Any of you that know my history know that I can be a downright asshole. I've said things to people that really hurt them and/or pissed them off, for nothing but entertainment. I don't tolerate stupidity at all, but other than that... overall, I'm pretty nice. I certainly understand some of you having the impression that I'm completely heartless. Also, I understand there's trolls on here such as myself, that will post back horrible shit about this just to be an ass, and possibly some (never my motivation), to seem "cool" or impress someone. If I suspected violence towards a child, woman, or anyone helpless and undeserving, even if the person was somehow considered an "enemy" to me... I would do whatever I could, with whatever I had, to stop it... no question. Someone sent me the following video, and it really touched me... I realize that this is more of an automotive place, and I'm probably not the person with the most credibility to be "soft" which is what the prelude to the link is for. It's really horrofic that these things happen everyday...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWow42TCwzg

overall, I'm pretty nice.



:boink: :wackit:

You threw a freaking bottle of piss at a homeless man. Don't you start with the "violence towards anyone helpless and undeserving" shit. :rofl:

I just don't understand how people can do things like that to children. As far as I'm concerned 25.5 years is like a slap in the face for her father. The fucking bastard that did that should be put to death.....a long, slow, horribly painful death. And for her mother to allow this to happen......I just have no words for that. I hope it eats her alive....I truely do. I'm also with you on stopping things like this from happening at whatever the cost. I only wish more people could do the same......

You threw a freaking bottle of piss at a homeless man. Don't you start with the "violence towards anyone helpless and undeserving" shit. :rofl:

Whoa,

That's not as bad as a urine pie, but still...

Any of you that know my history know that I can be a downright asshole.


but that's why we love you :peace:


edit: just got done watching the vid. JESUS CHRIST! THAT'S FUCK'N HORRIBLE...

You threw a freaking bottle of piss at a homeless man. Don't you start with the "violence towards anyone helpless and undeserving" shit. :rofl:
I've never told you I threw a bottle of piss at anyone... because I haven't. I did tell you I saw someone do it, and I've told you numerous times since then that I didn't do it when you've brought up your twisted version. I've never thrown anything at homeless people. Have I beeped the horn to wake them if up they're passed out drunk on the sidewalks? Yep. Have I silly-stringed people on sidewalks/parking lots (which doesn't hurt them or their clothes just makes them say "OH SHIT!!! ASSHOLE!!").... yep. I've never had the intention to hurt people doing shit... You really don't know me.

I just don't understand how people can do things like that to children. As far as I'm concerned 25.5 years is like a slap in the face for her father. The fucking bastard that did that should be put to death.....a long, slow, horribly painful death. And for her mother to allow this to happen......I just have no words for that. I hope it eats her alive....I truely do. I'm also with you on stopping things like this from happening at whatever the cost. I only wish more people could do the same......
I respect her father for doing things like the video instead of screaming "KILL THE BASTARD". Personally, I don't believe in the death penalty nor do I buy into "an eye for an eye." The point of prison is to protect society from individuals and provide rehab so that they can eventually become a part of society moreso than it is to punish.

The point of prison is to protect society from individuals and provide rehab so that they can eventually become a part of society moreso than it is to punish.

Interestingly, prision is probably the worst method of rehabilitation available.

Do you honestly think that 90% of the people in prison a being rehabilitated? All prisons are today are criminal factorys. Going to jail does not in the slightest bit rehabilitate people. They are treated like shit (some deservedly) and after you are treated that way for a long period of time people tend to give up and accept that they will fuck up therefore justifing the bad shit they do. Now as far as the death penalty.....it's hard to say because it is to easy to abuse. Especially seeing as how our legal system is far from perfect. However, for the people that do really fucked up stuff like raping kids, beating old people to death, etc., as far as I'm concerned they do not deserve to live. If you want to protect society from people like that, you eliminate them and you never have to worry about them again because people like that will NEVER change. Something is fundamentally wrong with them and no matter how much time they spend in counseling or whatever will ever change them, period, end of story. People are to eager to give second chances and I honestly believe that is why we see so many super fucked up things these days. In my opinion, if you kick a helpless child hard enough in the stomach to kill her, you have foregone your right to live. Is this an "eye for an eye" mentality? Perhaps, but I prefer to think of it more like taking the weeds out of the garden so the useful plants can thrive.

Shawshank Redemption nigga.

Do you honestly think that 90% of the people in prison a being rehabilitated? All prisons are today are criminal factorys. Going to jail does not in the slightest bit rehabilitate people. They are treated like shit (some deservedly) and after you are treated that way for a long period of time people tend to give up and accept that they will fuck up therefore justifing the bad shit they do. Now as far as the death penalty.....it's hard to say because it is to easy to abuse. Especially seeing as how our legal system is far from perfect. However, for the people that do really fucked up stuff like raping kids, beating old people to death, etc., as far as I'm concerned they do not deserve to live. If you want to protect society from people like that, you eliminate them and you never have to worry about them again because people like that will NEVER change. Something is fundamentally wrong with them and no matter how much time they spend in counseling or whatever will ever change them, period, end of story. People are to eager to give second chances and I honestly believe that is why we see so many super fucked up things these days. In my opinion, if you kick a helpless child hard enough in the stomach to kill her, you have foregone your right to live. Is this an "eye for an eye" mentality? Perhaps, but I prefer to think of it more like taking the weeds out of the garden so the useful plants can thrive.

I agree with you up until you start talking about the death penalty. Sure, there are those who have committed terrible crimes that are beyond rehabilitation. Lock them up and throw away the key. Killing them serves only to satisfy your anger. By pushing for their death, you allow them to imprint their preversions towards pain and suffering unto you. Why give them that power?

I agree with you up until you start talking about the death penalty. Sure, there are those who have committed terrible crimes that are beyond rehabilitation. Lock them up and throw away the key. Killing them serves only to satisfy your anger. By pushing for their death, you allow them to imprint their preversions towards pain and suffering unto you. Why give them that power?
Plus Mfin 1... good post.

I agree with you up until you start talking about the death penalty. Sure, there are those who have committed terrible crimes that are beyond rehabilitation. Lock them up and throw away the key. Killing them serves only to satisfy your anger. By pushing for their death, you allow them to imprint their preversions towards pain and suffering unto you. Why give them that power?
I don't believe that I am giving them any power at all. My beliefs on this matter are not baised in anger as you have assumed. I see absolutly no need in spending time, money, and resources to house these types of people. It's a waste. They have (by their actions) shown that their regard for life and correct social behavior does not exist and in my opinion they don't deserve the right to live. No anger at all. Do I like the things they do? Hell no, but I'm also not one to just randomly sentence someone to death. As I have stated before if you show this kind of blatant disregard for human life than you have foregone your right to live. To what end does locking them up for the rest of their lives accomplish except for the aforementioned waste of resources? Some might argue that he would have a lifetime to suffer through the decisions he made to which my reply would be this....If someone commits these acts knowing full well that they are wrong what makes you think that the will feel regret, sorrow, or remorse? In some cases, such as acts of passion, then yes, I could see someone feeling these things, but that's not the people I'm talking about. It's the people that commit the really heinous crimes that I'm refering to. As far as giving them power that's just bullshit. You only give them that power if you allow them to fill your heart with hate and pain and that's not where I'm comming from on this issue. Please refer to my "weeds in the garden" analogy. Eliminating people like this from the gene pool can only better it for future generations. When people start to see that there will be major consequences to their actions instead of getting to sit in jail getting a free education (wheither it be academic or criminal), reading books, exercising in the yard, watching tv, etc., then at least some of them might reconsider some of the decisions that they make. Of course, there will always be the ones that are broken to begin with and no consequence will ever change their mind, hence the need for elimination.

I don't believe that I am giving them any power at all. My beliefs on this matter are not baised in anger as you have assumed.

Right, you don't speak with anger when you say this:

The fucking bastard that did that should be put to death.....a long, slow, horribly painful death.

Give me a break.

I see absolutly no need in spending time, money, and resources to house these types of people. It's a waste.

You do of course realize that it costs more money to put someone to death then it does to simply keep them locked up, right?

They have (by their actions) shown that their regard for life and correct social behavior does not exist and in my opinion they don't deserve the right to live.

That mirrors their view as well. The people that they kill, for whatever reason don't deserve to live in their eyes. What makes your postion any better?

Do I like the things they do? Hell no, but I'm also not one to just randomly sentence someone to death.

No one is saying that you do, so don't bring it up to sound more apathetic.

As I have stated before if you show this kind of blatant disregard for human life than you have foregone your right to live.

Yes, you've stated this, I know. You have however omitted a reason for it.

To what end does locking them up for the rest of their lives accomplish except for the aforementioned waste of resources?

Ummm... it keeps them from committing any further crimes. Thought that was pretty simple.

Some might argue that he would have a lifetime to suffer through the decisions he made to which my reply would be this....If someone commits these acts knowing full well that they are wrong what makes you think that the will feel regret, sorrow, or remorse?

I never said that they would feel sorrow or remorse for their crimes. We are talking about people that are beyond rehabilitation so why would this be an issue?

In some cases, such as acts of passion, then yes, I could see someone feeling these things, but that's not the people I'm talking about.

Neither am I.

As far as giving them power that's just bullshit. You only give them that power if you allow them to fill your heart with hate and pain and that's not where I'm comming from on this issue.

You just said yourself that this guy should be given a long, painful death. If this sentiment didn't come from his actions then you enjoy the pain and suffering of others, regardless of their guilt.

Please refer to my "weeds in the garden" analogy. Eliminating people like this from the gene pool can only better it for future generations.

That's a pretty shitty analogy when you consider that you eliminate people from the gene pool by putting them in prison for the rest of their lives. Actually, scratch that, you're analogy would require killing their offspring as well.

When people start to see that there will be major consequences to their actions instead of getting to sit in jail getting a free education (wheither it be academic or criminal), reading books, exercising in the yard, watching tv, etc., then at least some of them might reconsider some of the decisions that they make.

So then the introduction of the death penalty should beget a trend of decreased crime, right?

Haha... this turned into a good discussion...

Look Ark, you don't have to be an ass about this. I am simply stating my viewpoint. I'm not trying to change your mind or lobby for the death penalty.

Right, you don't speak with anger when you say this:
Of course I said that in anger. However, my beliefs about the death penalty are not baised in anger.

You do of course realize that it costs more money to put someone to death then it does to simply keep them locked up, right?
So your trying to tell me that housing, feeding, providing medical care, and access to education for 40+ years is less expensive than a leathal injection and a burial? Show me your proof.

That mirrors their view as well. The people that they kill, for whatever reason don't deserve to live in their eyes. What makes your postion any better?
How about the fact that I don't rape children or beat old people to death or that I understand what "correct social behavior" is........

No one is saying that you do, so don't bring it up to sound more apathetic.
I didn't bring that up to sound more apathetic, I brought it up to illustrate the fact that I don't believe that all cases of murder and such deserve the death penalty.

Yes, you've stated this, I know. You have however omitted a reason for it.
I'm sorry....I figured that "blatant disregard for human life" was enough of a reason.:scratch:

Ummm... it keeps them from committing any further crimes. Thought that was pretty simple.
Except for when they get paroled, then it does nothing. Whereas, eliminating them all together does not give this option.....I thought that was pretty simple also.....

I never said that they would feel sorrow or remorse for their crimes. We are talking about people that are beyond rehabilitation so why would this be an issue?
For arguments sake ass......

You just said yourself that this guy should be given a long, painful death. If this sentiment didn't come from his actions then you enjoy the pain and suffering of others, regardless of their guilt.

Your right, we should coddle him in prison for killing a helpless child......Contrary to what you may believe, I can feel like that about someone that commits such a heinous act and still not have hate in my heart. And as far as enjoying the pain and suffering of others, regardless of their guilt........You get this from my statment about a convicted killer and assume that I would feel this way about an innocent person? That's quite an assumption on your part.

That's a pretty shitty analogy when you consider that you eliminate people from the gene pool by putting them in prison for the rest of their lives. Actually, scratch that, you're analogy would require killing their offspring as well.
Ever hear of a conjugal visit? And your right about the offspring.....obviously killing offspring wouldn't be acceptable, however, at least there would be one less killer that would be able to create any more offspring.

So then the introduction of the death penalty should beget a trend of decreased crime, right?
When applied to one state, no.....When applied to a whole nation, yes.

The death penalty should be put to more use to reduce the expense of tax payer's money for keeping them alive.
And I remember reading that a good number of criminals, after being released from prison, just go right back, just add a few more victims of their crimes to the list.

The death penalty should be put to more use to reduce the expense of tax payer's money for keeping them alive.
And I remember reading that a good number of criminals, after being released from prison, just go right back, just add a few more victims of their crimes to the list.
If you can't back it up with government/educational research links don't post it. Be ready to defend your opinions with facts... you'll potentially end up changing your opinion. :)

If you can't back it up with government/educational research links don't post it. Be ready to defend your opinions with facts... you'll potentially end up changing your opinion. :)

#3 Rule of Internet Debate

Learn it well

A survey showed that among the nearly 300,000 prisoners released, 67.5% were rearrested within 3 years, and 51.8% were back in prison.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States#Population_statistics

Wikipedia=Fail.

Wikipedia=Fail.
You can count on it most of the time... but I don't buy "a recent survey" that doesn't tell who did the survey, how it was conducted etc... nearly all of this is available on .gov sites if you dig.

I stand by what I said!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vert8813B

I think it's pretty accurate.

Deleted.

Damn.
Well it said you are gay. Which is true. Therefore proving wiki is a reliable source.
You'll have to take my word for it :D

lol. I saw an article about cool_as_crap in encarta. It said you like it when they PIITB.

Alright fags.. .back on track, find the statistics on reputable sites. If you believe something just by "I heard" you're a moron. I realize that most people are not capable of critical thinking and I'm a bit cynical when it comes to people accepting things without thinking about them or seeing evidence mainly due to I've questioned everything my entire life. I'm a fuckin rebel son.

Look Ark, you don't have to be an ass about this. I am simply stating my viewpoint. I'm not trying to change your mind or lobby for the death penalty.

How am I being an ass? I’m simply addressing your weak arguments. If you don’t like it, then either improve yours or don’t share at all.

Of course I said that in anger. However, my beliefs about the death penalty are not baised in anger.

So you state that you hope this person suffers a slow, agonizing death, concede that this sentiment is held in anger, and then try to maintain that your view on the death penalty has nothing to do with anger. Anyone else see anything wrong with this?

So your trying to tell me that housing, feeding, providing medical care, and access to education for 40+ years is less expensive than a leathal injection and a burial? Show me your proof.

Yes, that is exactly what I am telling you. Now, normally in a debate, the burden of proof is on the party which made the initial claim, as in when you said:

I see absolutly no need in spending time, money, and resources to house these types of people. It's a waste.

However, since the evidence that proves the contrary to your assumptions was so easy to find:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108

A nice little synopsis for you here: The state of Florida would save $51 million per year by punishing first degree murderers with life in prison then they do by using capital punishment.

How about the fact that I don't rape children or beat old people to death or that I understand what "correct social behavior" is........

I never said that you do, nor would I ever say that about you or any other member on these boards. A comparison was drawn to show that both take pleasure in the suffering of others.

I didn't bring that up to sound more apathetic, I brought it up to illustrate the fact that I don't believe that all cases of murder and such deserve the death penalty.

Fair enough

I'm sorry....I figured that "blatant disregard for human life" was enough of a reason.:scratch:

I thought you said that not every case deserves the death penalty?

Except for when they get paroled, then it does nothing. Whereas, eliminating them all together does not give this option.....I thought that was pretty simple also.....

Which is why I said (and several times for good measure) that those who can not be rehabilitated should be locked up forever.

For arguments sake ass......

My mistake. Normally, in a debate, one doesn’t introduce a hypothetical situation that neither party is disputing.

Your right, we should coddle him in prison for killing a helpless child.....

Straw man.

Contrary to what you may believe, I can feel like that about someone that commits such a heinous act and still not have hate in my heart. And as far as enjoying the pain and suffering of others, regardless of their guilt........You get this from my statment about a convicted killer and assume that I would feel this way about an innocent person? That's quite an assumption on your part.

Nope, I didn’t assume anything. You said that you hope that this guy suffers a painful death. The word “hope” implies some wishful thinking on your part which means that you desire his torment. Such a feeling is human because this person either hurt you personally or hurt certain societal norms that you value which beget anger, hate, etc. But wait, according to you there was no hate evoked by his actions which means your desire lies inherently. Get it?

Ever hear of a conjugal visit?

LOL

Yeah right, because those held in medium and maximum security prisons are granted conjugal visits. Do yourself a favour and stop basing you arguments on television.

And your right about the offspring.....obviously killing offspring wouldn't be acceptable, however, at least there would be one less killer that would be able to create any more offspring.

Could you show me any evidence to support the idea that murderers and rapists beget children who become murderers and rapists?

When applied to one state, no.....When applied to a whole nation, yes.

Once again, got any evidence to support this or is this just more speculation derived from too much Show Time TV?

Maybe you should sit the next few rounds out?

According to state and federal records obtained by The Los Angeles Times, maintaining the California death penalty system costs taxpayers more than $114 million a year beyond the cost of simply keeping the convicts locked up for life. This figure does not count the millions more spent on court costs to prosecute capital cases. The Times concluded that Californians and federal taxpayers have paid more than a quarter of a billion dollars for each of the state's 11 executions, and that it costs $90,000 more a year to house one inmate on death row, where each person has a private cell and extra guards, than in general prison population. This additional cost per prisoner adds up to $57.5 million in annual spending.
(Los Angeles Times, March 6, 2005).

Now that the money issue is out of the way and pretty much been settled. What about ethics? k, 1 2 3 go...

In purely ideological context, it would certainly benefit the human race to remove this kind of destructive potential from the gene pool. There is no benefit to keeping violent murders alive. What do they contribute to society?

But then again, we're not a fascist state. The powers that be can't just remove defective genes from the open market.

In purely ideological context, it would certainly benefit the human race to remove this kind of destructive potential from the gene pool. There is no benefit to keeping violent murders alive. What do they contribute to society?

But then again, we're not a fascist state. The powers that be can't just remove defective genes from the open market.
In my opinion and knowledge I've gained from psy courses... I think extreme behavior comes from nurture vs nature.

Maybe my post was misleading (i.e. "genetic material"). Strike that and consider "family lineage". Abusers create abusers (if they survive their childhoods).

Maybe my post was misleading (i.e. "genetic material"). Strike that and consider "family lineage". Abusers create abusers (if they survive their childhoods).
Two people get married and things end up in constant arguments... the stress creates violence, it starts over. You still haven't "pulled this from the gene pool."

Orders of magnitude less likely to result in child abuse if the arguers were not themselves beaten as children.

No I don't have an online source to back up my opinion, so take it as nothing more than what any bum on the street could give you........

Regardless of "what ifs"... It's no man's right to take another life.

I feel the exception being a "it's either me or you" type situation.

According to state and federal records obtained by The Los Angeles Times, maintaining the California death penalty system costs taxpayers more than $114 million a year beyond the cost of simply keeping the convicts locked up for life.
In a different world, I wonder what would we see if families are allow to inflict justice to convicted criminals? Would you then rather see Capital punishment? With this new light, wouldn't this cost be consider lower than the alternative?

In a different world, I wonder what would we see if families are allow to inflict justice to convicted criminals? Would you then rather see Capital punishment? With this new light, wouldn't this cost be consider lower than the alternative?
What would happen? An ethical solution I'd hope.

Regardless of "what ifs"... It's no man's right to take another life.

Do you mean to tell me that you wouldn't shoot some meth tweaking lunatic if he raised a weapon at your family?

Do you mean to tell me that you wouldn't shoot some meth tweaking lunatic if he raised a weapon at your family?
Of course, if I had to. Self defense is a given and usually not even brought up in this debate due to all parties accepting it... way to be simplistic.:bigthumb:

After criminals are detained it's no longer self defense... and no one has a right to take their life.

wow, this has gone all over the map....

first, the father didnt make that video, I know someone said that earlier.

Second, I did a quick look around, and there appears to be a lot more to this story. It would be even sadder if the mom was wrongly convicted, sentenced to 27 years, all after losing her daughter through no fault of her own.

OK, now, onto the debates.

1--wikipedia not to your liking? Try this one:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/reentry/reentry.htm

The BJS is the agency that is responsible for collecting and managing this data, so I would say they are an authority. The data shows:

Among State parole discharges in 2000, 41% successfully completed their term of supervision; relatively unchanged since 1990.

In plain terms, that means that 59% of all parolees that year went back to jail before their parole was up. And this is only parolees here, the study does not mention the criminals that dont get parole, serve the whole sentence, and then go back out on the streets. I majored in criminal justice, and in my experience that category produces even more repeat offenders.

2--the death penalty is NOT more expensive than life sentences. The extra cost comes from the requirements that are placed on the system. For example--

--death penalty trials are almost always substantially more expensive to taxpayers, because of the pressure on both sides. More expeert witnesses, more forensics in many cases, longer trials, the costs go up and up when compared to non-capital offense trials

--death penalty cases have two trials, all others have one. The second trial is the sentencing trial, a whole new proceeding in itself. Again, $$$...

--then, the convicted criminal sits on death row for 5-7 years or more, all the time filing appeal after appeal. How much extra money do you think those appeals burn up?? A TON.

Without the death penalty, there is one trial. The person goes to jail. Even if they appeal, the appeal is usually far simpler. Many dont even file appeals, but in death penalty cases, there is almost ALWAYS an appeal, or multiple appeals.

I am not saying that I dont agree with the system, nor am I saying that I do. I am just stating the facts.

Ark--this is from the same source you quoted:

At the trial level, death penalty cases are estimated to generate roughly $470,000 inadditional costs to the prosecution and defense over the cost of trying the same case as an aggravated murder without the death penalty and costs of $47,000 to $70,000 for court personnel.

On direct appeal, the cost of appellate defense averages $100,000 more in death penalty cases, than in non-death penalty murder cases.

Personal restraint petitions filed in death penalty cases on average cost an additional$137,000 in public defense costs.

Death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.

Thats the extra cost. The majority of death penalty convictions in some states are also overturned, meaning that all that money was spent on the wrong person. All of this figures in when they take the total cost of the death penalty program and average it out against the number of death sentences that are handed down....which skews the numbers drastically as well. New Jersey, for example, has the following death penalty stats:

--death penalty has cost taxpayers $253 million from 1983 through 2006.
--Since 1982, there have been 197 capital trials in New Jersey and 60 death sentences, of which 50 were reversed.
--there are currently 10 inmates on death row.

A perfect example of this is Robert Marshall, New Jersey death row inmate. This guy has been on NJ's death row since October, 1986. Last August, they changed his sentence to life in prison. The guy spent TWENTY YEARS on death row filing appeal after appeal and fighting it, all on taxpayer's dime.

In plain terms, that means that 59% of all parolees that year went back to jail before their parole was up. And this is only parolees here, the study does not mention the criminals that dont get parole, serve the whole sentence, and then go back out on the streets. I majored in criminal justice, and in my experience that category produces even more repeat offenders.

Right, but how many of these people are in prison for drug offenses? Granted some are violent offenders but not all of them would fall under this class of criminal, so I'm not really sure whyt it was initially brought up, unless cool as crap is suggesting that the death penalty be awarded for drug crimes?

2--the death penalty is NOT more expensive than life sentences. The extra cost comes from the requirements that are placed on the system. For example--

Yes is it. These requirements are all part of the death penalty. Excessive at times? Indisputable. Necessary? Yes, they are. When safe guarding against a fate of such finality being wrongly doled out. The extreme and unnecessary method of punishment makes such safe guards essential.

--death penalty trials are almost always substantially more expensive to taxpayers, because of the pressure on both sides. More expeert witnesses, more forensics in many cases, longer trials, the costs go up and up when compared to non-capital offense trials

I hear what you're saying here. The reason why the death penalty costs more than life in prison is misleading, but these legal costs associated with it are all part of capital punishment. Think anyone has ever wrongly been sentenced to death? Think that it's even possible? Wouldn't you want to do anything possible to avoid it?

--death penalty cases have two trials, all others have one. The second trial is the sentencing trial, a whole new proceeding in itself. Again, $$$...

All this effort, all this money to push something that isn't even necessary. Why? I know that you're just stating the facts here but this doesn't even make sense.

--then, the convicted criminal sits on death row for 5-7 years or more, all the time filing appeal after appeal. How much extra money do you think those appeals burn up?? A TON.

I would argue that some appeals are granted on relevant grounds, such as new evidence being discovered. But then again, there are those who do it simply to fuck with the legal system. Of course this sort of thing could be largely avoided by abolishing the death penalty. I've got to be honest with you here, this isn't even a moral thing for me, the death penalty just seems like a needless waste.

Without the death penalty, there is one trial. The person goes to jail. Even if they appeal, the appeal is usually far simpler. Many dont even file appeals, but in death penalty cases, there is almost ALWAYS an appeal, or multiple appeals.

I find this interesting. I wonder what causes this.

Second, I did a quick look around, and there appears to be a lot more to this story. It would be even sadder if the mom was wrongly convicted, sentenced to 27 years, all after losing her daughter through no fault of her own.

This is a good point. I hope that she has the opportunity to appeal the court's decision.