so today my girlfriend tells me she is a month and a half pregnant, and shes about to get an appointment to get it aborted.......

wtf am i supposd to say or do?

Nothing. Be supportive.

The only thing you should say is, "I am here if you need me for anything."

:werd:

Because ultimately, it isn't your choice and obviously she's already made up her mind.

1st in with "piidb", you lose sntp.

well yea im glad shes not keeping it...still the worst part is she told me that theyll tell her the gender before they do the procedure. i doubt i could hold myself together when i hear that news damn

Your profile says you're 21. My wife got pregnant when I was 21. I was still in school and it beat my ass. I had to work two jobs (still working two jobs) and go to school part time. I had to live with her parents after I graduated for about a year so that I could save up to buy a house.

It was tough.

I really wish I had a chance to go to law school or at least better prepare myself for my curent responsibilities. -see my sig.

See this as a second chance. Go do what you have always wanted to do.
Now is your chance.

Yep only thing you can do is be there for her and let her know that whatever she decides to do you will be there.

my profile sais im 21 but were both 17 lol

Hmmm, for a second there I thought this was a BATMAN thread...

Sorry to hear about your turn of events, man. Just be strong and supportive for her, that's pretty much all you can do.

my profile sais im 21 but were both 17 lol

Why?

Get that bitch on the pill!

Because ultimately, it isn't your choice and obviously she's already made up her mind.

+1.. Its a hard truth, but when it comes to the final outcome you really dont have a say.. Just be there and support her with her decision. Sounds like it is going in your favor.

but were both 17 lol
fucking retard. Thats what the fuck condoms are for.

fucking retard. Thats what the fuck condoms are for.

+1

Get some responsibility. If you aren't ready for a kid then take measures to protect against having one.

If you ain't ready to have a kid don't fuck all the time. It's only a matter of time, seriously. IF I have hypothetically done the deed only twice, both times I would do with a condom and spermicide.

If you think a condom is taking the fun out of it all, stop buying Trojan ENZ, IMO they are too thick and I have a hard time climaxing, as in over 30 minutes of hardcore thrusting. I use Durex Extra Sensitive, they are thinner, much nicer. And if you don't want to use a condom at all get a spermicide. For Christ's sake, sex isn't science just use your brain before you use your head.

geezus khrist.

Kids having kids.

There needs to be a bill that stupilates that u must make x-amount of $$$$ to have kids.....

shes on the pill damn, so hows that my fault if the girl fucks up and forgets to take it? she saisshe never forgot but i dunno if i can believe it

shes on the pill damn, so hows that my fault if the girl fucks up and forgets to take it? she saisshe never forgot but i dunno if i can believe it
its your fault for relying on one single form of birth control dumbass. And it has happened that women have gotten pregnant on the pill without missing one before.

Who cares whos fault it is? Right now a life is at stake.

If either of you cannot take care the child,


Me and my wife will.

shes on the pill damn, so hows that my fault if the girl fucks up and forgets to take it? she saisshe never forgot but i dunno if i can believe it

Generally, when a chick goes off the pill her period starts up shortly thereafter.

I vote for a Ban

I vote for a Ban

The question is on the adoption of the resolution to ban nowboostinII; those in favor of the resolution say aye; those opposed say no.

The question is on the adoption of the resolution to ban nowboostinII; those in favor of the resolution say aye; those opposed say no.

aye

wow, never thought id get banned here before the seven club lol

aye

Your profile says you're 21. My wife got pregnant when I was 21. I was still in school and it beat my ass. I had to work two jobs (still working two jobs) and go to school part time. I had to live with her parents after I graduated for about a year so that I could save up to buy a house.

It was tough.

I really wish I had a chance to go to law school or at least better prepare myself for my curent responsibilities. -see my sig.

See this as a second chance. Go do what you have always wanted to do.
Now is your chance.

You know I was reading your post and was ready for the “it was all worth it I wouldn’t trade my daughter for anything”. But NO we get KILL the baby.


WTF are you talking about. You are one selfish bastard. Why don't you go tell your daughter that? Nobody told you to take your dick out of your pants. You made a baby now you have to take care of it boo fucking hoo.

shes on the pill damn, so hows that my fault if the girl fucks up and forgets to take it? she saisshe never forgot but i dunno if i can believe it


So basically what you are saying is I got some girl pregnant and now I don't want to play house anymore and we are just going to KILL the baby. Because that is what it is, it's killing a baby because you don't feel like taking responsibility for your actions. It might hinder any whim you might have.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/amishboy/IMG_0106.jpg

wow.

#1: I vote no.

Seriously. Grow up here people.


2: yeah, umm, be supportive, just because it's your kid doesn't mean it's your choice, and if you're glad she's getting rid of it anyways then take it as the second chance at life that it is.

AND WEAR A CONDOM NEXT TIME jeezus.

When I was with my ex I took no chances.. condom, the pill AND spermicide... and boy am I glad, because if I ended up having a kid with her, wow, that would have sucked. (and still would probably!)

at the very least, pay for the abortion/baby killing.

at the very least, pay for the abortion/baby killing.


Yeah


PUNK

So basically what you are saying is I got some girl pregnant and now I don't want to play house anymore and we are just going to KILL the baby. Because that is what it is, it's killing a baby because you don't feel like taking responsibility for your actions. It might hinder any whim you might have.

He almost makes his GF sound really nonchalant about the whole thing. Kinda unnerving.

This thread is worthless without pics.
http://www.truthnet.org/abortion/Partial-Birth_Abortion1.jpg

He almost makes his GF sound really nonchalant about the whole thing. Kinda unnerving.


Yeah and it's not just this everything is always somebody else's fault. Nobody is held accountable for anything.


Everyone wants to fix the symptom not the problem. Which in this case means KILLING the baby. Instead of not having sex unless you are prepared to have a baby.

Yeah and everything is always somebody else's fault. Nobody is held accountable for anything.


Everyone wants to fix the symptom not the problem. Which in this case means KILLING the baby.

I don't want to knock up my GF, so I don't do the dastardly deed. It's a pretty easy concept. It only takes one time, ya know.

so today my girlfriend tells me she is a month and a half pregnant, and shes about to get an appointment to get it aborted.......

wtf am i supposd to say or do?

too young or too immature. Its all over. Relationship failed. With the current one, walk her to the clinic. Do not pursue any further with her.

In the meantime, only fuck someone you would marry. Like someone with brains and cute. big boobs help. Anyway, communicate with said person how you love her very much. ALSO tell her your ideas on how to raise kids, how you would like to start a family and still have great sex before marriage. This done in parellel with the courting!

More over, mention how you envision a grand family of wealth and how you might think it would take to get there. If only you have help from a beautiful partner like the one you love, of course. That way, if she ever said she was pregnant, she would tell you something different.

I don't want to knock up my GF, so I don't do the dastardly deed. It's a pretty easy concept. It only takes one time, ya know.


I'm glad to hear that, you're making the right choice.

Yeah and I'm not saying it's easy. Everyone wants to "grow up" and get to that next big thing. But you can't skip things or get ahead of yourself.

But when you do mess up you have to do the right thing. Which probably in this case would be to carry the baby to term and let someone adopt it.

I'm glad to hear that, you're making the right choice.

Yeah and I'm not saying it's easy. Everyone wants to "grow up" and get to that next big thing. But you can't skip things or get ahead of yourself.

But when you do mess up you have to do the right thing. Which probably in this case would be to carry the baby to term and let someone adopt it.

When she's 18, we'll entertain the thought of getting buck-wild more often, because then adoption (and not getting arrested) comes into play. If I was with a girl who got pregnant and kept it, I'd still be that baby's father. I wouldn't marry her because of duty, I'd just be there for our baby, no matter how hard it is for me. I'll be honorable the best way I know how.

Are the lessons in morality really necessary here? In the end, the choice is hers, since she'd be the one forced to carry it, not the anti-baby-killing fanatics who would never even have to fathom being scared out of their wits all while being a hormonal and physical mess carrying a child that they weren't prepared for in the first place. Like others have said, support her. Use a condom. If she can't remember the pill, get her on the patch or depo. The end

Are the lessons in morality really necessary here? In the end, the choice is hers, since she'd be the one forced to carry it, not the anti-baby-killing fanatics who would never even have to fathom being scared out of their wits all while being a hormonal and physical mess carrying a child that they weren't prepared for in the first place. Like others have said, support her. Use a condom. If she can't remember the pill, get her on the patch or depo. The end


Well the choice may be hers now but hopefully some day that will change. Everyone has the choice not to have sex. That is the only choice you should have.

Are the lessons in morality really necessary here? In the end, the choice is hers, since she'd be the one forced to carry it, not the anti-baby-killing fanatics who would never even have to fathom being scared out of their wits all while being a hormonal and physical mess carrying a child that they weren't prepared for in the first place. Like others have said, support her. Use a condom. If she can't remember the pill, get her on the patch or depo. The end
Go ahead, justify the killing.












if that helps you get through the day.

save your self the $300 and kick her downa flight of steps.

save your self the $300 and kick her downa flight of steps.

Just point up in the air and say Oh look at that bird then punch her right in the stomache. Money saved and she will see that you really are there to help her in any way she needs.:bigthumb:

Just point up in the air and say Oh look at that bird then punch her right in the stomache. Money saved and she will see that you really are there to help her in any way she needs.:bigthumb:

yea but that doesnt bruise her face.......:owned: :bowdown: :boobies:

yea but that doesnt bruise her face.......:owned: :bowdown: :boobies:

Yeah the cops really like it when they have evidence of abuse. Better yet hit her in the stomache with a bag of oranges.. If the cops get called say it was some mexican on the side of the road trying to sell you oranges and when you turned him down he hit her with the oranges.:bigthumb:

i've been waiting for a chance to use this pic.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/kirinpoopy/abortiowned.jpg

so today my girlfriend tells me she is a month and a half pregnant, and shes about to get an appointment to get it aborted.......

wtf am i supposd to say or do?
you should call your local hospital now and see if they have a penis exchange program for guys like you who can't handle owning one.

:dumbass smiley face emoticon thingy

Go ahead, justify the killing.












if that helps you get through the day.

Scientific:

-3 days after conception: The zygote now consists of 16 cells and is called a 16 cell morula (a.k.a. pre-embryo). It has normally reached the junction of the fallopian tube and the uterus.

-5 days or so after conception: A cavity appears in the center of the morula. The grouping of cells are now called a blastocyst. It has an inner group of cells which will become the fetus and later the newborn; it has an outer shell of cells which will "become the membranes that nourish and protect the inner group of cells." 3 It has traveled down the fallopian tubes and has started to attach itself to the endometrium, the inside wall of the uterus (a.k.a. womb). The cells in the inside of the blastocyst, called the embryoblast, start forming the embryo. The outer cells, called the trophoblast, start to form the placenta. It continues to be referred to as a pre-embryo.

See? This is why I fully support the morning-after pill. Sperm and egg together aren't SHIT.

-9 or 10 days after conception: The blastocyst has fully attached itself to endometrium. Primitive placental blood circulation has begun. This blastocyst has become one of the lucky ones. Most never make it this far in the process.

-12 days or so after conception: The blastocyst has started to produce hormones which can be detected in the woman's urine. This is is the event that all (or almost) all pro-choice groups and almost all physicians (who are not conservative Christians) define to be the start of pregnancy. If instructions are followed exactly, a home-pregnancy test may reliably detect pregnancy at this point, or shortly thereafter.

-13 or 14 days after conception: A "primitive streak" appears. It will later develop into the fetus' central nervous system. This is the point at which spontaneous division of the blastocyst -- an event that sometimes generates identical twins -- is not longer possible. The pre-embryo is now referred to as an embryo. It is a very small blob of undifferentiated tissue at this stage of development.

-3 weeks: The embryo is now about 1/12" long, the size of a pencil point. It most closely resembles a worm - long and thin and with a segmented end. Its heart begins to beat about 18 to 21 days after conception. Before this time, the woman might have noticed that her menstrual period is late; she might suspect that she is pregnant and conduct a pregnancy test. If it is an unwanted pregnancy, she might have already arranged and carried through with an abortion.

-4 weeks: The embryo is now about 1/5" long. It looks something like a tadpole. The structure that will develop into a head is visible, as is a noticeable tail. The embryo has structures like the gills of a fish in the area that will later develop into a throat.

-5 weeks: Tiny arm and leg buds have formed. Hands with webs between the fingers have formed at the end of the arm buds. Fingerprints are detectable. The face "has a distinctly reptilian aspect." 1 "...the embryo still has a tail and cannot be distinguished from pig, rabbit, elephant, or chick embryo."

-6 weeks: The embryo is about 1/2" long. The face has two eyes on each side of its head; the front of the face has "connected slits where the mouth and nose eventually will be."

-7 weeks: The embryo has almost lost its tail. "The face is mammalian but somewhat pig-like." Pain sensors appear. Many conservative Christians believe that the embryo can feel pain. However, the higher functions of the brain have yet to develop, and the pathways to transfer pain signals from the pain sensors to the brain have not developed at this time.

-2 months: The embryo's face resembles that of a primate but is not fully human in appearance. Some of the brain begins to form; this is the primitive "reptilian brain" that will function throughout life. The embryo will respond to prodding, although it has no consciousness at this stage of development. The brain's higher functions do not develop until much later in pregnancy.

-10 weeks: The embryo is now called a fetus. Its face looks human; its gender may be detectable via ultrasound.

-13 weeks or 3 months: The fetus is about 3 inches long and weighs about an ounce. Fingernails and bones can be seen. Over 90% of all abortions are performed before this stage. 9


So up until about 10 weeks... an embryo isn't shit. Life doesn't begin at the time of conception, that's completely ridiculous. A heart beat doesn't define life either. You can't function without your heart... but you can't function without a brain, lungs, or any other vital organ. The reason the pulse is checked for on humans, is because it's noticeable. You can't tell if a persons brain is working if they're unconcious. Detection of slight breathing patterns can be extremely hard to detect, but to find the heartbeat is easy... which is why we do it. If humans were born with a big red light in our foreheads that blinked when our brain was functional, that would be how we'd determine if one was "alive" or not, and the heartbeat would never be checked. Why? It'd be the easiest method. The heart doesn't define life at all, it's equally as important as any other vital organ so please don't go that route, it's simply stupid.

you should call your local hospital now and see if they have a penis exchange program for guys like you who can't handle owning one.

:dumbass smiley face emoticon thingy

Perfect for my ethical speech. :bigthumb:


Now, the arguments for:

"don't have sex."
"keep it, it's your responsibility."
"keep it, just put it up for adoption."

is nothing but simple-minded stupidity at it's finest. People are going to have sex regardless. It's our animalistic nature to reproduce and keep our species alive. However, we also find great pleasure in it. Teenagers in their developmental rebellion stage also find things that they aren't supposed to do, attractive. Sex doesn't "sell" for no reason. All humans want it, and all humans are going to do it. Instead of spending time pissing in the wind by telling your children to not have sex, how about talking to them about it, and taking measures with them to have safer sex.

Ah, "keep it, it's your responsiblity." Obviously if an abortion is considered, then the parents didn't want the to-be child... aka they aren't responsible enough for a child. By letting a little clot of cells grow to a tadpole, then eventually a human infant over 9 months you're not doing the to-be child or the world a favor. That in itself, is irresponsible.

The whole adoption speech. Funny, while it's cute to imagine that foster homes or adoptions go smoothly, realistically a gamble is being taken with a "life." Who knows what type of home or shit they'll go through in a foster home, or an adopted family? Sexual abuse, mental abuse, physical abuse. "You" tell people that it isn't their right to abort an embryo before it becomes a human, but it's your right to force someone to allow a collection of meaningless cells to potentially grow in a human, and then "you" gamble with their life? I don't think so assholes.

Heart cells will beat on their own, if you connect two heart cells, they will beat in sync. Life begins when the baby can live on its own.

See my "scientific" post on the bottom of the last page =]

See my "scientific" post on the bottom of the last page =]

I read the whole thing, some parts twice.

I was just saying the thing about the heart cells because it's what they do. Heart cells beat before there is even blood.

I read the whole thing, some parts twice.

I was just saying the thing about the heart cells because it's what they do. Heart cells beat before there is even blood.

I didn't know that... that'll be more ammo for my arsenal in the future.

I didn't know that... that'll be more ammo for my arsenal in the future.

I learned about it in like 5th grade. There was a video of two heart cells in a petri dish, each one was doing its own little twitchy thing, then they touch the two together, they link up and start beating together. It was pretty cool.

wonder if it will be 1st abortion for the chick.

I think, probably not..

Life begins when the baby can live on its own.

I agree.

I never claimed to think it was 100% okay to have an abortion, but do I think a woman should be legally forced to carry a child? Of course not.. and I know quite a few pro-lifers who wouldn't think twice about shooting a deer between the eyes or kicking their dogs across the yard, but all of a sudden when it becomes human, it's some Godly creature. Don't act like every female who gets an abortion takes it as lightly as popping a birth control pill, either. I personally can't imagine what they'd have to go through mentally in order to come to that decision

Life begins when the baby can live on its own.



HMM

Well how old are you Queen? Can you live on your own yet or does mommy and daddy still pay the bills.

Hey maybe your parents should be allowed to have an abortion on you. That is if you can't live on your own.

HMM

Well how old are you Queen? Can you live on your own yet or does mommy and daddy still pay the bills.

21, and yep, luckily I have the kind of parents who understand the importance of education

Hey maybe your parents should be allowed to have an abortion.

Uh, they are? But I'll be sure to remind them once you're capable of processing a thought beyond "what beer should I have tonight?"

If you're man enough to have sex, you're man enough to deal with the consequences.

Oh and trojan Enz totally suck. Too bad I still have a fucking shit load of them left

If you're man enough to have sex, you're man enough to deal with the consequences.

Yes but women should deal with it too. Not just have an abortion.

Yes but women should deal with it too. Not just have an abortion.

Thanks for the latest installment of over-simplification; rest assured that it'll be considered.

Do you have any scientific evidence or logical reasoning whatsoever on this matter besides "ITS A BABY UPON CONCEPTION" (which was proven WRONG on the last page) ?

Thanks for the latest installment of over-simplification; rest assured that it'll be considered.

Well some things are simple.





Do you have any scientific evidence or logical reasoning whatsoever on this matter besides "ITS A BABY UPON CONCEPTION" (which was proven WRONG on the last page) ?

No.... but you don't either. You can quote scientists or anyone you want but when a cell starts replicating I would say that constitutes life.

Science has always been proven to be a work in progress, not fact.

Well some things are simple.







No.... but you don't either. You can quote scientists or anyone you want but when a cell starts replicating I would say that constitutes life.

Science has always been proven to be a work in progress, not fact.

This is a scientific matter, and nothing else. I sure do have proof; no human is alive without the vital organs operational.... MUCH LESS NOT EVEN DEVELOPED, "YET."

So, the replication of cells constitutes life? Plants are considered to be living, for that very reason, correct? Do you have a problem killing plants? No, you wouldn't compare the life of simple replicating cells with that of a developed human would you? It's okay to kill a plant (replicating cells), but not okay to freely murder fully developed humans because we're much more complex, correct?

Well, I know a women who would gladly carry the baby for her (surrogate motherhood).

And my wife and I would gladly raise the child.

So why abort it?

Well, I know a women who would gladly carry the baby for her (surrogate motherhood).

And my wife and I would gladly raise the child.

So why abort it?

It's her body, not yours, not your wifes, not your surrogate mother-wanna-be's. She has a wad of cells growing her body that could potentially be a human, by no ethics, morals, or laws with any sense require her to have any procedures to:

A) Have it aborted.
B) See what it grows to be and give birth if it happens to become a human.
C) Have a procedure to remove it from her body and placed in another.

Basically... IT'S HER DECISION.

What if it turned out to be a dog?

You know I was reading your post and was ready for the “it was all worth it I wouldn’t trade my daughter for anything”. But NO we get KILL the baby.

Where did I say to kill the baby?

WTF are you talking about. You are one selfish bastard. Why don't you go tell your daughter that? Nobody told you to take your dick out of your pants. You made a baby now you have to take care of it boo fucking hoo.

Look Amish, I f*cked up big time. She got pregnant and I had to hurry my plans to finish school, work my ass off, get married and buy a house.
It was/is a very hard experience. I wanted to have eveything ready if and when I had a kid, but I didn't and it sucked balls.

Do not call me selfish. My family comes first. I have worked my ass off for them and I will continue to do so. Do you know how many times I skipped lunch to save money while I was making $11.00 an hour? Do you know how many sleepless nights I had to endure? Do you know how many 24 hour shifts I had to work? I can continue, but I want to keep this as brief as possible.

I could have said, fuck it. I could have told her "No bitch, you're getting an abortion or I'm gone and you're going to rely on child support from now on, bye!" Guess what? I didn't. I stuck in there and have continuosly strived to make things better for both my wife and daughter with my sacrifice.

A lot of things can go wrong when we have kids that are not planned. Forgive me for not being against abortion. It's a choice we and other people should have.

Do not call me selfish.
A selfless act kind of loses something when you bitch about having had to do it.

Well I can't believe that you won't say, given the chance to do over you would have the baby.
It's one thing to abort a baby but it's another to think that way after having it call you daddy. Can you honestly say that your best memories and times in life haven’t come from your girl?


This is a scientific matter, and nothing else. I sure do have proof; no human is alive without the vital organs operational.... MUCH LESS NOT EVEN DEVELOPED, "YET."

So, the replication of cells constitutes life? Plants are considered to be living, for that very reason, correct? Do you have a problem killing plants? No, you wouldn't compare the life of simple replicating cells with that of a developed human would you? It's okay to kill a plant (replicating cells), but not okay to freely murder fully developed humans because we're much more complex, correct?

But come on now you are claiming to prove something that can't be proven. It's like trying to prove global warming or something. Plus you are just regurgitating things off the Internet. At least I admit that I can't prove anything and that everything I say is my opinion. I would say that a complex organism at any stage is still a complex organism.

we do need stem cells

But come on now you are claiming to prove something that can't be proven. It's like trying to prove global warming or something. Plus you are just regurgitating things off the Internet. At least I admit that I can't prove anything and that everything I say is my opinion. I would say that a complex organism at any stage is still a complex organism.

Let's not play dodgeball... like I said, why is it okay to kill plants, or other animals, and not humans? I'm sure you eat plants, animals, or both. Why is it not okay to kill "complex organisms" of 16 cells? Why is not okay to kill "complex organisms" the size of a pencil tip? Why is it not okay to kill "complex organisms" that resemble tadpoles with a monkey or pig face? I'm sure you wouldn't be pleased if PETA told you that you could no longer eat animals, simply because "complex organisms are complex organisms."

I'm not "trying" to prove anything. I'm giving you the FACTUAL scientific side of the issue at hand that you've obviously never considered before. Open your mind before you open your mouth.

A selfless act kind of loses something when you bitch about having had to do it.

You're right.

[QUOTE=Zero]Let's not play dodgeball... like I said, why is it okay to kill plants, or other animals, and not humans? I'm sure you eat plants, animals, or both. Why is it not okay to kill "complex organisms" of 16 cells? Why is not okay to kill "complex organisms" the size of a pencil tip? Why is it not okay to kill "complex organisms" that resemble tadpoles with a monkey or pig face? I'm sure you wouldn't be pleased if PETA told you that you could no longer eat animals, simply because "complex organisms are complex organisms."

I have considered those things. But I don't know and science cannot prove when that tadpole has a "soul". Or what ever you want to call it "soul", "being self aware". Plus science is so haphazard. Have you heard that Pluto isn’t a planet? Or would you be willing to go to a doctor who was trained with 18th century science books? I’m sure your honest answer would be NO. So that being said do you think us so advanced that people from the 22nd century would answer that question different from you? I would always error on the side of life. Maybe years from now a way will be developed in which we could communicate with or know what baby tadpoles are thinking. Then they would see our medical practices as being as barbarous as we see 18th century medicine.

Not to mention the fact this is being done to keep from inconveniencing the mother. Because she can't be out whoring around with a belly. Or heaven forbid someone be raped and get pregnant. But two wrongs don't make a right. But I wouldn’t be against a morning after pill for rape victims.

I have considered those things. But I don't know and science cannot prove when that tadpole has a "soul". Or what ever you want to call it "soul", "being self aware".
Wrong. Science has identified the different parts of the brain, and proven what they do. When the "interlinking of the brains neurons begin" an embryo is first concious of its' surrounding (realizing it's even alive), can feel pain for the first time, and trace brain waves can be detected... guess when? 26 weeks.... until then, "thoughts" and "self-awareness" are not possible.

Plus science is so haphazard. Have you heard that Pluto isn’t a planet? Or would you be willing to go to a doctor who was trained with 18th century science books?
Sure I would, because pluto wasn't discovered until 1930, the 20th century. However, the argument in itself is completely weak. Pluto didn't change; the classification of planets did. That's basically equivalent to us changing a "foot" to "13 inches" rather than "12 inches"... there's nothing scientific about voting to change something equal the system of weights and measures.

I’m sure your honest answer would be NO. So that being said do you think us so advanced that people from the 22nd century would answer that question different from you? I would always error on the side of life. Maybe years from now a way will be developed in which we could communicate with or know what baby tadpoles are thinking. Then they would see our medical practices as being as barbarous as we see 18th century medicine.
See above.... neurotransmitters in the brains [without these, no thoughts] aren't developed and working until 26 weeks.

Not to mention the fact this is being done to keep from inconveniencing the mother. Because she can't be out whoring around with a belly. Or heaven forbid someone be raped and get pregnant. But two wrongs don't make a right. But I wouldn’t be against a morning after pill for rape victims.

LMAO, according to you, at conception... "it" is a child. So it's okay to kill the "child" in rape cases, but not otherwise? I thought you were fighting for life?

Wrong. Science has identified the different parts of the brain, and proven what they do. When the "interlinking of the brains neurons begin" an embryo is first concious of its' surrounding (realizing it's even alive), can feel pain for the first time, and trace brain waves can be detected... guess when? 26 weeks.... until then, "thoughts" and "self-awareness" are not possible.


Sure I would, because pluto wasn't discovered until 1930, the 20th century. However, the argument in itself is completely weak. Pluto didn't change; the classification of planets did. That's basically equivalent to us changing a "foot" to "13 inches" rather than "12 inches"... there's nothing scientific about voting to change something equal the system of weights and measures.


See above.... neurotransmitters in the brains [without these, no thoughts] aren't developed and working until 26 weeks.



LMAO, according to you, at conception... "it" is a child. So it's okay to kill the "child" in rape cases, but not otherwise? I thought you were fighting for life?

I don't know if it's a child at conception. That’s the point I don’t trust science with decisions like this. I’m saying we should error on the side of life. I would offer the morning after pill as a compromise in rape cases. The bottom line is leaving religion out of the discussion; you have to draw the line somewhere. I just believe the line is on the wrong side of the fence.

We could have this argument all day. Short and sweet I would error on the side of life and science is always proven wrong. How many scientific things since recorded times has held up. Not many.

I don't know if it's a child at conception.
Because you refuse to read everything I posted in this thread.

That’s the point I don’t trust science with decisions like this. I’m saying we should error on the side of life.
You trust science for everything you know... give that some thought. Everything you "KNOW" to be true, you know because of science.

I would offer the morning after pill as a compromise in rape cases.
You refuse to believe that embryos aren't humans until late into pregnancy and cling to the idea of life upon conception. You're a hypocrite. A child who is the result of rape is no less of a person than a planned child.

The bottom line is leaving religion out of the discussion; you have to draw the line somewhere. I just believe the line is on the wrong side of the fence.
You won't leave religion out because it's all you have to cling to. Everything I've said here, isn't crap I pulled out of my ass. It's scientific fact. It isn't a theory, it's fact. You can refuse to believe reality all you wish. If science denounces your religion, you better re-interpret the bible.

We could have this argument all day. Short and sweet I would error on the side of life and science is always proven wrong. How many scientific things since recorded times has held up. Not many.

Yes, we could do this all day. I've got you a corner and you realize that you, and every other arrogant pro-lifer out there is ignorant to the science side of things sound ridiculous. IIRC you stated you didn't know the science side of things... so who are you to even have a voice in the matter?

This is a purely scientific matter, not a moral matter. If it's killing people, then 100% of abortions should be illegal. If it's not killing people, then 100% of abortions should be legal. It's as simple as that; you can't pick and choose on the basis of "SHES WHORING AROUND." The fact is, embryos don't resemble humans, aren't humans, and aren't capable of "self-awareness" until very late into pregnancy. You have no leg to stand on, but if you reply to this with another audible of yours i'll be more than glad to pick that to pieces also.

Accept reality and move on. Thanks sweetheart.

Yes, we could do this all day. I've got you a corner and you realize that you, and every other arrogant pro-lifer out there is ignorant to the science side of it. IIRC you stated you didn't know the science side of things... so who are you to even have a voice in the matter?



A corner? It seems more like a circle. We just keep coming up with different ways of saying the same things.

I am just as familiar with the scientific facts you are repeating as you are. I say repeating because that's all you are doing. Repeating other people's theories and studies and saying they're facts.

But I actually have kids and you are one. So who are you to even have a voice in the matter?

A corner? It seems more like a circle. We just keep coming up with different ways of saying the same things.

I beg to differ. Each time you post something stupid, I beat it all to shit, prove you don't know what you're talking about, and leave you calling an audible and changing directions.

--1st, here you are saying that abortions are "Killing"... life beginning at conception:

So basically what you are saying is I got some girl pregnant and now I don't want to play house anymore and we are just going to KILL the baby.

Everyone wants to fix the symptom not the problem. Which in this case means KILLING the baby. Instead of not having sex unless you are prepared to have a baby.

You can quote scientists or anyone you want but when a cell starts replicating I would say that constitutes life.

--2nd, you toned it down, and went with the complex organism speech:

At least I admit that I can't prove anything and that everything I say is my opinion. I would say that a complex organism at any stage is still a complex organism.

--3rd, after that was easily defeated you went with this crap:

I don't know and science cannot prove when that tadpole has a "soul". Or what ever you want to call it "soul", "being self aware".

--and here in the 4th quarter, I have changed your mind and proven to you, and everyone else, that you're uneducated, and have no idea what you're talking about:

I don't know if it's a child at conception.

I am just as familiar with the scientific facts you are repeating as you are. I say repeating because that's all you are doing. Repeating other people's theories and studies and saying they're facts.

lmao, do you put an OUNCE of thought into this crap before posting it? NO ONE here has observed 99% of things we know to be true. If a scientists (especially in our age with our technology) observes something over and over, it becomes LAW. As mentioned, the things i've posted here have been proven.

But I actually have kids and you are one. So who are you to even have a voice in the matter?

This a matter for people who are educated in the area. Obviously you aren't, which has been proven here, although I did a damn good job of having you do a 180 on your little thesis. Pretty funny that you claim to be an "adult", but think that age makes one an adult.

I don't talk shit about things I know nothing about. I can admit when I'm wrong. I am more of an adult, sadly, than you will ever be. I pray that you don't fill your child's head with this narrow-minded ignorant bullshit you post on this forum.

/thread... you're owned... admit you were mouthing off not knowing what the fuck you were talking about. Tuck your tail and shut the fuck up.

There it is the same old stuff just a different post. I do like the football theme though.



Is Google considered an education?

There it is the same old stuff just a different post. I do like the football theme though.



Is Google considered an education?

lmao same old stuff? Every "point" you've rambeled I have torn to shit. You certainly changed your tune from "ITS MURDER" to "well i dont know"... yeah, you do know... you were proven wrong. You're a complete imbecile. You aren't educated, mainly because you aren't capable of learning anything. You're set in your backwoods mentality ways because that's the way your "Daddy done it."

SNTP, post-whore extradoinaire gives better replies to topics than you do. You are seriously one of the most genuinely stupid people I've ever encountered.

Yawn... I'm waiting...

Any other "BABY MURDERERS!!!" morons need a spanking?

I've always wondered what do you base your "torn to shit theory" on.

You do realize this isn't a rap battle right? Do you have a group standing behind going "yo yo man you got him"?

I'm just expressing my opinions between watching TV and working. In the end I really don't care what anyone here thinks. If it makes you feel good that you think you got me. I'm glad I could bring some sunshine to your otherwise meaningless life.

I've always wondered what do you base your "torn to shit theory" on.

You do realize this isn't a rap battle right? Do you have a group standing behind going "yo yo man you got him"?

I'm just expressing my opinions between watching TV and working.

You're expressing illogical opinions based on absolutely nothing. Every path you've tried to escape to has been shut down. You do realize I'm eleventy light years ahead of you in every aspect of this argument, and that trying a subject change won't work with me, right?

P.S.... Why did you go from "its murder", through 2 or 3 other paths, now you're down to "well i dont know" ???

Know your place jethro.

My opinions towards things like abortion are based on life experiences and my faith.

Maybe someday you will have some to go along with your stellar wit and education.

My opinions towards things like abortion are based on life experiences and my faith.

Maybe someday you will have some to go along with your stellar wit and education.
So your life experiences denounce scientific fact? There's institutions for people like you... and nice white jackets...

You can't base something like this on faith either. "Thou shalt not kill." You assume that means human, correct? As mentioned a thousand times, that happened to fly above your head... embryos are NOT humans.

So there goes another argument... What can I expect next? "WELL THIS IS JUST MY OPINION BASED ON ABSOLUTELY NOT SHIT BUT MY STUBBORN RETARDED ASS WAYS."?

Give me a break.

These kinds of things aren’t black and white. On some subjects feelings and beliefs can override current scientific fact.

goodnight

These kinds of things aren’t black and white. On some subjects feelings and beliefs can override current scientific fact.

goodnight

Well, first I'd like to apologize for being a bit abrasive with name calling... it's uncalled for. I don't WANT people to agree me simply to agree me. I will respect anyone's opinion that I feel they have put thought, research, and empathy into.... I don't think you have on this matter... which is why I really don't respect your opinion.

there is no right or wrong answer on abortion because

if you are an atheist, there is no right or wrong period. social morals are derived from societal standards. i.e. in the olden days, we were underpopulated and needed hands for farming. abortion was wrong because we need more farmers!

since there is no right and wrong, it doesn't particularly matter if you abort babies or not. society will eventually see it as morally correct as the world becomes more overpopulated and underfed.

if you are one of the various world religion peeps that oppose abortion, then abortion is wrong... because killing is bad, and you are sure that an abortion constitutes a killing at any point during a pregnancy. please reference this thread for a question concerning souls and abortion.

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showthread.php?p=117694#post117694

/shameless plug

geezus khrist.

Kids having kids.

There needs to be a bill that stupilates that u must make x-amount of $$$$ to have kids.....


That would solve so many problems in the US. Nothing bad could come from it. Less crime and a happier life for all would be the result.

if you are one of the various world religion peeps that oppose abortion, then abortion is wrong... because killing is bad, and you are sure that an abortion constitutes a killing at any point during a pregnancy.

This isn't a matter of religion. It's a simple matter of science. Is killing humans wrong? Yes it is. Are embryos humans? No they aren't, so it isn't "murder."

THE




END.

This isn't a matter of religion. It's a simple matter of science. Is killing humans wrong? Yes it is. Are embryos humans? No they aren't, so it isn't "murder."

THE




END.

But, in America, religion takes law by storm; see also: gay marriage.

This isn't a matter of religion. It's a simple matter of science. Is killing humans wrong? Yes it is. Are embryos humans? No they aren't, so it isn't "murder."


without religion or socially deemed morality where do you draw your conclusion that killing humans is wrong?

that is a huge leap of faith on your part.

without religion or socially deemed morality where do you draw your conclusion that killing humans is wrong?

that is a huge leap of faith on your part.

What part are you missing? I'm saying religion is irrelevant. Whether you think killing is okay or not.. IT ISN'T FUCKING KILLING SO WHAT DOES RELIGION HAVE TO DO WITH IT?

Jesus Christ, fucking read.

actually you said:

Is killing humans wrong? Yes it is. Are embryos humans? No they aren't, so it isn't "murder."

implying that killing wasn't wrong as long as you weren't killing humans.

and i was pointing out that you were making an assumption that killing humans was wrong.

a moral judgment like that is either imposed by:
1) a higher power (if you are religious)
2) or by society (if you view morality as derived from social cost/benefit analysis)

the argument for point 2 being that abortion will eventually be seen as a moral 'right' when the social benefits of abortion outweigh the costs. (like birth control)

my previously unstated point for that being, discussions like these are nothing more than 'growing pains' as society moves from one social standard to another, and are ultimately pointless.

actually you said:



implying that killing wasn't wrong as long as you weren't killing humans.

and i was pointing out that you were making an assumption that killing humans was wrong.

a moral judgment like that is either imposed by:
1) a higher power (if you are religious)
2) or by society (if you view morality as derived from social cost/benefit analysis)

the argument for point 2 being that abortion will eventually be seen as a moral 'right' when the social benefits of abortion outweigh the costs. (like birth control)

my previously unstated point for that being, discussions like these are nothing more than 'growing pains' as society moves from one social standard to another, and are ultimately pointless.


and you totally missed the point that it doesn't fucking matter because they aren't humans to begin with.

and you totally missed the point that it doesn't fucking matter because they aren't humans to begin with.


You keep repeating that, hoping that will make it true . . .

and you totally missed the point that it doesn't fucking matter because they aren't humans to begin with.

wtf... you are obviously not reading.

that's not even a consideration in my argument whether they are or are not human DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL. it has no bearing on anything and is basically a useless point to argue over.

the argument is that abortion was formerly seen as wrong cuz we wuz subsistence farmers and needed handz for the werkin of crops.

in other words, the need for working bodies, underpopulation and ignorance regarding human reproductiong lead to the development of social morals that were against contraception, masturbation and abortion.

as the world becomes more overpopulated, resources become stretched and the need for a human workforce dwindles, and we gain greater understand of biology, these old arguments fade away.

when the social benefits of abortion weigh favorably against the costs, and those old social mores are gone, abortion of uwanted babies will be seen as morally correct.

I'm on the fence about first trimester abortions. It's the debate of human life vs. sending another child through the hell of CPS, foster homes, and orphanages. For the record, I am an agnostic.

Partial birth abortions are just fucked up, though.

that's not even a consideration in my argument whether they are or are not human DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL. it has no bearing on anything and is basically a useless point to argue over.

No, it's the only point to argue over.... as I said, it's a matter of science, not religion or morals.