discuss

Where's the poll?

Funny you should ask.

My explaination:

There was a poll which asked the question: Does Religion Breeds??? and then it listed various options such as: Racism, Hatred, Separation, Ignorance, Wars, Jealousy, JudgeMetal =My God Is Better Then Your God, Love, Other (explain). I selected Other (explain) and then I clicked vote.

Poll is working now.

Looks like a tight race between other and ignorance. Who voted others?:rolleyes:

You ever had a pizza pie?

Fresh off the press...
Rwanda (AP) -- Two earthquakes struck hours apart in Rwanda and neighboring Congo on Sunday, killing at least 39 people and injuring hundreds of others, officials said. Some of the victims died when the church they were attending collapsed.

Why sure. I love a pizza. Why do you ask?

Why sure. I love a pizza.

I mean an actual pizza pie, like with dough on the top and on the bottom and sauce and cheese in the middle.

Why do you ask?

I selected Other.

The question that arises, at least in my mind, is whether or not the options listed above would come to be without the existance of religion. If so, then one must ask themselves if in fact religion is the cause of war, hate, seperation, jealousy, love and racism. From my perspective, these articles are caused by social issues. Take a person who is racist against black people. Is there something that is inherently wrong with an entire race or is there something wrong with this person's perspective? The same question can be asked for all of the above. Is religion the real issue, or is it merely a vessel for deeper, more complex social issues at heart?

As for ignorance... there are religions that I know little about, hence I am ignorant to them. There are probably religions that I am not even aware exist, which makes me even more ignorant to them (although it could be argued that my concession to their possible existance somewhat lessens my ignorance). Ignorance is a good answer in the same sense that pizza pies breed ignorance, so take it as you will.

I voted Other because a topic like religion breeds polls like this very one, and since "polls" was not given as an option, I was forced to select other.

I mean an actual pizza pie, like with dough on the top and on the bottom and sauce and cheese in the middle.

Er....yeah I like a calzone....?? Was I suppose to say calzone?

Er....yeah I like a calzone....?? Was I suppose to say calzone?

thank you for proving my point

that yer ignorant?:scratch:

:banghead:

And here I thought that I used an example that even you could understand... oh well, I'm sure someone else will get it.

:jerkit:
only in your world, apples can be compared with oranges

Wouldn't a religion of Allah teach their members that Allah is better than Jesus? Isn't that a judgemental mentality?

I voted "other", for reasons that pretty much mirror Ark2's views, no need to retype.

I think my issue is what religion vs. faith really brings to the table. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a personal faith, growing spiritually, or being grounded by a "higher power". Faith gets a lot of people through the day. I take issue with religious fundamentalists who, for their own personal/religious reasons, force their "devine" views/scripture/dogma down your throat.

The "Live by the Book, or die by the Sword" mentality is for the birds. It's what allows people to justify dragging gays behind trucks, flying planes into buildings, and marching people into death camps. Not to jump on the YZF-hate train or anything, but he, amongst others, are really nothing more than wolves in sheeps clothing. Pontificating on the love of the Lord, which if you don't agree with their viewpoint, verbal lashings/threats/name calling and total disregard for the pillars of their said religion ensue. It certainly doesn't make you a good ambassador and more than anything; you look like a huge hypocrite. Often, you're met with harsh rebuke for challenging their stance on any issue re: religion.

That being said, I consider myself a Christian with a firm base in logic, reason, and 'reality'. I have a faith, but do I attend church every Sunday? Nope. I can't stomach the ladies in large hats, the gossip, guilt of tithing, their worries of what I drive/own, and most of all: the attitude of being above "sinners". I'm sure the attacks will roll in on that, which will only further my point. So thanks in advance.

Arch,
I liked what you wrote and I suppose I was right where you are standing at one time, regarding any kind of christain faith or ideas of such.

If we begin to choose whether there is a God or not, consider your source. Sounds like to me you have taken human error into consideration when books of events were written regarding God. Thus, God didn't write the good books and is left to every individual to their own interpretations. That is, if God is perfect.

Back to considering your source, jesus, the dead guy you serve, left specific instructions for you to abide in, where the hardest one is to give up your possessions and follow him.

That, my friend, is using faith. Not the watered down version you offered.

Wow. Thank you Mark. I could rebut, but you've already proven my point! I appreciate how easy you make it for me and everybody else. With that said, here's a tip:

Get a degree in Theology and maybe History. It would serve you well when you interpret the Bible and apply it to your flawed logic. Have the best day ever, my "Christian" brother...lol.

truth be told, the 3500 year history of the sccuracy and veracity of the scriptures is unchalelnged by ANY human document...the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah, for example, now 2300 years old, reads essentially word-for-word with modern English translations...your argument, once again, is a matter of opinion, but has no basis in fact never mentioned translations, I meant the original authors.



common mis-reading of the Rich Young Ruler, who wanted to perfect by his works, in his OWN righteousness...got it?

(KJV)Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Sounds exactly how I understand it. I'm ready to read your explaination.

Arch,
I liked what you wrote and I suppose I was right where you are standing at one time, regarding any kind of christain faith or ideas of such.

If we begin to choose whether there is a God or not, consider your source. Sounds like to me you have taken human error into consideration when books of events were written regarding God. Thus, God didn't write the good books and is left to every individual to their own interpretations. That is, if God is perfect.

Back to considering your source, jesus, the dead guy you serve, left specific instructions for you to abide in, where the hardest one is to give up your possessions and follow him.

That, my friend, is using faith. Not the watered down version you offered.


No problem. I don't think I've addressed/or stated anything about my specific faith, though. My faith is mine alone and to each their own. I struggle within my life, like any "human" does. If anybody was to say otherwise, they'd be lying to themselves. Everybody picks and chooses what they follow from the Bible, unless you've tempted the serpent lately, in a most literal way. Again, interpretation.

I must be doing something right, I've been blessed thus far. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh...

the only "flawed logic" here is coming through your hot air

my logic is rock solid and scripturally based, as always

You're right, continue your path oh righteous one! You're the Lords heavy hand, showing ignorant saps like me the "light", right? See my first post. Aggressive rebuke at every turn. I don't need to quote scripture, it's a book. You know how to read, it's no mystery. As always, you keep up that good work Christian, you're winning hearts and minds abound with your attitude and example.

LOL, you're right. You don't pick and choose... kinda like you sitting on a chatroom acting the part of a Christian, yet you spout profanity and act like a total zealot. Tell me Mark, why were you asked to leave your Church's study group? Because you just "fall short" of his glory, right? Why have you threatened multiple members on 7club? Because you "fall short" and can't help the pull of the flesh? Come on Mark, you cast stones soooooo quickly don't you? We live in the 21st Century, so mirrors are abound. Here's a tip: go look in one. Who are you fooling?

like I said, this guy wanted to be perfect by his own righteousness, he didn't want to admit he needed a Savior...he walked away unchanged (and unsaved)

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

He saith unto him, Which?

Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Jesus has trouble counting to ten?


The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

...and then it went on and on about a vineyard blah blah blah...

Sounds to me that the rich man wanted to be perfect to god and was disappointed of Jesus' response. Obviously jesus coulnd't convince people during them times that he was God.

I understand.
The mans query to me was asking if there was anything more than performing the ten commandments to meet gods wishes. Obvious what jesus pointed out, "hey, there are people in your world that could use your money so they may live better. If yopu truely seek to doing good, how about giving gods children your money?"

Do you, YZF-follower of Gods law, seek to do good? And if Jesus asked you to sell your belongings and donate to His church, are you willing?

LOL, you're right. You don't pick and choose... kinda like you sitting on a chatroom acting the part of a Christian, yet you spout profanity and act like a total zealot. Tell me Mark, why were you asked to leave your Church's study group? Because you just "fall short" of his glory, right? Why have you threatened multiple members on 7club? Because you "fall short" and can't help the pull of the flesh? Come on Mark, you cast stones soooooo quickly don't you? We live in the 21st Century, so mirrors are abound. Here's a tip: go look in one. Who are you fooling?

What, no canned response? I'm dissappointed in you, I was hoping for more. I think you're problem is you take things personal, rather than except that you can't be right all the time. Casting judgement on others. Sure I swear, so do you; the difference my friend is that I don't try to hold people accountable and I leave it to God.

So jesus exposes the mans heart as too prideful to enter Gods kingdom. Surely the man didnt have to give up his possessions to serve god. Not only to perform good things toward god and people, but importantly to surrender himself to god with all of his heart.

Well, no need to test if jesus knows all. Your statement failed. Sorry bro :)

Jesus was testing him, to see what his true priorities were...he failed the test

If i didnt say anything, your statement suggested that Jesus wasnt sure.

it's like God calling out to Adam in the Garden "where are you?" of course God knew where he was, it was a gentle way to initiate the conversation and get him to admit his wrong-doing, actually it was very gracious

Definately. The conversation has to be on 'human' terms, in regards to flow. Saying "HAH! GOTCHA!", when misdeeds have not be addressed could be weird. Jesus, knowing the outcome, still provides the 'cycle' of conversation>event>outcome.

Well, still its a theory for jesus never said he was testing the man. 'We' said that. Tough love for the rich guy whom was sent away. So I have a theory as well and equaly holds true...Jesus embellishing his power he has over his followers, enjoyed the moment to teach ONLY to his men. Not the rich guy.

Knowing the outcome, he knew it was a "sure" thing per say, if I'm following you. The rich guy was a teaching tool, rather than a chance of salvation/real test of faith, correct?

Sure if our intent was to teach people in the future on how to get to heaven. Sending one soul away to feed millions of His message maybe a great stratagy as a human standpoint. But if God himself has said to send Jesus to teach us the good message, well the poor guy sent away never heard what jesus said to his followers. THAT was the key message for the rich mans ear. Even His folowers started to protest jesus after the rich mans departure, but jesus held at bay with the unbheard message to the rich guy. A soul lost for many to serve. Good for us, bad for our rich friend.

Yeah, a raw deal for the rich fellow.

That same rich guy never heard of Luke and yet was ready to learn from jesus.
Jesus was justaguy.

you come up with some truly wacky/warped viewpoints on scripture, kind of like honegod

You have to admire honegod's intelligence. He helped me discover todays world view of the Bible is folly when comparing events in the Bible as it happened.

For example, jesus and the rich guy. The lesson to us is understood but at that time, the lesson failed to the rich guy who undoubtably needed more clarification. hence, jesus equals failed teaching.

no, I don't...the guy was hopelessly warped...it was more like eccentric (and worthless) musings

lol I know that is how you feel. And i'm not too far from how you view me also. I wish you were much grounded. Sometimes you surprised me and delivered and I value that tiny segment of your time here more than your normal hot air...

was that because they were smart? they figured it out? or because Christ was authoritative? no, it's because God had called them
yet God didnt call another man and scores more through out gods walk on earth.

Jesus was just a guy.

Wrong sir. You are incorrect. You couldn't be more incorrect with this statement. In fact, your statement makes you a liar. How so? Every time you acknowledge the date, whether by reading it or writing it, you acknowledge that Jesus was no mere man. If you haven't figured this out then why do we say 2008. 2008 years from what?

Wrong sir. You are incorrect. You couldn't be more incorrect with this statement. In fact, your statement makes you a liar. How so? Every time you acknowledge the date, whether by reading it or writing it, you acknowledge that Jesus was no mere man. If you haven't figured this out then why do we say 2008. 2008 years from what?

shhhhh easy. Before you burn me at the stake, let me explain.
Depends how you take it out of context. Is jesus god? I said nawwww...hes just a guy. I say the authors are lying. But the ideas there-in are truths. We should live by many jesus examples. But I can make an argument that any human can give false reports, exaggerate claims, and spook or mislead to thier advantage. No God like powers are needed. Just a pen and paper and perhaps a monk trying to calculate when Easter began.

Wrong sir. You are incorrect. You couldn't be more incorrect with this statement. In fact, your statement makes you a liar. How so? Every time you acknowledge the date, whether by reading it or writing it, you acknowledge that Jesus was no mere man. If you haven't figured this out then why do we say 2008. 2008 years from what?

Thats the weakest argument for Jesus I have ever heard.

Do you think that the atheists that don't worship even think that? There is no meaning in the date to them. They know what it means and they don't believe.

Pure stupidity. Where did you hear that, Sunday school? Next think you're going to talk about is a pussy troll right?

that kind of response is way out of line...it's a weak argument, but he didn't deserve that


It's not a weak argument. It's an extremeney huge argument. It's the freaking date! Accepted standard world wide.

It's doesn't prove the deity of Christ but for certain it is evidence that he wasn't "just a guy".

Good enough evidence. Jesus was more than just a guy. He was a leader and founder of equality. However, dispite christain beliefs, jesus was not a god but just a guy like you and me.

Sure...famous quote...'love your brothers as you do onto yourself'. Sounds like equality to me.
Darkness is understood. Its called 'lack of light'. As far as a cartoon fanasy world of dramatized war between good and evil that involves two powerful forces that we cant see and never will, well that requires some goooood writing from clever authors. hmmmm looks like we have some collected in a Bible. The Superman serie was better. Welllll I was fond of Green Latern myself. WOOOOTYYYYYAAAAAAXXX!

Christ was and is the full revelation of God

And all history is about Him. Amen to that.