Is it a sin?

Discuss

Despite our best human efforts, we will never measure up to the Lord's perfect standard. If God forgives, so should we, if the diligence for never ending improvement is not sacrificed in the process.

-One guy's opinion

I forgive myself to where I don't need a christ or some other hidden deity.

I'm amazed at those who hold resentment months, if not decades, after the fact (as if they don't sin daily)


Oh, the irony...

You are known, on occasion, to hold grudges and dig up old shit.

I see that more among Yzf haters than the man himself. Yzf reacts, for the most part, while yzf haters keep bringing up old shit time and time again.

I'll admit, his behavior makes me cringe at times, but who am I to focus on someone apart from myself when I, too, could get pissed at all the smackery coming my way if I were to preach the Word as forcefully as he?

Let's face it. Yzf is a target for many in here. It livens up the forum to take potshots at yzf.

I find it easier to forgive others than I do myself for doing things wrong. Of course, I tend to hold myself to high standards.

in your own flesh, by your own works, you cannot even hope to achieve God's righteous standard of sinless perfection "without holiness no one will see God"

The point of self forgiveness isn't about your god standards. It's about finding Jesus useless if in fact you can achieve self forgiveness. After all, your religion speaks a lot about being forgiven for your sins. If you cry with tissues stuffed into your nose, I can see why you have chosen christ and begged for his forgiveness.

I see that more among Yzf haters than the man himself. Yzf reacts, for the most part, while yzf haters keep bringing up old shit time and time again.

I'll admit, his behavior makes me cringe at times, but who am I to focus on someone apart from myself when I, too, could get pissed at all the smackery coming my way if I were to preach the Word as forcefully as he?

Let's face it. Yzf is a target for many in here. It livens up the forum to take potshots at yzf.
You are clueless. I think you missed a spot on YZF's butt.

I see that more among Yzf haters than the man himself. Yzf reacts, for the most part, while yzf haters keep bringing up old shit time and time again.


You may see it more, but thats also why I said he does it occasionally.

Just answering his questions.

You are clueless. I think you missed a spot on YZF's butt.

Don't hate yourself for not having a teflon nose...... the glass ceiling got you down?

Don't hate yourself for not having a teflon nose...... the glass ceiling got you down?
Ummmm ok.:scratch:

I'm not surprised that you can't comprehend my subtle humor..... although everything's fair game on TFL. Can we get back to the subject at hand, that you feel self righteous enough to not need a higher standard for judging your natural human tendencies?

The point of self forgiveness isn't about your god standards. It's about finding Jesus useless if in fact you can achieve self forgiveness. After all, your religion speaks a lot about being forgiven for your sins. If you cry with tissues stuffed into your nose, I can see why you have chosen christ and begged for his forgiveness.

but thats the thing--what purpose does forgiveness for your sins serve without Jesus or God? This is a serious question....forgiveness of our sins comes only one way--because of the grace of God and the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus. For that matter, there wouldnt even be sins if God did not exist.

I'm not surprised that you can't comprehend my subtle humor..... although everything's fair game on TFL. Can we get back to the subject at hand, that you feel self righteous enough to not need a higher standard for judging your natural human tendencies?
:boring:

Why yes, shall we? When does self forgiveness require a higher standard? Why would an individual need a validation from some other, especially from words written 10 thousand years ago, who will be 100% ignorant of how they feel today? WOOOOOYEAH! CAN I GET A WITNESS!

but thats the thing--what purpose does forgiveness for your sins serve without Jesus or God? This is a serious question....forgiveness of our sins comes only one way--because of the grace of God and the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus. For that matter, there wouldnt even be sins if God did not exist.
I think I am saying removing guilt with self forgiveness than removing sin.

I think I am saying removing guilt with self forgiveness than removing sin.

call it sin, call it guilt, you are still dancing to the same song.

Where does guilt come from? How did you end up with guilt? Here's a hint--if you have guilt about something, it's a safe bet that you did something that you know you should not have. But hey, where does that whole idea of right and wrong come from? We are most definitely not born with it, as evidenced by society itself. What used to be better taught by parents to their children has noticeably become less and less prevalent. Thus, it is something we must be taught.

If you know you shouldnt have done something, forgiving yourself will do what, exactly, to help you do better next time? Forgiving yourself won't help, because all you need to do next time you do the same thing wrong is forgive yourself again. There is nothing there that motivates you to grow, to learn not to do what you know is wrong. The same is true of the catholic concept of confession--there is nothing there that provides a reason for the person to want to grow. The concept in the Bible is laid out nicely in James 5....

13Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. 14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
17Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops. 19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

By confessing to others and asking their forgiveness, a person has help. It is a way for people to help each other to grow. By forgiving yourself, what have you accomplished? Nothing, really. You screwed up, and you know it....so, you "forgive yourself"...and then what? You go on with life? Until next time? With all due respect, I dont see the benefit in that. Forgiveness for what you do needs to come from those whom you wronged, not from yourself. If I shoot you in the leg, and then forgive myself, then what?

:boring:

Why yes, shall we? When does self forgiveness require a higher standard? Why would an individual need a validation from some other, especially from words written 10 thousand years ago, who will be 100% ignorant of how they feel today? WOOOOOYEAH! CAN I GET A WITNESS!

You confuse the real Truth with that which you were immersed with during your upbringing. Have you ever reached the dead end street that becomes of advancing yourself toward a functional ideal that only human motivation can value? Ever felt the gnawing call of duty when innocent people suffer? Wondered just how everything in this entire universe could come out so perfect for us to land here, observing this very system, from the vantage point of a mechanism far beyond our wildest abilities to engineer ourselves?

It does take a certain level of personal development to realize these things......

The real Truth is people will believe in fiction material if they didn't know better. It is really not our business to practice everything the sand people culture wants you to in the Bible. Therefore, ever wonder that things in the Bible really shouldn't be said since indeed everyone knew how to behave towards each other? Add the emotion of fear, lets say God to kill you, and there you have it, religion. Or one emotion thinking....love. bleh!

If you can behave yourself and practice self forgiveness, religion is useless.

If I shoot you in the leg, and then forgive myself, then what?
You will promptly get your ass kicked! :usa:

the glass ceiling got you down?


1 a : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for <forgive an insult> b : to grant relief from payment of <forgive a debt>
2 : to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : PARDON <forgive one's enemies>


so it looks like forgiveness requires two to play, an offender and an offendee/forgiver.

playing with god seems futile since god does NOT forgive anyone until after that person dies, at least that is when the person finds out whether or not god decided to choose to forgive him or cast him into the lake of eternal fire.


self forgiveness sounds sort of difficult too, because first you have to commit an offence against yourself and then forgive yourself for the offence.


so I interpret 'the glass ceiling' as being the arbitrary decision by god to withold his forgiveness until after it is too late for it to be useful as a learning tool, we are here and forgiveness is on the other side where we cannot reach it, and so we must live our lives in doubt and fear, hoping that we will be chosen and not cast aside.

What am I being judge for? For being mean to you? (Hands a tissue) For denying god? (Awww attention hore) Oh, for wanting to stick my peepee into another place besides the baby making hole? woooooooooooo! Cut the crap. You want me to join christ team so it will validate your thinking.

better yet, let me ask you this--what would you have to forgive yourself for? Forgiveness happens when someone is wronged. Do you plan on doing something bad to yourself so you can forgive yourself? If you do something wrong to another person, what good do you actually, seriously, think could come of forgiving yourself for hurting someone else? That makes no sense to me. THEIR forgiveness would mean something, but anyone can go around doing wrong to others, and then "forgive" themself for it. It is called having no conscience, and criminals do it every day.

I assure you, if the Book is fiction, it has a very convincing author. Since your natural spiritual innocence was ravaged by charlatans and your trust stolen by frauds, it's understandable that you take offense to any rule of Law asserted by the Almighty.

It's OK. We just want to give you the chance to turn around before it's too late.

better yet, let me ask you this--what would you have to forgive yourself for? Forgiveness happens when someone is wronged. Do you plan on doing something bad to yourself so you can forgive yourself? If you do something wrong to another person, what good do you actually, seriously, think could come of forgiving yourself for hurting someone else? That makes no sense to me. THEIR forgiveness would mean something, but anyone can go around doing wrong to others, and then "forgive" themself for it. It is called having no conscience, and criminals do it every day.

This may not be applicable in the context that czar was aiming for here but what the heck. A couple of years ago my soccer team made it to the finals (indoor soccer). With about 2 minutes left in the game we're leading 2-1 and I'm on the field while the other team is really pressing. Anyway, one of their guys gets behind me with the ball and I'm forced to tackle him in the box. Needless to say the ref calls a penalty shot, the kicker scores and the game is tied. Even though we ended up winning the game in shootouts I still felt terrible, like somehow I had blown the game. The feeling persisted even though my teamates told me not to worry about it. It took about a week but when I finally got over past it, it was because I forgave myself and to be honest with you, I feel that I was able to grow from the whole experience.

This may not be applicable in the context that czar was aiming for here but what the heck. A couple of years ago my soccer team made it to the finals (indoor soccer). With about 2 minutes left in the game we're leading 2-1 and I'm on the field while the other team is really pressing. Anyway, one of their guys gets behind me with the ball and I'm forced to tackle him in the box. Needless to say the ref calls a penalty shot, the kicker scores and the game is tied. Even though we ended up winning the game in shootouts I still felt terrible, like somehow I had blown the game. The feeling persisted even though my teamates told me not to worry about it. It took about a week but when I finally got over past it, it was because I forgave myself and to be honest with you, I feel that I was able to grow from the whole experience.
Very good ark.

You can piss off your religion/family/friends and be an outcast. Self forgiveness is needed.

Crimes aren't necessary sins or something that needs forgiveness. But the outcome to take something or to kill someone begs for forgiveness chiefly for yourself. Amoral folks, well, I am having troubles validating self forgiveness.

I assure you, if the Book is fiction, it has a very convincing author. Since your natural spiritual innocence was ravaged by charlatans and your trust stolen by frauds, it's understandable that you take offense to any rule of Law asserted by the Almighty.

It's OK. We just want to give you the chance to turn around before it's too late.
Ignorance is bliss I suppose.
Book(s). the Bible is a collection of different authors, different books. Not one story is convincing for the tales grow taller than Paul Bunyan. But some of the historical contexts are convincing. Like naming King Harold and other landmarks and famous people.

better yet, let me ask you this--what would you have to forgive yourself for? Forgiveness happens when someone is wronged. Do you plan on doing something bad to yourself so you can forgive yourself? If you do something wrong to another person, what good do you actually, seriously, think could come of forgiving yourself for hurting someone else? That makes no sense to me. THEIR forgiveness would mean something, but anyone can go around doing wrong to others, and then "forgive" themself for it. It is called having no conscience, and criminals do it every day.
Sky :)
I'm thinking of spontaneous reaction or under mental stress. please don't put this meaning to where I am a serial killer out there. It can be a simple argument. Maybe hitting someone like your wife. Now don't think I hit my wife. I am only trying to make a point.

Sky :)
I'm thinking of spontaneous reaction or under mental stress. please don't put this meaning to where I am a serial killer out there. It can be a simple argument. Maybe hitting someone like your wife. Now don't think I hit my wife. I am only trying to make a point.

as am I, and believe me, in no way did I just make you look like a criminal.

Either way, if you prefer a different example, fine, but my point still stands. Let's say you have an argument with your wife. Forgiving yourself for saying something mean to her doesnt solve anything. HER forgiveness is the only thing that will allow you to get some later, am I right? forgive yourself, and you still will be just hanging out with your hand until she forgives you too. So there you have it--a non-criminal way to show my point. Is that better?

The message is the same--self-forgiveness as a method of replacing God is, with all due respect, beyond silly. Forgiveness isnt something you can do yourself, to yourself, like you are saying. There are two parties involved--one who wronged someone, and the one who was wronged. Unless you are both at the same time, you dont have any ability to forgive yourself for the action in a way that would do anything to fix the situation.