I love Jesus but perhaps we should allow all religions a place to post.

Wow, good idea meddle. I'll definitely check into that!

dont leave out the canabals and the church of satan. we need a home too :wiggle:

Meddle wants a muslim forum for one reason....

To rage muslims.

I'd be interested in one also.

what about the Buddhists? The Taoists? The Hindus? Do the Mormons and the Jehovah's get subforums in the christian forum? If the muslims get a forum, will there be sub forums for sunnis and shi'ites?

huh huh, he said shiite, huh huh.

huh huh, I'm not a "he" dumb ass.

huh huh, I'm not a "he" dumb ass.

Prove it! there's no girls on the Intarweb!

Granbd WIzard Hornsby has realised that he should tone it down with the racism. With that Grand WiZ Hornsby (GWH for short) will start talking in 3rd person and come witha a more subversive brand of racism. America is the best. Our rolling hills and majestic mountains will crush the enemy. Eat those turbine heads up with their sheer force and power. We have no tolerance for people who go against the will of our people. They will pay.

ha

:beerchug:

you do realize the religion is Islam not Muslim...right?

i thought christians werent supposed to judge, doesnt that mean you can judge someone for believing in Islam? and why is Islam a "false religion" what makes christianity more true, or un-false?

as Christians we are called to be confrontational, although you won't hear that from many of the wimpy pulpits of 2006...we are called to confront error.Bullshit.

Believe it or not Mark, I've been to church on a few occasions and I have Christian friends. They'd recommend you for a straight jacket so fast your head would spin.

this statement really bothers me, to be honest

the statement "I love Jesus", in itself, means nothing....Jehovah's Witness' say that, Roman Catholics say that, even some Muslims might say that! but they are not in Christ (or in the Kingdom)....to them, Christ is not THE way, THE truth, and THE life....but rather one of a smogasbord of religious ideas

so then your follow-on statement makes me cringe, because tolerance for false religion in the mind of a professing Christian is deadly stuff....your "faith" is likely the same whimsical, speculative faith of SO MANY in 2006 (i.e. it likely is not genuine, saving faith....but only God knows what's in your heart)

That was posted by a mod who edited my original post attacking Jesus. Trust me, I think jesus was a handjob giving jew. I also dislike the whore that shit that little fucker out of her diseased vagina.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000080CJ.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/images/churchsigns/spiritual_fruit.jpg

and how come when I google "fuck jesus" I get the official website of pat robertson?

:nopity:So it's a pity that I have normal Christian friends?

My guess it they aren't real ChristiansMy guess is that you're not. You may think that you are, but you're not.

I'd recommend YOU for the mental wardWell you know me, acting crazy and babbling about religion all the time... :bigthumb:

so exactly WHY are you in this sub-forum if you don't care?To taunt the freak show exhibit in the cage... why else?

why don't you get off your ass and get your car done??Why don't you get a wife, a kid, and a real job and then we'll talk.

P.S. You're going to burn in the lake of fire. :)

thanks Jim, have a nice day :)

how's the kid? any more planned?Just fine, thanks. God told me to wait four years in between so I wouldn't have to spring for two kids in college at the same time. Smart guy. :)

God told me to wait four years in between so I wouldn't have to spring for two kids in college at the same time. Smart guy. :)

Didn't realize Bill was handing out family advice these days.

Didn't realize Bill was handing out family advice these days.Actually, it was a friend of my parents (who was also my Algebra III-IV teacher) who I first heard that from. Both of his daughters went to Pacific Lutheran University, and that wasn't cheap even 20 years ago.

Oddly enough, the older daughter went to work for Bill in the late 80s and now has 3 houses and untold millions. The younger daughter is now a farm wife in eastern Washington raising babies.

Also oddly enough, they don't discuss their religion. Wonderful people. :D

Also oddly enough, they don't discuss their religion. Wonderful people. :D

What a novel concept.

and then death arrives....perhaps they reconsider at that pointThat they should have been pushy assholes about their religion and prostituted it in order to gain attention for themselves? I doubt it.

Maybe you'll finally regret that when the final curtain falls... or whatever melodramatic shit you typically end one of your posts with when you've run out of pathetic arguments... :bigthumb:

a novel concept for atheists

How babout for illiterate bible pounding morons like yourself? Agnostic is the key word you keep tripping over. You must listento your scripture through books on tape, because you sure as fuck can't read.


and then death arrives....perhaps they reconsider at that point

Tell you waht Mark, when I die, if I'm sentenced to eternal damnation...I owe you a buck.

practical atheists then
Agnostic

happy?

Happier than you apparently


the bottom line is, God can't do what He said He did!!!

God didn't say anything. Man did and claimed it as the Word of God. You have to accept upon faith that they are God's words.


6 day creation is impossible for God! so is flooding the earth! :rolleyes:

I never limited God's powers. You keep trying to put words in my mouth that weren't ever there. I clearly explained what I thought God's roll in all of this was. You just can't seem to read, or your feeble little mind can't comprehend any viewpoint that isn't already printed in your precious book.

I know what you said, concerning God's role

Then why do you insist on misquoting me?

however, you have not articulated exactly why you believe the Bible is false, other than the supernatural acts are incredible and hard to believe....we talking about GOD here!

Because it's a book written by men, long after it's telling, that's been continuously mistranslated and manipulated throughout history to control people. That's why.

I don't see any evidence of talking burning bushes, seas parting, dead rising, water turning to wine, etc. in my daily existence, so why would I use the bible as though it were a code of law? It is what it is, a collection of parables for moral structure and virtue.


and why can't God use Spirit filled men to communicate His Word? what's He supposed to do, get on a loudspeaker every year and give a message?
Sure why not? God's all powerful after all.

I don't trust "spirit filled men" as they all have agendas, and I am sure that my well being is not at the top of any of their lists.

I don't need a book, a congregation, or structured religion to have a relationship with God.

science is flawed. the hardcore-scientifically-minded only believe that which they know. This is hypocrisy. CLEARLY, because the one thing science proves over and over again is that man does NOT know everything they need to / can know. Which is pretty fucking hilarious if you ask me.

science is flawed. the hardcore-scientifically-minded only believe that which they know. This is hypocrisy. CLEARLY, because the one thing science proves over and over again is that man does NOT know everything they need to / can know. Which is pretty fucking hilarious if you ask me.

^That's how you know I'm not GWH. The point of science is just that. To find out.To try to know. To learn, and never stop learning. Science cannot be flawed because it always critics itself. Science does not claim to have all the answers, religion does.


Man did and claimed it as the Word of God. You have to accept upon faith that they are God's words.
The Flaw.

^That's how you know I'm not GWH. The point of science is just that. To find out.To try to know. To learn, and never stop learning. Science cannot be flawed because it always critics itself. Science does not claim to have all the answers, religion does.



The Flaw.


I'm beyond the SCIENCE vs RELIGION argument. This aint CNN... its a really FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED basis for any sort of coherent argument, no wonder all this typing is going on and not one of you asses are getting anywhere, arguing semantics for a fundamentally flawed argument.

MY POINT IS: all these hard-core science humping clowns are so ANTI-FAITH, with the "SHOW ME PROOF" bullshit. you assholes have no idea that if it WERENT FOR FAITH, there would be NO SCIENTIFIC PERSUIT GOING ON .. EVER. Fucking idiots, realise FAITH IS THE SEED OF SCIENCE. If you didnt believe something unproven (like people who believe in GOD, etc), then you would not try to prove it. We all suffer the same condition. Well not really suffer, but you know. It takes a very special brand of ignorance to completely miss obvious points like this, and continue to argue incohesive ideologies. I find that with popular issues like this, people get signed up for viewpoints that only closely match what they believe. not exactly and they rush ahead and get into detailed arguments, without actually revising the basis of what their even arguing. Thats still really fucking hilarious, of you ask me.

no one mentioned "the scientific method"

whats fundamentally flawed is the RELIGION vs FAITH argument.

My problem with your interpretation of the "scientific method" is that it relies heavily on readily available human senses. Thats a crippling limitation. Before radiometers, people would have called you a nutjob for saying that there is "radiation" beyond that which we can see and feel. And you would have felt like an ass, and people would have said you were gullable and a moron, while everyone is getting fried by gamma rays from gardening with uranium.

Religion, not in its true definition, but in its popular interpretation (masses of people acting in unison) is easily explained by science, if you ask me. Simple psychology.

People are sheep eh? Hmmmm... do you drink Coke? Watch TV? Check out movies? Go on internet message boards? Eat at KFC? Pizza Hut Maybe? Work a 9-5? Buy a house? Yeah I guess you could call people sheep. We all do "sheep like" things, its one of the exploits of human psychology that little to no one is immune to. .. and that marketing firms have extensively researched. Whats your vice?

okay. philosophical and theological error could be anything. Should we be in Iraq? Further, what is God's word?

the problem arises when one claims that the material world, what can be perceived via the human senses and practice of science, is ALL there is....that thinking is flawed

Who does that. That would just be silly.
Anyone who beleived that is either misinformed or behind the times.


Stanford School of Medicine
Presents
His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama

http://med.stanford.edu/events/dalailama/video.html

The conference was moderated by Dr. William Mobley , Cahill Professor in the School of Medicine and Director of the Neuroscience Institute at Stanford. He assembled a distinguished group of scientists and Buddhist scholars to join him in this dialogue. They included:

Dr. Carl Bielefeldt , Professor of Religious Studies, Stanford University
Dr. Paul Ekman , Professor of Psychology, Department of Psychiatry, University of California , San Francisco
Dr. Howard Fields , Professor of Neurology, Physiology, and Psychiatry and Director, Wheeler Center for the Neurobiology of Addiction, University of California, San Francisco
Philippe Goldin, Postdoctoral Scholar, Department of Psychology, Stanford University
Dr. Janet Gyatso , Hershey Professor of Buddhist Studies, Harvard Divinity School
Dr. Anne C. Klein , Professor of Religious Studies, Rice University
Dr. Brian Knutson , Assistant Professor of Psychology, Stanford University
Dr. Helen Mayberg, Professor of Psychiatry and Neurology, Emory University
Dr. William Newsome , Professor of Neurobiology, Stanford University
Dr. Mathieu Ricard, Buddhist scholar and monk, French translator for His Holiness
Dr. David Spiegel , The Jack, Lulu and Sam Willson Professor in Medicine, Stanford University
Ven. Karma Lekshe Tsomo , Assistant Professor of Theology and Religious Studies, University of San Diego
Dr. Alan Wallace , Founder & President, Santa Barbara Institute for Consciousness Studies

Brian Wandell , Isaac and Madeline Stein Family Professor of Psychology, Stanford University

Remove religion and science can work with spirituality.
Everyone wins.

people are sheep....common Biblical analogy....they go with the herd, and the herd is easily deceived and led off a cliffWhy do you think a congregation is sometimes called a flock, and a Pastor called a shepherd?

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
he leadeth me beside the still waters.

He maketh me chew my cud in contentment...

Sounds awfully sheepy to me, and you're just as sheepy as the next guy, Mark, if not more so. If you think what you do is even remotely based on independent thought, considering for a moment how tied you are to ICR.org and other Christian web sites. The umbilical is almost tangible. I've never once seen you able to fight your own fight without quoting from the Bible or a web site to support your position. Stand on your own two feet for a change, little man.

If anything is fundamentally dependent on blind acceptance (i.e. sheep-like behavior) organized religion is. Questioning is baaaaaaad. Baaaaaaad.

yep, I am a sheep

but God is my Shepherd

yours is your own lustsYou'd better cast off those ceramic coated turbos and that bike then before they taint thee, because your lusts look an awful lot like mine.

yep, I am a sheep

but God is my Shepherd

yours is your own lusts

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/Owned2/american-pie.jpg

By Jimlab no less.

the FD and the bike are not my idols, just toysOh, well that makes all the difference. Your toys are toys and my toys are idols. Got it.

basis for this assertion?

What translation do you use? There are at least 7 major english translations that I know of, and not all say the same thing. How many contextual errors are in that book that you want to follow word for word? How many liberites have been taken? How many are purposeful/intentional?

What language was your translation converted from? Probably Greek or Hebrew, and not the Aramaic commonly spoken at the time of Christ. I'm going to trust the Word of God that no one bothered to write down at the time? Everyone's played the game where you start with a sentence at one end of a crowd and have them whisper it from person to person. It doesn't even resemble the inital sentence by the end. So I'm supposed to trust that some untold number of years later when pen meets papyrus that they got it eactly right? And that then in the 1600s the translators got it exactly right?

Lastly, how many books are there in your Bibile? The various denominations can't even agree on what should be include and what excluded.

That's my basis for my assertion. Now I'm sure you'll link me to a bunch of horsehit Christian sites to refute each problem item by item, but it's not that easy. If you want to believe that you're reading the literal Word of God by all means feel free. Just don't piss on my feet and tell me it's raining, which is exactly what you do when you tell me that life on Earth is only 6000 years old.

actually there is plenty of evidence that God's Word has been extremely well preserved
http://www.discover.com/issues/jun-05/departments/reviews

I thought we'd already firmly established my opinion on your "sources". You think that link is going to convince me I'm wrong?

you don't need a structured religion or a congregation, agreed, but you cannot worship God based on your own feelings/imaginations/doctrines

Watch me. Just because you say I can't doesn't make it so. You're so close minded it's embarassing.

you're right, that's not my place to discern that, that's your issueWell, you seemed to be doing a good job of it up until now... what changed?

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/pre-reformation.html:repost:

I'm trying to be a little more careful about how I say things :)Why start now? Over 4 years, you've pretty much alienated everyone but the people who haven't met you yet, and all they have to do is read one of these threads...

My advice? Find a new forum, get yourself a new alias having nothing to do with motorcycles or your car (you don't idolize, huh?) and keep your fucking trap shut.

most precise...the true Word of God is within their reach.
Meaning that it's not perfect, and that the book you're blindly following is close but not quite there.

See, you can't have it both ways. You can't tell me 6 days means 6 days in one breath and then tell me that it's an imperfect translation that gets close enough in another.

You can't tell me 6 days means 6 days in one breath and then tell me that it's an imperfect translation that gets close enough in another.Personally, I don't think he remembers what he posts from one thread to the next. He spews whatever comes into his head, and since he is the Mayor of Hypocrisytown, he gets a few things wrong. :)

good ol JimYou said you don't like being hated. There's your solution.

what? be a Jim Labreck ass kisser like half the little kids on these forums? :roll:Have you forgotten that you were a Jim LaBreck ass kisser at one time yourself?

the six day creation has been studied to death (and reiterated in Exodus 20 btw, just to be sure you understood...plus the phrase "evening and morning" is repeated in Genesis six times no less),

Wow, it was repeated. it must be really important.

The guy in Times Square trying to sell me a Rolex kept telling me "it's real" too. It must be true if he bothered to repeat it.


of course all this "millions of years" nonsense is 20th century fiction, under the guise of "science"....millions of years of death and decay could not have occurred before Adam because God declared everything "good"

Sure, science fiction. Whatever you say Mark. We're just back where we started. You can ignore all the scientific evidence you want, do all the handwaving you want, it won't make you anymore right.

Ask yourself why fundalmentalists are the only ones concerned with making life 6000 years old? It's not like Chrisitanity is somehow invalidated just because Genesis is allegorical rather than literal.

I honestly don't understand the hangup. I can only assume that as a lot you all were deprived of oxygen for extended periods of time during development, suffered head trauma, or you all suffer from Tourettes andjust like the shock value associated with suggesting something as ludicrous as a 6000 year old human species.

Personally, I don't think he remembers what he posts from one thread to the next. He spews whatever comes into his head, and since he is the Mayor of Hypocrisytown, he gets a few things wrong. :)

Mayor would imply an elected position Jim. No way Mark's constraining himself to a democracy. More like Caeser of the Hypocrisian Empire. :)

and the "proof" you offer is............

radioisotope dating? we've been there

yeah, and you choose to bury your head in the sand despite the fact that it's observable, measureable, and repeatable


light from distant stars? highly complex subject no one has the answer to, and may not ever, until God reveals it

Yup, Stars that are thousands of light years away don't really point to God unfurling the heavens after finishing the Earth.


because "millions of years" is a direct attack on God's Word....MANY people become confused and leave the faith over this issue because, if you can't take God at His Word in Genesis, where can you trust Him?

Genesis was written by humans, not by God. And it's damn close to the story in the Gilgamesh anyways, damn near a blatant ripoff.

Anyone that would leave the faith becaue the Earth wasn't created in the literal 6 days as described, or because the human species is older than the lineages chronicled in the Bible is delusional. The first humans couldn't read or write anyways, so who knows how long before family trees are actually chronicled?


answer: you can't

nor can you. The value is of the story as a whole, not the trivial details like how old something is, how long someone lived, etc. Those are obviously just best guess explanations using the information and technology avaialble at the time.




and why does God NEED millions of years? why? to appease evolutionists?

Who said there was any "need" in the 4.5 billion years the Earth has existed? The Earth itself is impressive enough. No one is going to build one faster, so why the need to call Guinness?

What it boils down to is faith. You have to have faith in your fellow man that "God's word" hasn't been tampered with, and that would be foolish since it's been tainted by human hands.

the six day creation has been studied to death (and reiterated in Exodus 20 btw, just to be sure you understood...plus the phrase "evening and morning" is repeated in Genesis six times no less), and there is no way you can read vast epochs of imaginary time into it...clearly Jesus did not believe that, because he referred to Adam (and so did the apostle Paul) as literal people who lived in the time before Abraham

of course all this "millions of years" nonsense is 20th century fiction, under the guise of "science"....millions of years of death and decay could not have occurred before Adam because God declared everything "good"

Oh yeah, we can discard all that physical proof based solely on the Bible.

:rolleyes:

people are sheep....common Biblical analogy....they go with the herd, and the herd is easily deceived and led off a cliff

And the herds that file into church every Sunday, just because that's what Mommy and Daddy did?

and includes several assumptions which cannot possibly be veriified....including a uniformitarian view of the earth's past, which rejects the BibleReword it and it's just as true, yet you claim your version is the correct one...

"and includes several assumptions which cannot posibly be verified... including a creationist view of the earth's past, which rejects evolution."

there are several creationist theories about this, and I'm sure you don't care to read any of themYou've got that right. We've had enough of your creationist theories, thanks.

btw, creationists do not reject evolution, we simply put the proper (scientific) limits on it: adaptation, speciation, genetic drift

anything other than that is not scienceRiiiight. Only creationists practice true science. Got it.

Because you should always be biased about your expected findings and work to fit them within a framework that precludes true scientific research.

Creationist researchers aren't out to find the truth. They're out to find the pieces of data that prove their viewpoint true. The fact that they discard or refute anything which calls it into doubt, or twist the interpretation to fit their model makes it even more of a farce.

I wish you could see yourself as we see you... the only thing you're missing is a jester's cap.

and includes several assumptions which cannot possibly be veriified....including a uniformitarian view of the earth's past, which rejects the Bible

It doesn't reject the bible. It rejects the accounts described in Genesis as absolute literal fact.

I'm not sure why you said that, but c is only constant in a vacuum...sudden inflation of the cosmos, as described in the Bible, may render it possible for light to reach our eyes through various phenomenon, there are several creationist theories about this, and I'm sure you don't care to read any of them

You're right, I don't care to read them if they are the same crap you keep throwing up. I'd be more than happy to read anything peer reviewed and refereed that you choose to put up. Of course, none of those will support your point, so I won't hold my breath waiting for them.

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/guidry/violence/lightspeed.html

To be precise, what we usually call the "speed of light" is really the speed of light in a vacuum (the absence of matter). In reality, the speed of light depends on the material that light moves through. Thus, for example, light moves slower in glass than in air, and in both cases the speed is less than in a vacuum. However, the density of matter between the stars is sufficiently low that the actual speed of light through most of interstellar space is essentially the speed it would have through a vacuum, so we don't make much error by ignoring the difference.

I'm sure you have some obscure passage in scripture, or another Aussie whackjob that you can link us to to refute it. :rolleyes:


counterpoint by Sarfati....this guy is a brilliant....plays chess blindfolded against 10 opponents and crushes them all

Great, so a savant with a degree in Chemistry is qualified to expound on gilgamesh. :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh

The Epic of Gilgamesh is from Babylonia, dating from long after the time that king Gilgamesh was supposed to have ruled. It was based on earlier Sumerian legends of Gilgamesh. The most complete version of the epic was preserved on eleven clay tablets in the collection of the 7th century BC Assyrian king Ashurbanipal. It is considered to be the oldest story ever told.



Just a question, but is anyone that you continue to link actually respected by their professional community?

http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/sarfati's_RE_reviewed_henke.htm

Like most young-Earth creationist books that I've read, Jonathan Sarfati's "Refuting Evolution" is full of elementary errors in astronomy, chemistry, geology and the nature of science. For example, when arguing for a "young" Universe, Sarfati (p. 113) claims that no stage 3 supernova remnants exist in our or neighboring galaxies. However, 166.2+2.5, 180.0-1.7, 189.1+3.0, 279.0+1.1, and 290.1-0.8 are just five undisputed examples of these "nonexistent" remnants. For more information on Sarfati's mistaken views of astronomy and cosmology, see Supernovae, Supernova Remnants, and Young-Earth Creationism FAQ by Dave Moore, which includes additional discussions on third-stage remnants and many supporting references.

Sarfati (p. 113) also claims that a "lack" of helium escape from the atmosphere supports its "youth." However, recent NASA images show helium and other gases being SWEPT from the Earth's atmosphere into deep space. One event occurred on September 24-25, 1998 after a solar coronal mass emission (see Solar Wind Blows Some of the Earth's Atmosphere into Space and Solar Wind Squeezes Some of the Earth's Atmosphere into Space). Also, see Young earth "Proof #14: Helium and the "Young" Earth by Dave Matson.

So, why don't creationists use heavier gases (e.g. argon) that won't readily escape into space when they try to date the Earth's atmosphere? Perhaps, it's because the atmospheric 40argon/36argon is consistent with an ancient Earth (Dalrymple, 1984, p. 83; Krauskopf and Bird, 1995, p. 576) and it cannot be distorted to support their interpretations of Genesis...


it's unknown how long it was before written language was developed after Creation....I suspect not long at all because I completely reject the evolutionary notions that early man was "dumb"....quite the contrary, many early civilizations were amazingly advanced, and there is abundant scientific evidence to support that assertion

You suspect but can't observe, measure, or support. :rolleyes:

No one is saying early man was dumb. The assertion is that communication such as language, reading and writing are not innate skills, and would have taken time to develop.


regardless, the key point is, can you take the Bible seriously, or not?

As an allegory, not as rote fact.


I believe God doesn't make mistakes, if He wanted to convey the notion of vast epochs, He could have done so....the stars are described many times in scripture as an uncountable number, long before science verified that truth

No one is claiming God made any mistakes (other than the platypus, have you seen that thing?) Man makes mistakes, and man is the one that committed the works of the bible to writing.


we disagree

Big surprise there. You disagree with everyone.


the universe is more than impressive, it's beyond human comprehension, and that's the key issue: there is no limits with God God's inifinitude is so far beyond tiny human brains, that words simply fail....when I look at a night sky full of stars I'm beyond humbled, the vastness is overpowering...and God is that unspeakably powerful, I wouldn't dare put any limits on the Creator

And I did?

written by spirit filled men, God breathed out the scriptures....they have stood the test of time, although no translation is perfect

You're a walking, talking contradiction then, since you're basing your beliefs off of an imperfect translation. You'd think that if it were so important God would see to it that it was translated correctly. :rolleyes:

can I get an amen in here? :)

I doubt it. Even your christian bretheren here seem to think you're a chode.

anything other than that is not science

Says the man who doesn't hold any scientific degrees and has what kind of formal scientific training? Oh yeah, a civil engineering degree.

Because you should always be biased about your expected findings and work to fit them within a framework that precludes true scientific research.

Creationist researchers aren't out to find the truth. They're out to find the pieces of data that prove their viewpoint true. The fact that they discard or refute anything which calls it into doubt, or twist the interpretation to fit their model makes it even more of a farce.

Gotta love those "Cafeteria Creationists". Pick and choose the data you like...leave the rest of it behind. :evillaugh


I wish you could see yourself as we see you... the only thing you're missing is a jester's cap.

Or an afro wig and a red rubber ball for a nose.

of course all this "millions of years" nonsense is 20th century fiction, under the guise of "science"....millions of years of death and decay could not have occurred before Adam because God declared everything "good"

what is "good"?
millions of years of death make sense though.
There cannot be life without death.

Do you also not beleive in dinosaurs or earthquakes?

Can you do whatever you want once oyu get to heaven?

no human being, no matter how brilliant, is infallible, of course....
except for those luminaries that transcribed the bible of course...oh, you and your little group that's interpretting everything correctly. :rolleyes:


I find your high brow cut and paste minutia "rebukes" of Sarfati's excellent work laughable,

Of course you do. You don't have any other recourse but to laugh. Dr Safarti, and Dr Snelling before him have laughable theories they can't support, make egregious errors in judgement and interpretation of data, and expound upon subjects that are so far removed from their area of training and expertise that it's laughable. So in essence I agree with you...they're not good for anything but a good chuckle.

At least you recognize that my cut and paste skills are up to snuff. :roll:


as if your "heroes" do not continually change their whimiscal little theories on even basic phenomenon in the universe,

My heros? I don't have any heros Mark...except you of course.

Real scientists alter and reshape their models as new data presents itself. It's healthy and necessary for science to progress. You never get it all right, and the answers only provoke new questions, which is why we continue to do experiments rather than simply trust what a multi-thousand year old document says.


such as Saturn's rings (now known to be shrinking at a much faster rate than previously postulated, yet another objection to "billions of years")

That's it, switch the subject. Maybe no one will notice the multitude of times you've been rebuked.


billlllllllllions and billllllllllllions of years.....Carl Sagan R.iI.P....you died a bitter old atheist who claimed "we live on a hum-drum planet in a hum-drum galaxy"

That's it, attack the old dead guy for his lack of belief.


but you were wrong!

Of course...you can't actually back that up. :rolleyes:

are you still here?
What? you think your bullshit links and scripture passages are going to chase me away?


we agree on nothing, so I see no point in any further dialogue


And yet you'll keep coming back...and back...and back...you can't help yourself. It's pathological.


have a nice life,

Thanks Mark. At least you left out the (short) part this time. :)


as I've said before, nothing you believe will ever be proven, all you have to look forward to is humiliation

If you say so.

Like I said, save me a seat for the hellfire. :evillaugh

rather, I would pray God would open your heart to hear the message

Save your breath. I've no interest in hearing your version of God's message.

correction, you have no interest in hearing God's version of His message,
No, I got it right the first time. I've no interest in hearing anything from you. I'll welcome God's message when he/she/it is willing to share.

and prefer to make up your own belief system, based on your own ideas


I suppose if living according to the standards that you and your merry bunch of bible quoting nimrods set, then that is very true.

not only do you have no interest in hearing anything from me (or anyone else), you have no interest in God's Word at all

That's right, I've no interest in hearing you proselytize. You clearly have trouble distinguishing reality from fantasyland, so you're hardly in a position to offer spiritual counsel.

ooooo, "nimrods"...something new and original :)

Don't like nimrods? I'm sorry, what endearing reference would you prefer for you and your delusional friends?

Can you do whatever you want once oyu get to heaven?

Hey crazy man, this was never addressed.

Hey crazy man, this was never addressed.

He probably just doesn't have a link he can copy/paste that addresses your question. :)

He probably just doesn't have a link he can copy/paste that addresses your question. :)He'll find one. He has a massive ever-expanding collection of favorite links that most of us would put in a folder named "Crazies". :bigthumb:

Thanks for not insulting our intelligence by denying it...

God's creation was without flaw, it was not marred by sin, disease, decay, and death before the curse

there cannot be life without death? in this age, perhaps, not in the ages to come....the angels have never experienced death, and never will....and I believe God's creative work is far from over

there is so much more than this little world, than this little 6,000 year period of testing....this is the boot camp of eternity for immortal souls, far too many people love this fleeting life and throw eternity away for the "pleasures of a season"....they are fools, separated from God...in fact all men are born fools, in that they do not know God, without whom there is no life

Psalm 103

For as the heavens are high above the earth,
So great is His mercy toward those who fear Him;
As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
As a father pities his children,
So the LORD pities those who fear Him.
For He knows our frame;
He remembers that we are dust.

As for man, his days are like grass;
As a flower of the field, so he flourishes.
For the wind passes over it, and it is gone,
And its place remembers it no more.
But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting
On those who fear Him,
And His righteousness to children’s children,
To such as keep His covenant,
And to those who remember His commandments to do them

amen!


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Sup1661/f6193b2a.jpg

John 17

My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.

http://http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Sup1661/869cfa42.jpg

John 17

My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.
http://http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Sup1661/869cfa42.jpg

John 17

My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.


http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2277/prayerassault4tv.gif

what is "good"?
millions of years of death make sense though.
There cannot be life without death.

Do you also not beleive in dinosaurs or earthquakes?

This thread is outta ur caliber.

I don't recall YZF not believing in dinos or earthquakes.

Do u?