Some of you might remember me talking about two novels by Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. They are really more like philosophy books, and the philosophy is called Objectivism. This is their website:

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer

It turns out that Atlas Shrugged is actually going to be turned into a movie, so for those of you who don't feel like chewing on the 900 page novel, you can just go and watch the trilogy. I figured we could at least start a discussion on Objectivism, as I'd like to bring some more philosophy into this section.

Thank you for the Final Jeopardy! hint under obscure Rush facts.

Anyways, back to Objectivism.

The universe exists independent of consciousness.

Ever heard of the theory of One? It basically states that all things known and perceived are merely constructs of your mind. Everything and everyone you know is simply a creation of your mind, thus making all things, physical or otherwise, dependant on your consciousness.

Objectivism generally rubs a certain crowd the wrong way. You’ll have your work cut out for you trying to keep this thread on topic.

A good amount of this stuff sounds very familiar because I've heard versions of it before. My sifu (teacher) in china, who's a brilliant man, has touched on some of these topics before. ex:

Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man's feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.

Not only were conversations about objective and subjective realities had, he said something along the lines of "Truth can only be had in the moment, once its in the past its a fact. Facts are neither right or wrong, fair or unfair, a fact is a fact."

Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.

"The most important thing to a you is you, weather you want to believe it or not. After all, if you dont exist how are you gonna care about anything else?"

Mind you those quotes went from chinese to japanese to english and I'm pulling them from memory so its not word for word.

Objectivism is right about one thing though, an intentional, selfless act can not exist.

Objectivism is right about one thing though, an intentional, selfless act can not exist.

Absolutely. Every "good intention" comes with a price tag.

Absolutely. Every "good intention" comes with a price tag.

Not sure that we're on the same page here. What I meant was, everything that man does intentionally, he does in order to benefit himself. This is an inescapable aspect of human nature.

I have to agree with Ark2 on this one...

i absolutely never thought i would see the subject of objectivism here but i really am happy it popped up. if there were an option i would have to declare objectivism my religion. i have read the fountainhead a couple of times and i am reading atlas shrugged right now.

to truly understand the thoughts behind objectivism you really have to read her books. they really dont come off as philosophy disguised as a story but rather a collection of stories about inter related people that ultimately tie together to allow you to determine your own philosophy which is ultimately objectivism.

sorry for the crap grammar, i am on my cell.

Not sure that we're on the same page here. What I meant was, everything that man does intentionally, he does in order to benefit himself. This is an inescapable aspect of human nature.

I agree with that, but I still think it all comes with a price tag.

I agree with that, but I still think it all comes with a price tag.

Care to expand on that?

Care to expand on that?

Sure.

Look at all large charitable contributions: How many would still be made if there was no tax write-off? Some people that make such contributions do so with strings attached such as, "I will donate x amount of dollars, as long as the money is used for y, and only in my hometown."

Sure.

Look at all large charitable contributions: How many would still be made if there was no tax write-off? Some people that make such contributions do so with strings attached such as, "I will donate x amount of dollars, as long as the money is used for y, and only in my hometown."

Yupp. Further illustrating the fact that everything is done with a selfish purpose in mind. Whether something is done to reap financial benefits or to simply ease the guilt of indifference, it's all done for numero uno.

I haven't been in the mood to come in here for the past couple days.

My bullshit quota for the month has already been filled.