Let's say you have an S4 T2. It's bone stock, mechanically ok, except for the usual: Needs exhaust, has sagging springs, that type of thing.

Then, let's say you have oh, $6k or so to put into it...

What would you do?

I'd list my goals, first :)

stretch it into a limo.

I'd list my goals, first :)

Just general all around improvement, you know, fun-to-drive, that kind of thing.

I know one of the first things would be the RB turbo back. I'm trying to explain to somebody how you can make a budget "killer" out of a T2, but then I figured I'd bounce it off you guys.

FMIC, Haltech (E6S or E6X), exhaust (most likely RB), suspension (all bushing too), and replace what ever needs to be replaced in a FC to make it somewhat reliable or daily drivable.

FMIC, Haltech (E6S or E6X), exhaust (most likely RB), suspension (all bushing too), and replace what ever needs to be replaced in a FC to make it somewhat reliable or daily drivable.

I totally agree with this list but I'd maybe move the FMIC down on the list.

Well, for the price of a good FMIC, the Haltech, and the RB exhaust, I could probably go LT1/T56.

You can only hit around 10-11 psi with a TMIC, right?

Just general all around improvement, you know, fun-to-drive, that kind of thing.

I know one of the first things would be the RB turbo back. I'm trying to explain to somebody how you can make a budget "killer" out of a T2, but then I figured I'd bounce it off you guys.

Didnt you see my thread on RX-7club about what I did to mine for under $1500? :P


ZEMS, RB turboback, TO4E compressor on ported S5 turbo\manifold, S5 TII manifolds, Volvo FMIC, 1600cc secondaries, walboro fuel pump, CAI that doesnt involve the AFM, and some form of boost controller.

#1 azeni RT615 on 16x8 +25mm ish ($2-300 + 600 or so)
#2 quality coilovers (stance, kts, etc.) ($1200ish)
#3 rotors pads lines and bleed ($3-400)
#4 cheap but decent performance exhaust ($3-400)
#5 *full* suspension refurbish aka bushings, subframe bushings, new tie rods, new LCA ball joints, etc. ($mad expensive)
#6 corner weigh and alignment ($80 + $2-300)
#7 seats, cage, harness, used steering wheel and hub (seats and cage will be quite a bit)
#8 full tune up. replace all wear items like belts, hoses, filters all around, etc. ($500 or less... won't be that bad)
#9 wash, clay bar, detail and wax ($50 DIY)
#x rear steering eliminators (pick your favorite brand)
#x2 any cheapo boost gauge ($20)

seats, cage, and suspension refurbish will run through most of your budget. my strategy is always to start from the ground up. essentials are always #1 tires. #2 brakes. #3 suspension. basically in order of contact with the ground and (imo) driving satisfaction (hence seats and wheel). power comes dead last, way after reliability. but that's just my philosophy.

Didnt you see my thread on RX-7club about what I did to mine for under $1500? :P

No. Got a link???


ZEMS, RB turboback, TO4E compressor on ported S5 turbo\manifold, S5 TII manifolds, Volvo FMIC, 1600cc secondaries, walboro fuel pump, CAI that doesnt involve the AFM, and some form of boost controller.

What the hell is a ZEMS?

Just general all around improvement, you know, fun-to-drive, that kind of thing.

I know one of the first things would be the RB turbo back. I'm trying to explain to somebody how you can make a budget "killer" out of a T2, but then I figured I'd bounce it off you guys.

Shit, late last year, I just did a 100% drag and road course ready 1st gen for a little over 4k including the price of the car. 4 month build. It started with a bet against a friend and I only went over the 4k cap because over a wheel and tire swap. caged, t2 swap, haltech, 62mm turbo etc. You won't get any good advice form these dipshits on this forum. There isn't a single fast rx7 on this site.

#1 azeni RT615 on 16x8 +25mm ish ($2-300 + 600 or so)
#2 quality coilovers (stance, kts, etc.) ($1200ish)
#3 rotors pads lines and bleed ($3-400)
#4 cheap but decent performance exhaust ($3-400)
#5 *full* suspension refurbish aka bushings, subframe bushings, new tie rods, new LCA ball joints, etc. ($mad expensive)
#6 corner weigh and alignment ($80 + $2-300)
#7 seats, cage, harness, used steering wheel and hub (seats and cage will be quite a bit)
#8 full tune up. replace all wear items like belts, hoses, filters all around, etc. ($500 or less... won't be that bad)
#9 wash, clay bar, detail and wax ($50 DIY)
#x rear steering eliminators (pick your favorite brand)
#x2 any cheapo boost gauge ($20)

seats, cage, and suspension refurbish will run through most of your budget. my strategy is always to start from the ground up. essentials are always #1 tires. #2 brakes. #3 suspension. basically in order of contact with the ground and (imo) driving satisfaction (hence seats and wheel). power comes dead last, way after reliability. but that's just my philosophy.

Is this post a joke?

If he was worried about resale value, he'd have gotten a muscle car.

get an FD...FCs have no re-sale value, you're throwing your money down a rat-hole

of course, any performance mods are a losing investment, but FDs are in demand

Who said anything about selling it? I know I didn't. Jesus Christ, just stay on topic for once in your life. Just one time, go with the thread instead of against it.

I don't have a link :O I'd have to dig it up

What the hell is a ZEMS?

Zeal Engineering MegaSquirt

It's a standalone ECU, we build them to plug straight into your stock harness.

I don't have a link :O I'd have to dig it up



Zeal Engineering MegaSquirt

It's a standalone ECU, we build them to plug straight into your stock harness.

Why would anyone want to keep their ratted out stock t2 harness?

go with the thread instead of against it.

But that wouldn't be a crusade! Oh NOEEEEEZ!!

Is this post a joke?

i was pretty wasted last night...

honestly i don't even remember typing that.

although i do generally work on cars in that order, although i try to get things done all at once instead of a piece at a time.

-i'd still do tires, brakes, suspension and general maintenance. coilovers would be overkill. alignment is still a good idea though.
-cage/seats/harness would be pretty pointless for just a fun weekend car. i don't know why i put that in there. i'd still do the steering wheel because i've always felt the FC steering wheel is uncomfortably big.
-i'm guessing i threw in the exhaust because he said he needed one.

besides that i wouldn't do much else. save the rest of the cash for a rainy day.

here a shot i snapped with my phone.

1981 base
all gsl-se suspension,hubs brakes etc tokikos, rb springs
t2 swap
aeromoptive a1000 fuel pump home made sumped tank
aeromotive 13209 fpr
720's/1600's
ar61r
hks ss manifold
hks wastegate
haltech e6k
npr intercooler
pinion snubber for a mustang

all this shit can be found cheap used. Obviously, injectors and pump should be bought new.

My cage cost me less than $500 dollars with material. A local guy measured, cut and bent all my tubing, i welded it together.

:smacktalk:

What do you guys think about the different BNR upgrades? I'm thinking of upgrading turbos, and it looks like they all would bolt up to the RB exhaust.

What do you guys think about the different BNR upgrades? I'm thinking of upgrading turbos, and it looks like they all would bolt up to the RB exhaust.

You can buy an ebay manifold, ebay w/g, and a decent used turbo for and all plumbing for a bit more thana bnr. It'll cost less than maybe $150 in vbands, material, and welding to mate a racing beat downpipe to a turbo kit.

I had my turbo changed to a 4 inch vband outlet and think I spent $400 on my magnaflow muffled 4 inch exhaust.

Why would anyone want to keep their ratted out stock t2 harness?

Hey, some people's stock harnessess are fine. I've worked on more RX-7s then I can remember, some are fine, some are not.

However, you don't HAVE to keep the harness.

Personally, I would recommend this one for $53: http://www.rs-autosport.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=5&products_id=229

I got one very similar to that for my S5 'vert.

For $6000 I would probably go LS1, but if you wanted to have some money left over for other bits, a gen III based 5.3 or 6.0 liter truck engine would cut down on costs significantly.

A modified turbo rotary thats 15 years old is most likely going to be a time bomb, so once you factor in a rebuild plus all the other go-fast parts, you could have just swapped it to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, I still have respect for the rotary, but if you're trying to get the most out of your money, I think there are better options. Plus if you do a good job on it, you could probably sell it for as much or more then you put in to in...which would be much more difficult to do with the rotary.

I disagree with everything the above post says.

EDIT: (Except the part that a Gen III engine will save you money over an LS1)

I disagree with everything the above post says.

I figured you would...but please, elaborate.

I didnt elaborate due to the fact a lot of it is speculation and opinion :P


A decently cared for rotary tends to retain lots of compression, they're actually very reliable little engines. I've seen many modified turbos go over the 175K mark on the original engine while still holding 100psi on all faces. They don't just magically explode out of the blue.

Why do they explode? 9 out of 10 times, its because the turkey tuning the thing has no clue what (s)hes doing.


As for your $6000 LS1 swap; selling it and getting what you put into it? I wouldn't lean on that.

You can get a rotary up there with a few simple parts, for my TII it was simply an exhaust ($800 full turboback from RacingBeat (and thats the expensive one)) an intake ($10 from home depot) 1600 secondary injectors ($89 used from RX-7club) and a TO4E turbo on the stock S5 manifold (You can probably make one for $500, less if you search around, I got this one for helping a guy tune his car). I grabbed a good aftermarket fuel pump for $100.

A lot of these expenses remain the same with the swap (You STILL need an after market fuel pump, exhaust, intake, whatever) to complete your swap.

I slapped a MegaSquirt on there (About $150 for a kit, if you don't mind building it yourself, $450 for the first batch of ZEMS), and a few other parts (Volvo intercooler ($25, with all the lines I'd ever need), ported intake (free), Innovate Wideband ($200 with sensor, but I don't recommend these to ANYONE, I've had FOUR Innovate units fry)

I had tons left to upgrade the suspension, the sound system, the tires, etc etc.

As far as value goes, I think by putting an ls1 in the car makes it appeal to a wider group of people. LS1s are very well respected engines, as are rx7s cars...LS1FCs tend to go for quite a bit more then their rotary counterparts. I wouldn't count on getting your money back selling it, but I think you'd have better luck with that then with a rotary.

As far as weather or not the rotary will hold up, I still think its kind of a crapshoot...I guess its that way with any engine, but rotaries seem to be most sensitive to bad treatment. Not to mention one tuning mistake or fuel delivery issue or overheating could mean the end of that engine. Shit happens when you are racing and beating on the car frequently.

I know you can make some pretty decent gains pretty cheaply with the rotary, but a stock ls1 is no slouch, and gaining more with that isn't exactly hard either.

I just said thats the direction I would(and did) go if it were my car...I think my car is 10 times more fun to drive with all the torque and no turbo lag, takes all the beating I can throw at it, makes 500whp without breaking a sweat, gets better gas mileage then it did with the rotary, and didn't lose any of the good points it had before.

This discussion probably won't ever end though, agree to disagree, its more up to what appeals to the owner of the car anyway.

dude ita all about buying the parts right. I'd put my single turbo t2 swap against 80% of the ls1 swaps I see. I literaly spent a week to 2 weeks worth of income buying used ass shit and modifying/reconditioning to my tastes. I have less than his budget in the whole car including the price of the car. I placed 3rd at my first drag event with the car on a fucking all season. i'm gaining 35 mph between the 1/8 and the quarter. And the car hasn't even seen over 12psi yet.

Does the ls1 swap create a better car? Hell yes. Is it cheaper? No way.

My buddy has pennies in his car as well- for over 420 whp.

Heres us at the track, me smoking that 2700lb brick.
http://www.racingperspectives.com/cgi-bin/store/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Bret_Kepner_Photos/Sport_Compacts/GIR_2006-09-19_Tuesday&image=BKS6-09-19_052.jpg&img=40&tt=&tfile=tn_BKS6-09-19_052.jpg

^^agree'ed if you know what your doing you can build one fast rotary rx7 without much money.

I did get one other real gem of advice: Trade the T2 and some money for an already modded T2... Odds are, you're going to get a lot more for your money that way, and most of the headaches are already taken care of.

I did get one other real gem of advice: Trade the T2 and some money for an already modded T2... Odds are, you're going to get a lot more for your money that way, and most of the headaches are already taken care of.

or you inherit some idiots disaster.

OK, if I'm searching around on Ebay for turbos (Yes, stay away from TurboXS) for ideas, what A/Rs am I looking for? Right now, I'm on stock ports and on the prowl for the RB exhaust. If/when the motor pops or gets too tired or whatever, I'll go with a street port or half bridge. Meddle, what am I looking for?

OK, if I'm searching around on Ebay for turbos (Yes, stay away from TurboXS) for ideas, what A/Rs am I looking for? Right now, I'm on stock ports and on the prowl for the RB exhaust. If/when the motor pops or gets too tired or whatever, I'll go with a street port or half bridge. Meddle, what am I looking for?


af61r/bw s362 whatever you want to call it.

:bsflag:

I haven't had it on a dyno, so I guess I can't say that for sure...don't see how you can raise a BS flag when you don't have any idea what my set-up is...

I think the rotary's hot exhaust and the fact that turbo rotary's are tuned rich is pretty hard on wideband sensors. My innovate was acting kind of funny the last few times I used it on my rotary, but so far, so good, on the ls1. I got it because it was cheap and the one I got came with the XD-1 gauge that I put in my dash. There are deffinatly better things out there...but for the money, it works.

I haven't had it on a dyno, so I guess I can't say that for sure...don't see how you can raise a BS flag when you don't have any idea what my set-up is...

I think the rotary's hot exhaust and the fact that turbo rotary's are tuned rich is pretty hard on wideband sensors. My innovate was acting kind of funny the last few times I used it on my rotary, but so far, so good, on the ls1. I got it because it was cheap and the one I got came with the XD-1 gauge that I put in my dash. There are deffinatly better things out there...but for the money, it works.

I don't think he is tlaking aobut using up sensors. Personally, i'll never change form plx m500 after using one. i've used ziet, plx 300, innovative and nothing is like the m500. I do want to buy the new fast unit though and give it a whirl.

Hot exhaust is easily remedied with a heatsink:
http://www.diyautotune.com/images/wb-hs-3729/wb-hs-3729.jpg


And most well "tuned" rotaries don't run that rich except on low RPMs and beyond stock boost. But they ARE super super hot.

It's not the SENSOR that keeps dying on me, it's the LC-1 itself. In many different applications. Then the LC-1 being dead causes the sensor to quickly die.

where do you have it mounted?

do you drive in inclement weather?


Are you retarded? Why would it matter where the controller is mounted?