Sanctification.

Regeneration is part 1. The new birth. You got saved.

What's next? How do I become different (or better still, how does God make me different)? How do I become salt and light? How do I worship God in spirit and in truth like what is mentioned in John 4?

Part 2 is Sanctification. It's every believers business. Here's a good summary from the Westminster Confession:

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/

Can we all agree that this is what we should be focused on for the remaining time?

I can tell when I am doing good, yzf gets all offensive.

y'all have the viewpoint that god is good yet get all personally insulting when asked to support that notion.

I note that it is NOT "honegod ineffectually talking about how evil God is"
since y'all simply cannot see the notion of absolute morality applying TO god.

so, sanctification is where god says it is fine for his chosen to murder whoever he wants killed, because god has forgiven his chosen and hates the cursed ?

me: "God is good: evidence x, y, and z"


heh, I have been BEGGING for evidence x,y,or z.
all you ever post as 'evidence' is "because I say so, you are just too stupid to believe me."


Quote:
Originally Posted by honegod
so, sanctification is where god says it is fine for his chosen to murder whoever he wants killed...


I rest my case

note how leaving off the "because god has forgiven his chosen and hates the cursed ?" results in just the sort of quote yzf needs to 'prove' his current fantasy.

back to the topic, "sanctification is where god says it is fine for his chosen to murder whoever he wants killed, because god has forgiven his chosen and hates the cursed."

is an example of sanctification, agree or disagree ?

the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified; and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

true holiness being the slaughter of gods enemies.

so
"sanctification is where god says it is fine for his chosen to murder whoever he wants killed, because god has forgiven his chosen and hates the cursed."

well duh, god won't elect most people, so most people will not be ALLOWED to see god in all his bloodstained glory, and so will not be inspired to join him in the holy slaughter of his enemies.
but that is more about election than sanctification, which IS where god tells his elected few that they can do whatever they want to the unelected enemy masses because god LIKES his elected few and approves of whatever they might do.

no matter how evil it might be to anyone who has an absolute morality, which is naturally opposed to the relative morality of god.

Sanctification.

Regeneration is part 1. The new birth. You got saved.

What's next? How do I become different (or better still, how does God make me different)? How do I become salt and light? How do I worship God in spirit and in truth like what is mentioned in John 4?

Part 2 is Sanctification. It's every believers business.

Can we all agree that this is what we should be focused on for the remaining time?
Jesus Christ! Being a Christian was suppose to be easy. you just accept jesus as your personal Saviour and then try to live your life stuffed in a closet, avoiding bad people. Now wtf is this crap? Holy hell you guys are getting out of control. Whats next?

this is a great topic, but it doesn't belong on this forum

you'll have psycho jonnie pointing fingers at everyone but himself, honegod talking about how evil God is, and cz posting about....well, who cares

the forum is worthless

oh the irony....you whine about people pointing fingers, by, well.....pointing fingers....

tell you what, while youre busy over there whining and complaining, and wasting a very good topic, I will just sit back and join the thread....but not your useless game. WE ALL are sinners, Mark, you and me included. This topic is plenty relevant here as it is anywhere.

bx--this is a good start, I agree with you. so, what's next?

I didn't accuse you of anything, that's the difference, I simply reiterate what you do, and how useless you are here...you accuse me constantly...why? you're straight out of hell

what have I made a serious accusation against you about, that you have proven wrong? Name something. And when you do, try using something you have actually proven, not just said "thats a lie"...

name them...or stop whining about it. if you cant prove something, then you dont go on forever about it. Thats common sense. On the other hand, I have proven what I have posted, plenty of times.

youre right--I owe that much to bx and the insulting you cant help yourself but to post doesnt deserve the focus.

Bx--I apologize to you for getting into this crap in your thread, please continue.

just a thought---why are you bringing me up in every post? curious...this is a serious question that deserves a serious answer if youre gonna complain like you are...

I'm responding to you

when you aren't here, I stay on the topic

thats a lie that has been proven wrong too many times to count. You need to do better than that.

but so far we don't HAVE a topic, we need a definition of sanctification as a floor to dance upon, having left yzf's face { I hope :D }.

I looked at the website posted and the bit about sanctification seems a bit fuzzy, you have seen what I got out of it.

the chosen are incapable of sin, by way of being forgiven for anything they might do, which makes anything they do gods express will.

the reward for doing anything they want is heaven.

but so far we don't HAVE a topic, we need a definition of sanctification as a floor to dance upon, having left yzf's face { I hope :D }.

I looked at the website posted and the bit about sanctification seems a bit fuzzy, you have seen what I got out of it.

the chosen are incapable of sin, by way of being forgiven for anything they might do, which makes anything they do gods express will.

the reward for doing anything they want is heaven.

How did you get that from this:

I. They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection,[1] by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them:[2] the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed,[3] and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified;[4] and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces,[5] to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.[6]

II. This sanctification is throughout, in the whole man;[7] yet imperfect in this life, there abiding still some remnants of corruption in every part;[8] whence arises a continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.[9]

III. In which war, although the remaining corruption, for a time, may much prevail;[10] yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part does overcome;[11] and so, the saints grow in grace,[12] perfecting holiness in the fear of God.[13]

The numbers are proofed through the scriptures here:

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/index.html

Yet what is sanctification? Here is a good definition:

Sanctification comes from the verb sanctify. Sanctify originates from the Greek word hagiazo, which means to be "separate" or to be "set apart." In the Bible, sanctification generally relates to a sovereign act of God whereby He "sets apart" a person, place, or thing in order that His purposes may be accomplished. In the book of Exodus, God sanctifies a place of worship. "And there I will meet with the children of Israel, and the tabernacle shall be sanctified by My glory," says Exodus 29:43. Even a day can be sanctified as seen in Genesis 2:3 where the seventh day is "set apart" as a holy day of rest. "Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made."

Similarly, when a person is sanctified he or she is being set apart by God for a specific divine purpose. The very moment we are saved in Christ we are also immediately sanctified and begin the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. As God's children we are "set apart" from that moment to carry out His divine purposes unto eternity. Hebrews 10:14 says, "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."

I see no correllation with murdering Egyptian babies, however, honegod I feel I must explain something to you.

You are right to pull out of the bible those things you don't understand or see as evidence of contradiction. But at the same time you accuse you must also be willing to further investigate for a reason.

You seem incensed that God would murder the Egyptian first born, but are you aware that we all stand guilty in front of God and deserve nothing? He gave Adam a command. He broke it and from that point on we all inherit Adam's sin nature. We all are in rebellion against God from the day we are born. We prove this by regularly breaking his commandments. But getting back to the babies, even the innocent are born in sin by God's standard and his righteousness and holiness make our objections moot. If the Bible is the truth, then God owns us and can do as he pleases and we have no power or moral authority to condemn him. Did you ever play with little army men as a child? Did the good guys win and the bad guys die? They were your soldiers and you were free to do with them as you pleased and they could not overcome it.

Same with God.

Are you ever guilty of speeding? I bet you are. (So am I.) Do you get what you deserve? Not always but that doesn't remove the guilt. If the law could be everywhere at all times it would be justified in giving you a ticket for every speeding offense ever committed by you. The law can't be everywhere at all times but God does remember and you will be found guilty.

Shall we get back to sanctification?

But getting back to the babies, even the innocent are born in sin by God's standard and his righteousness and holiness make our objections moot. If the Bible is the truth, then God owns us and can do as he pleases and we have no power or moral authority to condemn him. Did you ever play with little army men as a child? Did the good guys win and the bad guys die? They were your soldiers and you were free to do with them as you pleased and they could not overcome it.

Same with God.

good choice with the toy soldiers :D

except kittens might better illustrate the relationship, since plastic soldiers can't understand that they are being hurt.

kittens CAN understand that they are being hurt, without understanding why.

so through atomic/genetic manipulation you whip up a batch of fuzzy white kittens from dust.

an enhancement you program in is you controll whether or not they ever open their eyes and will be able to see the maze you have built for them to run.

would it be moral for you to treat those kittens the way god treats mankind ?
or even just those firstborn.

or say you decide to refill the maze with kittens from only one line, would filling the maze with water to drown all the kittens except the chosen few that you sanctify out of harms way be a holy act ?

A.S.P.C.H. atheists society for the prevention of cruelty to humans.

would it be moral for you to treat those kittens the way god treats mankind ?
or even just those firstborn.

It would not be moral for me to treat the kittens the way God "deals" with mankind.

First the kittens are without sin. They have done nothing wrong. Humanity on the other hand is born in sin and with a nature of sin. Theologically I admit I do not understand how Adam's sin passes to me but I'm not stuck on it becuase even without it my conscience tells me that I have broken God's law.

This is an apples to oranges comparison. Do you see that? You can't go on until you see it this way. You are either willing to attempt to understand this or as YZF says you are in an infinite do loop, which is nothing but frustration for you and for anyone trying to explain this to you.

Sometime we'll need to discuss suffering and death.

This is an apples to oranges comparison.

it seems more a matter of scale, magnitude.

I totally fail to see the "quantum leap" between one creator of life and the other.

have fun bx :bigthumb:

Does this make sense to you? Help me out if I'm not putting this together in a logical way.

it seems more a matter of scale, magnitude.

I totally fail to see the "quantum leap" between one creator of life and the other.

The kitten does not have a soul. It cannot sin. See the difference yet? This will only make sense for you if you can comprehend that the kitten is not the same as man with regards to a sin.

Are you with me yet?

Makes sense so far.

The kitten does not have a soul. It cannot sin.

where a human cannot not sin, having a soul.

Theologically I admit I do not understand how Adam's sin passes to me but I'm not stuck on it becuase even without it my conscience tells me that I have broken God's law.

so your conscience is a function of your soul, the soul allows you to be aware of the concept of law, law which is entirely generated by god.

a law you broke by being born. with a soul.

so everybody with a soul is already convicted of breaking the law by being born, but doesn't know it until god reveals his law, only to those he chooses to forgive/sanctify.

what moral difference is there between a kitten and a souled individual who is never shown the law he broke ?

in that the point of the spiritual rebirth is god allowing his chosen to see the law, so that they can appreciate the gift of forgiveness.

he won't reveal his law to cursed humanity, won't unveil their souls, until the judgement throne where he pronounces punishment for the sin he just revealed.

except for the sanctified who he has set aside as his own.


Are you with me yet?

sort of, maybe ? :D

The kitten does not have a soul. It cannot sin. See the difference yet? This will only make sense for you if you can comprehend that the kitten is not the same as man with regards to a sin.

Are you with me yet?
No proof. Kitten innards look the same as human.

Better: After seeing a body decay, it was Man himself whom declared humans having souls. How else was the loved one to sail to heaven while its body fed the earth?

No proof. Kitten innards look the same as human.

Better: After seeing a body decay, it was Man himself whom declared humans having souls. How else was the loved one to sail to heaven while its body fed the earth?


tell you what--do me a favor. Post up an anatomical diagram of the human body and please point out the soul on it for us. If you can find it, then your contention about "innards" will have merit. But since you cannot, there goes your example. Not everything that exists can be physically seen, honegod, youre smarter than this.

honegod, youre smarter than this.

thanks :D

I am. you will notice how I did NOT jump on this part

Theologically I admit I do not understand how Adam's sin passes to me


ok, fine, if science can plead ignorance so can theology, let that slide.

Jesus Christ! Being a Christian was suppose to be easy. you just accept jesus as your personal Saviour and then try to live your life stuffed in a closet, avoiding bad people.

I'm not yet sure if you are serious or half sarcastic, but you must admit that you have found some conflicting views of what Christianity actually is. Self-proclaimed Christians seem to contradict each other.......

Why not go to the source. The first four books of the New Testament are the essence of what it means to be Christian. If the chronicles of Jesus do not move you, move on.

Why not go to the source.

bcause if you are not sanctified you cannot possibly get any truth from it.

the only way to possibly see the truth is through having a chosen to tell you what it really says.

which is not what it actually says, even though IT is the attempt of sanctified prophets telling the truth as revealed to them.

of course those prophets were writing it for other chosen without needing to encode it to protect it from unauthorised eyes, god blinds all the unchosen to the truth, so the secret bible is safe.

of course that means that the bible could indeed be the literal truth written explicitly with the unsaved mind being clouded when he looks at the words.

it's the bits where murdering children is a glorious good that puzzle me.

tell you what--do me a favor. Post up an anatomical diagram of the human body and please point out the soul on it for us. If you can find it, then your contention about "innards" will have merit. But since you cannot, there goes your example. Not everything that exists can be physically seen, honegod, youre smarter than this.
Maybe you missed the point. My letter was a reminder that before you claim that there is a soul, you still have to prove that a god exist. Otherwise, the act of adding more nonfactual stuff to prove another nonfactual stuff and then calling out the unbeliever to prove it wrong, is funny in itself.

I'm not yet sure if you are serious or half sarcastic, but you must admit that you have found some conflicting views of what Christianity actually is. Self-proclaimed Christians seem to contradict each other.......

Why not go to the source. The first four books of the New Testament are the essence of what it means to be Christian. If the chronicles of Jesus do not move you, move on.
There is nothing wrong with the life of Jesus. Like being an audience for a magic show, all holy powers are to be view with the same skepticism. We can't prove it wasn't magic, but we could if we were actually there or in this case, up on stage being very nosey.

Also as we examine the so called God’s words, the inconsistency within suggest otherwise.

thanks :D

I am. you will notice how I did NOT jump on this part




ok, fine, if science can plead ignorance so can theology, let that slide.


better yet, why dont you jump on that part....you say that a kitten's innards look the same as ours. So, why do you think it is that humans are the only race on the entire planet that goes so far out of the way to change our environment to fit us? Every other species adapts to its environment, but we adapt our environment to us. What other species, though they may look the same inside, has done this?

Clearly, this shows vast differences between the innards of a human vs those of a kitten, no?

Maybe you missed the point. My letter was a reminder that before you claim that there is a soul, you still have to prove that a god exist. Otherwise, the act of adding more nonfactual stuff to prove another nonfactual stuff and then calling out the unbeliever to prove it wrong, is funny in itself.

I see....so, what youre saying is that two claims are being made here. One claim is that there is a God, and the other is that there is not. yet you want the other side to prove its case, so you dont have to prove yours?

"before you claim there is a soul, you have to prove that God exists"....why dont the nonbelievers have to likewise prove that God doesnt exist for their claim to be valid? Lets not get into this double-standard, ok? The simple fact is that you know you cannot prove your side, because in your eyes there is no such proof....and asking the other side to prove their case is nothing more than an excuse...."well, he couldnt prove there is a God, so there must not be...."

Thats the easy way out, czar. Dig deeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by czarofzar
No proof. Kitten innards look the same as human.


Every other species adapts to its environment, but we adapt our environment to us. What other species, though they may look the same inside, has done this?

bees ?, ants ?

bees standing in the doorway into the hive fanning cool air to the queen on hot days.

an transitional species on the way to a telepathic hive mind ?

I see....so, what youre saying is that two claims are being made here. One claim is that there is a God, and the other is that there is not. yet you want the other side to prove its case, so you dont have to prove yours?

"before you claim there is a soul, you have to prove that God exists"....why dont the nonbelievers have to likewise prove that God doesnt exist for their claim to be valid? Lets not get into this double-standard, ok? The simple fact is that you know you cannot prove your side, because in your eyes there is no such proof....and asking the other side to prove their case is nothing more than an excuse...."well, he couldnt prove there is a God, so there must not be...."

Thats the easy way out, czar. Dig deeper
Well ok, ready? God Believers don't have proof, otherwise faith would not be a word. Since Believers don't have proof, there is just imagination. Having an imagination can be factual, but doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to producing something it desperately wants to become real.

You folks have an imagination. As so do I. But lets be honest. An imagination is all it is.

bees ?, ants ?

bees standing in the doorway into the hive fanning cool air to the queen on hot days.

an transitional species on the way to a telepathic hive mind ?

you actually think that is an example of adapting your environment to you?? Well, you are incorrect if you do. Fanning yourself because it is hot isnt changing your environment to match your preferences....but inventing an air conditioner, then building them in all kinds of shapes and sizes to fit in homes, offices, even cars, now thats a different story.

What other species aside from humans has created a way to travel faster, farther? Any other species has had to adapt to their surroundings--fanning the queen because its hot is an example of this. Exactly WHAT about that environment has changed, honegod, because of the fanning? NOTHING. It is still hot, there is just some air moving. Thats it. How many species have invented ways to combat things normally found in nature? How do animals fight infection, for example? How do animals fight disease? They dont, any more than their bodies are already equipped to. But humans have done research, created new medicines and treatments....we have adapted our daily life to suit us, not the other way around.

Well ok, ready? God Believers don't have proof, otherwise faith would not be a word. Since Believers don't have proof, there is just imagination. Having an imagination can be factual, but doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to producing something it desperately wants to become real.

You folks have an imagination. As so do I. But lets be honest. An imagination is all it is.

there is no problem with that. The problem becomes apparent when, even though you readily admit that you are no closer to proof than we are, you still claim that you are correct. You have no more absolutely concrete proof than anyone else, but you have no problem emphatically stating that there is no God. Now, tell me why you should be complaining if I say there is a God, when you do the exact same thing on your own side....

Every other species adapts to its environment, but we adapt our environment to us. What other species, though they may look the same inside, has done this?
When we are adapting our environment, all we are doing is controlling our evaporation rate that our body gives off. Therefore we can still say the bees are doing the same but with less energy. Hmmmm guess the bees are doing their part for Green Earth

there is no problem with that. The problem becomes apparent when, even though you readily admit that you are no closer to proof than we are, you still claim that you are correct. You have no more absolutely concrete proof than anyone else, but you have no problem emphatically stating that there is no God. Now, tell me why you should be complaining if I say there is a God, when you do the exact same thing on your own side....

true, I don't know much about absolute beginning. Thou, I am comfortable that we were created naturally by chance, by micro-organism. That is because we see it today in labs. 100 years or 500 years ago, however, I would have agreed with you, believing in a God.

When we are adapting our environment, all we are doing is controlling our evaporation rate that our body gives off. Therefore we can still say the bees are doing the same but with less energy. Hmmmm guess the bees are doing their part for Green Earth

let me simplify this even further for you

think of it like this--bees, ants, any other species, they have to work with only what is found in nature. They have to survive with only what is already there. Man did not follow that. Man has learned to take raw materials and make things that cannot be found in nature. How many bees have you seen driving a car? Look at our environment, and compare it to strict nature--without refined metals, complex man-made machines or structures, conveniences like the microwave oven....there is simply no comparison.

Now, when you look at your true environment---look at everything in your house, everything that you use every day without even thinking about it---it should be plainly obvious what I am saying. Other species use what they have available, and they have nothing else. The human race, however, has changed its environment...inventing, building, doing things that no other species anywhere even comes close to. Does that make sense now?

true, I don't know much about absolute beginning. Thou, I am comfortable that we were created naturally by chance, by micro-organism. That is because we see it today in labs. 100 years or 500 years ago, however, I would have agreed with you, believing in a God.

so why do you emphasize that there is no god, then? If you are in the same boat, with no definitive proof, isnt your claim only a guess and nothing more? But you assert it as fact, and belittle someone who doesnt agree.

let me simplify this even further for you

think of it like this--bees, ants, any other species, they have to work with only what is found in nature. They have to survive with only what is already there. Man did not follow that. Man has learned to take raw materials and make things that cannot be found in nature. How many bees have you seen driving a car? Look at our environment, and compare it to strict nature--without refined metals, complex man-made machines or structures, conveniences like the microwave oven....there is simply no comparison.

Now, when you look at your true environment---look at everything in your house, everything that you use every day without even thinking about it---it should be plainly obvious what I am saying. Other species use what they have available, and they have nothing else. The human race, however, has changed its environment...inventing, building, doing things that no other species anywhere even comes close to. Does that make sense now?
well, isn't this really about which life form has a better memory?

so why do you emphasize that there is no god, then? If you are in the same boat, with no definitive proof, isnt your claim only a guess and nothing more? But you assert it as fact, and belittle someone who doesnt agree.

Because as communication gets faster, god's power shrinks. Notice how great gods power was during clay tablets era, diminishing powers to what only jesus can perform from paper, and finally with cameras....nothing. No God.

Anyway, I don't make a hobby out of it nor put a great emphasis towards my morals.

And you may belittle me if you wish. I am a big boy. If you really find I dish it out, I expect you and anyone else to reply in kind.

inventing an air conditioner, then building them in all kinds of shapes and sizes to fit in homes,

the bees built a house for their queen, to protect her from the environment, thus changing the environment to better suit her.

the fanning bit is exactly what humans do, and did before we invented air conditioners for our houses.

in point of fact, the Ancestorial Mansion uses one largish intake fan as our sole active cooling device in the summer, period, no air conditioner, a device that could be replaced by slaves waving palm fronds, or a bunch of bees.

so I still see only a difference in degree rather than kind here.

[edit; I am working on devising a solar powered thermal convection setup to eliminate the need for the fan, I am having difficulty in combining the unit with the solar power winter heating unit though, know a good forum where I could post about it ?]

see what?
Re read my passage and when you hit that same spot again, kind of glance a bit to your left. You'll find what 'it' means.

[edit; I am working on devising a solar powered thermal convection setup to eliminate the need for the fan, I am having difficulty in combining the unit with the solar power winter heating unit though, know a good forum where I could post about it ?]
Nothing current, sorry.

Nothing current

yah, it sux that there isn't a forum where we could brainstorm up some excellent tech to solve some of these dumb problems.

for instance I am sure there must be a way to arrange a couple of mirrors to bounce sunlight around to a stable spot, eliminating the need for mechanical tracking, something like mirror 1 set at 45° to the main arc of the sun reflecting onto mirror 2 set at 45° to it so that the motion of the sun is translated from side to side into an in and out motion.

either it is not possible or somebody already patented it or I need to invent it.

I am visualizing a 2 square yard box that shines a 1 square yard beam of sunlight at an unmoving spot for like 90° of the suns path through the sky.

put about 50 of these boxes in the yard all pointed at a 1 square yard collector = profit.

you goofballs need to stop gumming up a good bx thread with your claptrap about kittens :rolleyes:

A good bx thread? A good bx thread? All my threads are good.

When we are adapting our environment, all we are doing is controlling our evaporation rate that our body gives off. Therefore we can still say the bees are doing the same but with less energy. Hmmmm guess the bees are doing their part for Green Earth

you certainly are forgetting a whole lot about what we do to our surroundings.....the way we have refined metals and minerals, the way we have created entirely new substances that are not found in nature....the way that we do things that we were not designed to do.

For example, the whole comment about bees making a house. That is what they were designed to do. They have the built-in capability to make that structure out of that material. Compare this to humans, say, building airplanes out of composite materials. Humans were not designed with an inherent capability for flight, yet we now have the ability to get on a plane that man built and fly. Bees are only doing what they were designed to do. And, nothing they build is not natural. But the things we build are often not natural. Plastics are not found in nature by themselves, neither are metal alloys. Face it, the human race has far more capability and experience in adapting the environment to our wishes than any other species.

the bees built a house for their queen, to protect her from the environment, thus changing the environment to better suit her.

They did not change their environment--they merely made a shelter. That environment is still exactly the same. All they did was build a shelter out of a substance that they were designed to produce. That is not anywhere close to the same thing. We erect buildings too--out of substances that:

1--arent always found in nature
2--are often refined from the original state as found in nature
3--are designed to withstand the effects of nature, such as earthquakes, etc.

I could go on all day. Look at the airplane example. Bees were inherently designed to make that structure out of that substance. humans were not inherently designed to create various metal alloys, or composite materials....nor were we designed to build contraptions that could fly or go into space....but we did all of those things. No other species does anything close to what humans do. honegod, your bee house example isnt impressive...tell you what, show me when those bees invent air conditioning for that beehive....then I would be impressed.

There is a major difference between building a house due to inherent capabilities, and designing, creating, and using things that arent found in nature. Bees by their own structure and design produce the wax that goes into the comb...but we do not.

yah, it sux that there isn't a forum where we could brainstorm up some excellent tech to solve some of these dumb problems.

for instance I am sure there must be a way to arrange a couple of mirrors to bounce sunlight around to a stable spot, eliminating the need for mechanical tracking, something like mirror 1 set at 45° to the main arc of the sun reflecting onto mirror 2 set at 45° to it so that the motion of the sun is translated from side to side into an in and out motion.

either it is not possible or somebody already patented it or I need to invent it.

I am visualizing a 2 square yard box that shines a 1 square yard beam of sunlight at an unmoving spot for like 90° of the suns path through the sky.

put about 50 of these boxes in the yard all pointed at a 1 square yard collector = profit.
Something of interest.
http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/18539/

you certainly are forgetting a whole lot about what we do to our surroundings.....the way we have refined metals and minerals, the way we have created entirely new substances that are not found in nature....the way that we do things that we were not designed to do.

For example, the whole comment about bees making a house. That is what they were designed to do. They have the built-in capability to make that structure out of that material. Compare this to humans, say, building airplanes out of composite materials. Humans were not designed with an inherent capability for flight, yet we now have the ability to get on a plane that man built and fly. Bees are only doing what they were designed to do. And, nothing they build is not natural. But the things we build are often not natural. Plastics are not found in nature by themselves, neither are metal alloys. Face it, the human race has far more capability and experience in adapting the environment to our wishes than any other species.

Comparing to all species, all you proved here is that humans have superior memory. Don't know how that would equate to having a soul. Comparing Birds to bugs, as to humans to animals, your argument is in parallel with a bird that fishes a bug with a tool and therefore would have a soul than the tiny soon-to-be meal.

http://pharyngula.org/images/tool-using_crow.jpg

Comparing to all species, all you proved here is that humans have superior memory. Don't know how that would equate to having a soul. Comparing Birds to bugs, as to humans to animals, your argument is in parallel with a bird that fishes a bug with a tool and therefore would have a soul than the tiny soon-to-be meal.

http://pharyngula.org/images/tool-using_crow.jpg

you apparently do not bother reading much before you think you know what people are saying. How many times do I have to mention the point about things that arent inherently found in nature before you will stop acting as if I didnt make such a distinction?

A bird that uses a stick is just that--it found a "tool" that was already in nature. Nothing more. But the human race creates things, builds things, invents things, that are not inherently found in nature. To build those things, the human race develops materials that arent inherently found in nature. If you cannot see the difference between using a stick and crafting a specialized tool out of polystyrene, or aluminum alloy, or carbon fiber, then I am sorry that I cannot help you.

Once again, how many other species on the planet have demonstrated the ability to do such things? Other than the human race, none...

By the way, what does memory have to do with anything? It doesnt. Memory is not needed for humans to do such things--since we also are the only species that comes to mind that has documented much of our history...you dont need a good memory, you need only the ability to read. I fail to see how carbon fiber, fiberglass, chrome-moly, and all the other man-made materials point to memory, when all that is needed is the ability to read what the last guy wrote down. Memory also was not needed for the pioneers to research and discover new things. Take the airplane--the Wright Brothers did their own testing and research, and documented as they went. Future generations, to this day, still use and teach the exact same basic principles that the Wrights learned in 1903.....and since it was all written down, no one needed a "better memory". Speaking of, show me any other species that has achieved flight without inherently already having the capability. And then, show me one which designed, built, tested, and recorded the results of such a machine to aid in this process. You think that all of this is only from memory??

yes

bcause if you are not sanctified you cannot possibly get any truth from it.


Bullshit.


the only way to possibly see the truth is through having a chosen to tell you what it really says.


From the vantage point of the spiritually dead (YOU), everything about the Word will cause fits of rage over perceived crimes against children.


which is not what it actually says, even though IT is the attempt of sanctified prophets telling the truth as revealed to them.


The first four books of the New Testament are pretty clear. Maybe after you get through rehab next time, you will understand basic logic.


of course those prophets were writing it for other chosen without needing to encode it to protect it from unauthorised eyes, god blinds all the unchosen to the truth, so the secret bible is safe.


Absolute rubbish. If it were only for the chosen, why would we be commanded to distribute it to every ear?


of course that means that the bible could indeed be the literal truth written explicitly with the unsaved mind being clouded when he looks at the words.


This seems logical from the standpoint of an observer who is spiritually dead.


it's the bits where murdering children is a glorious good that puzzle me.

You are stuck on the children of the wicked nations of Moses' time. Ever seen children in Brazil? How about Somalia? Since you are obviously blinded by your own traumatic childhood, the realities of how cruel and WICKED children can become (irrecoverably, as proven by yourself), rebooting society is the only logical measure to a Creator of Justice.

yes

Why am I not surprised?? You probably also think that 'innuendo' is an Italian suppository....

Back on topic.

For us who are believers, I ask how are we to be sanctified?

Looking back to the Westminister Confession, how are you going to get this started?

They who are effectually called and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, by his Word and Spirit dwelling in them; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified, and they more and more quickened and strengthened, in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.


Now I have to be honest, I don't get the "through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection" part, but I do understand "by his Word and Spirit dwelling in them".

Again what's the purpose of all of this? The way I see it and correct me if I'm wrong, the purpose of all of this is to grow in relationship with Christ and God and surely the Holy Spirit and to overcome our sinful natures. If God is extending invitation to us, the elect, to know him better and to have victory over sin in our lives; if God is inviting us to a real relationship with him, then shouldn't that be something were thinking about night and day?

Look at what David says in Psalms 119:

1 Blessed are they whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord.
2 Blessed are they who keep his statutes and seek him with all their heart.
3 They do nothing wrong; they walk in his ways.
4 You have laid down precepts that are to be fully obeyed.
5 Oh, that my ways were steadfast in obeying your decrees!
6 Then I would not be put to shame when I consider all your commands.
7 I will praise you with an upright heart as I learn your righteous laws.
8 I will obey your decrees; do not utterly forsake me.

b Beth

9 How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word.
10 I seek you with all my heart; do not let me stray from your commands.
11 I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.
12 Praise be to you, O Lord; teach me your decrees.
13 With my lips I recount all the laws that come from your mouth.
14 I rejoice in following your statutes as one rejoices in great riches.
15 I meditate on your precepts and consider your ways.
16 I delight in your decrees; I will not neglect your word.

g Gimel

17 Do good to your servant, and I will live; I will obey your word.
18 Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law.
19 I am a stranger on earth; do not hide your commands from me.
20 My soul is consumed with longing for your laws at all times.
21 You rebuke the arrogant, who are cursed and who stray from your commands.
22 Remove from me scorn and contempt, for I keep your statutes.
23 Though rulers sit together and slander me, your servant will meditate on your decrees.
24 Your statutes are my delight; they are my counselors.

d Daleth

25 I am laid low in the dust; preserve my life according to your word.
26 I recounted my ways and you answered me; teach me your decrees.
27 Let me understand the teaching of your precepts; then I will meditate on your wonders.
28 My soul is weary with sorrow; strengthen me according to your word.
29 Keep me from deceitful ways; be gracious to me through your law.
30 I have chosen the way of truth; I have set my heart on your laws.
31 I hold fast to your statutes, O Lord; do not let me be put to shame.
32 I run in the path of your commands, for you have set my heart free.

h He

33 Teach me, O Lord, to follow your decrees; then I will keep them to the end.
34 Give me understanding, and I will keep your law and obey it with all my heart.
35 Direct me in the path of your commands, for there I find delight.
36 Turn my heart toward your statutes and not toward selfish gain.
37 Turn my eyes away from worthless things; preserve my life according to your word. [fn2]
38 Fulfill your promise to your servant, so that you may be feared.
39 Take away the disgrace I dread, for your laws are good.
40 How I long for your precepts! Preserve my life in your righteousness.

Here's an example of a sanctified guy and what's he talking about? He's talking about God's word, which is the Bible. We should be studying God's word if we want to be sanctified.

If you have time, listen to this guy's sermon on reading God's word:

http://web.mac.com/fbcbb/iWeb/FBCBB%20Podcast/Podcast/4F315087-054E-444A-B9DF-F51CB286F1E1.html

Why am I not surprised?? You probably also think that 'innuendo' is an Italian suppository....
I'm not that stupid. Innuendo is a band made up of teenage boys that look Italian.

Comparing to all species, all you proved here is that humans have superior memory. Don't know how that would equate to having a soul. Comparing Birds to bugs, as to humans to animals, your argument is in parallel with a bird that fishes a bug with a tool and therefore would have a soul than the tiny soon-to-be meal.

http://pharyngula.org/images/tool-using_crow.jpg


CZ is going to like this site:

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0106/petsinheaven.html

this is a world which has lost it's fear of fairytales

quite right.

note: I didn't say who the "quote" was from. :D

CZ is going to like this site:

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0106/petsinheaven.html

Holy wow! I REALLY love that story! Poor Chinapeople, hehe. Thx pep! :)

Holy wow! I REALLY love that story! Poor Chinapeople, hehe. Thx pep! :)


Did you read the rest of the site....some of that crap I even got offended. :blah:
Poor taste, but all in good humor....

But how do you go about Sanctification each day?

But how do you go about Sanctification each day?
fight in the army

kill some unbelievers.

you know the answer to that, I think...living it is the tough part!

I was trying to get a discussion on the process: prayer, bible devotions, meditation on the devotions, etc. That sort of thing. Do you have a disciplined approach that you'd care to share?

I myself want to get into the habit of spending the first part of my morning in prayer and in a devotional. I get up between 4 and 5 and I've found it difficult in being able to squeeze in Bible and meditation time. Prayer is a lot easier.


And the part about living it, how are you sure? Should you expect a confirmation on your meditation a daily event? Somebody (of the elect) throw me a bone here.

far too personal for this wacky forum, brother

PM?

Sure. I was hoping the believers among us could throw some stuff out to help lift each other up.

kill some unbelievers.

You either have Christianity confused with Judaism or Islam.

Sure. I was hoping the believers among us could throw some stuff out to help lift each other up.

But it's so much more fun to evangelize the revilers. Because once, just once, when you deliver the message, the Truth flashes in their heart, and your work is done. For this we will be held accountable.