In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.

Researchers emphasized that their work can't address whether God exists or answers prayers made on another's behalf. The study can only look for an effect from prayers offered as part of the research, they said.

They also said they had no explanation for the higher complication rate in patients who knew they were being prayed for, in comparison to patients who only knew it was possible prayers were being said for them.

http://www.rpi.edu/~turcoj/Timeline/Art%20History/1930-ray-prayer.jpg

Critics said the question of God's reaction to prayers simply can't be explored by scientific study.

The work, which followed about 1,800 patients at six medical centers, was financed by the Templeton Foundation, which supports research into science and religion. It will appear in the American Heart Journal.

Dr. Herbert Benson of Harvard Medical School and other scientists tested the effect of having three Christian groups pray for particular patients, starting the night before surgery and continuing for two weeks. The volunteers prayed for "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications" for specific patients, for whom they were given the first name and first initial of the last name.

The patients, meanwhile, were split into three groups of about 600 apiece: those who knew they were being prayed for, those who were prayed for but only knew it was a possibility, and those who weren't prayed for but were told it was a possibility.

The researchers didn't ask patients or their families and friends to alter any plans they had for prayer, saying such a step would have been unethical and impractical.

‘Why would God change his plans for a particular person just because they're in a research study?’

http://www.csicop.org/sb/9709/prayer.gif

The study looked for any complications within 30 days of the surgery. Results showed no effect of prayer on complication-free recovery. But 59 percent of the patients who knew they were being prayed for developed a complication, versus 52 percent of those who were told it was just a possibility.

Dr. Harold G. Koenig, director of the Center for Spirituality, Theology and Health at the Duke University Medical Center, who didn't take part in the study, said the results didn't surprise him.

"There are no scientific grounds to expect a result and there are no real theological grounds to expect a result either," he said. "There is no god in either the Christian, Jewish or Moslem scriptures that can be constrained to the point that they can be predicted."

Within the Christian tradition, God would be expected to be concerned with a person's eternal salvation, he said, and "why would God change his plans for a particular person just because they're in a research study?"

Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."

http://www.dumbphotos.com/images/Animals/prayer.jpg

I've been praying that God would heal ur mind with tantamount results to the topic of this thread........

Dr. Herbert Benson of Harvard Medical School and other scientists tested the effect of having three Christian groups pray for particular patients, starting the night before surgery and continuing for two weeks. The volunteers prayed for "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications" for specific patients, for whom they were given the first name and first initial of the last name.
Um, it seems those "Christians" need to brush up on their prayer. Allow me to make one quick point after I quote "The LORD's Prayer".
Our Father which are in Heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For Thine is the Kingdom, and the Power, and the Glory, Forever. Amen.
So, based on this and other Scriptures, Christians are to pray for God's will to be done - regardless of what the outcome may be. So, what did they expect the outcome of the study to be if they are praying in a manner not taught by the Holy Scriptures?

Anyway, that's my $0.02

If this study showed that prayer worked, would any of you folks who remain unconverted suddenly decide that God is real?

Probably not because unless God draws you to himself you will never believe. It's supernatural.

wtf is with those pictures?

I knew someone would say that.

Guess u beat YZF-R1 to it ..............

"You shall not test the Lord thy God"

that article was t3h dumb.

I should clarify that requests are not always self centered or bad, with the right attitude

Philippians 4

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
I agree, sorry if I came across the wrong way. Even Christ prayed before his execution . . .

[38] Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
[39] And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
[40] And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
[41] Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
[42] He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
[43] And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.
[44] And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.
So, I agree. A prayer with the right attitude and with proper respect to God's will that is for the physical well-being of yourself or others is fine. As you can see, even Christ prayed repeatedly for his well-being IF it was God's will.

"You shall not test the Lord thy God"

fuck that I'll test him all I want....what he doesn't work well under pressure or something?

Um, it seems those "Christians" need to brush up on their prayer. Allow me to make one quick point after I quote "The LORD's Prayer"


Thy will be done in Earth? So God's powers are only good underground? ;)

Thy will be done in Earth? So God's powers are only good underground? ;)
Ha ha. Good catch :)

Maybe they start underground and radiate upwards? It would explain pretty much all seismic activity! ha ha lol ;)

and all that lava flow is really holy ejaculate.......

and all that lava flow is really holy ejaculate.......
Holy holy ejaculae, Batman!

Sorry, I had to.

fuck that I'll test him all I want....what he doesn't work well under pressure or something?

Hey, it's His words, not mine, and I think He knows what He is talking about.

I would suppose, it is disrespectful to test your boss, man :p

There were times in the bible where God was tested, check out Gideon, for example.

Um, it seems those "Christians" need to brush up on their prayer. Allow me to make one quick point after I quote "The LORD's Prayer".

So, based on this and other Scriptures, Christians are to pray for God's will to be done - regardless of what the outcome may be. So, what did they expect the outcome of the study to be if they are praying in a manner not taught by the Holy Scriptures?

Anyway, that's my $0.02


Maybe it's just me, but does anyone else find that to be absolutely retarded? What the hell is the point of praying for God's will to be done? That's like having someone rob you at gunpoint, and just sit there telling them that you hope that they do what they intend to do, whether it be blow your fucking brains out or leave you alone. That's absolutely asinine.

So what happens if you don't pray? Is God's will not going to be done? Is he just going to change his whole shit up on you? Or is he just going to carry through with his will either way?

"Prayer does not change God, but it changes him who prays."
-- Soren Kierkegaard

"The value of consistent prayer is not that He will hear us, but that we will hear Him."
-- William McGill

"I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go."
-- Abraham Lincoln

"Prayer gives a man the opportunity of getting to know a gentleman he hardly ever meets. I do not mean his maker, but himself."
-- William Inge

Maybe it's just me, but does anyone else find that to be absolutely retarded? What the hell is the point of praying for God's will to be done? That's like having someone rob you at gunpoint, and just sit there telling them that you hope that they do what they intend to do, whether it be blow your fucking brains out or leave you alone. That's absolutely asinine.
It would seem that way, but did you even read my second post? Basically, it said that it's fine and normal to pray for your own well-being, praying for God's will to be done helps you to realize that the outcome may or may not be what you want to hear at the time.
So what happens if you don't pray? Is God's will not going to be done? Is he just going to change his whole shit up on you? Or is he just going to carry through with his will either way?
God's will will be done either way, but He has been known to change his mind based on whether or not you pray. For instance, Jonah preached in Ninevah that God will destroy the city in 40 days. The people turned to God, and He decided not to destroy the city. As you see, it was God's will to destroy the city, had they not prayed, they would have been wiped out. I'm not going to quote the whole story from the Bible, because it would be a really long post.

"Prayer does not change God, but it changes him who prays."
-- Soren Kierkegaard



I'm a huge advocate of Kierkegaard's work. I've read quite a bit of his philosophy over the years.