From a thread I started on Miata.net:

Back towards the end of July my 2006 MX-5 developed a bit of knock above 3k that at first I assumed to be valve tick. I dropped it by a mechanic friend of mine who told me it could possibly be a collapsed lifter and noticed it was running a bit low in oil. He added a quart as well as some MMO in it (which did quiet the noise a tad) and told me to keep an eye on it, but to definitely take it in for servicing if I was still under warranty.

I decided to wait a few days to see if the problem might sort itself out, but the noise only came back much worse. I checked the oil level to make sure it wasn't burning any and thought I noticed the level to be low, so I bought a gallon of GTX and filled it back up (which I later learned I overdid by 3 quarts, being the newb that I am). Upon starting it up one day, I noticed it kicking out an absurd amount of smoke from the tailpipes after a VERY short drive, so I parked it immediately and decided that it was time to just take it in. I had it towed to Castle Mazda in Silver Spring for the issues it was having, and was pleased to know that I still fell well within warranty (car was at around 38k) so I left it overnight for diagnosis.

A few days later, I get a call back from the rep that I left it with stating that because they found my car overfilled by 3 quarts that they weren't sure that I would still be covered under warranty, and they would now need proof of my regular servicing in order to proceed on work with my car, since the knocking I first thought to be harmless was discovered to be rod knock and things could get expensive. I had misplaced all of my receipts from my previous changes since I had recently moved, so I took a day running around the area going to each shop I had my car worked on and obtained my car's service history to the best of my memory, but there's a gap between my 30k service that I had done and the car's current mileage of 38k that Mazda is trying to dispute as being worthy of voiding my warranty.

I'm trying desperately to find the proof of oil change inbetween this time, but I honestly cannot recall where I had taken it between 11/07 (the time of the last servicing) and now. My question for anyone here that's knowledgeable on this matter is how important finding this last receipt is to my claim? Considering I have proof of regular servicing up till 7 months ago, would an absence of an oil change for 8k really be the cause of a failing engine (if Mazda's claim for voided warranty does hold)?

Any help with this matter would greatly be appreciated, since I really don't want to get into a long drawn out battle over servicing on my only means of transportation.

wow
I'm at a lost.
get work history including inspection from your mechanic. and receipt of oil you just bought. I don't know if running a day of 3 quarts over is enough to cause a knock.

Thanks, czar.

And yeah, I just did some date backtracking according to my bank account and while I'm still trying to pin when I had my oil changed last, I did find out that I overfilled the oil on August 8 when I bought it from Advanced Auto. August 10th was when I first started the car afterwards (I had a DJ gig that I was trying to get to) and noticed the smoking issue. I turned the car around after less then half a mile and parked it, not driving it at all after that point. On August 14th, I took my car in for servicing via tow truck.

When I talked to my mechanic friend about the knocking issue and he added MMO, that was back at the later part of July (I want to say either the 19th or the 26th). So I'm quite certain I couldn't have been the one who caused the problem initially.

Edit: I also just found out that the newer Miatas have solid lifters instead of hydraulic, so there's pretty much no chance in hell that my initial sound could have been anything other then the starting phases of rod knock.

I would think Batman should be involved. that crazy guy seems to influence people to run after tires down the freeway.

8k with out an oil change won't cause a knock, 15k or better yes. Running to low on oil for to long will cause a knock.

So, just to recap my defense on this matter (if it has to come down to this):

7/26/08 - Take car in for alignment issue to a buddy mechanic, ask about the ticking at 3k RPM as an afterthought and he assumes the worst. Checks oil level and sees it reading low (due to the car's habit of needing to be left overnight for an accurate reading) and adds a quart as well as some MMO just in case to try and bring it back up to level and try to soothe the issue if it was really minor. Tells me that I should see my dealer ASAP about warranty coverage, since it could very well be burning oil. I decide to give it some time to see if the issue would fix itself. (mistake on my part for not just taking it to the dealership right away)

8/8/08 - Noise comes back, I rechecked the oil to see if any had burned off and thought it to be low (due to the car's habit of needing to be left overnight for an accurate reading), so I go to Advance Auto to buy some and gradually added a gallon in hopes of raising the level back to full in fear that the engine had consumed much of it. It STILL wasn't at full when I added all of it, but I decided not to risk dumping in any more. I just wanted to put enough in to make sure it could be driven into the dealership without totally nuking the engine running bone dry. Had plans to take it in that Monday for servicing.

8/10/08 - I start up the car for the first time after the oil fill to try to get to a DJ gig and it kicks out smoke. I drive it for less then half a mile before I notice the car pulling a "Spy Hunter" smoke screen behind me, so I turn around and park it at home to arrange plans to have it towed to the dealership. The car still drove and ran as usual (noise and all), but the massive amount of smoke was definitely an indication of further problems. Car is not started at any point after this for fear of doing any more damage.

8/14/08 - I have it towed in for service.

Mazda service rep wants to claim that it could be due to not having a regular oil change service done and asks for proof of all oil work done from start to current, and I provide valid proof of all changes at shops up till 30k. My car is currently at 38k and I can't find the receipt for the oil change inbetween 30k and it's current mileage.

Mazda service rep then suggests that more proof is required, since the 8k it went without a change could have been the issue, but the service manual says in clear print that the recommended change interval is every 7500 miles. Therefore, they're essentially claiming that 500 miles over without an oil change is what caused this problem, and it's potentially my fault if I cannot provide proof. I've mostly used my car for getting to and from work at Catholic University in DC to Hyattsville, MD (roughly a 4 mile drive round trip) and in Silver Spring, MD to Hyattsville, MD (roughly a 10 mile drive round trip), so I sincerely doubt it could have fallen into any extreme stress in that time.

Another defense they have is that the 3 quarts overfilling is potentially what caused or further agitated the engine trouble, but I now have proof that the oil addition was recent as of 8/8/08 and the engine noise was around well before this date. Unless starting and running a car 3 quarts over for less then half a mile under normal driving conditions could cause the beginnings of total engine failure, this doesn't seem to hold up too well to me.

I do realize I'm not without fault in this matter, but I do wish to prove that it was not by my doing in that my issue came to be.

Take it to another stealership or call a lawyer.

Take it to another stealership

+1

If its got a rod knocking they have to yank the motor under warranty, bottom line whoever the claim guy is from Mazda that works for that dealership is a dick and a corporate slimebag. It will cost them next to nothing to replace that motor, he's just being a good little company man and giving you shit over 500 miles. Explain to them you are an avid Mazda enthusiast and have been for years and this type of behavior from the company may cause you to rethink your purchase of a vehicle later down the line. Just my 2 cents.

Id tell them also from talking to people on the MANY Mazda forums you frequent that you wouldnt have expected such treatment. Drop a hint that you like to talk Mazda on the internet, they dont want any more bad experiences on the web. It could turn into a site like this:

http://www.mychryslersucks.com/

or

http://www.daimlerchryslervehicleproblems.com/

If its got a rod knocking they have to yank the motor under warranty, bottom line whoever the claim guy is from Mazda that works for that dealership is a dick and a corporate slimebag. It will cost them next to nothing to replace that motor, he's just being a good little company man and giving you shit over 500 miles. Explain to them you are an avid Mazda enthusiast and have been for years and this type of behavior from the company may cause you to rethink your purchase of a vehicle later down the line. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks, Rev. I definitely feel less worried about being covered, especially after today's update from when I went back to the dealership:

So I decided to pay the dealership a surprise visit in hopes of catching the service guy a bit offguard with providing my receipts. He had called out for the day, so I ended up speaking to another service guy about the car. After a long wait, he ended up asking the service manager about my car to see if he had heard anything about it. My car issue was new to him, so he had the mechanic who was working on my car come in and talk to him about the progress on the matter.

They're still waiting to hear from Mazda on whether or not my car falls under warranty still, but he checked something in their system and came to the conclusion that on paper my car DOES infact still lie well under factory warranty. It seems the main focused issue here is that this problem was due to a untimely oil change history (the whole overfill issue hasn't even been spoken on or brought up outside of that one time I was told it seems).

There was a time between my oil change @ 24662 (5/29/07) and 30221 (11/21/07) that seems to suggest to the mechanic as an absence of proper care. This added with the lack of proof of my oil change from 30k to my current 38k mileage is now what appears to be the main argument for warranty voiding. They're still waiting on word from Mazda as to what their final decision will be regarding the matter, so it's still up in the air as to how this will progress, but I was told by the Service Manager as well as the service rep that they really don't see why this would not fall under coverage.

In the meantime, I really won't know any word as to when my car will be fixed till at least early September when their new Mazda service guy is hired, I'm told. Guess it's public transpo and a few days of tension waiting on a verdict for me.

Also, funny you should mention the internet forum idea. I did some researching late last night to see if there were any other NC miata owners who may have had this issue, and look what I found...

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=208746&page=1&pp=25&highlight=bearing
Having you briefed into these...last monday out of the blue and whilst in heavy traffic I noticed a cracking rattle from the engine , not the engine bay THE ENGINE itself...

other facts:
No power loss
the noise was present without gear in
was not heard at idle, but wen revving from 1000 upwards was obvious...

Next thing I took the car to a local dealership and ...they told me that the connecting rod or piston is gone. (cause I am not sure for the term I atach a picture from http://www.carbibles.com to be exact)

meter went up as we argued for long while they moaned that I was pushing the car too far, was recless, and that it probably wont come of the warranty as its a fault caused from my "bad driving" !!!!


http://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.php?p=1938030&postcount=35

I have been told they feel its an engine problem that might be a mx5 weakness hence they have the mazda team coming out to fully look at what failed


http://www.miataforum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=196211
So apparently my engine suffered Rod Knock.

I was without the car for a month

Technician could not tell me what caused it. However they said that Mazda has reported groups of mx5's with this same early on failure and they sent my dealership a new engine free of charge. Theres actually a bulletin sent to dealerships about this from what i was told

My car was made on 9/05

The new engine drives like butter, the old one always had kinda of a chainy feel to it.... very metal on metal

I'm in love all over with this car again...... It's by far the most enjoyable car I have ever owned....regardless of my troubles i'm still a diehard NC fan... Can't get enough of em.


And when did I buy mine? 11/05 as an '06 model...

I hope it all works out. Dealers are certanly bad for trying to get out warranty. Is it the same dealer you bought the car from.

What colour was the smoke?

If this is a somewhat common problem see if there is a technical service bulletin on it. Some parts places like parts source or advance or what ever is down there, sometimes have Mitchell or AllData for customers to use, if there is a TSB it will be on there. It also wouldn't be a bad idea to look up the book time too as well as the warranty time, just in case they want you to pay.

Dealers seem to really care about customer service. So make some noise.

Make noise to Mazda, specifically.

Dude that is absurd. There is no way that failure to change oil over that period of time would cause catastrophic engine failure. Surely Mazda isn't stupid enough to even begin suggesting something like that.

Shit, I got the oil changed in my Audi last week, and they window sticker says "Next oil change: 14000 miles or 8/18/2009. 10000 miles or a year.

DAK, don't you work on the car enough to know not to overfill oil?

Shame.

I'd have changed my oil, added an OEM filter and claim it's what happened at a different dealership.

lol, actually no I haven't. This car has been a bit of a learning experience for me, and I now know that the dipstick in all of them isn't worth shit.

For the full story and comments/suggestions so far: http://www.miataforum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=296223&page=1&pp=25

Update:

Earlier in the week, I had learned that the original service rep who took on my ticket had either left/gotten fired, so there was a new guy handling all his tickets (thus the reason for the delay so far) and I would have to sit tight till the end of the week to see what the deal was, since the Mazda Rep who was going to look at my car had only just started on Monday and would need some time.

I just gave them a ring a few moments ago, and while the new guy was out sick today, I did manage to speak to someone knowledgable about the situation. The dealership had gotten some sort of tool to determine the engine's compression and found everything was normal there, so the idea that an engine swap is needed was no longer on the table (which most likely leans towards a valve job, as stated here).

I've still got to wait till early next week to find out when the car will be ready, but when I asked about if it would be covered under warranty or not, I was told that nobody has said a word about it not being so. They are currently working on it as if it was, and that someone would have/will call me directly to inform me if such was the case.

A tool to check the engine's compression?

Whoa.

Did they run a leak down test as well?

Woah.

Woah, didn't even think of asking them that.

I guess I'll grill the new service rep guy about it when I speak to him today/tomorrow. After all, if the initial claim was rod knock, then I def want to know in detail how the verdict changed so drastically.

50 bucks says they pressure clean the motor, tighten the rod caps and pour in 4 quarts of Lucas Oil Stabilizer.






:)

50 bucks says they pressure clean the motor, tighten the rod caps and pour in 4 quarts of Lucas Oil Stabilizer.






:)

Marvel's Mystery Oil IMO.

Greatest snake oil in the world, Ive run that shit in my 12A forever.

My vehicle runs purely on SeaFoam and Marvel's

Ahhh the old seafoam treatment, pull the vac hose to the brake booster and stick it in the can. Good for smoking out the neighborhood.

Marvel's Mystery Oil IMO.


I think thats the same thing in Krispy Kreme donuts and KFC.....

So after another few days of waiting, I decided to call the service rep guy back today. Still no word on the engine getting fixed or not according to him (seems the whole compression thing was just BS and there really hasn't been any movement yet on it), and also that the Mazda service rep had just been approved TODAY to look at my car somewhere towards the end of next week. He gave me a number to call Mazda themselves for any additional info, since this all was very unusual for him, so I gave it a rang.

Spoke with a guy about my car and found out that my car has actually been denied warranty service by their Tech Service Dept for a lack of proper oil changes. According to their records that were sent by the dealership, the gap between 15,779 - 24,662 and 24,662 - 39,947 were enough to disqualify it, and that the decision now lies in the hand of the regional rep in order to determine service... WTF...

Now I suppose the biggest red flag to me on this matter was the 24k-39k claim they stated. I had provided proof of my 30k service at the end of last year to the dealership, but Mazda had no record of it. I'm assuming somehow the former dealership rep "failed" to send it in to them... I'll have to make sure the rep gets a copy of it when he comes to look at my car.

Second flag up I have on this is the intervals that disqualified me. Even if the gaps are 9,583 (+2083 over 7500) and 9,726 (+2226), I find it very hard to believe that these would be an ample reason for denial.

The Mazda did list in his notes that the car was overfilled by 3 quarts, and the smoking was due to the overfill, but he did not state it as a reason for denial... I suppose at this point, all I can really do is wait to have it out with the service guy once he looks at my car...

I see no other option but for you to go lemon law at this point.

Greatest snake oil in the world, Ive run that shit in my 12A forever.

Every fill-up I do 6 oz MMO.