do know? BECAUSE YOU ARE A LIAR, thats why. Not MY words--YOUR words prove it. Fuck you very much!!:bigthumb:

yer kidding me. Mark has been around and doing the same thing for 4 years? Sounds like Mark needs a bigger brother to grab Mark's neck and shove him to the right path.



Unfortunately, you are right. Mark is pretty shallow toward all human lifeforms. And no one will care enough to go toe to toe with him and would rather see him ride it out till his death.

um, well, many have speculated that marky has already had an older male in his family grab certain, well, other parts, of him....but I dont think that it helped in the manner youre talking about now...:eek:

yer kidding me. Mark has been around and doing the same thing for 4 years?Longer. Here's a dusty gem from 5/23/02...

http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?p=702408&postcount=34

Has he changed at all in the last 5 years? Not that I can tell.

so why are any of you here is the real question, why do you care?No, the real question is, if we're all hell-bound degenerates who don't give a shit about what you have to say, why are you so fucking anxious to log right back in after being banned?!?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

so why are any of you here is the real question, why do you care?

No, the real question is WHY ARE YOU HERE....after all, this place is a complete waste of your time, remember??

That's really something, I recall so many times that this asshole insisted that he was fine until I showed up....but these posts were made four months before I ever came to that forum!!

skydivr73
DoO User
Last Activity: 07-06-06 08:21 AM
Offline

Add skydivr73 to Your Buddy List Add skydivr73 to Your Ignore List

Forum Info Contact Info
Join Date: 09-03-02

By comparison:

http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?p=701915&postcount=16

sad that even many Christians have such frivolous images of Christ

but this is the image all men will see at the judgement day...from Revelation 1

I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

what a great day that will be, when the scoffers and mockers will be eliminated forever....I live for that day

Note the date this post was made:

05-23-02, 12:57 PM

Point? Simple---you have always been the same jackass that you are now....back before I was even on the 7 club, your attitude was the same as it is now, and it isnt a good one. That would perhaps be why you constantly lie about it being your attitude, huh?? Why you constantly try to blame it on others with your "but they did it to me FIRST!!!" bullshit??

You are one pathetic life form....here'a toast to you, may you never reproduce:gay2:

so why are any of you here is the real question, why do you care?
I am here because of you YZF. You have me rivited to the glowing display while my emotions ride like a rollercoster. I just can't quit you, Mark. I CANT QUIT YOU!

I haven't posted anything of a religious nature in the lounge in quite awhile

REALLY??

How about this--

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=122594#post122594

but if she did not cheat, you have no grounds for divorce and you are in adultery with whoever you are with

Isnt that point of view directly form your religious beliefs?

How about this?

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=122558#post122558

divorce has no scriptural grounds except infidelity

"scriptural" does not qualify as "of a religious nature" to you now?

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=122188&postcount=40

I don't know what's in your heart....you sound sincere, if perhaps a bit confused on exactly what you believe

I would make an effort to be in a Community that honors the Truth and honors Christ...I don't see that in the catholic system at all, because there are so many false teachings inherent in that system

do you believe in salvation by works?

Not of a religious nature, right?? HMMM.....

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=122186&postcount=39

the catholic system has a long, dark history...no question about it....it's a system of cathedrals, money, power, and greed that has very little to do with the message of Christ

the scriptures clearly state "forsake not the assembling of yourselves together"...it's supposed to be a Body, a Community

sadly, most modern churches are a far cry from the early churches cited in the Book of Acts (before the apostacy of Constantine about 300 A.D.)

All of those posts were made within the last 7 days, and none of them are found in the religion section. Not one. Zip. Zero. Nada.

But then, you could be talking about the 7 club, right??? HMMM.....how many posts have you made over there recently that are of a religious nature??

Lets start with this:

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?p=6519124#post6519124

sure there is (in the imagination of atheists)

did you sign up just to post that? :rolleyes:

here you go again, talking about atheists...that's not of a religious nature right? WOW, it sure does belong in the "engine conversion" section, doesnt it??

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?p=6517564#post6517564

amazing how pervasive that fantasy is

--that one's you, talking about the different theories of dinosaurs, as brought up many times in RELIGIOUS threads....but no, posting that in the engine conversion section is relevant, right?

:asshole:

here's a few from the lounge itself--you know, the place you just claimed you havent talked religion in for quite some time?? Right at the very end of last month, what's that, two weeks???? WOW, that's a LONG TIME considering you just signed up there the beginning of December again....

http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?p=6473324&postcount=66

oh you're religious, hot shot....everyone on this earth is

you simply adopted a (very common) atheistic religion: "goo-to-you" darwinism

http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?p=6473722&postcount=69

actually, those who take communion outside the faith bring judgment on themselves

and I'm not talking about the catholic version, which is a charade

http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?p=6473726&postcount=70


questioning everything is part of human nature, and good....I certainly went through my rebellious college years

but you can't sit in the grandstands forever, or you will never accomplish anything for God

why are we here?

http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?p=6474589&postcount=78

same old tired nonsense I've heard literally thousands of times from trivial minds

sad to realize how many reject the 3500 year history of The Book

http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?p=6474594&postcount=79

more old news

regardless of when the Birth is celebrated, it would become a humanistic, materialistic grab-fest

http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?p=6475598&postcount=84

the wise men brought gifts, that may have had something to do with it as well

regardless, Christmas has become hopelessly materialistic, and that is sad

http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?p=6475718&postcount=86

the date, December 25th is, that's it

the actual birth of Christ likely occurred sometime in the spring

http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?p=6476039&postcount=88

I'm not sure when the Dec. 25th date was adopted....likely several hundred years after Christ

as usual, I point the finger at the Roman Catholic system for still more apostacy/pagan idolatry....the sad legacy of that system has been a black stain throughout history

and here's a little hint: they have nothing to do with the true Church

Those last several posts were less than 2 weeks ago, chief....that's "quite a while" for you?

Face it, you're a liar and a moron....you cant even keep your own story straight, why would anyone trust you to properly tell God's story to them? Every day in here, you make some claim or another, and every time, you get your ass owned by the fact that you lie about something and it gets thrown in your face....and to think, you are so busy running around calling me or dennis "demonic", than you cant be bothered to be truthful about your own shit!

So, when's brian gonna get his apology??:bigthumb:

:owned:

Those last several posts were less than 2 weeks ago, chief....that's "quite a while" for you?You have to remember that Mark has no long-term memory. He doesn't even remember what he posts from day to day, let alone a week or two ago. :D

The interesting side effect is that he's the only forum member who can be counted on to repeatedly accuse others of the same things he does and says himself without even a glimmer of recognition of the irony and hypocrisy involved.

I rather wish there was a place where religious arguements could take place that did not involve the personalities of the participants as part of the dispute.

I find it amusing that christianity has to postulate that satan started other religions that exactly mirror christianity, BEFORE christianity, just to fool people into thinking christianity is the copy just because it was invented AFTER the other religions.

that is the sort of twisted reality we get when the god of lies gets his power from the all powerful god of truth.

http://livingontulsatime.com/blog/images/this_is_not_him.jpg

Frankly, I never heard of most of these guys the story told about. I am convinced that all the story's ever written about these people, including jesus, are misleading and is the author's point.

no... the author's point is that these savior figures from other mythologies/religions predate jesus and served as the creative inspiration for the jesus savior christianity story. however, he derives support for this theory by twisting the actual mythologies or leaving out important details until what's left really does look like the jesus story.

for instance...

***

"We all of course know the Redeemer who was no figure of pagan Greek polytheism. He was the true Saviour who wanted to help and save the sinful humans, by sacrificing himself. But he was willing to do this, out of love, pity and compassion for the humans.

His name:...Prometheus."

prometheus was of the order of the titans, gods who ruled the world before the olympians. he helped the olympians fight against his titan brethren and was spared as a result. he felt bad for men and gave them the gift of fire, earning zeus's (king of the olympian gods) wrath as a result. zeus had him chained to a rock and set a vulture to come by everyday and devour his liver. it would grow back and the vulture would eat it again the next day. sucks.

***

"Who was born by a mortal virgin mother and had a divine Father, and was known as the "Saviour of the world"? Before he was born his parents wandered to a bigger town, and prophets had foretold his birth and that he would be a king. This instigated a search for the infant Saviour by a leading figure who wanted to kill him. After growing up the Son of God was shown all the kingdoms of the world from a high mountain. He also walked on water and when he met his end his mother and his favorite disciple stood by him. He then tells his mother: "Do not cry, I'm going to heaven". When he dies he utter: "It is finished" and the earth trembles and darkness cover the land. Then he ascended to heaven, and his greatest achievement was to conquer death.

His name was of course...Hercules."

Hercules/Heracles was the son of zeus (king of the olympic gods) and a aclmene (a woman). unfortunately for the author, zeus was a womanizer and had mad sex with tons of mortal women, siring an assload of half god/half human supermen who ran around and did amazing things. he also actually had sex with them, which makes me wonder how the author could think heracles' birth was a virgin birth. at any rate, zeus's womanizing is what earned heracles the ire of a 'leading figure who wanted to kill him.' that 'leading figure' was zeus's wife/sister, hera, who was queen of the olympian gods and was understandably pissed at her husband's infidelity.
etc.

bottomline:
the author of that article fucks around with the myths because he is straining to make a point. he is trying to show how these savior myths predate the jesus story and that the creators of the jesus story simply plucked his story from earlier stories. however, he distorts the myths until they are almost unrecognizable. that makes the article about 20x less believable to anyone who knows anything about any of the myths he refers to.

aznpoopy, you are right, and wrong.

yup, he distorted the myths as we today understand them.

but the distortions were each based on some feature that COULD flex the way he twisted it. plus his twisting consisted mainly of dropping details while leaving the big features pretty well intact.

hercules' mother WAS a virgin, until the main god relieved her of that liability.

Hera could have played the part of satan, except the jews already started him off as male.

point taken. but i still say his argument is flawed.

if you want to look at REAL comparisons to christianity/judaism with respect to greek mythology, you can find much more significant similarities.

one good example would be prometheus fashioning man out of clay at behest of cronus, for instance.

I don't think he is after proving that the reason the bible was originally written in Greek is because the greeks were the best storytellers, rather he is showing that the jesus legend is expressing a common motief found in the gods created by other civilizations, the sumerians, babalonions, egyptians, etc.

Much more so than English.

aznpoopy
I really think the jesus story was made up with the exception of the person Jesus. If Matthew and Luke can't get their story right, what does that tell us if it isn't correct? A mix up? Then it isn't god's word now is it? That would make jesus just a man and is the author of the link and my opinion.

Look here my bitches. Something close to home.
Paul Bunyan
Bunyan's birth was strange, as are the births of many mythic heroes, as it took seventeen storks to carry the infant (ordinarily, one stork could carry several babies and drop them off at their parents' home). Paul and Babe dug the Grand Canyon by dragging his axe behind him (Not by the great flood you tool!), and created Mount Hood by piling rocks on top of their campfire to put it out.

EDIT: And you can make an arguement here that there was no Jesus. Do you really think there was a Paul Bunyan? I thought so but no one knows for sure. Was there a Jesus? Why hasn't anyone find anything in the records besides the dead sea scrolls?

What history book are you referring to?

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Mysteries-Was-Original-Pagan/dp/0609807986/sr=8-1/qid=1168904420/ref=sr_1_1/104-4102417-0285526?ie=UTF8&s=books

Not a bad read. Perhaps A tad repetitive.

Only dates that come out of my ass came from figs, my friend. Didn't our friend honegod asked us to be civil?

Lets start with Josephus Flavius. A Jewish historian. Reports say he lived as the earliest non-Christian who mentions a Jesus.

Are you interested in hearing more?

At least yer honest. So what now? Should I view all of your responses as 'not interested', and a waste of my time to consider your thoughts?

Should I view all of your responses as 'not interested', and a waste of my time to consider your thoughts?

Bingo.

that josephus passage is really famous yzf. you should look into it. he was part of a jewish rebellion who switched sides and became a roman sympathizer after the rebellion was put down.

iirc it's the only purely non religious historical document that makes a reference to jesus, as josephus was a contemporary of jesus's time. he only makes a passing reference to jesus.

above and beyond that, it is a fascinating read in its own right. alot of insight into jewish/roman stuffs around the turn of the millenium. definitely worth a read.

you need a life...seriously

you need to shut the fuck up until you learn how to stop lying out your ass...seriously

Can you two move your shit to smack talk section?

If you arent going to hold any debate on topic, how bout excusing yourself and go elsewhere. I'm on Honegod side on this. Lets debate on religion. everything else take it to smacktalk or somewhere else. We have enough people interested to hold a debate without you two being present.

Hercules/Heracles was the son of zeus (king of the olympic gods) and a aclmene (a woman). unfortunately for the author, zeus was a womanizer and had mad sex with tons of mortal women, siring an assload of half god/half human supermen who ran around and did amazing things. he also actually had sex with them, which makes me wonder how the author could think heracles' birth was a virgin birth. at any rate, zeus's womanizing is what earned heracles the ire of a 'leading figure who wanted to kill him.' that 'leading figure' was zeus's wife/sister, hera, who was queen of the olympian gods and was understandably pissed at her husband's infidelity.
etc

Well...

Why dont we examine deeper how Hercules myth resembles Jesus in many areas. Yes, Hercules was born as a human from the union of God (Zeus) and the mortal and chaste Alcmene, his mother. (Enter God and Mary)

Similar to Herod who wanted to kill Jesus, Hera wanted to kill Hercules.

Like Jesus, Hercules traveled the earth as a mortal helping mankind and performed miraculous deeds.

Like Jesus who died and rose to heaven, Hercules died, rose to Mt. Olympus and became a god.

Hercules gives example of perhaps the most popular hero in Ancient Greece and Rome. They believed that he actually lived, told stories about him, worshiped him, and dedicated temples to him...

...so...

Likewise the "evidence" of Hercules closely parallels that of Jesus. We have historical people like Hesiod and Plato who mentions Hercules. Similar to the way the gospels tell a narrative story of Jesus, so do we have the epic stories of Homer who depict the life of Hercules. Aesop tells stories and quotes the words of Hercules. Just as we have a brief mention of Jesus by Joesphus in his Antiquities, Joesphus also mentions Hercules (more times than Jesus), in the very same work (see: 1.15; 8.5.3; 10.11.1). Just as Tacitus mentions a Christus, so does he also mention Hercules many times in his Annals.

And most importantly, just as we have no artifacts, writings or eyewitnesses about Hercules, we also have nothing about Jesus. All information about Hercules and Jesus comes from stories, beliefs, and hearsay.

Should we then believe in a historical Hercules, simply because ancient historians mention him and that we have stories and beliefs about him? Of course not, and the same must apply to Jesus if we wish to hold any consistency to the study of history.

Well...

Why dont we examine deeper how Hercules myth resembles Jesus in many areas. Yes, Hercules was born as a human from the union of God (Zeus) and the mortal and chaste Alcmene, his mother. (Enter God and Mary)

Similar to Herod who wanted to kill Jesus, Hera wanted to kill Hercules.

Like Jesus, Hercules traveled the earth as a mortal helping mankind and performed miraculous deeds.

Like Jesus who died and rose to heaven, Hercules died, rose to Mt. Olympus and became a god.

Hercules gives example of perhaps the most popular hero in Ancient Greece and Rome. They believed that he actually lived, told stories about him, worshiped him, and dedicated temples to him...


the story of heracles parallels jesus story only in the most simplistic fashion.

1. he was half god. there are many many MANY half gods in greek mythology.
2. someone wanted him dead.
3. he went on a journey and did amazing miraculous things.
4. when he died he ascended to another level.

this skeletal outline parallels jesus's story because it parallels just about every story ever.

1. luke skywalker was half born of the force. his father was the chosen one and his mother was a non force sensitive layman.
2. vader/emperor wanted him dead (like herod) or wanted to corrupt him (like satan - jesus's test).
3. luke's heroic journey takes him from tatooine to endor, where he does all kinds of amazing things using the force. he destroys the death star, duels vader twice, converts his father and destroys the emperor.
4. when he dies he will become one with the force, just like obi, yoda and anakin.

the differences between jesus and heracles (or luke skywalker), on the other hand, are numerous.
-jesus is not super strong. he doesn't lift up moutains or slay mythical beasts.
-jesus wasn't burned to death by a cloth soaked in hydra blood.
-jesus's magical poison longbow was not used in the trojan war.
-jesus didn't perform 12 awesome labours.
-jesus didn't get his very own constellation when he died (engonasin)

perhaps the biggest difference is that heracles's (or luke's) death made (or will make) no difference for the state of mankind whatsoever in the greek myth, whereas jesus's death means a great deal in the christian story.

And most importantly, just as we have no artifacts, writings or eyewitnesses about Hercules, we also have nothing about Jesus. All information about Hercules and Jesus comes from stories, beliefs, and hearsay.

Should we then believe in a historical Hercules, simply because ancient historians mention him and that we have stories and beliefs about him? Of course not, and the same must apply to Jesus if we wish to hold any consistency to the study of history.

that's way beyond the scope of the argument. there's a whole field of study devoted to proving or disproving the existence of a historical jesus. i would argue that it doesn't even matter. if it's a matter of faith, it certainly doesn't matter. christians will continue to believe in jesus regardless, as they should. faith is belief in the absence of proof, after all. if it's a matter of science, it's really a moot point to try and prove that some person actually existed at a particular moment in time.

hehe I liked the Starwars comparison.

I agree Jesus's death means a great deal in the christian story. I argue that the stories themselves surrounded jesus were just written better than the predecessors.

And so, historical Jesus may have existed, perhaps based loosely on a living human whom told of great wisdom, even though his actual history got lost. But this amounts to nothing but speculation and is another subject to argue about and I am apologise. However, Im simply pointing at an abundance of evidence supporting the mythical evolution of Jesus, which I am trying to prove here. Which may include the possibility of a non existent jesus.

How do you mean he exist and fables come and go?

Hand crafted by men, how 'bout the Bible offers fear. An offer weak minds can not refuse.

inspired by God

the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

fools reject the Word of God to their own eternal demise
I disagree.
Lets find a way to get back on topic

wrong

Greek was and is the most descriptive language in the world

and yet people confuse words like "young woman" to mean "virgin", "many" to mean "40", etc. Go figure.