Aside from the couple who comes to my home every couple of months, I've started a relationship with a JW at work. We've been eating lunch together for the last couple of months. He's pretty hardcore JW.

Just like with the others I have avoided the trinity debate. I'm focusing on things like election and how most JW doctrines do not show up in history. It's very tough making points with him but he has said that just by reading the NT, it does look as though my interpretation of Election is true. He still doesn't agree with it himself though. He doesn't believe election was true in OT times.

Suggestions?

he doesn't believe Election was true in the O.T.?

Isaiah 45:4 (KJV)

For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

see also Isaiah 65:9, and 65:22 ...Divine Election under the old covenant is irrefutable

Thanks Bro!!!

ha YZF you truly have no clue, i say something about the JW's and you want me to talk to someone who isn't even part of the religion, atleast my husband was one and my MIL is one i think that gives me a better understanding

Keep in mind that the JW bible has differences in the wording. Also, nothing in the scriptures YZF-R1 gave say anything about people electing another person, simply that iIsrael had been chosen by the narrator.

nah, even in OZ where voting is mandatory, JW's still wont vote because it goes against their scriptures

dude don't even be posting freakin links about JW not only do i have a walking bible on speed dial i actually have the scriptures right here in my freakin living room

ha YZF you truly have no clue, i say something about the JW's and you want me to talk to someone who isn't even part of the religion, atleast my husband was one and my MIL is one i think that gives me a better understanding


Where'd this come from?

update?

We decided to work through the JW book called "What the Bible really teaches". In my opinion, it's starts off on the wrong foot and takes the reader completely off track with regards to the sovereignty of God and purpose of this life.

The POV from the JW is that God never intended the earth to be like it is right now and that he will someday soon restore the paradise that it once was. Can you see where this is false? It is exremely hard to get him to budge. I hit on topics and we never get back to them. For instance, I remarked that a good bit of JW theology is not found in history. If the JW teaching on the Gospel is not the same as christendom's Gospel then basically God wasn't saving anyone from the time of the apostles until the 1870's when Charles Russell showed up. Either God wasn't saving anyone or the Gospel has changed and this really doesn't add up. The JW answer is that Jesus predicted a great apostasy would occur. So then all other "christians" except for JWs are fooled by this apostasy and the only true "christians" are JWs. The rest of the world's christians are a group that is really "christendom" and they are not true christians.

i said something about JW's he told me to talk to you, i passed it off because i knew what i had said was right, only to find out that he wants me to talk to you who has no real knowledge of JW's except for a couple of people who knock on your door and some dude you work with

i said something about JW's he told me to talk to you, i passed it off because i knew what i had said was right, only to find out that he wants me to talk to you who has no real knowledge of JW's except for a couple of people who knock on your door and some dude you work with

I don't think that's very nice of you to say that I don't have a real knowledge of JW's. I've been studying really hard over the last 10 months on comparative and historical theologies. In the middle of this I've been interacting with them and studying their books.

how is that not nice?? 10 months is nothing, you are a beginer and the fact that you stated in your OP that you wanted to know what you could talk to them about proves that you have no real knowledge of the subject

misty wins

how is that not nice?? 10 months is nothing, you are a beginer and the fact that you stated in your OP that you wanted to know what you could talk to them about proves that you have no real knowledge of the subject


Now hold on a minute. Sure, I'm no expert on JW theology, but I know enough about them to know that many doctrines that they hold to have no evidence in the history of the followers of Jesus prior their distinctive teachings originating with Charles Russell. It's like this, I decided to study the field of diamonds and in the middle of this, somebody handed me a cubic zirconium. I took a good look at it and it didn't match up with the others. It's properties were vastly different, in fact it wasn't a diamond at all.

are you saying that you are trying to disprove the JW religon?

are you saying that you are trying to disprove the JW religon?

I don't know what you mean by this question. We need to agree on terms. JW is a religion. Christianity is a religion. Hinduism is a religion. The JWs believe that they are the only true Christians and that everyone else who considers themselves a "christian" but who is outside of the JW teaching is not a christian. If you want, I'll get a JW book and show you that this is exactly what they teach.

I don't hold the authority to label anyone a christian or not but I do have the ability to investigate doctrines, history, the Bible and to compare and contrast.

are the JW the only doctrine you've investigated thus far?

OMG, you do not need to get me any books maybe if you actually read my post you would know that my husband was a JW for nearly 22 years and his mother has been one for 30 years or so, also another point i would like to make which i have said all along ALL religons have their interpritations when it comes to the bible and god, they all profess to being the be all and end all, why on earth should JW's be any different?

are the JW the only doctrine you've investigated thus far?

No, and I haven't thoroughly investigated it either. It wasn't my intention to be studying it at this point.

cus JW does have some valid points. its like they discovered better meanings from the bible and felt they should make their own religion since it breaks away from other habits, imo.

OMG, you do not need to get me any books maybe if you actually read my post you would know that my husband was a JW for nearly 22 years and his mother has been one for 30 years or so, also another point i would like to make which i have said all along ALL religons have their interpritations when it comes to the bible and god, they all profess to being the be all and end all, why on earth should JW's be any different?

Here's my point, if you don't give a rat's patootie, then by all means you can make a statement like "ALL religons have their interpritations when it comes to the bible and god, they all profess to being the be all and end all, why on earth should JW's be any different?". But if it dawned on you that there must be some truth out there and that it couldn't be true that all religions are true, then you'd start to investigate on your own.

Has your husband been disfellowshipped?

cus JW does have some valid points. its like they discovered better meanings from the bible and felt they should make their own religion since it breaks away from other habits, imo.

My mil searched every religion before she chose to be a JW and that is one (of very many) reason why she chose it, i myself have been schooled in Christianity and Catholicism have to agree with it as well

Here's my point, if you don't give a rat's patootie, then by all means you can make a statement like "ALL religons have their interpritations when it comes to the bible and god, they all profess to being the be all and end all, why on earth should JW's be any different?". But if it dawned on you that there must be some truth out there and that it couldn't be true that all religions are true, then you'd start to investigate on your own.

Has your husband been disfellowshipped?
yes, he did it him self he was not "kicked out"


i don't believe any religion to be the truth, i think that if there was any truth it was lost a very long time ago by inadequate translations and to much story telling, that is why of my own choice i will never be apart of any religion, i do however want to know about it, i will ask the questions til i am satisfied with the answer (not that it always happens)

i myself have been schooled in Christianity and Catholicism have to agree with it as well

You agree with JW theology over Christianity and Catholicism? Is this what you are saying?

yep pretty much but only in theory

yep pretty much but only in theory

Do you agree with their doctrines that teach:

God is not completely Sovereign over his creation
The theme of the Bible is not Jesus but is the return of the kingdom
The Gospel of "Christendom" is not the correct gospel
That all references to the elect refer to the 144K from Revelation

Do you agree with their doctrines that teach:

God is not completely Sovereign over his creation
The theme of the Bible is not Jesus but is the return of the kingdom
The Gospel of "Christendom" is not the correct gospel
That all references to the elect refer to the 144K from Revelation

now it's your turn to hold on, i agree with abit of it not all of it as it makes the most sense i do not however believe in any religon

now it's your turn to hold on, i agree with abit of it not all of it as it makes the most sense i do not however believe in any religon

Let me get this straight. You do not believe that any religion is true, but in considering Christianity, you believe that JW theology makes the most sense according to what the Bible teaches. Can you demonstrate this with any of the doctrine points I've made? Or is all of this just based on some things you've been taught mixed in with your own personal feelings? Do either of these things prove truth? Your measurement for truth is too shallow. Don't be offended at me. You probably just don't care that much, right?

Let me get this straight. You do not believe that any religion is true, but in considering Christianity, you believe that JW theology makes the most sense according to what the Bible teaches. Can you demonstrate this with any of the doctrine points I've made? Or is all of this just based on some things you've been taught mixed in with your own personal feelings? Do either of these things prove truth? Your measurement for truth is too shallow. Don't be offended at me. You probably just don't care that much, right?

your right i don't believe religion is true, your right i really don't care,

hey yzf by don't you bend over and i'll stick the truth right up your fucken ass

hey yzf by don't you bend over and i'll stick the truth right up your fucken ass

You would have to remove his 'roommate' first.

your right i don't believe religion is true, your right i really don't care,

I appreciate your candor, thanks.

more like rudeness

Oh no...YZF thinks he is a mod again!

I have come up with a good question for JWs. If you have JW friends, write this down. Here's some quick background information. JWs doctrines highly differ from Christian doctrines in such areas as the Gospel, the overall theme of the Bible, the Diety of Christ, the nature of Hell, Eschatology, the afterlife and the whole of "Election". Of course one could say that christianity apart from the JWs also differ on these topics. This is true but a review of the JW theology compared to what is considered by everyone else is extremely different.

JWs believe that all of the self-called "Christian" people outside of JW theology are actually not Christians at all but are part of the great apostasy that is prophecized by Christ.

I posed this to one of my good JW friends. The JWs do not accept the doctrines of the early chuch fathers but they do accept that the fathers were able to identify which books were the inspired scriptures. How can they reconcile this? You see, you can label anyone with apostasy but how do you label the fathers with apostasy when they determined which books were actually inspired? This makes no sense. It's a big red flag. My JW friend agreed, it's a problem.

BX man, I love reading your posts.