The United States of America is the only industrialized nation that denies evolution

Dominionists (who call themselves 'Evangelical") experience upswings in popularity when the economy is severely depressed. The Great Depression, the current trend of manufacturing jobs going overseas, etc.

Many claim to be attempting to "return to Christian values", but do so through unique interpretations of the bible that seem tailored to mesh with certain aspects of American culture; imperialism, materialism, and corporatism. How many of these same born-agains are found in, say Europe? or Africa?

The greatest beach heads for this sort of thinking is in areas where people have experienced what seems to them the "end of days". The closure of steel mills auto factories, etc where one was once guaranteed high paying jobs with good benefits packages, but now those plants sit empty. They're disenfranchised and know that not only are those opportunities gone for them, they're gone for their children as well.

The majority of born agains, like most Christians, are decent, earnest people but, full of despair, look for something to give them hope - even if that means turning to a mysticism based on the bible but with bits added or distorted to make them feel superior. Witness Mark's repeated "you'll burn in hell and I'll be laughing" mantra as an extreme example.

The necessity to marginalize other groups; women in the workforce, homosexuals, etc. (varying from sect to sect). This is a common theme of disenfranchised groups, whether born agains bashing gays, militant feminists mocking men for 'inherent male weaknesses', some black groups blaming everything on whitey... and one of the uglier sides of humanity. It seems easier to ridicule others to feel better about one's self than to look within and find true empowerment.

Interestingly enough, in countries with universal healthcare and strong local and federal social services, such despair is greatly lessened and born-agains are a far smaller minority.

The extreme religious right receives a lot of corporate support. At first this seems odd, until you realize that Bush only became 'born again' when this group became larger than Catholics in terms of voter turnout. Supporting the group means a built-in base for politicians and big business alike. An 'insider' club that has nothing to do with religion and supplants the 'old boys network' smashed by women and minorities who have been truly empowered.

What concerns me about this is an obvious parallel - This is not the first country in which industrialists have backed the government, and both have encouraged people to follow distorted ideas. Hitler's Germany, Moussilini's Italy, and Fanco's Spain all did the same. It's a disturbing trend.

Discuss.

all the talk about how we need a strong leader slides stalin and mao into the picture too.

Fools can't make the distinction between true science, and fairy tales created by (and for) atheists.

As opposed to fairy tales for Christians?

Bottom line, Mark, nobody knows. It's ALL theory, including the Bible. No one was there, no one can prove it, and it can't be re-created.

Life is a miracle. I don't need to know how it happened to appreciate it.

nothing like making up "quotes" to dramatize your jacked up liberal agenda, eh manntis?

one small problem there, jack--he didnt make that up. This forum is filled with examples of you telling people how you're gonna walk on their grave and smile, how you cant wait for their judgment, how they will bow at your feet, how death is coming for them and you cant wait....I could go on all damn day. The fact is you cant lie your way out of this one.

nothing like making up "quotes" to dramatize your jacked up liberal agenda, eh manntis?



You have to be shitting me....Marky either you have the shortest memory or you are that dumb. Your constant 'Ill walk on your grave' etc spew is like a broken record daily.

You really do suck sometimes. If you would put half of the energy of being a buttwipe on this forum to actually imporving your personallity you wouldn't be so 'alone'....Wise up claptrap, you really need to pacify that ego of yours....if not I'm sure God will do it for you....remember Job?

Fools can't make the distinction between science and fairy tales.

True science IS a fairytale.

that is quite different from saying I'm going to laugh at someone in hell, which I never said

Pardon me, but youre a fucking idiot....

1--"I'll walk on your grave and smile"

2--I'm gonna laugh at you in hell

There is not very much difference at all between those two statements. Stop being a douche bag and take some fuckin responsibility like a man for once. Either that, or shut your ass up in the first place--if you didnt make such ungodly sinful statements to start with, this discussion would not possibly even exist right now. But you didnt think of that, didya??

fuckin retard

my enemies

having enemies is REQUIRED.

if he didn't have any enemies he obviously isn't trying hard enough, the more enemies he has the better he is at following the example of god, who CREATES enemies when he runs short of people who hate him.

huge difference

I will smile when my enemies (like you) are buried, but God is the judge, and I won't be laughing at anyone in hell, I'll be thankful I'm not there myself


Obvious you need to way His path a little bit better....

Matthew 5:43-48 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shall love thy neighbor, and hate your enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


Face it mini man, you have a long way to go. Your hatefull comments, both posted and PM'd have your ass in a sling.

Wise up bub.

enemies in this world are part of the test



that is what I said, required.

how can you love your enemies, if you HAVE NO ENEMIES ?

how thoughtful of your god to provide you with such an abundance of enemies to practice loving.

practice for heaven ? :D

if I had any respect for you whatsoever, I might listen...as it is, I consider both you and jonnie demons from the pit...mr. adultery (and you are living in sin right now)

run along

Of course you would put your sentiments about me above the word of God. Its like I have continually said, your ego is costing you spiritually.

Regardless of who posted anything, the fact is this is from the Sermon on the Mount, and it is His words. Would you rather burn for spite or for praise His glory?

Looks like you would rather put your feelings about me over Him…who’s being liberal now???? :roll:

“But God, I wouldn’t listen to Your word because I didn’t like the person who quoted you….”
Poor excuse. Wittle marky got his wittle feewings hurt. :nopity:

Again mini man, check you priorities....or you will be completely spiritually dead. And, I could care less about what you call me because you are just as guilty, fornicator. Man you suck at putdowns.

paraphrase (NIV)

people (usually hacks) love to quote this verse in rebuke (ignoring their own foul stench), but the fact is loving your enemies is an extremely high calling, which is a mark of perfection


Cop out, so don't even try then, lets see how far you get Ego man.

If it can be proven that Yeshua did not rise from the dead, then I"ll accept an old earth. The way I see it, if Yeshua rose from the dead, then whatever science says about anything does not matter in least compared to any word the messiah says. Something in the message of the Bible has gained my attention such that my conscience convicts me of the truths it tells.

I ask this question: what is more necessary for the individual, determining if there is a God or determining the origin of the universe? Which knowledge is of more value?

The way I see it, if Yeshua rose from the dead, then whatever science says about anything does not matter in least compared to any word the messiah says. Something in the message of the Bible has gained my attention such that my conscience convicts me of the truths it tells.

zombies lurching around predicting the slaughter of humanity, fails to capture my conscience

paraphrase (NIV)

people (usually hacks) love to quote this verse in rebuke (ignoring their own foul stench), but the fact is loving your enemies is an extremely high calling, which is a mark of perfection

nothing but an excuse--EVERYTHING that God commands of the "chosen" is an extremely high calling--this is nothing but a copout on your part. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it, no?

easy, hard or otherwise, there is one simple fact here that you cannot avoid no matter how hard you try:

God has laid out the rules that the "chosen" must follow. He didnt say "love your enemies, but only if you feel like it"....He has set forth His commands! The faithful are supposed to obey those commands, regardless of how "high" that calling is. If you cannot fit the mold, you are not chosen. It is that simple. God didnt make following those rules optional for His flock--of which you claim to be. And while everyone falls short, the fact that you use that as an excuse to be the way you are is absolutely NOT approved by God, according to the bible itself.

You claim to be chosen....well, God would only choose those whom He created to obey, while those whom He created not to obey are not chosen. So, if you really are chosen, you are bound to obey. There is no getting around that, no matter how many smokescreen excuses you try to throw out there.

is this a profane demon "preaching"?

yes, yes you are.

you just replied to what I said, and then told me that no one reads my posts....

way to be a hypocrite...

"'the wisdom of God is foolishness to those who are perishing"

it is GOOD for me to let the king zombie eat my brain. not.

no, you're straight out of hell, psycho jonnie

you are WASTING your time, no one reads your crap


Well its plain to see that you read it....so I guess you are a 'no one'. (We all knew that anyway. )

But sky does bring up a good point, then you are plainly guilty of what you claim we all do; that is pick and choose which scripture to follow...

So you pick and chose what posts to read and also liberally pick and choose what scriptures to follow.... doesn’t that bother you that you deny Christ in that manner? See there is a pattern to your behavior, we all see, and hell is rejoicing in your decisions.

Face it mini man, you are no 'elite chosen' one and have hardened your heart for some reason with the Spirit.

if you just thanked God, that would be an awesome beginning

I thank MY God (and Goddess) for everything, Marky. And, again, I believe that the same power that is behind my stuff is part of the same power behind yours.

Again, couldn't a power which can create the skies, mountains, oceans and stars be powerful enough to be all things to all people?

the two are inextricably linked...if you don't believe what the Creator says about His creation, why would you trust Him anywhere else? that's just lip service Christianity, which is why I'm convinced those who deny Genesis are self deceived (i.e idolaters, they worship human wisdom)


Correct!!! I whole heartedly agree. The significance of life is found in the answer to the question of "Is there a God?". If you disagree with my statement then you must submit that your life is ultimately meaningless.

is this the same guy who mocks Genesis?


Again you are an idiot, I never mock Genesis. I just don't share the same interpretation that you do....

Get it in that dim witted skull of yours, we have been thru this several times....its like talking to a f'n retard with you, you can't remember jack and you probably are sitting around digging shit out of your pants that you just crapped. Quit eating buggers and grow up there mini man.

And you claim to be a college graduate and an engineer? Your stupidity shines thru.

is this the same guy who mocks Genesis?

well, youre the same guy that refuses Jesus in favor of a sinful man's actions from Psalms...so who are you to bitch now about anyone?

just keep telling yerself, marky--"its ok to wish people dead....its ok to wish people dead..."....After all, you readily admitted earlier that God set a very high standard with "love your enemy", right? BUT THAT MEANS YOU AGREE THAT HE DID SET THAT. And still, here you are, deliberately going against it for the sake of your own ego and anger problem....

may I kindly ask what a YEC is? Young Evangelical Christians?

did you hear about that frog they discovered today that may date 25 million years? Google it. It is legit.

http://www.uky.edu/AS/Geology/webdogs/amber/critters/frog-b.jpg

this issue is so commonly raised it's right on the home page of AIG
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

oh, yeah, AiG, the same organization that I caught lying about the actual Hebrew text and words used in the bible?

Sorry, champ, but when it comes to the bible, if you have to lie about any part of it to suit your cause, as AiG does, then you have no credibility. hence, AiG doesnt have any credibility in here, not a shred. If their position was 100% truth, as it is claimed to be, then they wouldnt have to lie or make things up about any point, regardless.

http://www.uky.edu/AS/Geology/webdogs/amber/critters/frog-b.jpg

what the hell is in my beer??

referring to the pic above: doesn't look any different from a modern frog, hence the delusion of Darwinism

that animal was rapidly encased in flood sediments about 4300 years ago

proof?? Dont just guess like you know it all, prove it.

Matter of fact, you are already wrong. It is trapped in amber, which has absolutely nothing to do with flood sediments. Amber is the fossilized remains of tree resin. That is not flood sediment. Sorry, but no go. This animal was rapidly encased in TREE RESIN.

Due to its rarity, the owners will not allow any tests including discovering it's age and origin by means of penetration. So it is subject to suspect.

I guess there are a collection of these spread across the world. The newest find was in Mexico.
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/Paleontology/FossilsAndFossilisation/AmberFossils/AmberFossils/amber8b.jpg

you claim everyone lies, but you're irrelevant to anything

dont be an ass--you know damn well it was proven. In the thread, you were trying to argue the supposed interchangeability of two words in Hebrew, when it was clearly shown that they were not interchangeable. In the process, you tried to use an AIG link to prove your case, and upon my researching it, it was discovered that the symbol that AIG used did not even exist in the Hebrew language!

Your source is intentionally dishonest, this was proven without doubt. So, if you keep using a source that is known to be full of shit, what do you think that does for YOUR credibility?? Not that you even have any anyways...but still.

that it's not different from a modern frog? that's obvious

no, I said prove it to your contention that it was rapidly encased in sediment 4300 years ago....when in fact, you have already been proven wrong because sediment is not what that frog was encased in, not even close.

Now, if it was a BlueShot, that would be something...the blue 'amber' is supposedly the most sought after...

?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/13/Spaceblue2.jpg/200px-Spaceblue2.jpg

Christ believed that..."in the beginning He created them male and feamle",

Thats female, learn to spell, no wonder your all alone at 40 yrs old, you've been looking for a 'feamle' and not a female.


:blah:

mini man just got caught in his own yap trap, psuedo logic!

I've absolutely BURIED your moronic concept that the creation was "millions of years" or the flood of Noah's day was "local" with numerous scriptures


LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR

You never proved crap, and I have poseted more credible evedance than you have.

And we caught you in scripture about your view point nad how it is wrong...

LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR


And the only scream that will be heard is yours in when you are shown that you were WRONG!

You are a delusional FOOL.

Thats female, learn to spell, no wonder your all alone at 40 yrs old, you've been looking for a 'feamle' and not a female.


:blah:

mini man just got caught in his own yap trap, psuedo logic!

hang on, he's still 39...wait, arent ya? Well, isnt his birthday this month anyways?? ah well, youre a lonely old fart, marky, sucks to be you...:bigthumb:

the Laws that govern the universe show you this is wrong...the Laws of Pysics are precise, they are not flexible, and not subjective...the Creation is one of precision, from the universe outside to the universe within, and atomic structures

creation tells you God is a God or order, precision, and beauty...God's law is not subjective, any more than the laws of physics are subjective, and God provides One Mediator between God and man, the Man Christ Jesus

"there is no other name given to men by which we must be saved"...and there is no other Word aside from the Word of the God of Israel, for 3500 years on this earth

Creation is not a Law. And, Creation can be done by any massively creative power, not just the one of the Bible.

Hence me saying that it's all THEORY, Mark. You have your theory, I have mine. Odds are very, very good that both of us are wrong.

Thats female, learn to spell, no wonder your all alone at 40 yrs old, you've been looking for a 'feamle' and not a female.


:blah:

mini man just got caught in his own yap trap, psuedo logic!


And it's spelled pseudo, you wanna-be spelling Nazi. ;)

If you're gonna correct someone, check your own shit first. :D:D:D

this issue is so commonly raised it's right on the home page of AIG
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

And, again, find us a fucking source that isn't a pro-Christian website.

We've already proven that AIG will pick and choose their info to suit their purpose, blinding people like you from fact, trying to lead you to "truth".

And it's spelled pseudo, you wanna-be spelling Nazi. ;)


Crap I could care less about spelling, its just marks MO to correct every spelling error out there, thinking that it makes him feel smarter.

Now, if it was a BlueShot, that would be something...the blue 'amber' is supposedly the most sought after...

'BlueShot' amber? Never heard of it, wheres that from the hills of NC?

We've already proven that AIG will pick and choose their info to suit their purpose, blinding people like you from fact, trying to lead you to "truth".

...as befits the movements I mentioned in the genesis of this thread.

'BlueShot' amber? Never heard of it, wheres that from the hills of NC?

Not the hills so much, I think it is more urbanized than that. Rumor has it that it only comes from the Charlotte area....

And, again, find us a fucking source that isn't a pro-Christian website.

We've already proven that AIG will pick and choose their info to suit their purpose, blinding people like you from fact, trying to lead you to "truth".

thing is they believe that anything that disagrees with whatever they believe the bible says is, at best, totally wrong and at worst an active lie designed to snare souls into hell.

censorship is absolutely a core attribute. "speak no evil."

the only way in is to show them that their understanding of what the bible says is flawed, which it is or they would be able to explain it exactly.

in christianity reality lies !!!!!

satan has god given supernatural powers to create 100% real lies specifically to make people think things that aren't in the bible.

evil thoughts like "this person who I am paying to tell me what the bible really means is full of it. "

so the problem is that reality cannot be used as a check on the {flawed} understanding of the bible.

if satan wants to maintain nuclear decay rates as a constant while we can measure them so as to fool generations of 'wise' for the glory of god, reality lies.

the study of the origin of the universe is a whole different level

the universe happened/is happening we see the effect with greater precision as we figure out better what we are looking at.

radio decay "ages" (in terms of rock dating) are useless

and you KNOW this because satan can , at will, change the atomic composition of any sample to really show whatever he wants it to, right ?

faith in what is the question...I don't put my faith in men that are here today and rotting corpses tomorrow

you DO put your faith in your understanding of what the bible says.

spiritual discernment that is Truer than any possible observations that are ALL subject to satanic manipulation.

satan has zip to do with it

wrongo, eh ?

satan is the current ruler of the planet, antichrist is just him coming out of the closet so jesus will have a clear target when it's his turn to take over.

show me little green men, I'll say the Bible is wrong

bull.

your understanding of the bible was wrong.

the BIBLE cannot be wrong.

it will turn out that a catholic copyists error ommitted the crucial mention of the little green men in revilation or such.

and you KNOW this because satan can , at will, change the atomic composition of any sample to really show whatever he wants it to, right ?


If you believe that satan runs around and changes atomic matter in this sense then you are really a lost cause and might as well believe in the tooth fairy. Holy crap some one has sold you a line of goods....dont drink the kool-aid.

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/95whitepep/koolaid.jpg

correct, God cannot be wrong

but I will never deny provable science, either

I live comfortably and confidently with both realities firmly intact


How can you believe any provable science if you think satan changes matter?

You are a FOOL baldy. And you reality is close to delusional.

again, I will never deny provable science

show me little green men, I'll say the Bible is wrong

so.....if we paint you green, this will all be a moot point??

jeez dude, you need to calm down. You are acting like a guy that took out a 133K mortgage on a home in the month of April, only to find that you paid too much!!

Take a chill man....seriously...

so.....if we paint you green, this will all be a moot point??

jeez dude, you need to calm down. You are acting like a guy that took out a 133K mortgage on a home in the month of April, only to find that you paid too much!!

Take a chill man....seriously...

Yea he is acting like his house is backed up against apt/condos/townhomes and they have been keeping him up all night with the noise....

Sad that your not invited to those parties marky?

How can you believe any provable science if you think satan changes matter?

that does seem to be an either/or situation.

particularly for someone who believes in Absolute Truth.

I can imagine the disappointment when he first realized that the Absolutly True Word Of God is a TRANSLATION and so NOT the ACTUAL Word, but really, really close to the Actual Truth.

modern english translations are excellent

excellent, sure, perfect, no.

"it's either 100% right or 100% wrong" sound familiar ?

another topic we've been through countleess times

and you ALWAYS miss the point because you think I am trying to make the point that icr tells you I am making.

so you refute THAT point all smugly and totally miss the point I am trying to make.

it sorta depends on the use the translation will be put to.

for instance translating "the Right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." into spanish

translate the Constitution into spanish and you do NOT end up with a copy of the Constitution, you have an APPROXIMATION of what the translator THINKS the Framers might have written if they had written it in spanish.

you guys are sick in the head

well, now why would you say such a thing?!?....

How can you believe any provable science if you think satan changes matter?

I DON'T believe that! your reading comprehension sucks

if you believe satan exists, he has 2 attributes

1 satan has a mandate from god to mess with our physical reality
2 satan is given supernatural powers by god to carry out his mandate.

if you believe god exists he has one attribute

1 no physical constants exist, everything is created by gods whim.


toy with my usage of "attribute" or deal with the Truth. :40oz:

it's mainly an issue of less than the best word choice....english isn't the best language, either

mainly.

the problem is that although you KNOW the word is chosen poorly, even though entirely because of the lack of the proper word in the language itself, you CANNOT know WHICH word nor how poorly it fits.

you might spot a really obvious misfit through the context but subtilities are obscured by the gross misfit of the change of language.

for example, is it a description of a beautiful sunrise, or is it a translation of channel 10's weather forcast ?

how can YOU tell, without the original for comparason ?

the ONLY thing you know for sure is that it is NOT exactly the same as the original.

the accuracy of the translation is ENTIRELY dependant on the understanding the translator has of the original.

because the translator is EXPLAINING what the original says.

he is describing, NOT QUOTING.

so ANY translation of the bible is no more the Word Of God than a book review of the bible would be.

an amazingly accurate review is still just a review and not a quote.

For example, "40 days and 40 nights" - when the word taken to mean "40" meant "many".

Another example, "young woman" being translated as "virgin".

or "poisoner" translated as "witch".

^^^^
I've never denied His power, I just believe that God is methodical, and does things in a methodical way.
Why are you so obsessed with what I think? Sounds gay to me.

You are a fool marky, go drink some more koolaid and relish in your blissful ignorance.

people are full of excuses of why they cannot believe God's Word....

most everybody would have no problem with Gods Word, it is believing that YOU hold Gods Word that flips everybodies "No Way" Switch.

http://weirdweirdworld.com/images/b3b735627a388bf12a539527da62c26d.png

honegod, you've painted God as some bloodthirsty monster from your first posts on rx7club, years ago...and it's clear you held that belief for most of your life

only since I started reading the grownups version of the bible instead of the illustrated versions where the Flood is a story about a fun boat ride, instead of a story about the mass murder of humanity.

:bowdown: :screwyou:


most people build mental fortresses or error by the time they're in their teens

yah, it took me until my mid 20's to figure out that there were people who ACTUALLY believed in those fairytales.
'till then I KNEW no grownup could POSSIBLY be that stupid.

believe me, I'm not...I hate everything you say, superhack

as usual, babbling hypocrite, the very things you accuse me of are true of yourself...YOU came here as an antagonist, no one invited you...you even admitted you were here because of ME...I was here a year before you showed up

get outta here



no, YOU are a fool, lacking any discernment whatsoever....you have also admitted you haven't even read much of the Bible

Idiot I was here at Jul of 2005...check my join date....that’s 5 months before you ...

I have never admitted that I was here because of you, I'm just sick of your yap trap....because that is further than the truth.

You are so gay its pathetic... :gay2:

And BTW, I have never admitted I haven't read much of the bible...
Show me where.

You are lying again, and are delusional with false witnessing.
LIAR!

Shall I tell you when I got my first bible from bible study class???
SECOND GRADE....

STFU, mini man, you make no sense.

take the cross and the fish symbol out and insert Darwinism (ape-man symbol?)

So you think Judaism is litter? Interesting...

3rd grade grammar again
Better to have third grade grammar than your third grade mentality.....

Go change you daddy's diaper.

So you think Judaism is litter?

well duh, they killed jesus, and don't worship him at ALL.
the ONLY thing judeasm has going for it is it is made up of jews, a race that god loves above all others.

I don't need to, your ignorance speaks for you

and you have previously admitted you don't know much about the Bible



agreed... while I'm making 100% accurate statements about your useless mind

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j298/skydivr7673/markyhouse2.jpg

.

they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

that's what I said.

"the ONLY thing judeasm has going for it is it is made up of jews, a race that god loves above all others."

I don't need to, your ignorance speaks for you

and you have previously admitted you don't know much about the Bible

agreed... while I'm making 100% accurate statements about your useless mind

You know what marky you can play your little game, but everything you have said is pur speculation on your part.

You are a fool. And again a liar.

a "fool" for the Truth....standing tall above the heretics

a fool for the truth would not spend as much time boasting and bragging about himself and worldly possessions as you do. A fool for the truth wouldnt ignore that truth no matter who points out your errors to you just to feed your own ego. And a fool for the truth wouldnt be caught in so many lies as you have.

That means that you are a fool all right, but not for any truth. And the only way you could stand tall over anyone is if the hole they stood in were deeper than yours.

a "fool" for the Truth....standing tall above the heretics

rather bowing, hiding your face, seeing only what is spiritually revealed instead of what is seen.

if you look at what is seen you will be distracted from what is not seen.

standard off topic rant from the demon

off topic doesnt include a post that replies to your "on-topic" post, moron...you have to do better than that. You cant ignore your sins amd just hope they will vanish...."we are all laid naked before Him to whom we must give an account", remember???

I do not ignore my sins...you do that

I wonder if you can make through one post without calling me a name

right...."demon" comes from you all the time...more hypocrisy, I see?

If you didnt ignore your sins, every time tofu publicly said something about your actions you would face them instead of making every excuse in the book....or, even better, you wouldnt try to use the scripture improperly to attempt to justify your sins. there you have it....

blah blah

off topic


thats the answer I expected from the guy that constantly runs away from his errors, pointing a finger over his shoulder as he goes....you dont have anything more humble, more real to say than this?? I thought you were a representative of God?

I don't have anything to say to you that hasn't already been said

post on topic, drop the agenda...no one cares

when you drop your agenda of hypocrisy and self-perceived superiority, I will follow suit. hell, this isnt even about staying on topic--you just cried like a bitch in that other thread even though he was on topic with his thread! So get a clue

you'll post the same foul diatribe until you drop dead of cancer

hopefully, that day is soon

werent you just warned not too many days ago that a comment like this would get you another vacation??

Apprently, you really are as stupid as I thought....

God created weeds

and yet they allow you to post here anyways....

God created weeds

and only a monster considers children to BE weeds.

and then psycho man joined the forum (because of me), invited by Dennis

lies? uh huh

dennis never invited me. As you would recall if you possessed any honesty whatsoever, dennis and I cant stand each other

as you would also recall if you had any honesty, my first post here defended your sorry worthless hypocrite ass. Which, by the way says something about one of your earlier statements tonight. you said if I left you wouldnt have any reason to be angry anymore...well, you sure were being a little bitch to zero and others in that thread before I even joined over here....so again, youre full of shit

but dennis hated me more, and he knew what a parasite you are

lies

it has already been shown that he did not invite me, dipshit. whats your next excuse?? And whats your excuse for the other lies you told tonight, like how you being a prick is all because of me?

I have the PM's from the people that did invite me....notice I said "people"...and dennis was not among them. Not that I have to prove shit to a washed up roid boy dickless hypocrite freak with the receding hairline...whats it like to be so insecure about being bald that you wear a hat everywhere you can?

you'll post the same foul diatribe until you drop dead of cancer

hopefully, that day is soon

Mark...

Mark...

Mark...

TIME OUT CHAIR!

For those of you who do not believe the Bible's account of creation, what is the best explanation for the creation of the universe? Big Bang? What caused it? I'm waiting! It's awful quiet. You've got nothing. The only hope you have is to realize you have no hope.

start with nothing, fracture it into +1 and -1 so you STILL have zero but it is a lot more interesting.

with +1 over here, and -1 over there other bits of nothing get inspired to shake out generating an increasing bubble of simulated thereness THAT STILL ADDS UP TO THE ORIGINAL NOTHING.

For those of you who do not believe the Bible's account of creation, what is the best explanation for the creation of the universe? Big Bang? What caused it? I'm waiting! It's awful quiet. You've got nothing. The only hope you have is to realize you have no hope.

heres a thought for you--next time, when youre waiting, press the 'submit reply' button FIRST. That way, everyone would know that you asked a friggin question, and they would know there is something you want answered. When you havent posted it yet, and then you complain about waiting, there is probably a reason for that....When youre a smartass, you get smartass answers.:bigthumb:

anyways, I happen to agree with a lot of what you post, but you dont need to act like marky in the process. Thats the message in my smartass reply.

For those of you who do not believe the Bible's account of creation, what is the best explanation for the creation of the universe? Big Bang? What caused it? I'm waiting! It's awful quiet. You've got nothing. The only hope you have is to realize you have no hope.

You know what, bx7? I don't think ANYONE knows. It's all theory. Including the Bible's account. Nothing can be proven, and, until someone can create a time machine (snicker), it will never be known.

it will never be known.

I disagree, my silly theory has the advantage of being provable by simply creating mass/energy out of nothing.

see hawking radiation, and zero point energy.

If it can be proven that Yeshua did not rise from the dead, then I"ll accept an old earth.

:roll:

Start with proving he ever existed in the first place.

The way I see it, if Yeshua rose from the dead, then whatever science says about anything does not matter in least compared to any word the messiah says. Something in the message of the Bible has gained my attention such that my conscience convicts me of the truths it tells.

So you don't care about reality and prefer to live in an inflexible dream world based on predetermined belief. Nice. :rolleyes:

The significance of life is found in the answer to the question of "Is there a God?". If you disagree with my statement then you must submit that your life is ultimately meaningless.

No on both accounts.

welcome back, bx...nice to see someone in here again with a mind

:roll:

For those of you who do not believe the Bible's account of creation, what is the best explanation for the creation of the universe? Big Bang? What caused it? I'm waiting! It's awful quiet. You've got nothing. The only hope you have is to realize you have no hope.

:roll:

Why don't you outline specifically what it is that you object to so we can all have a good laugh. I'm sure your understanding of physics is as pathetic as your understanding of biology.

No on both accounts.

Let's say there is no God. You live, you die. There is no significance. All judgement becomes relative.

Let's say there is no God. You live, you die. There is no significance. All judgement becomes relative.

I'm not seeing a problem yet. Why do you assume there is significance? :scratch:

Why don't you outline specifically what it is that you object to so we can all have a good laugh. I'm sure your understanding of physics is as pathetic as your understanding of biology.

I don't have a an objection. The smartest brains in the study of the origin of the universe are still stumped and they have less empirical evidence to put their hands on then the evolutionists.

I'm not seeing a problem yet. Why do you assume there is significance? :scratch:

Am I wrong with my direction? I thought you were answersing "no" to my point that if there is no God then there is no significance to existense. Where are you?

I don't have a an objection.

From your post it sounds like you do.

The smartest brains in the study of the origin of the universe are still stumped and they have less empirical evidence to put their hands on then the evolutionists.

Agreed on both accounts (though for different reasons obviously). So what? They should stop the inquiry because they're stumped?

Am I wrong with my direction?

Probably. ;)

I thought you were answersing "no" to my point that if there is no God then there is no significance to existense.

Significance is relative. I don't believe there's a directed purpose to our lives, but that hardly makes them insignificant.

Where are you?

Where we all are. :)

From your post it sounds like you do.

Agreed on both accounts (though for different reasons obviously). So what? They should stop the inquiry because they're stumped?

No, No, by all means, I'm all for it. I want the truth.

No, No, by all means, I'm all for it. I want the truth.

It doesn't sound like you do. It sounds like you want "Truth" on your own terms.

It doesn't sound like you do. It sounds like you want "Truth" on your own terms.

True "Christianity" is opposite your statement, it's about finding The Truth, then following it, and casting off your own terms that get in the way.

You have a nasty habit of attacking the people making statements instead of the statements themselves.

True "Christianity" is opposite your statement, it's about finding The Truth, then following it, and casting off your own terms that get in the way.

Fantastic. Never let a little thing like reality get in the way once you've found "The Truth". :rolleyes:

You have a nasty habit of attacking the people making statements instead of the statements themselves.

Do I now? Or maybe I just call a spade a spade.

Fantastic. Never let a little thing like reality get in the way once you've found "The Truth". :rolleyes:

Again, same to you

Do I now? Or maybe I just call a spade a spade.

Or you only treat people nicely based on their acceptance of your beliefs.

Aren't us "Christians" supposed to be the ones claiming that title?

Again, same to you

Whatever. If there were credible evidence for belief I'd believe. There's not, so I don't. *shrug* Your absurd beliefs have blatant contradictions with observed reality. You can't expect people to not call you on them.

Or you only treat people nicely based on their acceptance of your beliefs.

Right. I'm the one that requires people to accept my beliefs to treat them appropriately. Oh the irony. :roll:

If you think I hold you and BX7 in the same regard as Mark, or treat you the same you're wrong.

Aren't us "Christians" supposed to be the ones claiming that title?

You do. The proselytizing is very annoying. Unfortunately you guys feel that it's mandated, and ONLY your beliefs are right. It's a vicious cycle.

You do. The proselytizing is very annoying. Unfortunately you guys feel that it's mandated, and ONLY your beliefs are right. It's a vicious cycle.

And again, same can be said to you :P

And again, same can be said to you :P

If you say so. I don't require you to buy into my "beliefs". But I'm also not going to stop pointing out blatant falsehoods based on distortion of facts or ignorance.

If you say so. I don't require you to buy into my "beliefs". But I'm also not going to stop pointing out blatant falsehoods based on distortion of facts or ignorance.

Same here.


And I say, all the better. The if The Truth really is The Truth then it had better be able to stand up to honest inquiry and logic.

The if The Truth really is The Truth then it had better be able to stand up to honest inquiry and logic.

Agreed. A literal interpretation of Genesis doesn't.

if The Truth really is The Truth then it had better be able to stand up to honest inquiry and logic.

the problem is that religious Truth is ARBITRARY Truth based solely on the whims of the gods.

so finding the Truth is simply finding out what those whims are and nothing else.

Truth might BE absolute, but Human Understanding, is not, and cannot ever be, Absolute.

so we do not have access to absolute truth.

nope, we have copies and translations, no original Words whatsoever.

what you have is FAITH that what you have is close ENOUGH to the original that god will give you credit for trying hard.

shall we look at his record for rewarding "almost right" ?

textural criticism...

a way of comparing copies to themselves in an attempt to GENERATE an approximation of the UNAVAILABLE original document.


New Page 1
Through a process called textural criticism, the Bible has been reassembled. Modern Bible translations, like the New International Version, are accurate to ...
www.tedkarol.com/ted/christian_apologetics.htm

this here is a really good approximation, almost positivly very close to the original, virtually all of the really big messages are translated with admirable precision and a very low tolerance for errors.

textural criticism...look it up

right, like the fuckups in AiG? Like the words they claimed were in the original text that dont even exist? How's that for 'textural criticism"??

face it--you dont have any way whatsoever of KNOWING what was in the original text. honegod hit it on the head--your faith is that a particular translation is correct. Nothing more.

And as for that particular translation, we all have seen the errors in it. it has already been pointed out to you. So much for what you claim to have faith in.

AIG is not the Word of God, they are scientists who make errors

The "Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy" correctly notes:

Since God has nowhere promised an inerrant transmission of Scripture, it is necessary to affirm that only the autographic text of the original documents was inspired and to maintain the need of textual criticism as a means of detecting any slips that may have crept into the text in the course of its transmission. The verdict of this science, however, is that the Hebrew and Greek text appears to be amazingly well preserved, so that we are amply justified in affirming…a singular providence of God in this matter and in declaring that the authority of Scripture is in no way jeopardized by the fact that the copies we possess are not entirely error-free…Similarly, no translation is or can be perfect, and all translations are an additional step away from the autograph. Yet the verdict of linguistic science is that English-speaking Christians, at least, are exceedingly well served in these days with a host of excellent translations and have no cause for hesitating to conclude that the true Word of God is within their reach.

While you can’t handle the original documents today, you can have confidence that most English Bibles faithfully represent what was contained in those documents. God has providentially preserved His Word for subsequent generations despite the best efforts of many of His enemies to eliminate it.

http://www.gty.org/resources.php?section=issues&aid=176343


EXACTLY ya dumbass....they make mistakes just like ANY PERSON DOES.

This is the point that you have been sidestepping for years now. The bible was written by human hands, and there is no guarantee whatsoever that those hands did not make any errors. Also, you seem to have no problem quoting AiG as valid factual proof for anything under the sun, but you now admit that they fuck up their stuff? What does that say about your credibility each and every time you used them, then? You continue to use them today even after their glaring failures are obvious.....

touche, pussycat....:bigthumb:

all the modern english translations are excellent, despite what ignorant skeptics may claim....they understand nothing

I prefer the NIV and NAS

excellent, maybe....but PERFECT? 100% CORRECT? the 100% actual true word of God? What is your proof of this? how can you prove beyond doubt that they are 100% on the money?

There is only one answer--you can't. And when it comes to your eternal salvation or damnation, why settle for anything less than perfection? Why rest your soul on "excellent" when that isnt the 100% actual word? I am looking for your thoughts on those questions, not alternatives.....

obnoxious, foul, perverse, warped....destined for certain destruction

you're truly worthless in every respect

maybe so....but at least I wont have to spend my life bald, alone, and in a pink house and car.....your destruction is coming just as anyone's is, and that IS your life....

2 Peter 1

We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him.

And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

God speaks....every human mouth babbling error will be silenced

marky, youre an idiot....you cannot use the bible itself to prove that the bible is 100% factual. Think about this--

you are arrested and charged with murder. You get on the stand at your trial and say "I didnt do it". That alone is worthless. You need evidence, facts, proof, to support "I didnt do it".

This is no different.

YOu cannot say with 100% factual proof that the words as they appear in the bible are precisely what came from God. any of those authors could have changed the meaning, even unintentionally! And you have absolutely no way to 100% prove otherwise. That being said. using a verse to prove that all verses are 100% factual is retarded.

It all goes back to what honegod said earlier--you have FAITH that it is correct, but you do not have any way to 100% prove it is. Stop pulling shit out your ass to try to sound intelligent, it clearly isnt working.

:eek:

God has nowhere promised an inerrant transmission of Scripture

the true Word of God is within their reach.

While you can’t handle the original documents today,

you can have confidence that most English Bibles faithfully represent what was contained in those documents. God has providentially preserved His Word for subsequent generations despite the best efforts of many of His enemies to eliminate it.

the Word of god is inerrent, if it is inerrent it MUST be the word of god.

if it is NOT inerrent it is not the word of god.

if the inerrent word of god was within their reach then the original documents would be within their reach, since ONLY the original documents are promised inerrency.

the original inerrent documents are nowhere to be found.

the documents available today are NOT promised to be inerrent by god, they are promised to be inerrent by the anonymous person who claims to have copied the original inerrent documents.

1 Kings 13 (King James Version)


14 And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am.

15 Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread.

16 And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place:

17 For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest.

18 He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him.

19 So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.

20 And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came unto the prophet that brought him back:

21 And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee,

22 But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the Lord did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers.

23 And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back.

24 And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase.


the inerrent word of god versus what somebody else says is the word of god.


why do you believe these prophets who claim to write in the name of god when god himself has NOT given them the authority to do so ?
and their work is clearly not inerrent ?

if they WERE god authorised then their copies WOULD be promised inerrency, they are not.

there ARE no inerrent Word of God available to mankind in general at this time, anything claiming to be so is some stranger inviting you to lunch.



is there someone who might give a better rebuttal than " god hates you " ?

inerrent = 99.9%

Word of God = 99.9%

a lie may be as well preserved as the truth, at least 99.9% of the time.

so, per yzf, my post is 100% accurate, my bible quote is contextual, and pertinant to the point, and none of it counts because his copy is 99.9% the same as another, non original, old testament.

http://orion.huji.ac.il/resources/FAQ.shtml

What do the Dead Sea Scrolls say about Jesus?
This is a common question asked by those not familiar with the dates of the scrolls. The body of literature known as the Dead Sea Scrolls predates the time of Jesus by approximately 80 years and as a consequence of this there are no direct references to his life and teachings.

dang, so a set of galley proofs of the new testament, signed by the apostals, COULD HAVE BEEN PRESERVED to authenticate the holy inerrency of the rest of the bible, but wasn't.

there are no direct references to his life and teachings

has much to say (prophetically)

the moslems use those same passages to prove that mohammed was the final prophet.

which rather implies that the absolute truth is strechy.

which is clearly absurd

not so clear to the millions of people who know otherwise, and will also die to defend the truth that they know with a certainty fully equal to your own.

if it is not clear, their eyes are blinded

blinded by god through His minion, satan. ok.

how ? through falsification of the inerrent Word of God.

which inerrent word you don't have either.

you BOTH have nothing more than unauthorised books CLAIMING TO BE THE INERRENT WORD OF GOD when they are exactly NOT that.

precisely what that bible passage* was talking about.


*1 Kings 13 (King James Version)


14 And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am.

15 Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread.

16 And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place:

17 For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest.

18 He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him.

19 So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.

20 And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came unto the prophet that brought him back:

21 And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee,

22 But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the Lord did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers.

23 And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back.

24 And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase.


{I will hear no mutterings about 'Context'}

note, the old testament, as used by the jews might actually be the Word, if copies are available that are tracable back to the originals, the new testament absolutely has no such tracability.

hence the NEED for the chicago council on biblical inerrency, as opposed to being able to simply point.

{neither does the koran, no autographed by mahommet first editions available there either.}