http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research/story/0,,1886516,00.html

Religion is a hobby. nothing more.

Yay! This is great news. I can finally stop reading my Basic Information Before Leaving Earth, and live the rest of my 80 years assured of the knowledge that there is no God. Thank you for sending us this important and life changing information.

The 9 minute observation of a perfect blackbody spectrum easily proves that the creationists have it all wrong. What a bunch of rubes. This is so easy to understand why didn't I think of it myself?

Yay! This is great news. I can finally stop reading my Basic Information Before Leaving Earth, and live the rest of my 80 years assured of the knowledge that there is no God. Thank you for sending us this important and life changing information.

The 9 minute observation of a perfect blackbody spectrum easily proves that the creationists have it all wrong. What a bunch of rubes. This is so easy to understand why didn't I think of it myself?

Let us eat, drink, and be merry!

To suggest that any man is infallable is foolish. No man I know has ever suggested that...-Oh wait. CHRISTIANS do.
In fact, no scientist EVER has said, "Now we know all there is to know on that particular subject. Next!"
Christians tell us all just when we'll all know everything, though.

sci·ence -study of the physical world: the study of the physical world and its manifestations, especially by using systematic observation and experiment

Hmmmm. "The study if the physical world".

I'm here, now. So right now, I'm going to concern myself with the "here" and the "now", and I'm gonna get busy LIVING while all you Christians get busy DYING. (...and puleeeze hurry up about it, wouldja? Yer holding back intellectual evolution, which is so very critical to our survival as a specie.)

Only the weak cannot come to grips with the reality of mortality.
I've been dead. Twice. I've lost ones dear to me, both in a millisecond as well as a long, drawn out wasting away by illness.
It's not like I'm facing cancer, or I've worked in an ER. But I have had my share of what I consider to be "at least the average amount" of handshakes with mortality.
Still, I fear not my own death.

Only in The Faith shall man fear his finality. For all others, a feeling of having lived a good life by being a good person is stronger, as there was no fear of a diety to be concerned with.

Still, I fear not my own death.

Only in The Faith shall man fear his finality. For all others, a feeling of having lived a good life by being a good person is stronger, as there was no fear of a diety to be concerned with.

OMG! CORRECT!

Only in The Faith shall man fear his finality. For all others, a feeling of having lived a good life by being a good person is stronger, as there was no fear of a diety to be concerned with.

I totally agree. The Christian fixation on the afterlife has always baffled me. Bottom line, nobody knows for sure, so like you, I'm gonna get busy living instead of worrying about dying.

Sounds like a country song.

I totally agree. The Christian fixation on the afterlife has always baffled me. Bottom line, nobody knows for sure, so like you, I'm gonna get busy living instead of worrying about dying.

Sounds like a country song.

Come on guys. Think this through. Maybe if you reach your 70s you'll take more time to consider this. Look all around you. Consider all of the creatures on this planet, the vast emptiness of space, the lifelessness of the other planets. Consider that you can share a concept with another human being. Creation screams "Creator". Order. Design.

Be honest. Is it your understanding of cosmology, astrophysics and microbiology that compels you to come to the conclusion that there is no God, or is it that you do not like the idea you are accountable to a supreme soveriegn God?

By all means read Stephen Hawkings' A Brief History of Time and Brian Greene's The Elegant Universe (OK, so-what, string theory is still largely debateable, big-fudging-deal). See how precise all this stuff is. How did it all come to be so precise? You've got nothing.

Consider all of the creatures on this planet, the vast emptiness of space, the lifelessness of the other planets. Consider that you can share a concept with another human being. Creation screams "Creator". Order. Design.

Be honest. Is it your understanding of cosmology, astrophysics and microbiology that compels you to come to the conclusion that there is no God, or is it that you do not like the idea you are accountable to a supreme soveriegn God?

By all means read Stephen Hawkings' A Brief History of Time and Brian Greene's The Elegant Universe (OK, so-what, string theory is still largely debateable, big-fudging-deal). See how precise all this stuff is. How did it all come to be so precise? You've got nothing.

The "order" in the universe does not prove the existence of an afterlife or any "God" the we have to answer to. It merely creates more questions that science strives to answer. I've said before that the definition of faith is a belief without proof. You can have faith in the heaven and hell that a book, written by humans, describes. You can live your life in selfish anticipation of that. I will live my life as best as I can and try to leave it in better shape than it was when I got here. That doesn't require a belief in any type of god.

Bx7, I believe that it is man's egocentricity that fuels his compulsion to attribute all things unknown to a God.
I would sooner believe that our universe is the microbial petri dish in a teenager's science class lab experiment than believe that a single being is responsible for the creation of life as we know it... -A being who's egocentricity we all apparently share, as he found no fault with himself and created us all in his image and likeness... -Oh, save that whole "temptation" thing. :rolleyes:
The Bible does more to explain why we should all revel in our fallibility than it does to either explain the physics of anyfuckingthing, or help us all to strive to better ourselves for each other's benefit. That's simply because at the time that it was written, life still sucked for 99% of the global population. You were either a slave, a nomad, unemployed, imprisoned, deathly ill, or at the very least, starving. The sheer lack of humanity found throughout the Bible speaks all the volumes I need to hear about it's followers. Slavery was perfectly fine and nobody had enough wealth or knowledge to give a crap about whether or not the Earth was flat. Every plague, every mini ice age, every hardship was attributed to the "merciful" God to which everyone begged of their forgiveness. Anything that could not be explained was attributed to either God's will, or worse, Lucifer. Bible thumpers start their sorted history on this land (the continental US) by BURNING OTHER HUMANS!

Religion is the bane of mankind. It's never been used to keep men honest so much as it's been used to manipulate the weak and the willing into doing very dirty socio-political deeds.

I need no doctrine to prescribe the parameters of humanity to me. Especially a doctrine that tosses a blanket-condemnation over all who do not follow it.
I need the Bible about as much as I need the seatbelt law.

The "order" in the universe does not prove the existence of an afterlife or any "God" the we have to answer to. It merely creates more questions that science strives to answer. I've said before that the definition of faith is a belief without proof. You can have faith in the heaven and hell that a book, written by humans, describes. You can live your life in selfish anticipation of that. I will live my life as best as I can and try to leave it in better shape than it was when I got here. That doesn't require a belief in any type of god.

OK, you got me there. While order does not prove an afterlife, it most certainly proves a creator.(I've jumped ahead becuase I know the answer to the puzzle). Really think about it though. How does order not equate to a creator?

Even if there is a "creator" why live your life waiting to die? The idea, "I am going to live my life so that I will go to a heaven." is a very selfish one. Now if by doing that you make things better for other people, including ones that don't subscribe to your beliefs, than go ahead and do it. It doesn't matter if there is a creator or not. We (humans) will still try to understand the universe in a scientific way. It is in our nature to question things. As Divine Logic said "Anything that could not be explained was attributed to either God's will, or worse, Lucifer." That is a way to make sense out of the unexplainable. As we find proof and explainations for more things, many of the "truths" of ancient time, including parts of religions that are still practiced today, will be made obselete.

The fact is, nobody really knows. They just think they know, which is far more dangerous.

Even if there is a "creator" why live your life waiting to die?Yes, and furthermore, what makes anyone believe they are so special that the creator of the universe could give a rat's ass about what they do?
For God to give a fuck about our individual actions, he would have to behold his creation (our universe) with such awe. It's not like a child's ant farm; the farmer, -in this case, "God", would bear witness to an act of evil by someone like... Oh I dunno, MARK, and look down his nose at him for knowing better than to have perpetrated such an act of ill will. So whatever bad happens to Mark must be a result of the creator's punishment to Mark for his actions.
Times -what...five billion?
Hmmmm...Only one thing can account for this. Man's egocentricity!
Man thinks he's on par with "the creator"!

You see how this all works?
Whether or not there really is a creator, singularly or as an entity, it simply isn't feasible that he / she / it would give a flippin' fuck about us as individuals.

I'm drawn to the memory of a fantastic South Park episode that illustrates this exactly, where "sea monkeys" evolve intellectually, adopt the ideology of creationism, divide and form theologies where the respective Gods are in the images of Stan and Cartman, and eventually annihilate each other.

Come on guys. Think this through. Maybe if you reach your 70s you'll take more time to consider this. Look all around you. Consider all of the creatures on this planet, the vast emptiness of space, the lifelessness of the other planets. Consider that you can share a concept with another human being. Creation screams "Creator". Order. Design.

I'm not disagreeing with that. But to sit there and decide that out of ALL the religions of the past, present and future, that wow, this time, we've got the right one without question is what bothers me.

The sheer fact that you expect me to turn away from my beliefs, Dennis to turn away from his, all the Muslims to turn away from theirs, without you being willing to even question the veracity of yours is what I have a hard time stomaching.

See, I know I could be wrong. I know I could be right. I am also smart enough to know that there is an answer to how all of this happened, how it all came to be, but that every current theory is exactly that: a theory. That includes my beliefs, that includes the Big Bang, that includes Christianity. It's all theory. You and Mark can sit here and try to convince us that the Bible is the end-all, be-all, but that's your FAITH, not FACT. I'm also smart enough to know that there are other theories that are yet to even be dreamed up, and one of those might be the right one.

I've been trying to get that through to Mark for the past three or four years now: No matter how much you believe, doesn't make it true.

Again, maybe when I die, I'll meet God, and it will be the God of the Bible. In which case, hey, I'm wrong. Maybe when I die, there will be nothing at all. Maybe when I die, I'll meet Allah. Nobody knows for sure. You can believe what you believe, but in a universe that is so infinite, the answers, like the questions, are infinite as well.

Excellent post, Kev-dawg.

-and mark, by your own account of what it means to live the "Christian life", you completely fail your faith. There are Christians that are not versed 1/40th as well in the Gospel as you.
Why is that?
-Are they just really, really good at HIDING the fact that they are evil-doers?
WHO are they trying to fool?
God?

You may think that being Christian is the perfect excuse, but it's not.

if the Bible is true, and Christians are convinced of this by supernatural power and physical evidence, then we are fully justified in presenting the gospel boldly and confidently


OK, that's great that you are convinced of it. But, that doesn't make it true, so therefore, you're NOT justified in presenting anything. I can be convinced beyond all doubt that all humans have superpowers and can fly, but that doesn't justify me telling people to go jumping off of buildings, now does it?

Again, the problem that I have with Christianity is the "we're right, you're wrong" attitude. You've tried repeatedly to show us heathens the light. We've refused it. Maybe you should try it on someone else.

I'm drawn to the memory of a fantastic South Park episode that illustrates this exactly, where "sea monkeys" evolve intellectually, adopt the ideology of creationism, divide and form theologies where the respective Gods are in the images of Stan and Cartman, and eventually annihilate each other.

It was Cartman and Tweak by the way.

and Christians are convinced of this by physical evidence

What, exactly, is your physical evidence of the truth of the Bible?

if I knew before 9/11 that you were going to be one of the planes that crashed, wouldn't I warn you? when does spiritual truth become reality?

And, again, you can believe whatever you want. That doesn't make it true.


easily disproven....the Bible is not scientifically disprovable, in fact the evidence strongly supports the Biblical model of sudden creation, followed by a global water catastrophe

I think the universe supports a creation model, but that doesn't mean the Bible is the end-all, be-all of human existence.


actually, it's that the scriptures, as "God breathed", are right....human beings left to their own agenda never get anything right

So then, look at your agenda.

who is the collective "we" you refer to? another common liberal tactic...you don't necessarily speak for anyone here aside from yourself

By "we", I'm including those of us who you have been trying to convince of the "truth" for the past several years.

imo, the evidence for the global flood, from the geologic column to oil deposits to the fossil record (which does not support darwin's philosophy) to Grand Canyon, is ubiquitous...."millions of years" is a construct of atheistic materialists, based on the assumption that radioisochron dating is accurate

btw I'm watching Bill Maher right now and they are bashing this Christian lady

There are many, many different interpretations of that data, and you (conveniently) choose to ignore anything that doesn't go along with aig or the Bible.

You want evidence? The city of Troy has been found, and the accuracy of that is not disputed. Does that make the Iliad and the Odyssey 100% accurate, and make the Greek gods and goddesses any more real?

Oh, and on a side note: I really wish you could behave yourself so I don't have to constantly mod your posts.

...tofy, bx, and myself are convinced the Bible is God's revealed truth, standing the test of time for 3500 years now (and the passage of thousands of years is impressive when you consider most cults disappear within generations, and the scriptures are heavily borrowed from by other systems such as Islam)
Major religious groups
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Christianity: 2.1 billion (Began: ca. 27 AD/CE)
See also the List of Christian denominations by number of members and List of Christian denominations pages and the source page for the numbers below:
Roman Catholic: 1.05 billion
Orthodox/Eastern Christian: 240 million
African Indigenous Sects: 110 million
Pentecostal: 105 million
Reformed/Presbyterian/Congregational/United: 75 million
Anglican/Episcopal: 73 million
Baptist: 70 million
Methodist: 70 million
Lutheran: 64 million
Jehovah's Witnesses: 14.8 million
Latter-Day Saints: 12.5 million
Adventists: 12 million
Apostolic/New Apostolic: 10 million
Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement: 5.4 million
New Thought (Unity, Christian Science, etc.): 1.5 million
Brethren (incl. Plymouth): 1.5 million
Mennonite: 1.25 million
Friends/Quakers: 300,000
Islam: 1.3 billion (Began: ca. 622 AD/CE)
Sunnism: 940 million
Shi'ism: 120 million
Ahmadiyya: 10 million
Druze: 450,000
Secular/irreligious/agnostic/atheist/antitheistic/antireligious: 1.1 billion
Category includes a wide range of beliefs, without specifically adhering to a religion. The category also includes humanism, deism, pantheism, freethought, and Juche. For more information, see the Adherents.com discussion of this category and the note below. **
Hinduism: 900 million (Began: approximately 1500 BC/BCE or 15th century BC/BCE however some aspects of it trace its history to 2600 BC/BCE or 26th century BC/BCE)
Vaishnavism: 580 million
Shaivism: 220 million
Neo-Hindus and Reform Hindus: 22 million
Veerashaivas/Lingayats: 10 million
Chinese folk religion: 394 million
Not a single organized religion, includes elements of Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism and traditional nonscriptural religious observance (also called "Chinese traditional religion").
Buddhism: 376 million (Began: 6th century BC/BCE)
Mahayana: 185 million
Theravada: 124 million
Vajrayana/Tibetan: 20 million
Primal indigenous: 300 million
Not a single organized religion, includes a wide range of primarily Asian traditional or tribal religions, including Shamanism and Paganism.
African traditional and diasporic: 100 million
Not a single organized religion, this includes several traditional African beliefs and philosophies such as those of the Yoruba, Ewe (vodun) and the Bakongo. These three religious traditions (especially that of the Yoruba) have been very influential to the diasporic beliefs of the Americas such as condomble, santeria and voodoo. The religious capital of the Yoruba religion is at Ile Ife.
Sikhism: 23 million (Began: 1500s AD/CE)
Spiritism: 15 million (Began: mid-19th century AD/CE)
Not a single organized religion, includes a variety of beliefs including some forms of Umbanda.
Judaism: 14 million (Began: 13th century BC/BCE) Conservative: 4.5 million
Unaffiliated and Secular: 4.5 million
Reform: 3.75 million
Orthodox: 2 million
Reconstructionist: 150,000
Bahá'ÃÂ* Faith: 7 million (Began: 19th century AD/CE)
Jainism: 4.2 million (Began: 6th century BC/BCE)
Svetambara: 4 million
Sthanakvasi: 750,000
Digambara: 155,000
Shinto: 4 million (Began: 300 BC/BCE)
This number states the number of actual self-identifying practicing primary followers of Shinto; if everyone were included who is considered Shinto by some people due to ethnic or historical categorizations, the number would be considerably higher � as high as 100 million.
Cao Dai: 4 million (Began: 1926 AD/CE)
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million (Began: ca. 6th century BC/BCE)
Parsis: 110,000
Gabars: 20,000
Falun Gong: 2.1 million* (Began: 1992 AD/CE) Not necessarily considered a religion by adherents or outside observers. No membership or rosters, thus the actual figure of practitioners is impossible to confirm.
Tenrikyo: 2 million (Began: 1838 AD/CE)
Neopaganism: 1 million (Began: 20th century AD/CE)
A blanket term for several religions like Wicca, Asatru, Neo-druidism, and many reconstructionist religions
Unitarian Universalism: 800,000 (Began: 1961 AD/CE) Rastafari: 600,000 (Began: early 1930s AD/CE)
Scientology: 500,000 (Began: 1952 AD/CE)



...Maybe you better define what a "cult" is by membership census.

disagree...in terms of GC for example, there is the flood model, and the "Colorado river and x millions of years" model

more secular scientists are recognizing the validity of the flood model, although, of course, they stop well short of acknowledging the global flood of Noah's time

I'll take the millions of years.


I've heard both sides of it, believe me....geology and hydrogeology were part of my coursework...overwhelmingly biased with the long age paradigm stuff

Ok, then how about the blood stuff? You've seen my position, yet you can't wrap your brain around it. I'm definitely more knowledgeable than ANYONE at AIG on it, yet you still claim I'm wrong.

Riddle me this, though, Mark: You're in the hospital. You're bleeding to death. You need a transfusion. Who are you going to trust on your crossmatch, me or the guys at AIG?

which does not substantiate Greek mythology, but it does substantiate Greek civilization...big diff

My point, exactly. The stories in the Bible are just that: Stories.

Neopaganism: 1 million (Began: 20th century AD/CE)
A blanket term for several religions like Wicca, Asatru, Neo-druidism, and many

Hey, I resent that. :)

alright xtains. lets examine big bang and why it blows religion the hell away. Examine the following. I got it from god words himself.

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans
Day 7: Nothing

Genesis in case you didnt know
(i) why do you think they thought water come from space? HINTY: Caveman.
now lets focus on common sense. Earth made first THEN sun and stars moon. AAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA :bigthumb:

before the Flood, it never rained on earth...there was some type of water in the atmosphere that provided a far more temperate world than the world what we have today (a shadow of the beauty the planet once had), a major reason the poles were once hospitable for various kinds of life and were not ice covered until after the Flood

when you know the Bible, you know the true history of the earth....not the fairy tale atheist version

Yeah, because the poof, built in 7 days thing is just so much more realistic. Again, you can't prove any of it.

professing to be wise, they became fools....

and the oft-parroted "caveman" stuff (insinuating all ancient people were stupid) displays your ongoing ignorance

Who do you know/respect that says "oft-parroted"? You're plagiarizing that from someone, who is it?

Prove this wrong.

In the beginning there was only one water and the water animals that lived in it.

Then a woman fell from a torn place in the sky. She was a divine woman, full of power. Two loons flying over the water saw her falling. They flew under her, close together, making a pillow for her to sit on.

The loons held her up and cried for help. They could be heard for a long way as they called for other animals to come.

The snapping turtle called all the other animals to aid in saving the divine woman's life.

The animals decided the woman needed earth to live on.

Turtle said, "Dive down in the water and bring up some earth."

So they did that, those animals. A beaver went down. A muskrat went down. Others stayed down too long, and they died.

Each time, Turtle looked inside their mouths when they came up, but there was no earth to be found.

Toad went under the water. He stayed too long, and he nearly died. But when Turtle looked inside Toad's mouth, he found a little earth. The woman took it and put it all around on Turtle's shell. That was the start of the earth.

Dry land grew until it formed a country, then another country, and all the earth.. To this day, Turtle holds up the earth.

Time passed, and the divine woman had twin boys. They were opposites, her sons. One was good, and one was bad. One was born as children are usually born, in a normal way. But the other one broke out of his mother's side, and she died.

When the divine woman was buried, all of the plants needed for life on earth sprang from the ground above her. From her head came the pumpkin vine. Maize came from her chest. Pole beans grew from her legs.

The divine woman's sons grew up. The evil one was Tawis-karong. The good one was Tijus-kaha. They were to prepare the earth so that humans could live on it. But they found they could not live together. And so they separated, with each one taking his own portion of the earth to prepare.

The bad brother, Tawis-karong, made monstrous animals, fierce and terrifying. He made wolves and bears, and snakes of giant size. He made mosquitoes huge, the size of wild turkeys. And he made an enormous toad. It drank up the fresh water that was on the earth. All of it.

The good brother, Tijus-kaha, made proper animals that were of use to human beings. He made the dove, and the mockingbird, and the partridge. And one day, the partridge flew toward the land of Tawis-karong.

"Why do you go there?" Tijus-kaha asked the partridge.

"I go because there is no water. And I hear there is some in your brother's land," said the partridge.

Tijus-kaha didn't believe the bird. So he followed, and finally he came to his evil brother's land. He saw all of the outlandish, giant animals his brother had made. Tijus-kaha didn't beat them down.

And then he saw the giant toad. He cut it open. Out came the earth's fresh water. Tijus-kaha didn't kill any [more] of his brother's creations. But he made them smaller, of normal size so that human beings could be leaders over them.

His mother's spirit came to Tijus-kaha in a dream. She warned him about his evil brother. And sure enough, one day, the two brothers had to come face to face. They decided they could not share the earth. They would have a duel to see who would be master of the world.

Each had to overcome the other with a single weapon. Tijus-kaha, the good, could only be killed if beaten to death with a bag full of corn or beans. The evil brother could be killed only by using the horn of a deer or other wild animal. then the brothers fixed the fighting ground where the battle would begin.

The first turn went to the evil brother, Tawis-karong. He pounded his brother with a bag of beans. He beat him until Tijus-kaha was nearly dead. But not quite. He got his strength back, and he chased Tawis-karong. Now it was his turn.

He beat his evil brother with a deer horn. Finally, Tijus-kaha took his brother's life away. But still the evil brother wasn't completely destroyed. "I have gone to the far west," he said. "All the races of men will follow me to the west when they die."

Day 1 is Light...the earth was void (do you know what that means?) :rolleyes:

before the Flood, it never rained on earth...there was some type of water in the atmosphere that provided a far more temperate world than the world what we have today (a shadow of the beauty the planet once had), a major reason the poles were once hospitable for various kinds of life and were not ice covered until after the Flood

when you know the Bible, you know the true history of the earth....not the fairy tale atheist version

professing to be wise, they became fools....

and the oft-parroted "caveman" stuff (insinuating all ancient people were stupid) displays your ongoing ignorance


come on yzf! never rained before the flood? Arent you listening to what you wrote? Jesuschrist, xtains! why does yzf statement actually makes sense to you? I know you believe this stuff. You have to. otherwise heaven will disappear out of your minds.

LOOK! It is staring directly in your eyes. READ YZF STATEMENT! cant you see the blaring reality of how false your doctorine is? now you know why atheists shake their heads when you guys believe in this crap.

Edit: You xtains believe in fantasies a lot more than your counterparts. This link is you xtains. http://www.wowsouthpark.com/

Mark I just can't believe how warped you are.

kindly refrain from vulgarity, asshole

were you there? who are YOU to say?

I validated this post rather than deleting it, so that you'll know exactly why you got your one day ban. I've told you before to knock this stuff off.

kindly refrain from vulgarity, asshole

were you there? who are YOU to say?

wow. my jesuschrist offended you. doubt it. you are angry because i made you look like dodobird.

I have a real xtain in my classroom. Ken is his real name. Black dude. but you know he is xtain by his looks, and how he looks at other people. Not like another type of xtain that I know, who smiles a mile wide 24/7.

I would never disrespect the smiling one. dont know why. But ken i would. Ken thinks we are all below him. I study him and wonder. I see him open bibles to study during breaks. I poked and proded and found he gets frustrated when i assign a women to lead his team. He is like a time bomb, yelling at the wispering kids in the back. he is such a blister to other people and i would love to fail him so I can screw with him another semester.

gosh i am off subject.

No I wasnt there. nor do I want to be there. but i know I am right when I say it rained before the flood. I dont believe in cavemen is all. They just dont know better...no matter how smart you claim they are.

You're a teacher? Poor kids...

I am into triangles. I teach trig. community college. yup i call them kids when they dont give a shit of what is taught.

Kevin,

Banning Mark for a day because of that post is arguably wrong by itself. But doing it after only warning ME, via PM, about using Mark's last name instead of banning me for the day DEFINITELY makes it wrong.

You are too emotionally wrapped up to be a fair moderator here.

czarofar, you're why community college sucks.

kindly refrain from vulgarity, asshole

were you there? who are YOU to say?


somehow I am thinking that, no matter the source Marky claims to quote as "proof", that source was not there during the flood times either..........

Kevin,

Banning Mark for a day because of that post is arguably wrong by itself. But doing it after only warning ME, via PM, about using Mark's last name instead of banning me for the day DEFINITELY makes it wrong.

You are too emotionally wrapped up to be a fair moderator here.

czarofar, you're why community college sucks.
hi DL,
it gets out of control regarding people's habits. Some people require simple things to be done with them to help break them habits that require your thumb on em. Reconize it isnt an attack on mark himself...just his habit.

I agree with you on cc sux. i have bad habits too. i dont get banned for a day, thou. I get fired. So I better knock it off. (Do I have to? the guy's a dick. really) You reminded me on my experiences as a learner. Boy, the stories I hold.

My problem with Mark being short-term banned for his post above is that the banning is not congruent* with those of the rest of the members who are banned for such infractions. (IE, they don't get banned.)

My having said "you're the reason Community college sucks" has not a thing to do with that student or your relationship with him.
It has to do with your utterly atrocious writing skills and grammar.

[*-I thought you might like that. It's my "word of the day". ;)]

...and by no means do I like Mark enough to wanna stick up for him. My gesture which might be misconstrued as an act of such is actually quite selfish at it's core...
-Mark insists he is mistreated here for being a Christian when in reality, his treatment is completely a result of what an asshole he is towards everyone.
But the second he actually is treated unfairly, he is empowered with some truth in his defense.
Up until that instance, the only truth he has to support himself is in his fat, roided head.

it's pretty sad when the 3500 year history of Biblical authority is compared to fairy tales, but that is the nature of frivolous minds in 2006

So you can't prove it wrong? And now you are calling someone else's religious history a fairy tale. The Huron would take offense to that and probably call the bible a fairy tale. What I asked was for proof. If you can disprove that story without using "biblical science" I will be suprised.

My having said "you're the reason Community college sucks" has not a thing to do with that student or your relationship with him.
It has to do with your utterly atrocious writing skills and grammar.

Very true. I squeeked by in english writting. not my forte'. MS Word was my saviour. I dont have that at home.

I apologize for my laziness in writtings. I just hope I write clear enough to get some message through.

You don't have MS Word?

lol yup. i know i can download crap to make it so.
I have 98. I need xp.
ack..squeaked not squeeked. see? cant catch it without proofreading or ms wd.

I just hope I write clear enough to get some message through.

Lol "message". Good one!

Kevin,

Banning Mark for a day because of that post is arguably wrong by itself. But doing it after only warning ME, via PM, about using Mark's last name instead of banning me for the day DEFINITELY makes it wrong.

You are too emotionally wrapped up to be a fair moderator here.

czarofar, you're why community college sucks.


Nope, I warned you because you've been behaving lately, and that's the only infraction you've had in the past 6 weeks or so.

Mark got a one day ban because he's on moderated status, and chose to behave poorly. I've also deleted about 7 of his posts that were inappropriate for the sections they were posted in before any of you have seen them.

And, again, if you have an issue with the way something is being moderated, the rules of this section state to PM me about it, not clutter up a thread.

My problem with Mark being short-term banned for his post above is that the banning is not congruent* with those of the rest of the members who are banned for such infractions. (IE, they don't get banned.)



It is absolutely congruent, because you guys are all on different points on the same scale.

The more shit you pull, the more severe the punishment is, just like with my kids. I told you "No", Dennis. Do it again, and you're getting "Time Out". Mark had already been told "No", so he went straight to "Time Out". Easy enough?

Kevin you alone play the most important role in Mark's martyrdom on this forum.

And if you talk down to me again, or even make a remote comparison between moderating anything I write and disciplining your children, you won't have to ban me.

whatever....the rules are flexible, based on the person enforcing them

someone titles a thread "God doesn't give a f#$# about you"...no problem there apparently (although clearly inappropriate)....crzsofar or whatever his name is uses all kinds of profane language which I and other Christians would certainly find offensive...hey, that's fine, too

I was going to change the title of that thread, but no one complained. As far as you complaining about anyone else's language, hello pot, this is the kettle, you're black.

You guys can't have it both ways. You want this section unmoderated, then it's going to be completely unmoderated. You want rules, then those rules are going to be enforced. I took Mark off of being moderated for a week or two, because he was going by the rules, and then (like every other time), he slowly got worse and worse. Now he's back to being moderated.

I personally don't care what's said in here. It's an internet forum, it's not real life. I'll gladly do away with the rules of this section and let you guys have a free for all, that way I'm not wasting time everyday scanning for anything somebody might be offended by.

Kevin you alone play the most important role in Mark's martyrdom on this forum.

And if you talk down to me again, or even make a remote comparison between moderating anything I write and disciplining your children, you won't have to ban me.

I knew you would be pissed the second I wrote that, but it was the easiest way for me to explain why he got a one day ban and you didn't. Was I comparing you to my children? No. Was I using my children as an example? Yes.

of course it's easily proven wrong, your legend claims the earth rides on a turtle,

Then prove it wrong, don't just say it can be proven wrong. I say "I want scientific facts becasue I believe the earth does ride on the back of a turtle." And I said no "biblical science" Using another fable to prove my fable wrong is not science.

of course it's easily proven wrong, your legend claims the earth rides on a turtle, and the Quran says it rides on an elephant...

and your fable has the earth on pillers, with corners, and the sky is a tent.



there are myriads of such fables

yours amongst them.




the Job states that God "hangs the earth on nothing"....quite an insightful and accurate statement from someone who lived ~2000 years before Christ

not quite up there with the greeks measuring the diameter of the earth with sticks and string and some nonbiblical geometry.




nothing in the Bible is scientifically discounted, in terms of creation or the flood event....the miracles are clearly supernatural and outside the realm of the human practice of "science"

wrong, once an event OCCURS it becomes a part of reality and is no longer supernatural.

for an event to remain supernatural it would have to have NO CAUSE whatsoever.

with your creation and flood you achieve supernatural by , in addition to having no cause, having no effect.

a thing with no cause and no effect is absolutely supernatural, so god MUST have done it.

science looks at effects - reality - and tries to find the causes.

you hate science BECAUSE science assumes every effect has a cause, and consistantly finds one, destroying your superstitious myths at every turn.


science doesn't trump God anyway, and has no authority over scripture

good thing god had job put that hook in the top of the world, otherwise we would have fallen down when science knocked the pillers out from underneath it.

and your fable has the earth on pillers, with corners, and the sky is a tent.

In metaphor. It says "Like a tent."

----------------

Scientific Accuracies of the Bible

Many people doubt the Bible for various reasons. One of them is that the Bible is not accurate scientifically. But this just isn't so. The Bible is not a book about science, but when it does speak scientifically, it is accurate. In fact, it was far ahead of any other writing of its time. Please consider the following.

1. The Shape of the Earth
1. "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in" (Isaiah 40:22, NIV).
1. This may or may not be construed to support the spherical shape of the earth. The horizon is a circle and a circle is flat.
2. The Earth is suspended in nothing
1. "He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job. 26:7, NIV).
1. This is particularly interesting considering that the cosmology of other cultures at that time did not have the earth suspended in nothing, but rather upon pillars, or people, or animals.
3. The Stars are Innumerable
1. "He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars -- if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be" (Gen. 15:5, NIV).
4. The Existence of Valleys in the Seas
1. "The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of breath from his nostrils" (2 Sam. 22:16, NIV).
5. The Existence of Springs and Fountains in the Seas
1. "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month -- on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened" (Genesis 7:11, NIV). See also Gen. 8:2; Prov. 8:28.
6. The Existence of Water Paths (Ocean Currents) in the Seas
1. "O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!...When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,...You made him [man] ruler over the works of your hands; you put everything under his feet...the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas" (Psalm 8:1,3,6,8, NIV).
7. The Hydrologic Cycle
1. "He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight" (Job. 26:8, NIV).
2. "He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind" (Job. 36:27-28, NIV)
3. "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7, NIV).
8. The Concept of Entropy
1. "In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded" (Psalm 102:22-26, NIV).
9. The Nature of Health, Sanitation, and Sickness
1. The listing for this section is too large for this page. But the scriptural references are Leviticus 12-14.

- CARM.ORG

In metaphor. It says "Like a tent."

NIV).

quoting from the New Inerrent Version, the Current Corrected version of the Inerrent Unchanging Word of God.

just like the J Ws corrected their bible to fix inaccuracies in their translation the NIVersion has been corrected to remove those embarassing inaccuracies that previous versions contained due to the ignorance of pre scientific authors {translators}.

it is like looking at clouds, if a shape is suggested you can see it if you look hard enough, science gives you the shape and you see it in the [enhanced] version.