Will your soul be saved?

I've been pondering this for a while now after reading all of YZF's rantings about damnation and whatnot. And the question is, is it the actions that cause you to be damned or saved? Or is it the sum of your life that is the final decision?

I'm a staunch believer that things can come down to one final action. I guess you could say that it could come down to one noble deed that would "save your soul." The worse the sum of your life is, the greater the selfless deed would need to be.

But it wouldn't work if it was done with the foreknowledge that doing said deed would cause your soul to be saved, because then you would be doing it for selfish reasons.

I don't believe this to try and justify my actions, I figure I'm already damned anyway. Might as well have a little fun on the way down ;)

"We're on an express elevator to hell...

goin down!"

aliens FTW

YZF's version will be that it comes to a single choice. that choice is whether you accept the big JC.

you can reconcile the two views. if you accept JC, then you are a good person with the holy spirit etc and you genuinely want to do good things all the damn time, which you do.

you must believe on the Son of God and commit your life to Him.commit your life to Him... hmmm... so if what you are saying is true, I should give up all my earthly possetions, dress in rags, travel the lands preaching His word.

once you are a Christian, your sins are coveredThats far to simple IMO. "Oh... yeah... forget about all those people I raped and killed, I'm a christian now."

but you still must pursue GodHow does one "pursue God" anyway? Is it that you spread His word as much as possible? Or is it that you try to live by His rules and laws? Or is it simply that you live in the best way you know how while still following His example?

Sure your bible might have a passage (or twenty) stating the way they think it should be done. But the bible isn't law. The bible is simply a book writen by mortal men with no direct contact with Him.

don't be a "oh I'll wait until I'm old to start following Christ", that is foolish, and lazy....do it NOW...did I say that?

right....how many of those "death bed" conversions you hear about are genuine in the sight of God? prob not manyI didn't even refrence conversions or religious affiliation, did I? Its like I said, death bed conversions don't work becuase they provide a "foreknowledge of salvation" thereby negating their worth. If one knows what they are doing will save their soul, are they really doing it for selfless reason? No.

What I meant is something along the lines of a man who was the worst of the worst, rapist, murderer, the whole nine yards. Then when it comes down to it, the end of his life is at hand, and he willingly sacrifices himself to save a fellow human. It could be as simple as he drowned while pulling a woman from a sinking car or something more grandiose. Whatever. But if he did this without the knowledge that it would "save his soul" in the eyes of the Lord, would it still count?

so, first and foremost, you must believe on the Son of God and commit your life to Him...apart from Me you can do nothing (in the spiritual realm) Jesus says....believe me, it's true! in my flesh dwells no good thing

once you are a Christian, your sins are covered, but you still must pursue God, or your faith is worthless....I believe God looks at the overall pattern of your life, He sees where your heart is, and what your idols are....we all sin, David says my sin is ever before me, but do we confess sin and learn from it?

This fruit loop is only half right....

JAMES 2:26--

As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

having faith is not the answer. Having the faith it takes to act as though you have faith is the ticket. And not just when the sun is shining either. Faith alone is useless if you dont have enough of it to actually do the work that comes along with it. And deeds alone are equally useless--God knows what is in the heart, so if your deeds are not motivated by a true faith, then God sees that.

It is also not just about sin, which Marky over there seems to forget. he thinks that "his sin is covered"....but what is in the heart is what makes the difference. We all sin, so there is no escaping that. Sins are only forgiven when you repent. But sin alone is not the issue either--you could work hard on your sin and improve, but if you do not go out and do God's work, you have done nothing. It is a package deal.

but if you do not go out and do God's work
that brings about the next question then.

What exactly is God's work?

And the Bible doesn't exactly help there, its too open for interpretation. Also, I don't believe it is trying to spread His word either. That is the work of the clergy. Is it as simple as trying to lead a "virtuous" life?

here's some advice: don't listen to anything jon says, he's here because he's trying to get back at me after our little run-in on rx7clubWas that you doing "God's work"?

huh?

meaning the type of person who would accept jesus as savior etc etc is has that innate 'good or at least pennant person' quality to begin with

its a variation on the free will vs. god knows all predetermination paradox

If he thinks that was trying to get back at him, he's gonna LOVE what comes next....

yes i meant penitent

SAT word just pwnt me :(

Will your soul be saved?

Actually, Sup, the true question is, "Is there really something you need to be saved from???"

Mark constantly tells me I'm destined for Hell. I constantly tell Mark that if his rules don't apply to me, because I choose not to believe them or in the "authority" behind them, then the outcome doesn't apply to me either.

I try to do the right thing because it's the right thing, not because someone is dangling the Carrot Of Salvation in front of me.

Actually, Sup, the true question is, "Is there really something you need to be saved from???"
;)

I just wanted to hear the opinions from the peanut gallery :D

You seem to miss the point everytime. If someone doesn't believe in your rules (religion), then said rules do not apply. He lives his life the way he sees fit. He goes out of his way to help others at times, and thats a good thing. If we die and there is a god then, oh well. Atleast it can't be said that he was bad person. As far as sin goes you have no way of telling how much sin one person has. You know none of us that you judge. If anything him doing the right thing is worth more then some christians who do it just to look good in the eyes of their lord. Because that is a selfish reason. I can't say why he does it but I know that when I help someone that I don't know I do it because if I was in their position I would want help too. Anyway.....have a nice day.

...every knee will bow, every tongue confess Jesus Christ as Lord, to the glory of God the FatherNot mine. Fuck 'em. I'm a good hearted person who helps others. If God is too self centered to realize that, then he's an asshole.
(BTW, it's obvious you realize God is an egotistical dickhead as you try ever so hard to be like him. By the way you describe him using select scripture, you two could be twins. ;) )

it's not *my* rules
I meant they are your rules to follow.

Ok, they may apply to all we don't know. But if we don't believe in the same religion then we do not believe in the same rules therefore you won't follow my rules given to me by whatever my beliefs may be and I won't follow yours. Because they are rules given to us by our respective religions, and they may or may not coincide.

;)

I just wanted to hear the opinions from the peanut gallery :D

It's always the same bag of nuts in here, you can probably predict the opinions pretty accurately. :D

we all face the same Judge...we are being saved from God's own wrath

and without Christ's atoning work, there is no hope for anyone to be declared righteous in the sight of God, because God's standard is perfection: if you break even one commandment, you are guilty of all...by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight

so yes, kevin, the rules apply to you, whether you choose to acknowledge that in this short life or not...every knee will bow, every tongue confess Jesus Christ as Lord, to the glory of God the Father

Yet, if you're wrong, the rules of someone else can apply to YOU. What if we were all meant to be Jihad screaming militant Islamic extremists?

You, me, Dennis, everyone, we'd all be fucked. And, no offense, but the way you describe God... No thanks. He creates us just to torment us, then if we don't follow the policy, we get fucked in the ass by Satan in hell forever? Dude, you can have him.

and your sin still piles to the clouds

so does mine, but don't try to justify yourself

why not?? you try to justify yourself all the time when it comes to sin...."you are covered", remember? So, you think that you have the ultimate get out of jail free card, and you also think that sinning all that you can now doesnt mean anything because of that supposed salvation?

You are an ass, plain and simple....

God did not create us to "torment us", that is absurd

Maybe not, but he damn sure created YOU to torment someone....

commit your life to Him... hmmm... so if what you are saying is true, I should give up all my earthly possetions, dress in rags, travel the lands preaching His word.

Thats far to simple IMO. "Oh... yeah... forget about all those people I raped and killed, I'm a christian now."


You guys giving this 'works' advice need to check your bibles.

God requires us to repent and put our trust in Christ. It's all over the New Testament. Repent means to surrender, you come to an agreement with God that you've broken his laws. His laws are written in your heart and if you haven't hardened yourself to them, your conscience will convict you of this. You receive the forgiveness of your transgressions, which are called sins, by genuinely asking for it. God made it simple so that no one can boast that he earned his way into heaven. It doesn't work through good deeds. In an act similar to Christ, you humble yourself before God and surrender. God knows your heart. You can't fool him. No magic prayer. No number of good deeds. Simply humble yourself before him and surrender.

Then get a bible and read it every day to learn about the Lord. Which version should you get? Find one you can understand. Ask God to help you understand what he wants you to know. Also, pray. Thank God for the things he's done for you. Tell him how you feel. It's a relationship. These 2 are most important.

Get into a bible believing church. Surround yourself with other believers who can help you grow. Your life with God should not be stagnant.

When you understand what God has done for you, you will seek to serve the Lord. You will do good works, but this is in gratitude.

You guys who say 'the rules don't apply if you don't believe them' are lying to yourselves. Does gravity not apply to you if you choose not to believe in it? Rubbish. Creation screams out to you that there is a creator. If you can't stand what I'm saying, check yourself, have you hardened your heart to the concept of God. If you've hardened your heart, none of this could possibly make sense. To the rest of us the Gospel is the power of God that reconciles us to him. The cruficixion and ressurrection of Christ to you is nonsense. You won't even consider it fact. To me, it is the most important event that has ever occurred. Everything else pales in significance.

YZF, can I hear an amen, brother?

You guys who say 'the rules don't apply if you don't believe them' are lying to yourselves. Does gravity not apply to you if you choose not to believe in it? Rubbish.

I knew that was coming, so it's time to point out the difference between rules of behavior and laws of physics.

You're comparing apples and handgrenades there, my friend.

I knew that was coming, so it's time to point out the difference between rules of behavior and laws of physics.

You're comparing apples and handgrenades there, my friend.

Fair enough. Let's try to reason through this. If there is no God, then yes, any rules made by men do not apply to all men. Why? Because among men, there would be no authority over all. Is there one man who has authority over all men? Then answer is no, not even GWB.

But, if there is a God and he makes rules, then despite whether or not men acknowledge him, God's rules still apply to all men. Does this make sense?

Fair enough. Let's try to reason through this. If there is no God, then yes, any rules made by men do not apply to all men. Why? Because among men, there would be no authority over all. Is there one man who has authority over all men? Then answer is no, not even GWB.

There's no authority over all men anyway, God or not.

But, if there is a God and he makes rules, then despite whether or not men acknowledge him, God's rules still apply to all men. Does this make sense?

Sure, that theory is fundamentally sound.

Now, let's reason through this:

If you are correct, and there is only ONE system of belief, and that system of belief is Christianity, then the rules of the christian God apply to all men. If, however, you are incorrect, and there is either A) more than one God, B) only one God, but multiple systems of belief to which a part of him/her/it can apply, C) One God who is not the God of Christian belief, or D) no God whatsoever, then the rules of Christianity do NOT apply.

Do you agree that my theory is also fundamentally sound?

It's always the same bag of nuts in here, you can probably predict the opinions pretty accurately. :D

The peanut is nither a pea, or a nut. It's a vegetable :)

I knew that was coming, so it's time to point out the difference between rules of behavior and laws of physics.

You're comparing apples and handgrenades there, my friend.

it's not *that* different.

we stick to the ground because of gravity.
-what is gravity? what causes it?

well, apparently everything in the entire universe that has mass simply attracts anything else with mass.
-why does it do that?

well, apparently the very existence of mass causes the curvature of space-time around itself. objects 'falling inwards' towards the mass are really following a straight line through curved space time.
-well... wtf. so why does mass curve space time?

'because it does.'

it's not *that* different.

we stick to the ground because of gravity.
-what is gravity? what causes it?

well, apparently everything in the entire universe that has mass simply attracts anything else with mass.
-why does it do that?

well, apparently the very existence of mass causes the curvature of space-time around itself. objects 'falling inwards' towards the mass are really following a straight line through curved space time.
-well... wtf. so why does mass curve space time?

'because it does.'

Actually, you completely missed the point. The rules of the Bible are written by man. The penalties are a complete theory, because there is no proof. You can PROVE the laws of physics.

are you a Hindu witch now? :) they believe in thousands of "gods"

Witches pick whichever deity or deities they identify with.

which is ridiculous....the universe screams order, design, harmony, synergy...the Laws of Physics of the universe display the singluar mind of Wisdom, otherwise there would be chaos



So you're saying there can be one wise God, but there can't be multiple wise Gods?

Actually, you completely missed the point. The rules of the Bible are written by man. The penalties are a complete theory, because there is no proof. You can PROVE the laws of physics.

edit: alright my original post was wordy and didn't really make a point

science doesn't give us any definitive truths... it only describes effects.

this is going to sound funky but

if something is true
but you cannot prove it is true
that does not stop it from being true

are you a Hindu witch now? they believe in thousands of "gods"

actually they believe in one supreme god
the deities/gods under him are 'aspects' of that same penultimate god

there is abundant information to suggest the Bible is not just a random work of fiction:

1) flood geology and fossil record

Which can't accurately be recreated to know if any of it is right. You completely disavow carbon dating unless it suits you, and since you can't cover the earth in water, you can't tell if your "flood geology" is a giant ball of shit or not.

2) the history of Israel, including archeological evidence of the two previous temples

So what? They found the city of Troy, they found evidence of the siege, it's written down in the Iliad... So, does that automatically mean Athena and Zeus were there? C'mon Mark, you can do better than that. Or, can you?

3) the Dead Sea Scrolls, which prove the accuracy of the Bible has been perserved for over 2,000 years

Ok, let's say the accuracy of the Bible has been preserved. The accuracy of the Iliad has also been preserved. It doesn't make either of them any more TRUE.

4) the amount of information which indicates a young earth, in deference to the claims of evolutionists (e.g. C14 dating of dinosuar bones)

C-14 dating: scientists claim it's pretty accurate, and creationits claim it's horseshit. It's just like tobacco trials... Both sides can bring 100 doctors, both backing whichever side they're on.

edit: alright my original post was wordy and didn't really make a point

science doesn't give us any definitive truths... it only describes effects.

this is going to sound funky but

if something is true
but you cannot prove it is true
that does not stop it from being true

OK, that's just peachy. Again, you can't compare written rules of man to laws of science. Rules of man change. Laws of science do not.

OK, that's just peachy. Again, you can't compare written rules of man to laws of science. Rules of man change. Laws of science do not.

biblical rules of morality are rules written by men?

that's a faith based belief.

biblical rules of morality are rules written by men?

that's a faith based belief.

Wrong. That's a faith enforced set of rules.

Which can't accurately be recreated to know if any of it is right. You completely disavow carbon dating unless it suits you, and since you can't cover the earth in water, you can't tell if your "flood geology" is a giant ball of shit or not.



So what? They found the city of Troy, they found evidence of the siege, it's written down in the Iliad... So, does that automatically mean Athena and Zeus were there? C'mon Mark, you can do better than that. Or, can you?



Ok, let's say the accuracy of the Bible has been preserved. The accuracy of the Iliad has also been preserved. It doesn't make either of them any more TRUE.



C-14 dating: scientists claim it's pretty accurate, and creationits claim it's horseshit. It's just like tobacco trials... Both sides can bring 100 doctors, both backing whichever side they're on.

C'mon Mark, don't just argue with a small part of my post, take it on line by line like I do yours.

Wrong. That's a faith enforced set of rules.

misunderstanding.

my post meant your personal belief that religious rules of behavior are mad-made is a faith based belief.

you don't know if it is faith enforced or supernaturally enforced. what allows you to ignore them as purely mad-made is the same thing that convinces yzf that they are real. faith.

as for the whole gravity analogy, it goes beyond the topic of the thread. suffice to say the laws of physics are not laid in concrete like you most people think. gravity is not eternal and universal. the laws change depending on the state of the universe. hell, the laws don't even apply if you start looking on a small enough scale (quantum mechanics).

most of your lame points we've already been over many times kevin, either on this forum or the rx7club...it's an endless do-loop
Yet here you are, every time.
Hmmmm.

excellent post

everyone has faith

atheists believe a "big bang" spontaneously created the universe, from nothing....that is FAITH

You're an ignorant stupid asshole, Mark, and you don't know dick about anything outside your little squishy "Daddy don't beat me no more!" bubble.

I'm an Atheist. Deities are for the weak minded humans of the Earth who can't deal with their own mortality, or the fact that man is still nothing more than an animal with intellect, and so are predatory by nature.
Buncha God Damned little pussies are afraid of everyfuckingthing.

But I don't know for sure there was a Big Bang. It's a theory...Hell of a lot more plausible then your (or any other asshole's) god.

And you should read up on the Big Bang theory sometime, because as I understand it, nothing came from "nothing" in that theory, you big doofy fuck.

Why not Honegod?
You can never seem to answer him. He brings up great points, but you can't seem to hold your own against him.

Guess he wins at your little "chess game" of debating the good book.

You're a lying piece of shit.

if you are an atheist, at some point in the past, there was *nothing*, and, later, there was *something* (unless you believe matter and energy is eternal, which is counter to the Laws of Physics and impossible)Explain. I want to hear, scientifically, how if there is an eternal energy, it is "counter to the laws of physics, and impossible".

even if that *something* was the first hydrogen atom, it is still mind bogglingly complex and highly structured...and furthermore we do not know the limits of the nuclear worldUnlike you, I do not claim to know all there is to know about life. I also am not so obsessed with any of it as to waste my life contemplating it.

I do believe, however, that religion is pure bullshit. I believe there is no God, of any kind, and that when yer dead, yer dead. (So get busy living instead of waiting to die.)
But you seem to believe that all these centuries of science trying to prove things that go against the written word has been this gigantic ongoing conspiracy by satan or something. The billions and billions and billions of dollars and countless man hours spent trying to disprove the Bible...Wouldn't it just be so much easier to just hold the Bible as the pinultimate law of the world, and keep our heads narrow and buried in the sand?

You represent intellectual stagnation, and it's people like you, of all religions, that hold mankind back from evolving past his primal instinct to whip out his dick and piss on anyone who disagrees with him.
Religion is the bane of mankind. The only good thing about religion is that the wars fought over it...the countless, countless human lives taken in bloody clashes over religion, are for the most part religious people. -Sort of an ironic "natural selection" for the rest of us.
Unfortunatly, religious nutcases have managed to infiltrate every government on the planet since the conception of government.

Everyone should have the right to practice whatever religion they choose, as long as it does not impinge on the rights of any other to practice theirs.
People like you are a hateful cancer of society, and need to be irradicated.

And you should read up on the Big Bang theory sometime, because as I understand it, nothing came from "nothing" in that theory, you big doofy fuck.

it says everything came from a singularity

whatever predated the singularity (if anything) is unknowable.

in other words the entire universe... all existence was compressed into a infinitely miniscule point. beyond that point, even 'nothing' did not exist. there was no existence beyond that one point. then... kaboom.

"let there be light" is actually a pretty fitting description. anyway...

But I don't know for sure there was a Big Bang. It's a theory...Hell of a lot more plausible then your (or any other asshole's) god.

hardly. if anything both stories are equally fantastic and unbelieveable. the universe is a spooky place *especially* if you've studied quantum mechanics. famous quote from einstein... "god does not play dice with the universe." professors always like to introduce quantum mechanics with a rebuttal... "god not only plays dice with the universe; sometimes he throws them where they can't be seen."

First Law of Thermo: energy is neither created or destroyed in the physical realm; therefore, a supernatural Cause is inferred
Mmmmmmm... Where in the FUCK is a "supernatural Cause" inferred?!
Energy exists. What's the reason to believe that it ever didn't?
Second Law: energy always moves to a progressively lower state (increasing entropy, or "time's arrow")...and the sky is usually blue. So what? That's not explaining anything at all.

not at all! the human practice of observation and engineering of the created universe is all well and good, but by the practice of observation, man will never answer the question of origins, because science does not apply...not observable, not testable, not repeatable....so faith is requiredFaith in what? A collection of rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, testaments of a cult that followed an unemployed carpenter around, penned when the Earth was KNOWN to be flat, and the center of the universe, and penned by oppressed people who had shit, and lived in nothing but shit and hardship, and had no fucking hope whatsoever of bettering their lives?

Oh yeah. THAT makes sense.

rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten, rewritten

Dead Sea Scrolls say otherwise.

Unless you are reading a twenty-three times rewritten bible or something, the most I can think of is twice.

Where are you getting your information?

Yzf just because we believe energy eventually runs out doesn't mean it does, it may go in to an alternate state that have not yet figured out how to perceive or harness. Just because we don't know of it now doesn't mean it doesn't exist, science is ever progressing. Unless you believe that we have reached the highest peak of our existance. Which if you do you're dumber then I thought.

No its not. Because you can't even begin to think that we know everything about the universe. So calling it a closed system is stupid. Like you know everything. Sorry but you're wrong again.

exactly

FOOLS claim the Bible has been "rewritten", I've heard that false rebuke thousands of times...it was translated...painstakingly!

is any modern English translation completely error free? no! but the vast majority of the translational errors are simply a case of poor word choice
Hey douchebag its called sarcasm.

I don't need to do any, I know that said physicists don't know everything. They just have theories.

energy progressively moves to a lower state, implyng a once highlly ordered state, and the Source of that energy must be external to the universe, otherwise the universe could not exist....the universe is a closed system! energy cannot be eternal!

perfectly logical....Explain.
Explain how, because energy "progressively moves to a lower state", that means that it was ever once in a "highly ordered state".
I don't understand that at all. That does not make any sense.
And then explain just why the "sourse of that energy must be external, otherwise the Universe could not exist". I don't understand what you mean at all. You say that, and then in the same breath you say the universe is a "closed state". :scratch:
And if "energy cannot be eternal", then are you suggesting that energy is consumed or transformed into something else? By products of the consumption of energy being what?

I think when it comes to this subject you've always talked in circles and you've always been full of shit.
I think you have about as firm a grasp on basic science as you do on logic and reality. For most people, it's easy to hold on to, but for you, it's especially slippery.

You belong in a padded room.

Congratulations.
You again fail to be able to explain yourself.

It's not like there's anything else for you to do, right? (It ain't like yer workin'.)
So indulge me. "Educate" me by explaining what you mean.
You cannot.
Once you start mixing that sloppy spiritual shit into the mix of True science, it all falls apart.

When you look at what is known to be true in math and science and a general understanding of the history of the Earth and the universe, there is no disputing it. Ever. Separate theory from fact, and take only the facts and go from there.

You people are always trying to use the facts gathered thus far, along with theory (so long as it fits) and wrap it into a Biblical historical twinky.
You end up with fact + hypothesis or theory + fiction (or scripture that can never be proven as fact.)

Just because we will never be able to prove what happened before the "big bang", even if we can ever prove that, does not mean it's just fine to go ahead and taint what we do know with unprovable scripture.

...And I feel myself getting off track here anyway. I don't really give a flying fuck what you think, or anyone else, for that matter. But when you refuse to give anyone else the room to say "Well this is what I believe...", by saying that the only truth is what you believe, well that's when I see that you have zero respect for your fellow man's right to free thought, and that's why you need to be shot in yer head.

See?

well you do seem to think that it is your resposibility to try and educate us on your faith based B.S., even though most of us don't care to learn. Its kinda funny when its another subject that you refuse to do so. Maybe its because you CAN'T.

I'm not liberal by the way, you keep taggin me as one. Well seeing as how I've seen a line similar to this posted up by more then one other member, I'm not wrong for using it. I'm just saying what others have said before. So it is exactly as it should be.

jesus

you guys lash out at yzf waaay too much
don't just assume everything he says is hogwash

entropy is the tendency for things to move from a ordered state to a highly disordered one

the theory of entropy as applied to the universe as a closed system is called the 'heat death theory of the universe.' yzf is absolutely right in this respect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death

Explain how, because energy "progressively moves to a lower state", that means that it was ever once in a "highly ordered state".
I don't understand that at all. That does not make any sense.

actually it makes perfect sense.

if you have gas A on the left and gas A on the right and then let them intermingle, you'll have a mixture of the gas again. they will never separate themselves of their own accord.

if you leave a ice cube (ordered state) melting in a hot room, the water vapor will never reform itself into an ice cube on its own.

this is like middle school science class. nothing new here.

when applied to the universe, it has been shown that black holes have the highest entropy for objects of their size. so the evolution of the universe also moves towards entropy.

Yzf just because we believe energy eventually runs out doesn't mean it does

read the heat death link i posted above. that's exactly what happens.

So calling it a closed system is stupid.

calling it a closed system is very rational. saying otherwise means you believe that something exists beyond the universe. another way to put it would be to say you believe something exists beyond our very reality.

read the heat death link i posted above. that's exactly what happens.

calling it a closed system is very rational. saying otherwise means you believe that something exists beyond the universe. another way to put it would be to say you believe something exists beyond our very reality.
That may be what happens in that THEORY, it doesn't mean it actually does. Science has many theories about a great deal of things. It doesn't mean they are all true

I never said that we are in the only existing reality, there maybe others, thats just it, there may be more. I don't act like I know everything unlike yzf, I also keep my mind open to everything, well almost everything.

discrediting one of the major theories of the death of the universe as a 'mere' theory...

now you're a subscriber to 'many worlds' quantum theory

you get your beliefs from cable tv? ever watch sliders?

maybe you and YZF have more in common than you originally thought. ;)

nope, I never said I believe that there are more then one reality, and if there are others I doubt it would be like sliders.

Oh and key word in your first line....THEORIES.

As for my beliefs, no I don't get them from cable tv, yes I watched sliders a little not a big fan, but was a good show. the chick they had on it after the original one was friggin hot.

Please don't compare me to him, I don't gush hate for any large group or groups much like yzf.

Who here claims to be a physicist?

1) You didn't answer my question.

2) Thats the best you got?

Okay, we'll see how long this lasts.

Guess you just couldn't handle the truth.

Mark is going to have the whole section on ignore pretty soon.

no, it's NOT my responsiblity to educate you regarding the Laws of Thermodynamics...I educated myself, you can do the same

Let me guess, from the teachings of AIG. :rolleyes:

Yes, we know...I have numerous quotes of yours boasting about the fact that you're an engineer.

Mark, I'm growing tired of you.
I think maybe I'll have you fired tomorrow, just fer fun.

Naw. No threats.

I'm making a time sheet...a schedule of all your post times.
Pretty interesting.
...Are you retired?
;)

Yes.
Yes I am. I'm obsessed with conforonting error.
:)

Michigan Tech University...I am a 15 year professional engineer ya know ;)

So, you didn't educate yourself. Someone taught you.

Again, words have exact meanings, so on and so forth, you know the rest.

you know what I mean

what does anyone know they haven't been told (or read)? there is no such thing as educating yourself in a vacuum of course

No, I don't know what you mean. There are people who are self-taught things... Like this guy:

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/history/Mathematicians/Ramanujan.html

sure, Knopfler was "self taught" on guitar

but you're missing the point, in science, no one exists alone, everyone works within a framework of what has already been studied

But, you can still teach yourself how to do things... Sometimes, that way is better. You don't have the predisposed notions of the ones doing the teaching. Perfect example is AIG: They give you some sort of article, written specifically to reach the conclusions they've decided you need to reach. I disagree with that.

Now, on your point of working within the framework of what has already been done: That's why they don't re-invent the wheel everytime they work on something.

However, I refuse to see how every ounce of science needs to be compared to the Bible (or any sort of religion). I also fail to see how any new research needs to be deemed "questioning the Bible".

Mark is going to have the whole section on ignore pretty soon.

no he wont--he is simply full of shit. Didnt he say just last week that he put Dennis on ignore? Yet here he is, even today, responding to Dennis's posts....he is just a liar.

I'm havin fun now, jonnie

catch the next hurricane, may you be BURIED!!!!!!!!!

WOW, what a real live uber christian we have here among us.....

funny--I thought I was on ignore too....but now he replies to my posts. Like I said, nothing but a complete lying hypocrite. Go with God, scooter....hopefully He loves you, because no one else could possibly want your diseased fake wannabe ass...:owned:

that's odd....and here you were, all last week, bitching and bragging about how "that psycho demonic Jonnie" was on "permanent ignore".....

Proof positive that you are nothing but a lying asshole.....thanks for playing, you tool....

or....what?? Gonna threaten to whip out a 12 gage at my face again, bitch? Or maybe, you could dance naked around a bonfire, rubbing your nipples and clenching your ass-cheeks together in frenzied joy one more time that jonnie lost his house last year...whadaya say, you make-believe christian?

You are one totally miserable little fuck of a man, marky. You're a hollow shell, filled with nothing but anger. And the bible is chock full of references to the fact that God does not side with bitter, angry, bragging, boastful, self-righteous, arrogant, hypocritical, dishonest little freaks such as yourself who run around at 39 years of age, still acting like the bully on the second grade playground.

Hey, asshole, why dont you tell us all again how much you bench?? It's been what, a couple weeks, maybe a month, since you last mentioned it?? Isnt it about time to revel in your own roid-induced selfish accomplishments again, freak? You are the most pitiful creature God created, and I actually feel sorry for you....

By the way, SOMEONE must read it--after all, you DID comment on what I actually wrote in your earlier post, liar...

and the loser cant reply once again....this is what happens, Marky, when you lie. You get caught in that lie, and it only makes you look even more retarded when the only comeback you can come up with is "fuck you, jon".

Arent ya gonna tell me to be buried again??

Retard.....

aww, damn....I was SO looking forward to your constant laughter at last year's events....and so disappointed that we didnt get to see you jacking off to the thought of more bad weather in the south this year....

WOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!!

THERE's the Marky we all know and hate!!!!

Next time, at least TRY to act like you are deriving joy from saying it, Mark....we all know how much ya wanna spank the monkey when you think of me losing that house......

what--you dont like hearing about the comments you say?? Pity...after all, if you didnt say such things, no one would be able to give you such a reply, bonehead....The truth always finds a way to bite you in the ass eventually, Marky, and this is in fact a direct by-product of your bullshit in action.

Have a nice day!!

oh, I will....it is easy to have a nice day when one realizes that they are not you....I cant imagine how hard it must be to try so hard to live to completely separate lives at the same time....must be hard when you get mad in the "real" world, in front of your "friends". Funny thing about friends though, Marky--if your friendships are based upon lies, then you actually dont have any friends. I do believe that the term your church uses is "excommunication" for extreme cases like yours....you try to hang on so tightly to both existences that you cannot give up one for the other....and it is going to be your downfall--sooner or later you are going to slip up. And when you do, those people will be looking at you, wondering who in the hell Marky really is. They will be wondering how you fooled them for so long....pathetic, I actually pity you

You too--oh, I hear she's getting a little flat, Marky....better give her a few pumps. After all, it is the weekend and I dont want your good time going, well, flat....

original!

hypocrite!

how about you answer a question HONESTLY for once??

You keep claiming that I am the problem....when you supposedly had me on ignore, why were you still the same old asshole to everyone else? I was not even involved in your discussion--you did not reply to me at all, so yocu ant pin that on me. yet you were still a little fake ass bitch....who was to blame then, freak??

then you can shut the fuck up now, since you have nothing else to say, right??

And that's enough for this one, too.