PDA

JOIN THE FORUM LOUNGE!

By Joining The Forum Lounge you will be able to see the pictures in this thread and post a reply. Also, after 25 posts you'll be able to see the hidden forums as well!

It's free and all of your information is confidential.

Click here to begin interacting!
Click here to register

Join in on this Discussion and see the pictures. Click here-> : How Silicon Valley could become the Detroit of electric cars


BATMAN
11-07-2007, 10:42 PM
Silicon Valley is already the capital of the world's high-tech industry. Is it also becoming the Detroit of the electric car industry?

Last week's announcement by Shai Agassi, a former SAP executive based in Palo Alto, that he's raised $200 million for a company that will try to revolutionize the electric car industry is the latest sign of this region's growing role in one of the hottest sectors of the automotive industry.

That's no surprise considering California's mandate for cleaner cars, the local enthusiasm for plug-in hybrids, the Silicon Valley fascination with new technology and the number of Bay Area venture firms investing in this industry.

Agassi, who spent months studying his venture, makes an interesting observation about the valley and the Motor City. "Detroit is a car manufacturing center. I think what we're looking at is not something that can be done in a normal way. . . . It needs an Internet approach, a Google approach."

And, he said, this region is well-suited to do that. "In the valley, we know how to do technology disruption. We know how to do business models, how to develop proof of concept and get it adopted around the world," he said.

Others, even those enthusiastic about the potential of electric cars, are uncertain about how much success start-ups such as Agassi's Better Place and Tesla Motors of San Carlos can have against the huge global auto industry. General Motors and Toyota, for instance, each produced more than 9 million vehicles in 2006.

"It's not simple or cheap stuff to do," said Neal Dikeman, partner with Jane Capital Partners, a San Francisco merchant bank focusing on cleantech and energy technologies. "$100 million is the ante up to play the game," Dikeman said.

"People are waking up to the fact that this is not like software start-ups that raise $40 or $50 million, and then have IPOs," said Darryl Siry, Tesla's vice president of sales, marketing and service. "This business is capital intensive."

Agassi acknowledged that "massive investments" are required to begin the transition from gasoline engines to electric-drive autos. He calculates the total cost for every affected industry at a staggering $6 trillion a year.

Still, he said, it's worth it: "The first carmaker to field a solid electric vehicle at scale will enjoy benefits that will dwarf the success of the Prius for Toyota."

Why electric cars? Among the reasons: the rising cost and possible scarcity of oil, growing worries about pollution and global warming, and developments in technology that will make batteries more affordable.

And using the power grid for transportation will be more affordable and more environmentally sound, electric-car proponents argue. That's especially true as governments require utilities to get power from renewable sources such as solar, wind, water and geothermal.

Agassi has computed the economics of oil - prices are above $90 a barrel - and concluded that electricity is the only answer for future personal transportation, because gas will be too expensive.

"Whether Shai does it, or someone else does it," he said, electric cars are inevitable.

His plan calls for Better Place to partner with carmakers whose products will use the company's batteries and charging/swap stations. If consumers commit to a long enough contract for power, Agassi argued, they could even get cars for free - just like with mobile phones and service plans.

It all makes perfect sense to Stephan Dolezalek, the senior partner who heads VantagePoint Venture Partners' cleantech portfolio in San Bruno. He's invested in both Better Place and Tesla.

He sees a future where electric vehicles serve as city cars while bigger vehicles, such as SUVs perhaps burning ethanol or biodiesel, are used for longer trips and carrying more passengers.

He uses an analogy of a barbecue's propane tank to describe where Better Place fits in. While you used to have to wait in line to get your tank filled, now you just swap an empty one for a full one.

"Think of electric cars and batteries the same way," he said. "You own the car, and the battery comes packaged with the fuel."

Ron Cogan, editor and publisher of the Green Car Journal and a longtime industry consultant, acknowledges the progress being made with battery and electric-drive technologies. Still, one fact stands out - "batteries are very expensive," he said.

"You have to realize that it's just potential until we start seeing real products on the market," he said.

Tom Gage, who works two days a week in Sunnyvale, knows how long it take to create a successful electric vehicle company. His 15-year-old AC Propulsion, which tests and builds electric-car parts such as motors and battery-management systems, began delivering a handful of electric eBox vehicles earlier this year. It's a boxy Scion xB sedan converted into a pure electric car that can go 150 miles on a full charge. It costs about $70,000, Gage said - $15,000 for the Scion, and $55,000 for the conversion.

He's optimistic about the momentum being generated by Tesla and Better Place, but cautiously so.

Look at the trajectory of hybrids, he suggests. The Prius came out 10 years ago, and Toyota has sold 1 million of them worldwide. About 500 million new vehicles have been sold in the same period.

"And that's with something that's been fairly well accepted and acclaimed," he noted.

It's clear that the electric auto industry is in its infancy. None of the big automakers sells a pure electric or a plug-in hybrid in the United States.

Yet both Elon Musk, Tesla's chairman, and Agassi forecast tremendous growth for their ventures. With initial testing beginning in 2008, Agassi predicted Better Place could have 100,000 cars on the road by 2010. Musk has said that Tesla's third model, which would cost about $30,000 and go on sale after 2010, might reach "100,000-plus" sales.

Whether it'll be these Silicon Valley companies, other start-ups based elsewhere or the world's big automakers selling electrics remains unclear.

Still, venture capitalist Dolezalek does ask the question: "What if you take something that has always been designed in Detroit and you moved it to Silicon Valley, how would you do it different?" Both Tesla and Shai Agassi are trying to answer that question.

Manntis
11-08-2007, 01:18 AM
Good article. I just got back from PHEV2007, Canada's first symposium on hybrids, electric vehicles, and grid issues and with three conference rooms full of experts, there were a myriad of opinions on all related topics.

BATMAN
11-08-2007, 10:20 AM
Yes, alot of opinions, very little true expertise on the topic. Much in terms of conjectures about this and that.

wotnartd
11-08-2007, 11:30 AM
How will this all affect you, BATMAN?

BATMAN
11-08-2007, 12:49 PM
I have a company that I started with a few friends that is aimed to improve efficiencies in the double digits for IC engines.

Sorry I won't give more info on the technology until we have the patent filed (soon) and pending at the very least.

Say No To Pistons
11-08-2007, 01:25 PM
I have a company that I started with a few friends that is aimed to improve efficiencies in the double digits for IC engines.

Sorry I won't give more info on the technology until we have the patent filed (soon) and pending at the very least.

Says the asian that owns 3 gas guzzlers.

Manntis
11-08-2007, 01:31 PM
Says the asian that owns 3 gas guzzlers.

:rofl:

well, I own a gas powered RX-7 even as I'm building an electric one...

wotnartd
11-08-2007, 02:00 PM
I have a company that I started with a few friends that is aimed to improve efficiencies in the double digits for IC engines.

Sorry I won't give more info on the technology until we have the patent filed (soon) and pending at the very least.

I wouldn't want any trade secrets, I was just curious. You won't sell out to Big Oil, will you?

wotnartd
11-08-2007, 02:03 PM
:rofl:

well, I own a gas powered RX-7 even as I'm building an electric one...

It all evens out.

rtryb2200
11-08-2007, 08:12 PM
So what are they going to do in 10 years when all of these batteries become junk? And it seems that there is no exact figure on what the cost of replacement batteries for all these hybrids is going to be. Although I am probably just misinformed

JOIN THE FORUM LOUNGE!

By Joining The Forum Lounge you will be able to see the pictures in this thread and post a reply. Also, after 25 posts you'll be able to see the hidden forums as well!

It's free and all of your information is confidential.

Click here to begin interacting!
Click here to register