To truly be a good person or that fear of eternal damnation?

Usually if you have some sort of emotional or mental issue, recovering criminal/drug addict, have trouble figuring life out for yourself, need some form of guidance or structure, or have the need to feel that there is a definite positive conclusion to life. That sums it up pretty well.

i find that to be true with the examples that I have met.

For example this TW gal that I dated that was banging a married ebony rooster.

She got religious all of the sudden....

I've found it to be true as well, and explains a little bit of the nuttiness on this forum.

Actually, the answer is quite simple: FAITH.

Think about it in a universal? standpoint. Ones choice in belief that something works.






Amiright? Correct if I'm wrong.

Usually if you have some sort of emotional or mental issue, recovering criminal/drug addict, have trouble figuring life out for yourself, need some form of guidance or structure, or have the need to feel that there is a definite positive conclusion to life. That sums it up pretty well.

There it is again, 2GR and his stereotypical view of anyone who desires to obey the Lord being a reject and a failure in this world. I'm starting to think that you need this view in order to justify working for a corporation that takes money from impoverished people in the name of profit, or is it "lack of intelligence"? It's still taking advantage of those who have not the self-discipline or material means to put themselves in reasonable housing without falling into the adjustable rate land mine. Let me guess...... they're Christian, too?

i find that to be true with the examples that I have met.

For example this TW gal that I dated that was banging a married ebony rooster.

She got religious all of the sudden....

People who seem to get religious may not necessarily harbor the Holy Spirit and truly know that they're hell-bound without Jesus Christ, as evidenced by this gal's adultery, despite her outward display of affiliation with a church.

There it is again, 2GR and his stereotypical view of anyone who desires to obey the Lord being a reject and a failure in this world. I'm starting to think that you need this view in order to justify working for a corporation that takes money from impoverished people in the name of profit, or is it "lack of intelligence"? It's still taking advantage of those who have not the self-discipline or material means to put themselves in reasonable housing without falling into the adjustable rate land mine. Let me guess...... they're Christian, too?


Too bad I don't have anything to do with mortgages, nor does my company even touch subprime paper, but nice try.

The only selling point is FEAR!

That's probably a selling point for some but not for all.

even yours.
Dont believe me? Go ahead and say 'fuck you jesus!' and dont repent.

That's not fear, czar. Would you tell your daughter that she's a fucking whore? No? Why not? Are you afraid of her? Or rather, do you not wish to damage your relationship with her simply to prove a point over the internet?

arent we talking about a make believe being or a real life girl?

Real or make-believe, it makes no difference. You stated that my selling point was fear and I proved you wrong. Don't try and change the subject now.

Real or make-believe, it makes no difference. You stated that my selling point was fear and I proved you wrong. Don't try and change the subject now.


Well it does actually, his daughter is a person that is alive and standing in front of him, with the ability to respond and/or have an emotional reaction to his words. You've never seen or met Jesus before, nor is he looking you in the eye and hearing what you are saying, nor is he going to cry in a corner afterwards, because he isn't there.

Well it does actually, his daughter is a person that is alive and standing in front of him, with the ability to respond and/or have an emotional reaction to his words. You've never seen or met Jesus before, nor is he looking you in the eye and hearing what you are saying, nor is he going to cry in a corner afterwards, because he isn't there.

Actually, it doesn't matter. He made the statement that religion comes down to fear, and supported his claim that I would be too afraid to say "fuck you Jesus" and not repent. My response was that fear does not necessarily have to factor into my unwillingness to do so. His daughter may be real and Jesus may not be, but if in my mind Jesus is perceived to be just as real as Czar sees his daughter, then the analogy works just fine.

This is all simply for the sake of argument of course, but it shows the error of wide sweeping statements, and the ignorance of those who use them.

Too bad I don't have anything to do with mortgages, nor does my company even touch subprime paper, but nice try.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

I guess it's too terrifying having to visualize giving account of your every homosexual act, prideful thought, and unkind word to the Holy Judge? You do admittedly live a rather immoral lifestyle.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

I guess it's too terrifying having to visualize giving account of your every homosexual act, prideful thought, and unkind word to the Holy Judge? You do admittedly live a rather immoral lifestyle.



No, I just have a grip on reality.

When did I admit to living an immoral lifestyle? What the hell are you talking about with homosexual shit? One of the keys to shit talking is making statements that you can back up, not just slandering someone with unsubstantiated claims.

I am quite proud though, and have reason to be. Like it or not, eat a dick God-boy. Just because you don't approve of my disposition or choice to not bow my head to Jesus doesn't give you the credentials to judge me.

One of the keys to shit talking is making statements that you can back up, not just slandering someone with unsubstantiated claims.


Agreed. Smacktalk is more effective when the comments actually hit-home.

Real or make-believe, it makes no difference. You stated that my selling point was fear and I proved you wrong. Don't try and change the subject now.

Absolutly not. No matter how you gloss over your 'buying of the ignorance' of what religion really is, because as you rationize with only used up old metaphores, you still cannot unlatch yourself of this ignorance due to fear.

Well, I'm done my exams now so if you want to go down this road again, I've got the time to oblige... but as always, you'll lose.

Absolutly not.

"Absolutely not" what? Be specific please.

No matter how you gloss over your 'buying of the ignorance' of what religion really is,

Funny how you accuse me of glossing over anything (despite the fact that I explicitly responded to your post point by point) when you are doing the very same thing here.

because as you rationize with only used up old metaphores

I don't "rationize" through used-up old metaphores. Tell me where you've seen this analogy used anywhere else or better yet, tell me how it doesn't illustrate my point?

you still cannot unlatch yourself of this ignorance due to fear.

No, you still cannot form a coherent argument. If you want to believe that religious people live their lives in fear then fine, but unless you can keep up with the discussion by actually addressing the points brought up, keep that opinion to yourself.

Tell you what, let's start fresh. Some people are religious because they feel that it enriches their lives. You might relate this to how some people exercise to enrich their bodies, or read books to enrich their minds. People adhere to religion to enrich their souls. Now, before you come back and say that the body and mind are real but the soul is not, I will remind you that this is irrelevant. Even if no such soul exists, a person might believe that it does and the desire to improve such an entity would be this person's motivation, not fear.

Religion is burdoned providing hard evidence. You didnt know you had a soul until someone told you. You didnt know there was a god until someone told you. You asked show me god and nothing was shown. You asked show me soul. Nothing produced.
That is Ignorance.
Throw that crap away. Can't why? Stupid or Fear?

Religion is burdoned providing hard evidence. You didnt know you had a soul until someone told you. You didnt know there was a god until someone told you.

Then where is it's origin, czar?

You asked show me god and nothing was shown. You asked show me soul. Nothing produced.

There are some who would disagree with you on that one.

That is Ignorance.

Perhaps it's your ignorance?

Throw that crap away. Can't why? Stupid or Fear?

You think I'm stupid?

How about Stupid, Crazy or Fear? You can be crazy, ya know.

Do you think that Buddhist's are religious because of fear?

What about martyrs czar? There was a time when Jews believed that everyone suffered the same fate, that it didn't matter what you did in this life because everyone was going to Sheol. Do you think that they endured brutal torture and murder because they were afraid?

Religion is burdoned providing hard evidence. You didnt know you had a soul until someone told you. You didnt know there was a god until someone told you. You asked show me god and nothing was shown. You asked show me soul. Nothing produced.
That is Ignorance.
Throw that crap away. Can't why? Stupid or Fear?

Religion = faith. Damn it you blind ass members religion is based on faith!

Do you think that Buddhist's are religious because of fear?

Did I say Buddhist? What do Buddhist worship? Are they a religion?

What about martyrs czar? There was a time when Jews believed that everyone suffered the same fate, that it didn't matter what you did in this life because everyone was going to Sheol. Do you think that they endured brutal torture and murder because they were afraid?

What about martyrs? Didnt they fear the alternative? fear enough to not to lose their chance to fuck 40 some odd 13 year old virgins in heaven?

Did I say Buddhist? What do Buddhist worship? Are they a religion?

re·li·gion
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

Buddhism is a religion

What about martyrs? Didnt they fear the alternative? fear enough to not to lose their chance to fuck 40 some odd 13 year old virgins in heaven?

Maybe you didn't read my post czar. Try again. There was a time when Jews believed that everyone suffered the same fate after death. There was no reward or punishment for anyone once they died. Got that?

How could their religious motivation be fear?

Actually, Buddhists do not consider Buddhism to be a religion; rather a way of life. Ask Richard Gere.

Buddhism is a religion

Buddhism is often described by some as a 'religion', but it greatly depends on what you mean by religion.

To some, a religion is an inner belief guided by a theology; a belief in a God or Gods. To others, however, the religion refers not to a faith but to the intellectual dogma and doctrine. In other words, religion could be your beliefs or your actions.

Under the theology definition, most buddhism isn't religion (remember there are three major forms of buddhism, as distinct as Sunni & Shia, Catholic & Protestant, Hasidic & Reform Jew, etc.) but under the doctrine definition one might argue it is. Loosely.

Well, since Batman asked the question, let him make the decision. Is Buddhism a religion?

Buddhism is a state of mind.

Maybe you didn't read my post czar. Try again. There was a time when Jews believed that everyone suffered the same fate after death. There was no reward or punishment for anyone once they died. Got that?

How could their religious motivation be fear?

Maybe they themselves were just afraid of death. It's not unlikely that deep in their minds they hoped that something good would happen if they served well.

Maybe they themselves were just afraid of death.

That makes sense. They were afraid of death so they elected to endure torture and murder when they could have simply recanted their faith.

It's not unlikely that deep in their minds they hoped that something good would happen if they served well.

Despite the fact that this concept of reward in the afterlife was not a factor in Judaism at this time, this still proves a problem. Ask yourself, if these people had the ability to simply make up their own eschatology and they were in fact afraid of dying, why would they not make up some alternative that would allow them to live? Why not believe that they would be allowed to break the laws of their covenant, repent, and then seek their reward? You guys are bringing some pretty weak arguments here.

Like I said, the motivation for some is most certainly fear, but you are being pretty closed mined if you believe that this applies to all.

No matter how you examine it, religion offers fear. Your mind is clouded with cream and sugar and so therefore you fail to recognise that in accordance to standard Biblical treachings, particuality in the book of revelations, that your ass is under a microscope, and if you fail to perform, you soul will be banished in torturistic Hell forever. I know you want to cut little pices of my words but golly if you read the whole thing as one, I promise you will find fear, and gee whiz write completre sentenses which is to say for you to quit fordandilying around oh and by the way i had a damn good xmas

No matter how you examine it, religion offers fear.

I've examined it in several ways that have shown just the opposite. You choose to continually stick to your guns here without offering any real insight or providing anything much in the way of an argument. Here's how I see it: you're the one who is afriad. You're afraid that there's something deeper in faith aside from fear so you come here and reinforce this absurd notion just so that you feel as though you aren't missing anything.

You come from a religious background, do you not? Perhaps you experienced a big, dramatic parting with some of your relatives?

Your mind is clouded with cream and sugar and so therefore you fail to recognise that in accordance to standard Biblical treachings, particuality in the book of revelations, that your ass is under a microscope, and if you fail to perform, you soul will be banished in torturistic Hell forever.

If my mind was clouded by this "cream and sugar" and if I failed to recognize that I am facing a "torturistic Hell forever" then it sounds like I wouldn't be living in fear. Imagine that.

I know you want to cut little pices of my words but golly if you read the whole thing as one, I promise you will find fear,

Here's the thing, I have to cut your posts into little pieces because somehow, beyond all reasonable expectations, you manage to make so many damn mistakes which I wouldn't be able to address with one single, fluid reponse. Hence the slice and dice routine. You might say that it's a product of actually responding to what another person actually wrote, so I can understande your lack of familiarity with it.

and gee whiz write completre sentenses which is to say for you to quit fordandilying around

I do write in full sentences, always have. I don't invent words however.

oh and by the way i had a damn good xmas

Wish I could say the same.

I've examined it in several ways that have shown just the opposite.
I agree however yours dont offer any realistic views except something you may find in a fictionist novel. In your case, likely soft porn.

You choose to continually stick to your guns here without offering any real insight or providing anything much in the way of an argument.
Again, the real insight is very real and right before your very eyes. It is so simple that even people with no sense of reality argue that it has to be more than no god.
Here's how I see it: you're the one who is afriad. You're afraid that there's something deeper in faith aside from fear so you come here and reinforce this absurd notion just so that you feel as though you aren't missing anything. Ummm what? It is your constant church going that requires reinforcments of your beliefs.

You come from a religious background, do you not? Perhaps you experienced a big, dramatic parting with some of your relatives?Ummmm what? People die wether they are in religion or not.



If my mind was clouded by this "cream and sugar" and if I failed to recognize that I am facing a "torturistic Hell forever" then it sounds like I wouldn't be living in fear. Imagine that. 'cream and sugar' the notion that you are not under fear.



Here's the thing, I have to cut your posts into little pieces because somehow, beyond all reasonable expectations, you manage to make so many damn mistakes which I wouldn't be able to address with one single, fluid reponse. Hence the slice and dice routine. You might say that it's a product of actually responding to what another person actually wrote, so I can understande your lack of familiarity with it.
lol

I agree however yours dont offer any realistic views except something you may find in a fictionist novel. In your case, likely soft porn.

Martyrdom has been documented throughout history, and, as far as I know, isn't all that prevalent in porn.

Again, the real insight is very real and right before your very eyes. It is so simple that even people with no sense of reality argue that it has to be more than no god.

Makes me wonder, what would hurt more, beating my head against a brick wall or reading that comment again? Considering that the latter leads to the former, I guess that makes it a tie.

Ummm what? It is your constant church going that requires reinforcments of your beliefs.

No, actually... it isn't. More than anything, what reinforces my faith is arguing with people like you. Fear doesn't factor into that either.

Ummmm what? People die wether they are in religion or not.

If you stand outside while it is raining, you are likely to get wet.

'cream and sugar' the notion that you are not under fear.

I disagree, and let's be honest, my vantage point has more merit than yours in this matter.

double post

funniest sentence ever:

"Martyrdom has been documented throughout history, and, as far as I know, isn't all that prevalent in porn."

I am only offering the fact that the Bible teaches you to fear. You cant seem to grasp that if you dont do what the Bible teaches, it says you will burn in Hell. Obviously you arent scared of that fact so therefore you are an atheist or something close. To admit to God that HE should judge you just on your niceness and allowed you to fudge His words, reveals that you yourself dont believe in the bible, thus arent a holy man but a person who likes to argue grey areas by acting dumb.

Czar, I'm not using myself here as the sole example, so even if I were an atheist or something close, it wouldn't change the fact that you are wrong. Look at the top left corner of the screen, you should notice some words there. Read them, then read them again. Now, I know that you are slow, so for good measure, read them again... maybe get someone to read them for you and compare notes. The question asks what the motivation to be religious is and all you can do is dote on the Christian Bible. Heck, even if I didn't believe the Bible word for word, I could still be religious, but you would rather just ignore this and simplify the matter, telling me that I'm either afraid or dumb.

I think you have issues.

HERE-READ-THIS-REALLY-SLOW.
To read the Bible is out of curiosity. To ignor its warnings means you simply disagree with the Bible. To become religious simply means you heed the Bible words that you will die a horrible after life if you fail to please god so therefore you are motivated to become religious.

I-think-you-better-get-johnny-to-read-this-for-you

To read the Bible is out of curiosity. To ignor its warnings means you simply disagree with the Bible.

Agreed.

To become religious simply means you heed the Bible words that you will die a horrible after life if you fail to please god so therefore you are motivated to become religious.

Sure, that can be one way to become religious, though clearly not the only way.

Queen was nice enough to provide a definition for you:

re·li·gion
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

I'm just not sure what you aren't getting here.

I-think-you-better-get-johnny-to-read-this-for-you

Why do you say that?

Sure, that can be one way to become religious, though clearly not the only way.

Agreed. Yet no matter how to get there, you engage in the fear of God.

Queen was nice enough to provide a definition for you:

I'm just not sure what you aren't getting here.

It is a definition. Never does it answers the topic question. Maybe you feel the definition answers it. Would not surprise me

Why do you say that?

Not OUR johnny. The Johnny who is your kid brother

Agreed. Yet no matter how to get there, you engage in the fear of God.

Disagree, you made the statement, now back up your claim how every single religion requires the fear of God.

It is a definition.

Really? And here I thought it was a mantra or something....

Never does it answers the topic question.

Never said that it answers the topic question, what I did say is that it clarifies the question itself, broadening its range beyond Christianity.

Maybe you feel the definition answers it.

No, what I feel is that perhaps it has the ability to help you better understand where you are going wrong here. I can show you the dots but you have to connect them yourself.

Would not surprise me

It should. You may claim that my arguments are out-there but they are not weak. That distinction appears to be yours these days.

Not OUR johnny. The Johnny who is your kid brother

Ahhh, ok. Wasn't sure where you were going with that one.

Disagree, you made the statement, now back up your claim how every single religion requires the fear of God.Not fear of God. Fear. You connected the wrong dots.

Agreed. Yet no matter how to get there, you engage in the fear of God.

I'm just working with what you give me.

Agreed. Yet no matter how to get there, you engage in the fear of God.

Might I add some clarification here?

Fear is only one point. Not everyone who worships God has to fear Him. To truly believe with all your heart that Jesus is your Lord actually brings quite the opposite--things that the "average" person might fear become nothing much to worry about. As for fear of God, you just skipped out on half of the entire message of Christ because you focused on just fear. A person who truly finds God has nothing to fear, because all of the doom & gloom things in Revelation are not for that person to experience. If you truly find God, you find nothing but hope because it is at that moment when you realize that you will be spared from all that pain. What is there to fear about that??

"Whosoever believes in Me shall not perish, but have everlasting life..."

yep, lots to fear there...:bigthumb:

+1 have to agree with sky on that one.....

The doom and gloom stuff....no way to live your life, and thats what Christ is not about.
Sorry too many people around here have been too brainwashed to think and clearly see His message.

Matt 10:27-33
Romans 3:9-18
(Proverbs 1:7, 9:10, 31:30, Psalm 111:10)

http://www.biblegateway.com/topical/topical_resource.php?source=1&tid=1809

Etc etc


Fear tends to refer also (but not totally) to reverence and respect. A lot of times people mistakenly only associate the word fear with the same fear of an abusive parent, the idea that you only fear the power, and have no respect for the person whatsoever.

I'm just working with what you give me.
I just refuse to believe that Budda is a religion.

Might I add some clarification here?

Fear is only one point. Not everyone who worships God has to fear Him. To truly believe with all your heart that Jesus is your Lord actually brings quite the opposite--things that the "average" person might fear become nothing much to worry about. As for fear of God, you just skipped out on half of the entire message of Christ because you focused on just fear. A person who truly finds God has nothing to fear, because all of the doom & gloom things in Revelation are not for that person to experience. If you truly find God, you find nothing but hope because it is at that moment when you realize that you will be spared from all that pain. What is there to fear about that??

"Whosoever believes in Me shall not perish, but have everlasting life..."

yep, lots to fear there...:bigthumb:
Jesus called himself God yet lived, shit, masterbated and died as a man. The stories of this man is too bazaar to commit fully of reasonable acceptance. Rationize beast are we to cloud over the fear as part of the recipe of religions. You can never insure you will make it to heaven.

Matt 10:27-33
Romans 3:9-18
(Proverbs 1:7, 9:10, 31:30, Psalm 111:10)

http://www.biblegateway.com/topical/topical_resource.php?source=1&tid=1809

Etc etc


Fear tends to refer also (but not totally) to reverence and respect. A lot of times people mistakenly only associate the word fear with the same fear of an abusive parent, the idea that you only fear the power, and have no respect for the person whatsoever.

Respect is a branch from the Fear root.

+1 have to agree with sky on that one.....

The doom and gloom stuff....no way to live your life, and thats what Christ is not about.
Sorry too many people around here have been too brainwashed to think and clearly see His message.

His message is front and center is the problem when it hides the memories of god murdering women/children en masse

I just refuse to believe that Budda is a religion.

There's a shock, czar rejecting something just because it doesn't support his argument.

Jesus called himself God yet lived, shit, masterbated and died as a man. The stories of this man is too bazaar to commit fully of reasonable acceptance. Rationize beast are we to cloud over the fear as part of the recipe of religions. You can never insure you will make it to heaven.

goooogle garble gungle goooobble

Respect is a branch from the Fear root.

How so? I respect people who I do not fear. I respect Howard Hughes even though he's dead and poses no threat to me.

His message is front and center is the problem when it hides the memories of god murdering women/children en masse

You've got me wondering on this one. Do you purposely try to make your posts as indecipherable as possible in order to gain some sort of edge? I mean, it's either that or you're hitting the sauce at 8 in the morning.

goooogle garble gungle goooobble

This just a snapshot of reality for our friend Ark here as his chair's molecules quamtom jumps across the event horizon.

How so? I respect people who I do not fear. I respect Howard Hughes even though he's dead and poses no threat to me.
Again, you are not clear even to yourself. Thats definitly not respect. How bout being grateful.

You've got me wondering on this one. Do you purposely try to make your posts as indecipherable as possible in order to gain some sort of edge? I mean, it's either that or you're hitting the sauce at 8 in the morning.

Connect the dots. I know you can do it.

There's a shock, czar rejecting something just because it doesn't support his argument.

It doesnt support itself. budhism is like Tai Chi Chuan. Its a way of enlightenment. Nothing to worship there. If there are worshipers in budhism then its just an agmented version of Mideast praticitis to please a God or fear some sort of random reprisal I suppose or just a bunch if idiots. Arent you a budhist?

I think I totally owned you. So for the first time only, I'll display Sky's signature :owned:

Owned me? You're barely speaking english right now. If you were a vehicle, you'd be a bicycle with one gear. You've yet to bring a single item of relevance to this discussion and when proven wrong, you resort to either mindless babble or just simply telling me that I'm wrong and not backing it up.

This just a snapshot of reality for our friend Ark here as his chair's molecules quamtom jumps across the event horizon.

You were supposed to say: "I don't understand a word you just said."

Then I would say: "Now you know how I feel."

Again, you are not clear even to yourself. Thats definitly not respect. How bout being grateful.

It's not his achievements that I respect (although those I am greatful for) but rather it is the type of person that he was.

Connect the dots. I know you can do it.

I'm not sure that there are any dots...

It doesnt support itself. budhism is like Tai Chi Chuan. Its a way of enlightenment. Nothing to worship there. If there are worshipers in budhism then its just an agmented version of Mideast praticitis to please a God or fear some sort of random reprisal I suppose or just a bunch if idiots. Arent you a budhist?

How about you post a definition of religion then, because it seems that you just like to twist and contort its meaning so that it serves your purposes in this thread.

Dots still there friend

Jesus called himself God yet lived, shit, masterbated and died as a man. The stories of this man is too bazaar to commit fully of reasonable acceptance. Rationize beast are we to cloud over the fear as part of the recipe of religions. You can never insure you will make it to heaven.

1--Jesus lived without sin. So, please, provide the evidence of Jesus "masturbating" for us. If you have none, then you have just shown why you do not get it. For you to make things up as you go like this, well, that shows your mindset. I would rather focus on the factual account rather than make it up along the way, like you choose to do.

2--The word you're looking for is "bizarre". I hardly think that Jesus, or the story of His life on Earth, were a "bazaar". Here's a tip--if you cannot use the English language like you've got an education, then dont expect others to understand you as you meant to be understood. That one's free--next one will cost ya.

:bigthumb:

3--What you still are missing here is the fact that religion is based on FAITH. It is NOT about "insuring" anything....or, more to the point, Ensuring anything. A car gets insured. A house gets insured. Somehow, I think that you were trying to say something different there. But hey, since you can do no better than to butcher the language, this is what you end up with.

Anyhoo, it isnt about ensuring. It is about BELIEVING. I dont need to ensure, or to have you feel like I ensured, anything. It is about FAITH. And faith is not a cut-and-dried thing. Faith is absolute belief despite the absence of confirming physical proof. I dont need to prove to you or anyone that I am going to heaven for my faith to be legitimate. that's the part of this that you constantly miss out on. You are looking to "prove" that which requires faith in the absence of proof. That is why you fail.

Finally, ensuring a trip to heaven is not even the last of it. Let's say that I, as a christian, are dead wrong about God. Let's say that, for the sake of discussion, Jesus was only a fairy tale. If that were true, the only thing I will have done is lived a better life because of my faith. If there is no heaven, I will still have had a better life here. BUT....if YOU are wrong....what do YOU stand to lose??

Think about that one for a while before you rattle off some anti-grammatical reply, wont you??

To harp on the fear of "what will go wrong" is to completely ignore all of the relief and peace of mind that comes with the grace of God. Both grace and wrath will not fall upon the same person from God at the same time. That said, your whole "fear" argument is wiped out. Let's simplify that a bit more for you--if I have complete faith that God will save me by His grace from hell, then why would I ever need to fear that hell? I agree that some religions use that fear. True Christianity is not about scaring people into believing. It is about showing people the awesome grace that only God provides, and watching them believe because of that grace--not because of what will happen if they dont believe. That's just it, actually---if you dont believe, then why would you believe in all the bad stuff? The wrath comes from the same story, the Bible, so if you think its all a fairy tale, then I want to know here and now why a nonbeliever would believe in only the wrath? This is reality, not your own personal buffet line to take what you choose and ignore the rest.

If there are worshipers in budhism then its just an agmented version of Mideast praticitis

You mean "aUgmented version of Mideast practicEs"?? Funny that, because Buddhism is from the far east, actually.

Connect the dots. I know you can do it.

I have a better idea. You can go back to elementary school and pass English class this time. Dont expect others to do the work of explaining your thoughts for you. This is a discussion forum, so how about you try to actually "discuss"?? And not in greek this time...

I think I totally owned you. So for the first time only, I'll display Sky's signature :owned:

You didnt own anyone...not even close. Here, let me help you sort this out.

czar's post:

blah blah blah fuggety blah, looks like it's written half in English and half in some other language....swahili, perhaps??

my repsonse:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j298/skydivr7673/yodagrammar8ug.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j298/skydivr7673/8b4ef895.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j298/skydivr7673/mosesenglish.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j298/skydivr7673/phonics.jpg

And, since this is in the religion section....you've just been:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j298/skydivr7673/owned-42873.jpg

THAT is how you do it. you cannot "own" someone when you dont even understand the basic concepts behind the topic at hand. And as of right now youre still trying to tell me what my faith is based on....not directly, no, but you have stated that all religion is based on fear. You arent in a position to intelligently discuss this topic if you think you have the right to make such claims.

(get ready, here it comes....)

:owned:

Have a nice day!!

as usual, this was an interesting topic and it went far afield with trivial/shallow minds trying to one-up eachother

Not everyone who worships God has to fear Him

Proverbs 1

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

Ecclesiastes 12

The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one Shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.

Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

Luke 12

There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.

"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

Hebrews 12

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears.

You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, because they could not bear what was commanded: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned." The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, "I am trembling with fear."

But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our "God is a consuming fire."

Philippians 2

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

I John 4

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

A person who truly finds God...

this man-centered theology displays, once again, a complete misunderstanding of Divine Election (and the Gospel itself)

John 6

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

The doom and gloom stuff....no way to live your life, and thats what Christ is not about. Sorry too many people around here have been too brainwashed to think and clearly see His message.

sad your understanding of scripture is about as deep as a puddle, and seems to amount to sound bytes from Your Best Life Now

as usual, this was an interesting topic and it went far afield with trivial/shallow minds trying to one-up eachother


It's all kinds of fun.

the "owned" tripe and mindless bickering is useless...and associated with those outside the faith

2 Timothy 2

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness, and their message will spread like cancer. Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

amen to that...why not discuss issues that really matter?

Fear tends to refer also (but not totally) to reverence and respect. A lot of times people mistakenly only associate the word fear with the same fear of an abusive parent, the idea that you only fear the power, and have no respect for the person whatsoever.

on target...

originally posted by mass extinction

as usual, this was an interesting topic and it went all to hell now that I'm back from being banned for the millionth time....

sounds about right

the "owned" tripe and mindless bickering is useless...and associated with those outside the faith

2 Timothy 2

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness, and their message will spread like cancer. Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

amen to that...why not discuss issues that really matter?

Why dont we hear you saying this when you are bragging about all the hot women you claim you can get, the salary you make, the cars you own, the new house, how much you can bench, how you can best anyone here in any test of physical strength, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc ad nauseum?

hmmmm....irony, thy name is Marky....

Those are all perfectly acceptable in your mind when YOU are talking about them. But if someone else is talking about other things, it is all "mindless tripe". How's that glass house holding up?

sad your understanding of scripture is about as deep as a puddle, and seems to amount to sound bytes from Your Best Life Now

What's REALLY sad is that you often display a great knowledge of it....on paper. But when it comes time to heed the word, youre far too busy engaging in much more important pursuits, like threatening people, wishing death on them, defending your height, and bragging about your killer fast FD...God has said that much more suffering will come to those who knew the Word and chose to disregard it, than to those who never knew Him. Let us know how that turns out for ya, big guy.



First you disagree with the notion that it isnt all about fear, and you post scriptures to prove your point. But among the verses you posed is this:

I John 4

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

These are the same basic things I was getting at--that one who walks with the Lord doesnt need to fear judgment. And you have so graciously pointed out that the scriptures echo that sentiment. Thanks for playing.

this man-centered theology displays, once again, a complete misunderstanding of Divine Election (and the Gospel itself)

John 6

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

Nothing I said was "man-centered", you dope. Thanks for putting words into my mouth. I merely said that someone who has truly found God has no reason to fear the judgment. What--because I said that a man has truly found God, that suddenly you think that means I am claiming it's all about man? Youre an idiot, marky....it IS entirely possible for a man to seek without it being "man-cenetered" you moron. The scriptures even back me up on this....

"ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened...."

welcome back from banland, Mr. Wizard. I see that your latest vacation in exile did nothing for your piss-poor attitude and fake ways.

as usual, psycho jonnie focuses on everyone but himself (the true definition of a psychopath)

listen, pervert, I've told you a thousand times, and it never sinks in: clean up your own filthy, trash filled backyard before sticking your big fat nose into anyone's else's

so...you act like a complete ingrate, behavior that goes completely against the thing you call your doctrine, and you do it all the time. Yet you dont "clean up your own backyard".....and you still seem to think that you have any business telling anyone else about how they are "outside the faith" or whatever else??

Tell you what--when you apply this same principle to YOURSELF, then come apply it to others. Until then, you just sound more and more like a retard.

First you disagree with the notion that it isnt all about fear, and you post scriptures to prove your point. But among the verses you posed is this

These are the same basic things I was getting at--that one who walks with the Lord doesnt need to fear judgment. And you have so graciously pointed out that the scriptures echo that sentiment. Thanks for playing.

well, as always, with your simple minded, knee-jerk, ham-fist style of debate, you grab one passage and run wild with it

news flash, genius: I posted the other passages because they are IMPORTANT, and the same revealed truth of God; you can't just randomly discount them like the hack you so eloquently are

the point is a relationship with God is a process of understanding and maturity, it begins with reverent awe and fear, the BEGINNING of wisdom, and it matures into a bold confidence and loving relationship (obviously, you're not even at the starting point, a babbling pervert)

this is a complex topic, and, as always, you butchered it, so I needed to school you for the thousandth time (do I get paid for this?)

thanks for losing....yet again

Mark, don't u think your simple minded, knee-jerk, ham-fist style of debate, you grab one passage and run wild with it is no different in principle?

*think about ur response or I may have some fun editing*

Proverbs 1

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

Ecclesiastes 12

The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one Shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.

Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

Luke 12

There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.

"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

Hebrews 12

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears.

You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, because they could not bear what was commanded: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned." The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, "I am trembling with fear."

But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our "God is a consuming fire."

Philippians 2

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

I John 4

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

that isn't one passage, which was my point

1--Jesus lived without sin. So, please, provide the evidence of Jesus "masturbating" for us. If you have none, then you have just shown why you do not get it. For you to make things up as you go like this, well, that shows your mindset. I would rather focus on the factual account rather than make it up along the way, like you choose to do.

2--The word you're looking for is "bizarre". I hardly think that Jesus, or the story of His life on Earth, were a "bazaar". Here's a tip--if you cannot use the English language like you've got an education, then dont expect others to understand you as you meant to be understood. That one's free--next one will cost ya.

:bigthumb:

3--What you still are missing here is the fact that religion is based on FAITH. It is NOT about "insuring" anything....or, more to the point, Ensuring anything. A car gets insured. A house gets insured. Somehow, I think that you were trying to say something different there. But hey, since you can do no better than to butcher the language, this is what you end up with.

Anyhoo, it isnt about ensuring. It is about BELIEVING. I dont need to ensure, or to have you feel like I ensured, anything. It is about FAITH. And faith is not a cut-and-dried thing. Faith is absolute belief despite the absence of confirming physical proof. I dont need to prove to you or anyone that I am going to heaven for my faith to be legitimate. that's the part of this that you constantly miss out on. You are looking to "prove" that which requires faith in the absence of proof. That is why you fail.

Finally, ensuring a trip to heaven is not even the last of it. Let's say that I, as a christian, are dead wrong about God. Let's say that, for the sake of discussion, Jesus was only a fairy tale. If that were true, the only thing I will have done is lived a better life because of my faith. If there is no heaven, I will still have had a better life here. BUT....if YOU are wrong....what do YOU stand to lose??

Think about that one for a while before you rattle off some anti-grammatical reply, wont you??

To harp on the fear of "what will go wrong" is to completely ignore all of the relief and peace of mind that comes with the grace of God. Both grace and wrath will not fall upon the same person from God at the same time. That said, your whole "fear" argument is wiped out. Let's simplify that a bit more for you--if I have complete faith that God will save me by His grace from hell, then why would I ever need to fear that hell? I agree that some religions use that fear. True Christianity is not about scaring people into believing. It is about showing people the awesome grace that only God provides, and watching them believe because of that grace--not because of what will happen if they dont believe. That's just it, actually---if you dont believe, then why would you believe in all the bad stuff? The wrath comes from the same story, the Bible, so if you think its all a fairy tale, then I want to know here and now why a nonbeliever would believe in only the wrath? This is reality, not your own personal buffet line to take what you choose and ignore the rest.

factual? Are you calling the Bible 100% factuaL? What is wrong with masterbating? Wouldn't you think the Bible left out certain details that is irrelivant to godly ways like Jesus grabbing his cock and briskly rubbing it like a snake to spit out into a cup and pass it around for all his merry men?

Yeah, my spelling is crap. Glad you all can read most of my stuff.

Little do I realize that trying to make fun of others in their profession is unbecoming of a good christian and an older role model.

well, as always, with your simple minded, knee-jerk, ham-fist style of debate, you grab one passage and run wild with it

news flash, genius: I posted the other passages because they are IMPORTANT, and the same revealed truth of God; you can't just randomly discount them like the hack you so eloquently are

the point is a relationship with God is a process of understanding and maturity, it begins with reverent awe and fear, the BEGINNING of wisdom, and it matures into a bold confidence and loving relationship (obviously, you're not even at the starting point, a babbling pervert)

this is a complex topic, and, as always, you butchered it, so I needed to school you for the thousandth time (do I get paid for this?)

thanks for losing....yet again

with the way you wrongly boast, brag, and bullshit your way around this place, you are in no position to tell anyone anything.

Not only that, but I HARDLY "ran wild" with one passage, you moron. I simply pointed out that you were just contradicted by the scripture.


news flash, genius: I posted the other passages because they are IMPORTANT

news flash yourself, dipstick--ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED AND IS GOOD FOR TEACHING.....so, in light of that verse, how can you say "I posted these other ones because they are IMPORTANT", like it makes the one from 1 John any LESS important?? You simply tripped on your pecker right there. You cannot post a bunch of scripture and then try to act like one of the verses is worth less than the others--ALL SCRIPTURE doesnt leave any such room.

the point is a relationship with God is a process of understanding and maturity, it begins with reverent awe and fear

wow, youre a retard....I never said one word to the coutrary. I simply said that when one has truly achieved their walk with Christ it is not about fear, and you just said the SAME THING, just using different words. You couldnt school shit. Get the hell over yourself.

:owned:

this is a complex topic, and, as always, you butchered it, so I needed to school you for the thousandth time

um, PSST, dickhead, I hate to break it to ya, but the error here was on YOU. You decided to put words in my mouth that didnt come out of it, and you decided to tell me what I was thinking when you arent even capable of simply reading a post for what it is. That is YOUR fuckup, monsieur, not mine.

(do I get paid for this?)

gee, I dunno, why dont we ask your boss?? After all, you still spend most of your workday on this forum when they are paying you money to actually work instead. So, let's ask your boss if he's paying you for the time you spend on here. Why dont I give him a call and see how he feels about the matter??

:bigthumb:

that isn't one passage, which was my point

An unused pencil has more of a point than you do.

The fact is this--you took a bunch of scriptures out of their context and then tried to pass them off as if they meant what you claimed they did. You are incorrect, wee-todd. You posted scriptures such as Luke 12, but you failed to mention that the words you posted were spoken by Jesus to a crowd of people who DID NOT YET WALK WITH CHRIST. They were people, as you like to say, OUTSIDE THE FAITH. And you use that as some kind of rebuttal to my earlier statement, which specifically referred to someone who was already walking with Christ?? THIS is why no one likes you, because even when speaking of the Word you dont have an honest bone in your body.

In Hebrews 12, what exactly did Moses look upon with fear?? Why didnt you tell the rest of the story? That passage is a reference to Deuteronomy 9, and the fear it speaks of is the fear that Moses felt because of how God wanted to punish the unfaithful! This is the part about the golden calf that the people made as an idol. And God wanted to wipe out those idolaters! NOT people who had a walk with the Lord--people who were worshipping a golden calf! There IS a rather large difference between those who are saved and those who either are not or who do not know it yet. your "ham-fisted" approach has tried to take the Word completely out of this context and you tried to act like it applies all across the board--it DOESNT. And not only have I showed you how, the Bible itself does.

But yeah, I forgot, "that's only one verse", right?? That's your excuse when you get owned on the Word...."its only one verse"....like that makes its value any less? Once again, I refer back to "all scripture is God-breathed".

Any more dishonesty you would like to try to visit today??

I simply pointed out that you were just contradicted by the scripture.

which is another fatal flaw in your reasoning, both in this argument and past arguments: scripture never contradicts itself, instead there are manifold truths that must be carefully reviewed with maturity and understanding, and deeper theological issues which require intense study...that let's you out right there, mr. plant inspector

the rest of your post is more of your usual antagonistic, hot-head tripe, and not worth my time to read

John, "the disciple who Jesus loved", and likely more mature in the faith than anyone, certainly knew what is was to fear the Living God

Revelation 1

I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

there was obviously a balance here between holy fear and awe and a true relationship that "casts out fear"

again, this is not a simple topic

which is another fatal flaw in your reasoning, both in this argument and past arguments: scripture never contradicts itself, instead there are manifold truths that must be carefully reviewed with maturity and understanding, and deeper theological issues which require intense study...that let's you out right there, mr. plant inspector

the rest of your post is more of your usual antagonistic, hot-head tripe, and not worth my time to read

who just made the flaw?? I said YOU were contradicted by the scripture, and your reply is "no, youre wrong, THE SCRIPTURE never contradicts scripture....."

YOU ARE NOT THE SCRIPTURE, BONEHEAD.

Just a hint, in case you werent aware...:bigthumb:

The scripture wasnt wrong, you were for the way you tried to use it out of context!

:owned:

Now, lets address Revelation, as you posted it:

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

EXACTLY. This supports what I said--a man who walks with Christ SHOULD NOT BE AFRAID, but instead that fear should be replaced with joy over the grace that God bestows!

thanks for playing!!:bigthumb:

YOU ARE NOT THE SCRIPTURE

your short term memory stinks, because you previously indicated I John somehow cancelled out the other passages

This supports what I said--a man who walks with Christ SHOULD NOT BE AFRAID, but instead that fear should be replaced with joy over the grace that God bestows!

no, it doesn't support your point at all, because all holy men of God maintain a certain fear, awe, and respect...throughout the scriptures that is documented

thanks for playing

thanks for losing while continuing to ignore your own ineptness, you're a weed

Christ never said fear me. Christ preached that people should be kind to one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, and so forth.

I find it interesting that, all too often, religious types come not from the standpoint of "God wants me to help you, so how can I help?" but from "My group has secret knowledge that your group doesn't, therefore God loves us more and you're doomed! AAAhahahahahaha!" I'm sick and tired of people ignoring what their religion actually says, and instead use it as a form of self-aggrandizing elitism.

I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

no contadiction here, Christ is the Judge of the living and the dead

your short term memory stinks, because you previously indicated I John somehow cancelled out the other passages

no, the other passages were used by you out of their context. You are the one who claimed that the others somehow superceded that one "because they are IMPORTANT", remember??

I NEVER said that the scriptures themselves were wrong--the way you tried to use them was! And I pointed that out very clearly.

no, it doesn't support your point at all, because all holy men of God maintain a certain fear, awe, and respect...

You certainly wouldnt know what a holy man thinks, feels, or does. The closest you will ever get to being one is about as close as you will get to being as tall as you always claim to be.

thanks for losing while continuing to ignore your own ineptness

you taking things out of context and then lying about it later has nothing to do with anyone else's level of ineptness, only yours.

I find it interesting that, all too often, religious types come not from the standpoint of "God wants me to help you, so how can I help?" but from "My group has secret knowledge that your group doesn't, therefore God loves us more and you're doomed! AAAhahahahahaha!" I'm sick and tired of people ignoring what their religion actually says, and instead use it as a form of self-aggrandizing elitism.

and I agree with that statement, actually, but this is a debate forum

Christ never said fear me. Christ preached that people should be kind to one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, and so forth.

I find it interesting that, all too often, religious types come not from the standpoint of "God wants me to help you, so how can I help?" but from "My group has secret knowledge that your group doesn't, therefore God loves us more and you're doomed! AAAhahahahahaha!" I'm sick and tired of people ignoring what their religion actually says, and instead use it as a form of self-aggrandizing elitism.

exactly--in revelation, as numbnuts just posted, we see the Lord clearly saying "DO NOT BE AFRAID".

and I agree with that statement, actually, but this is a debate forum


thats GREAT!!

So, at your judgment, when God asks you why you didnt uphold His Word in this place, you can use that excuse as a way to try to get out of burning!!

You can say you agree all you like, but your actions in here honestly prove those words to be empty. Believing in word is pointless if you cannot likewise believe in deed.

we see the Lord clearly saying "DO NOT BE AFRAID"

more of your simple minded, unspiritual reasoning...

it was a word of comfort to John, who was rightly terrified...an expression of relationship, but God still demands reverent awe, and it's something sadly lacking in MANY "churches" in 2008, where "Jesus talk" is a nothing more than an excuse for a social hour, with very little true worship

I recommend reading anything by A.W. Tozer on this subject

and I agree with that statement, actually, but this is a debate forum

where did Christ say "be good to others - but only at bible camp"?

You're the worst of the lot - doubly so for claiming you agree with that statement. You've lorded your "salvation" over every one here, claiming at one time or another that the majority of us are going to hell, wishing death upon forum members, even threatening to kill them yourself.

I know your fingers are itching to type what you undoubtedly think is a 'clever' response - but your argument is not with me. It is your actions in contradiction to the teachings of your savior that you need to reconcile.

So, at your judgment, when God asks you why you didnt uphold His Word in this place

you don't know anything about my life, moron, you're a weed, an outsider...worry about your own spiritual fate, not mine

You're the worst of the lot

coming from you? a universalist who hates what I stand for? what judge are YOU?

I'm aggressive, you bet, but this forum needs to be cleaned up

coming from you? a universalist who hates what I stand for? what judge are YOU?

I'm aggressive, you bet, but this forum needs to be cleaned up

And what judge are u?

Wishing people cancer and shit while ur prostate is simmering to blow up with tumors u can't even ejaculate out, but rather dribble when they clog up ur urethra.

Forum needs clean up? Starting with u....

don't use "people" in a general context, in was directed at one person, and while that doesn't make it right, it's a person who got a similar reaction from MANY on rx7club

And since u like to preach the good word of GOD to us u should be the bigger man and ignore that.

Jesus did. Can't u?

I love BATMAN!!!

I find it interesting that, all too often, religious types come not from the standpoint of "God wants me to help you, so how can I help?" but from "My group has secret knowledge that your group doesn't, therefore God loves us more and you're doomed! AAAhahahahahaha!" I'm sick and tired of people ignoring what their religion actually says, and instead use it as a form of self-aggrandizing elitism.

I saw a funny t-shirt the other day. It said: "I'm not elitist, I really am better than you."

I love BATMAN!!!
You could be his Robin....

http://www.washblade.com/2005/8-26/view/actionalert/batman-kiss.jpg

don't use "people" in a general context, in was directed at one person, and while that doesn't make it right, it's a person who got a similar reaction from MANY on rx7club

whose memory sucks again??

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=71648&postcount=33

you said to jimlab:

it will such a great day to see someone like you with cancer, near death, with all pride removed

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=83334&postcount=10

you're such an asshole Jim....may you die soon of cancer

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=76429&postcount=152

(again to jimlab)
more liver cancer to you




Youre a pathetic dishonest retard. And, you said similar comments to others too. But hey, "it was only one person", right liar?? So, "people" was correct in that you have said it to at least two, possibly more. And then, there are other things you have hoped people will die from....damn, you even told jimlab once that you hoped his mom dies soon from her cancer!! That's three....

so, the real question is, why do you lie about everyfrigginthing? If you stand behind the comments you post, why do you feel the need to deny them later?

Karma Mark...Karma.

Mark likes to dish out how others are perverse sinners and deserves cancer and eternal thirst while he has broken at least one of the 10 commandments, though shalt not lie.

If Mark is going to be in Heaven (which I seriously doubt since GOD doesn't want no tough-man crossing his arms with over-sized dove wings) I rather be in Hell.

Mark should sell his terrain vehicles since u can only use them in Hell and invest in a plane with a harp strapped on the tail.

Jim's a pretty good guy, although I was a little ticked off at the time. Although arrogant, at least Jim is reasonably intelligent and rational, unlike babbling psycho jonnie. I could have a beer with Jim, but I don't want anything to do with jon.

Alain, you're just an ongoing gag reel

I rather be in Hell.

no, you wouldn't....no one in their right mind desires eternal suffering in a burning garbage dump, where the worm does not die, and the fire never goes out

Hypothetical question Mark; You die and find out heaven and hell are both imaginary. You have just wasted your entire life 'being Christian' all for naught. What would your reaction be?

how do you define "wasted"? this life is a vapor, it flashes right by...recall Pascal's wager?

how do you define "wasted"? this life is a vapor, it flashes right by...recall Pascal's wager?

I doubt he recalls anything... quick Vert!! Wikipedia to the rescue!!

lol Ark. Ok, for Mark's lack of understanding of the term, lets not say wasted. You have just SPENT your entire life Christian all for naught. What do you do then?

die like everyone else?

if this trivial and futile existence is really all there is, life is indeed tragic

but billions of galaxies and trillions of atomic structures in spectacular array, unseen by transient human flesh, declare a super-rational Creator, and the gospel of God stepping out of eternity to take on the form of a human Servant, to bridge the great distance between us, is both supremely logical and wonderful

life in it's very essence is designed to teach you discipline and perseverance, fools live as existentialists

I Corinthians 9

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.

Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Ok. Was just curious.

Christ never said fear me. Christ preached that people should be kind to one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, and so forth.

I find it interesting that, all too often, religious types come not from the standpoint of "God wants me to help you, so how can I help?" but from "My group has secret knowledge that your group doesn't, therefore God loves us more and you're doomed! AAAhahahahahaha!" I'm sick and tired of people ignoring what their religion actually says, and instead use it as a form of self-aggrandizing elitism.

True however the reason why i say that jesus expects fear from us is because christains claim christ is god when jesus said the words 'I am'. So therefore when the authors say to fear god, they are supposely referring to jesus too since, mahahahha, I guess he is God.

Jim's a pretty good guy, although I was a little ticked off at the time. Although arrogant, at least Jim is reasonably intelligent and rational, unlike babbling psycho jonnie. I could have a beer with Jim, but I don't want anything to do with jon.

Alain, you're just an ongoing gag reel

And youre just a liar. Whats with the diversion, anyways? Cant admit that you didnt "only say that to one person"?? Didnt think you would....no big surprise there...

Talking to yourself isnt a good sign :owned:

Jim's a pretty good guy, although I was a little ticked off at the time. Although arrogant, at least Jim is reasonably intelligent and rational, unlike babbling psycho jonnie. I could have a beer with Jim, but I don't want anything to do with jon.

Alain, you're just an ongoing gag reel

Agreed that Jimlab is a pretty good guy.

Unlike u he is rational.

What makes u think he would like to hang out with u? So he can hear u curse him to have cancer and ramble about the word of ur GOD?

no, you wouldn't....no one in their right mind desires eternal suffering in a burning garbage dump, where the worm does not die, and the fire never goes out


Are u going to behave the way u are in the afterlife?

^^
dont you remember, skidMArk is going to be the only one in heaven.

I think it's lame how yzf gets banned for pretty much nothing these days (unless I've missed something). Why do we have such petty mods?

Yea....blame the mods because Marky flys off the handle on a regular basis......

Flys off the handle? What has he done the last 3-4 times that he's been banned? He calls someone an asshole and then he gets banned for a month. What a joke.

And you know what? You probably don't see all the fucked up PM's he sends people. Like this one for instance.....

you need a bullet in your head


But, you're right....The mods here are very oppressive........:rolleyes:

And you know what? You probably don't see all the fucked up PM's he sends people. Like this one for instance.....

I think it's lame how yzf gets banned for pretty much nothing these days (unless I've missed something). Why do we have such petty mods?

Like you said, I don't see PMs that he sends to other people (nor do mods for that matter).

Now, if he sent you that PM recently, and you brought it to a mod's attention, then I retrack my statement and will say that he was justly banned. Otherwise, I'll stick to my original assessment.

He did not send me this recently, however, every time he gets mad at someone he starts sending these types of PM's. I know for a fact I am not the only one getting PM's from him like this.

And just for your info...The above PM he sent me was over me doing my "Mark sucks" thing. So in his mind he is righteous in telling me that I should die because I told him that he sucks......Yea...Marky doesn't fly off the handle.....

Mark Sucks.

I have to say that I havent recieved any cool PMs from Mark like that.

A likely PM to Ark from Mark.
Hey bud. See? They are banning me for nothing. Say something for me.

lolz :owned:

I think you need to cool it with the owned smiley.

I think Sky's 'owned' smiles owns even people who dont deserve an owned smile. For example, I say something incorrherent and fuck up spelling yet place a 'owned' smile and WHAMMO! yer owned!

ps. :owned:

Like you said, I don't see PMs that he sends to other people (nor do mods for that matter).

Now, if he sent you that PM recently, and you brought it to a mod's attention, then I retrack my statement and will say that he was justly banned. Otherwise, I'll stick to my original assessment.

I cannot speak for others, nor can I speak for this most recent time he was banned. I also asked what happened.....I asked last time as well, because I didnt see anything that was particularly ban-worthy, and I stated that in a thread here. But I am not the one banning him, and I am also not sending complaints to mods about him. Recently, I have shared your opinion the last couple times, but that is because I havent seen what caused it.

However, I can tell you from experience that a lot of his comments--things that he has been repeatedly warned about--get edited out by a mod when the ban hammer falls. So, you wouldnt see it unless you got to that post before a mod did. He still makes the same comments he always has, like wishing death on someone. Just because he doesnt do it in every post anymore, that doesnt mean that he is unjustly being banned.

Either way, do you really think that someone needs to ban him for no reason? The guy has less restraint than Michael Jackson at a jr high science fair...I am all for fair treatment, but why is it such a stretch for you to imagine him actually earning the ban hammer when he gets it? Show us a time when he actually listened to what mods have told him in here.....

I think Sky's 'owned' smiles owns even people who dont deserve an owned smile. For example, I say something incorrherent and fuck up spelling yet place a 'owned' smile and WHAMMO! yer owned!

ps. :owned:



http://smiliesftw.com/x/dinhowned.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

http://smiliesftw.com/x/43.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

Either way, do you really think that someone needs to ban him for no reason? The guy has less restraint than Michael Jackson at a jr high science fair...I am all for fair treatment, but why is it such a stretch for you to imagine him actually earning the ban hammer when he gets it? Show us a time when he actually listened to what mods have told him in here.....

I think that it's certainly within the realm of a reasonable possibility. These mods are anything but impartial. Even now, his posts get edited just to piss him off, when he isn't crossing the line and threatening people. In the past, he would get banned for making threats of physical harm, yet DL would never get banned for making virtually the same threats. Why is that?

As for restraint, I would agrue that he has shown some (though clearly not enough). The death threats seemed to have stopped in public posts, and when he is banned, we aren't seeing the multiple user aliases that we used to. As for stuff getting edited before we see it, that's possible, but not too likely as our mods aren't on frequently enough these days to catch everything before it's responded to. You're right though, he could be sending threats via PMs to people and they could be reporting it, but seeing as how he hasn't sent any to you or herschel, that pretty much only leaves 95whitepep.

The problem with showing a time when he listened to mods, is that I can't win. If I say, these last 3 times he was banned, people will just say, "well, he's probably doing something that you can't see," or "his threats are probaly getting edited by our super objective mods before anyone sees them."

I mean seriously, the guys says to you: "the world will be a better place when you are dead," and he gets banned for that.

I think that it's certainly within the realm of a reasonable possibility. These mods are anything but impartial. Even now, his posts get edited just to piss him off, when he isn't crossing the line and threatening people.

Well, consider this--he himself takes some kind of perverse pride in editing everyone else's posts himself(as quotes) just to piss them off. Perhaps you arent realizing that he is only getting what he himself gives out, at that point. If it's wrong to edit a post like that, where do we see you complaining all the times that he does the same thing to others? It happens far more frequently than he gets edited himself....and not one complaint from you about it.

In the past, he would get banned for making threats of physical harm, yet DL would never get banned for making virtually the same threats. Why is that?

Youre asking me why someone else doesnt do something. I cannot speak for anyone else. I have spoken in the past and agreed with you on this one, though. But I dont have an answer, it isnt for me to speak for someone else.

As for restraint, I would agrue that he has shown some (though clearly not enough). The death threats seemed to have stopped in public posts, and when he is banned, we aren't seeing the multiple user aliases that we used to.

Poor argument. That isnt restraint--it's marky finally realizing that all he's doing is wasting his time. Look at it like this--when he signed up on worthy, and told 100t2 to shove this forum, he was gone entirely....UNTIL, that is, they kicked him out over there too. $10 says he simply found another forum to piss off and thats why we dont see him here right now. Thats exactly what happened last time, and it isnt far-fetched to say it probably happened again now.

As for threats, how is it restraint to not say something you know you shouldnt say to a person(in public) when you say it privately anyways, knowing it is 100% wrong to say at all? That isnt restraint, he still feels and acts the same way. All he changed there is who can see it, this is known as "plausible deniability". Later, as he has in the past, he can then claim you made the PM up...

As for stuff getting edited before we see it, that's possible, but not too likely as our mods aren't on frequently enough these days to catch everything before it's responded to. You're right though, he could be sending threats via PMs to people and they could be reporting it, but seeing as how he hasn't sent any to you or herschel, that pretty much only leaves 95whitepep.

Wrong. Those have not been his only targets. Once he was banned for PMing 100T2. And more recently, he has clashed in here with manntis. There are others....manntis in particular has caught some of marky's posts in the threads.

The problem with showing a time when he listened to mods, is that I can't win. If I say, these last 3 times he was banned, people will just say, "well, he's probably doing something that you can't see," or "his threats are probaly getting edited by our super objective mods before anyone sees them."

1--youre right, you cant win, but not for the reason you claim. he simply does not listen to the mods or the rules, period. Nothing you say changes this, so wake up.

2--now youre just making shit up as you go. When did any of us ever call the mods objective? When did anyone ever say anything of the kind? Geez, are you really this stuck on marky's sack that you are now gonna start telling lies to defend him? He has history with no one here like he does with me, and the last two times he was banned, my actual response, as I posted it here, was "I did not see anything ban-worthy from him, why was he banned this time". This alone kills off your ridiculous made-up theory. No one is saying that, in fact quite the opposite has been posted. And even then, you still come with this crap?!?

The point here is this---based solely on marky's own actions and words over the last several years, it is far easier to imagine that he broke a forum rule than to imagine that he didnt. Even you have to be honest about that. If you recall, those same "super-objective mods" brought him back from a perma-ban because they cared more about increasing traffic in here than they did about the content or quality of that traffic. So, saying they want him gone so badly that they make up reasons to ban him is ridiculous--he already was perma-banned and they LET HIM BACK IN.

Well, consider this--he himself takes some kind of perverse pride in editing everyone else's posts himself(as quotes) just to piss them off. Perhaps you arent realizing that he is only getting what he himself gives out, at that point. If it's wrong to edit a post like that, where do we see you complaining all the times that he does the same thing to others? It happens far more frequently than he gets edited himself....and not one complaint from you about it.

You're right about that, he does edit other people's posts and it's both petty and childish. Perhaps I'm mistaken in thinking that a mod should be held to higher standards in their conduct but that's just the way that I feel.

Youre asking me why someone else doesnt do something. I cannot speak for anyone else. I have spoken in the past and agreed with you on this one, though. But I dont have an answer, it isnt for me to speak for someone else.

I'm not actually asking you anything as I know that you are not a mod and therefore have no answer to this. Instead I brought it up to illustrate my point, that if the mods here were truly impartial, they would ban both parties, not just yzf.

Poor argument. That isnt restraint--it's marky finally realizing that all he's doing is wasting his time. Look at it like this--when he signed up on worthy, and told 100t2 to shove this forum, he was gone entirely....UNTIL, that is, they kicked him out over there too. $10 says he simply found another forum to piss off and thats why we dont see him here right now. Thats exactly what happened last time, and it isnt far-fetched to say it probably happened again now.

How many times have you yourself stated that he has no life and that he is a forum junkie? Now suddenly he has only time for one forum? As soon as $100T2 posted yzf's email, I new it would only be a matter of time before he came back here. So is your position that the reason he came back here is because he got banned on worthyboards and had nowhere else to go? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he back on worthyboards just a few weeks ago while he was also posting on here?

As for threats, how is it restraint to not say something you know you shouldnt say to a person(in public) when you say it privately anyways, knowing it is 100% wrong to say at all? That isnt restraint, he still feels and acts the same way. All he changed there is who can see it, this is known as "plausible deniability". Later, as he has in the past, he can then claim you made the PM up...

Good point. If he is in fact he is PMing threats (which at this point we can only speculate on) then he is not restraining his behaviour.

Wrong. Those have not been his only targets. Once he was banned for PMing 100T2. And more recently, he has clashed in here with manntis. There are others....manntis in particular has caught some of marky's posts in the threads.

I was speaking about recent "clashes" that could have led him to PM threats. Obviously there have been numerous people that he has crossed the line with in the past, and I am not debating that. In that respect, to my knowledge there are only three people that he has really gotten into it with in the last week. By my count, you, herschel, and 95whitepep.


1--youre right, you cant win, but not for the reason you claim. he simply does not listen to the mods or the rules, period. Nothing you say changes this, so wake up.

Actually, I can't win for exactly the reason that I stated. I say that he hasn't appeared to have crossed the line the last couple of times that he has been banned and you come back and say:

However, I can tell you from experience that a lot of his comments--things that he has been repeatedly warned about--get edited out by a mod when the ban hammer falls. So, you wouldnt see it unless you got to that post before a mod did.

Then hershcel says:

He did not send me this recently, however, every time he gets mad at someone he starts sending these types of PM's. I know for a fact I am not the only one getting PM's from him like this.

Thanks for proving my point.

2--now youre just making shit up as you go. When did any of us ever call the mods objective? When did anyone ever say anything of the kind?

The quotes were me paraphrasing what has and what will, undoubtedly, be said. The "super objective" part was my own addition to make a point that the mods are in fact very subjective. It was my shot at them, not at you.

Geez, are you really this stuck on marky's sack...

My complaint is not with you. As of right now, we are just disscussing an issue which I would like to keep civil. Although, I have been told that maintaining any sort of civility with you is an impossibility...

that you are now gonna start telling lies to defend him?

I'm not telling lies and if I make a mistake or someone happens to raise a good point, I always admit to it. I'm not yzf so stop trying to talk to me like I am.

He has history with no one here like he does with me, and the last two times he was banned, my actual response, as I posted it here, was "I did not see anything ban-worthy from him, why was he banned this time". This alone kills off your ridiculous made-up theory. No one is saying that, in fact quite the opposite has been posted. And even then, you still come with this crap?!?

Ridiculous made-up theory? What the hell are you talking about? All that I'm saying is that the mods here are biased and are, in effect, not doing their job. That's it. I'm not saying that I believe that you feel the opposite is true, nor am I assuming that you agree with me so try not to jump to such conclusions. If you are unsure about something that I post, simply ask for me to clarify. Don't always jump to red alert.

The point here is this---based solely on marky's own actions and words over the last several years, it is far easier to imagine that he broke a forum rule than to imagine that he didnt. Even you have to be honest about that. If you recall, those same "super-objective mods" brought him back from a perma-ban because they cared more about increasing traffic in here than they did about the content or quality of that traffic. So, saying they want him gone so badly that they make up reasons to ban him is ridiculous--he already was perma-banned and they LET HIM BACK IN.

I don't recall $100T2 "bringing him back". In fact, this is what he said:

I don't know who lifted it, and I'm not thrilled that he's back, but as long as he keeps himself in check and there aren't a lot of complaints, it's ok.

It sounds like someone went over his head and allowed him back. My guess is that it was COsborne but at any rate, it was out of $100T2's hands.

I didn't bring this topic up to discuss yzf's past behaviour. I brought it up in the hopes that we could have some light shed on this matter. If it turns out that he violated the rules, then I will be the first to say that he was rightly banned. Personally, I feel that the mods (some, not all) are biased and I'm curious to know if anyone else feels the same.

You're right about that, he does edit other people's posts and it's both petty and childish. Perhaps I'm mistaken in thinking that a mod should be held to higher standards in their conduct but that's just the way that I feel.

I dont agree. Marky's supposedly a 40 year old professional, accomplished adult. More than that, he proclaims himself to be a man of Christ. A mod's job is not to be more polite, or more professional, or more correct than the others. And when you stack up what marky claims to be, and compare it to what everyone else here has been branded by marky, then by his own claims he should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us here, period. And he simply doesnt measure up, not even close. Marky declares the Bible as his doctrine, and constantly claims he is so much better than everyone else--to me that means that it is upon him at that point to conduct himself better than everyone else he is supposed so superior to....

I'm not actually asking you anything as I know that you are not a mod and therefore have no answer to this. Instead I brought it up to illustrate my point, that if the mods here were truly impartial, they would ban both parties, not just yzf.

well, let's see here....some months back, marky was perma-banned because of offensive behavior. Why should "the other party" have been banned? What did Kevin do, other than read a PM that crossed the line, written by marky?

Before that, he was banned at least once for wishing me dead. What should I have been banned for? I didnt do the same thing that was determined to be crossing that line. I NEVER made a comment like that, so why should both parties be banned when marky's the only one acting like a degenerate to that extent? Granted, many people in here get after marky, but again, how many people do the things marky does? Currently, you say, there are basically three people who marky has gone back & forth with---show me when any of those people have made these kinds of comments?? You cant because marky is the only guilty one in that. the last time he PM'ed me and wished me dead was 3 months back....I never tell him that, not before and not since, so your logic just went out the window there.

I was speaking about recent "clashes" that could have led him to PM threats. Obviously there have been numerous people that he has crossed the line with in the past, and I am not debating that. In that respect, to my knowledge there are only three people that he has really gotten into it with in the last week. By my count, you, herschel, and 95whitepep.

manntis too, recently, and probably others as well. he was never a big fan of czar either.

How many times have you yourself stated that he has no life and that he is a forum junkie? Now suddenly he has only time for one forum? As soon as $100T2 posted yzf's email, I new it would only be a matter of time before he came back here. So is your position that the reason he came back here is because he got banned on worthyboards and had nowhere else to go? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he back on worthyboards just a few weeks ago while he was also posting on here?

let's take a look at this one. You will see my point quite clearly, I think....

1--marky hasnt joined worthy yet, and posted here about 20 times a day on average.

2--he really crosses the line here and gets threatened with a permaban. He tells Kevin "I dont need your forum anyways, I have a new one to go to....". Then he is banned and goes over there.

3--marky's on worthy, again posting an average around 20 times a day.

4--marky gets repeatedly warned while over there, and even given two "final warnings" in the same thread. Then he makes a new name and comes back over here, but posts very little here compared to his usual behavior.

5--the worthy ban hammer falls. Suddenly, guess who's back on TFL posting a bunch of times a day? marky, of course.

6--then he goes back on worthy, and his post count falls off again in here quite dramatically.

7--banned again here, repeatedly. Posts more and more over there, less and less here.

Just because he still shows up in here, that doesnt mean anything. He spends all of his free time, even his work time, on the forums. THAT is truly having no life. The only time marky isnt on one of the forums for any length of time is when he is banned from it. There are days and even more than a day at a time when the rest of us, me included, arent in here, but not marky. He is either here or there. So, he's back on over there, and posts here less. Shoot, when he went back on over there weeks ago, he was banned from here at that time! I think that explains it just fine.

Actually, I can't win for exactly the reason that I stated. I say that he hasn't appeared to have crossed the line the last couple of times that he has been banned and you come back and say:

Then hershcel says:

Thanks for proving my point.

That doesnt even begin to prove your point. I said that some of his comments get edited before you see them. Herschel said that he hasnt received any of these PM's in a while. So, two completely different statements, about two completely different things, and you think that combined they prove something? Well, they dont. You may use them to ASSume something else, but as they are they dont prove anything. if you look right up to the last day he posted here you will see that he was getting into it with manntis. This may have had something to do with him being banned again.....but you dont get the right to assume whatever you choose and then say that two completely unrelated events "prove" your assumption.

The quotes were me paraphrasing what has and what will, undoubtedly, be said. The "super objective" part was my own addition to make a point that the mods are in fact very subjective. It was my shot at them, not at you.

Tell me, who has said this about marky getting banned? And if someone has said it, why do you think they did? Why do you think that it is that easy for someone to think he must have done wrong again? It COULDNT be because of the reputation he has earned all by himself, could it?? Yes, the mods are subjective. No, they are not objective. No, we dont know all the details behind the last time he was banned. But that doesnt automatically mean that this is a conspiracy. If you want to get technical, he should have been permabanned again anyways, because one of the conditions behind him coming back was that as long as he didnt get the complaints and pull the same old crap again, there would be no problem. And he kept on truckin....what else did you honestly expect?? Dont blame marky's behavior on the mods. If there was no good honest reason, blame them for their actions, but let's put a stop to the dog-and-pony show about how he isnt being treated appropriately based on how he treats others here. You and I both know that he is the worst offender this forum has ever known, hands down. You even tried to bring DL into this--and even he doesnt compare. A few times DL has made some very specific and graphic posts....marky has made those same kinds of posts dozens of times, and then continued in PM's to several people. No comparison.

My complaint is not with you. As of right now, we are just disscussing an issue which I would like to keep civil. Although, I have been told that maintaining any sort of civility with you is an impossibility...

The only complain I have with you is the way you present your thoughts on this. There is NO GOOD REASON why ANYONE should for even a half a second paint marky out to be the victim of anything. Even if he did nothing to deserve this ban, why do you think the reputation he has exists?? I guarantee you this--he earned it all by himself. No mod bias was needed to make that happen. And if he is such a target now, it can only be because of the piss poor reputation he has made for himself. In fact, if you look back just a short while before he was banned again this last time, you see that he posted this:

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=164844&postcount=19

just can't leave it alone for even one thread, can ya, asshole? believe me, I'd like to meet you in person, and the smack would immediately disappear, I can promise you that...but that will never happen, because you're a little chickenshit who's all words

That was the last day he posted. If you think that telling someone how much you want to meet them in person so you can kick their ass is appropriate for a 40 year old "professional Christian man", then by all means, continue to blame the mods and interject your "super objective" embellishments if it makes you feel better.

I'm not telling lies and if I make a mistake or someone happens to raise a good point, I always admit to it. I'm not yzf so stop trying to talk to me like I am.

Please, forgive me if I saw something in your earlier post that you didnt intend...

And by the way, you really need to give this a rest. "talk to you like youre yzf"?? All I did was disagree with you and for good reason. And your post came off with a lot of assuming. I have every right to put my opinion in the hat. So, please, get rid of the assumptions. I dont talk to you like youre marky, never claimed you were, so give it up.

Like you said, I don't see PMs that he sends to other people (nor do mods for that matter).

We do, when they're brought to our attention.

Threatening forum members with physical violence (whether in PMs or in posts) is not only inappropriate for a forum, it's illegal in both Canada and the US. And when I say illegal, I mean very, very illegal. I've posted links for Mark in the past of people who have received hefty prison sentences for that very thing.

Disagreements are one thing - it is only through discussing differing opinions can either party present their views to the other. Uttering outright threats are another matter.

Anyway, back on topic, there is no God and fear drives religion.

Sigh, round and round we go...

I dont agree. Marky's supposedly a 40 year old professional, accomplished adult. More than that, he proclaims himself to be a man of Christ. A mod's job is not to be more polite, or more professional, or more correct than the others. And when you stack up what marky claims to be, and compare it to what everyone else here has been branded by marky, then by his own claims he should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us here, period. And he simply doesnt measure up, not even close. Marky declares the Bible as his doctrine, and constantly claims he is so much better than everyone else--to me that means that it is upon him at that point to conduct himself better than everyone else he is supposed so superior to....

Sorry, but you are wrong. I'm not talking about the stanards that yzf should hold himself to, nor am I talking about the standards that his fellow elect should hold him to. Instead, I'm talking about the standards that he should be held to on this forum. So if he breaks the rules, you would expect a mod to know better and not follow suit.

well, let's see here....some months back, marky was perma-banned because of offensive behavior. Why should "the other party" have been banned? What did Kevin do, other than read a PM that crossed the line, written by marky?

Before that, he was banned at least once for wishing me dead. What should I have been banned for? I didnt do the same thing that was determined to be crossing that line. I NEVER made a comment like that, so why should both parties be banned when marky's the only one acting like a degenerate to that extent? Granted, many people in here get after marky, but again, how many people do the things marky does? Currently, you say, there are basically three people who marky has gone back & forth with---show me when any of those people have made these kinds of comments?? You cant because marky is the only guilty one in that. the last time he PM'ed me and wished me dead was 3 months back....I never tell him that, not before and not since, so your logic just went out the window there.

You know that I wasn't referring to any of these instances, so why bring them up? I was talking about when he would get banned for threatening people with physical harm yet at the exact same time, DL would do the very same thing and would never recieve a ban. I realize that you don't make comments like that and I never even so much as hinted otherwise. Same goes $100T2 or anyone else for that matter. My logic hasn't gone out the window, in fact it has always been very consistent.

Re-read what I first wrote on the matter:

In the past, he would get banned for making threats of physical harm, yet DL would never get banned for making virtually the same threats. Why is that?

Now, please tell me where in the above do I ask why you haven't been banned. Please tell me where I accused you or anyone other than DL of making threats of physical harm. Truth is, you can't but somehow that doesn't stop you from trying to drag me through the mud for comments that I never made nor even alluded to.

manntis too, recently, and probably others as well. he was never a big fan of czar either.

You're right, the list is larger than I initially suggested.

let's take a look at this one. You will see my point quite clearly, I think....

1--marky hasnt joined worthy yet, and posted here about 20 times a day on average.

2--he really crosses the line here and gets threatened with a permaban. He tells Kevin "I dont need your forum anyways, I have a new one to go to....". Then he is banned and goes over there.

3--marky's on worthy, again posting an average around 20 times a day.

4--marky gets repeatedly warned while over there, and even given two "final warnings" in the same thread. Then he makes a new name and comes back over here, but posts very little here compared to his usual behavior.

5--the worthy ban hammer falls. Suddenly, guess who's back on TFL posting a bunch of times a day? marky, of course.

6--then he goes back on worthy, and his post count falls off again in here quite dramatically.

7--banned again here, repeatedly. Posts more and more over there, less and less here.

Just because he still shows up in here, that doesnt mean anything. He spends all of his free time, even his work time, on the forums. THAT is truly having no life. The only time marky isnt on one of the forums for any length of time is when he is banned from it. There are days and even more than a day at a time when the rest of us, me included, arent in here, but not marky. He is either here or there. So, he's back on over there, and posts here less. Shoot, when he went back on over there weeks ago, he was banned from here at that time! I think that explains it just fine.

Yet you still ignore the fact that everytime his ban is lifted here, he comes right back and makes about 20 posts, regardless of whether he is currently active on worthyboards. That seems kind of odd for a person who realizes that he's wasting his time because he's found somewhere else to go doesn't? If your theory were correct, why would it matter to him at all whether his ban were lifted? Why would he even bother coming back here at all?

That doesnt even begin to prove your point. I said that some of his comments get edited before you see them. Herschel said that he hasnt received any of these PM's in a while. So, two completely different statements, about two completely different things, and you think that combined they prove something? Well, they dont. You may use them to ASSume something else, but as they are they dont prove anything. if you look right up to the last day he posted here you will see that he was getting into it with manntis. This may have had something to do with him being banned again.....but you dont get the right to assume whatever you choose and then say that two completely unrelated events "prove" your assumption.

You really make me laugh sometimes. I say that if I were to give an example, people would just make up excuses as to why my example doesn't work. Then I provide examples of people doing just that, not only making excuses, but exactly the ones that I suggested. How was I able to do that, might you ask? Because the excuses were given before I even made that post, all I did was paraphrase what you guys said, so basically what I said was this: you won't accept my example (which was already provided) because you guys believe these excuses that you already posted. Then, somehow, beyond all ryhme and reason, you come back and say "That doesnt even begin to prove your point" ??

:roll:

Now you're jumping right into your "ASSuming" routine which is great because you use it so seldom. Tell me, what exactly am I assuming here? Am I assuming that you will use an excuse that you have already used? Is that an assumption? Do you even know what the word "assumption" means?

Tell me, who has said this about marky getting banned? And if someone has said it, why do you think they did? Why do you think that it is that easy for someone to think he must have done wrong again? It COULDNT be because of the reputation he has earned all by himself, could it?? Yes, the mods are subjective. No, they are not objective. No, we dont know all the details behind the last time he was banned. But that doesnt automatically mean that this is a conspiracy. If you want to get technical, he should have been permabanned again anyways, because one of the conditions behind him coming back was that as long as he didnt get the complaints and pull the same old crap again, there would be no problem. And he kept on truckin....what else did you honestly expect?? Dont blame marky's behavior on the mods. If there was no good honest reason, blame them for their actions, but let's put a stop to the dog-and-pony show about how he isnt being treated appropriately based on how he treats others here. You and I both know that he is the worst offender this forum has ever known, hands down. You even tried to bring DL into this--and even he doesnt compare. A few times DL has made some very specific and graphic posts....marky has made those same kinds of posts dozens of times, and then continued in PM's to several people. No comparison.

If the mod who banned him comes on here and says that he banned him for legitimate reasons, then he deserved the banning. I'm not disputing that he's deserved getting banned in the past and I am certainly not ruling out the possibility that he was deserving of these most recent ones either. What I am saying however, is that unless he did something that I am unaware of, then it does not appear that he deserved to be banned this time around. You yourself say that the mods are not objective. Is it then so difficult to believe that he was banned without sufficient reason?

The only complain I have with you is the way you present your thoughts on this. There is NO GOOD REASON why ANYONE should for even a half a second paint marky out to be the victim of anything. Even if he did nothing to deserve this ban, why do you think the reputation he has exists?? I guarantee you this--he earned it all by himself. No mod bias was needed to make that happen. And if he is such a target now, it can only be because of the piss poor reputation he has made for himself.

I haven't disputed that he is deserving of his poor reputation. Again, show me where I have? At the same time, you nailed to issue right here: "Even if he did nothing to deserve this ban, why do you think the reputation he has exists??"

"Even if he did nothing to deserve his ban, that shouldn't matter because he did some bad stuff in the past so they should be able to ban him whenever they want for whatever they want and they shouldn't have to answer for it. In fact, if they do ban him, everyone should just assume that he did something wrong and and that he thusly deserved it because of said reputation.*"

*note, this is me paraphrasing you with a little sarcasm for levity.

In fact, if you look back just a short while before he was banned again this last time, you see that he posted this... That was the last day he posted. If you think that telling someone how much you want to meet them in person so you can kick their ass is appropriate for a 40 year old "professional Christian man", then by all means, continue to blame the mods and interject your "super objective" embellishments if it makes you feel better.

LOL. Maybe you should try comprehending someone else's quote before you post it. He said that he would like to meet him in person because he knows that he won't have the balls to say the things that he says online in person. No where in that quote does it state that he would physically harm another person, but hey, he has said that in the past so it's cool to just "ASSume" that that's what he meant this time around, right sky?

Please, forgive me if I saw something in your earlier post that you didnt intend...

Under the bridge.

And by the way, you really need to give this a rest. "talk to you like youre yzf"?? All I did was disagree with you and for good reason. And your post came off with a lot of assuming. I have every right to put my opinion in the hat. So, please, get rid of the assumptions. I dont talk to you like youre marky, never claimed you were, so give it up.

Yes, talking to me like I'm yzf as it didn't take you very long to fall into the old "stop telling lies" routine. Now apparently I'm "ASSuming" :rolleyes: Can't wait to be enlightened on that one.

We do, when they're brought to our attention.

Threatening forum members with physical violence (whether in PMs or in posts) is not only inappropriate for a forum, it's illegal in both Canada and the US. And when I say illegal, I mean very, very illegal. I've posted links for Mark in the past of people who have received hefty prison sentences for that very thing.

Disagreements are one thing - it is only through discussing differing opinions can either party present their views to the other. Uttering outright threats are another matter.

Hey, I agree with you. If he threatens someone with physical harm then he deserves to be banned. If it turns out that that's what he did these more recent times then he likewise deserved the ban. Heck, if that truly is what happened then I will apologize for my "unobjective mods" comments, but this would require someone actually explaining what happened.

there was no threat of physical harm in the post manntis is referring to...zero

Oh? Do you REALLY want to push this issue? The threat you made is virtually identical to 2 others that resulted in prison sentences. Now would be a good time for you to shut up. Or play the victim revisionist as usual, and see where that gets you.

Now now, Mark - You remember the links to the arrests as well as anyone. Pretending will get you nowhere. Chris won't be held liable for that which you post, but it will make the entire forum look bad if you're hauled off in cuffs.

lolz
welcome back again yzf. I heard that Im not suxh a good fan of yourz. Whats up with that? Just because i make fum of your make believe god doesn't mean you need to be bitter to that. let the cartoon god take care of that matter.

lol good enough :)

lolz
welcome back again yzf. I heard that Im not suxh a good fan of yourz. Whats up with that? Just because i make fum of your make believe god doesn't mean you need to be bitter to that. let the cartoon god take care of that matter.

lol

Now you're just doing that on purpose.

Oh? Do you REALLY want to push this issue? The threat you made is virtually identical to 2 others that resulted in prison sentences. Now would be a good time for you to shut up. Or play the victim revisionist as usual, and see where that gets you.

So, what was this threat, exactly?

ark, I think you've got your answer....a mod came forward and stated that a legitimate problem occurred. as for the rest of yoru babbling, I will answer with only one thing because one thing is all that is needed. Your whole "excuse" rant. Well, the problem in your logic is that it isnt just an excuse. Time and again yzf's posts have been edited by mods and warnings given, and no I am not talking about two years ago either...

Case in point--on 12/14, the yzf name was again banned. Looking around, you dont see the post anymore that got him banned....well, here is the explanation from the mod that banned him:

http://www.theforumlounge.com/showpost.php?p=163609&postcount=42

Banned for uttering a desire for a violent end on another forum member - again. I've shown him cases where saying such things, even over the internet, have landed many people from many different states in the slammer for a long time, but he somehow doesn't get it through his head.

You called it an excuse when I said that some of the mods catch this shit. Here is further proof that it isnt an excuse--it's reality. Thanks for playing.

take this crap to smacktalk, please (or better yet, get a life)

Here's a thought....shut the hell up

you waltzed in in the middle of an ongoing discussion and you think you have the right to tell anyone to go anywhere or do anything in regards to this forum? You dont get to decide what goes on and where it goes on, sport. Besides that, when you thought you were gonna lie your way out of your usual bullshit, you didnt have any problem putting in your 2 cents.

run along now, chief, maybe you can go make some other homosexual comment towards 95 or something...

(or better yet, get a life)

Coming from the guy that has more than 4 times as many posts as I do in the same amount of time, you sure dont have any room to speak

Mark, knock it off or it's back to time out.

there was no threat of physical harm in the post manntis is referring to...zero

it boils down to lazy moderation, manntis is just following kevin's lead: it's too much work to enforce the rules as they should be enforced, so just wait until arguments get heated and blindly ban the guy everyone disagrees with

You're right, Mark, it is lazy moderation. Why? Because I don't have the time to sift through all of the drivel that goes on in your little crusade. I'll tell you this: When you aren't here, things run pretty smoothly. All the mods basically just ban spammers and clean up their messes. That's all we need to do, when you're not around.

So, let's see: You come back, and all the shit stirring starts again. You are obviously the catalyst, so you get focused on.

Somebody, I think it was Ark2, said "some of the mods" (meaning me, I'm sure) are biased against you.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I am 100% biased. Why? Because you've earned it. I am biased against you in the same way I'd be biased against a child molester around my kids. Done it before, probably do it again is the way I see it. HOW FUCKING HARD IS IT TO FOLLOW A RULE??? Don't attack other members. Don't threaten them. Act like an adult. How hard is that, really? Are you just not capable of it? Are you that immature?

I've asked you repeatedly to modify your behavior. I've given you multiple chances, multiple bans, we've exchanged e-mails where you start off cordially, then, when you don't get your way, throw a fucking temper tantrum like a little child. I permanently banned you because whatever traffic you might encourage around here isn't worth the trouble you create. Someone else lifted that ban, and again, I'm not particularly happy about it. I personally think the forum is better off without you, and that this board will eventually figure that out, just like the RX7Club did.

So, in the meantime, yeah, I'm going to go through everything you post. Every day, I will click on your profile, click "find more posts by user", and scan everything you say. When you've irritated me enough, you'll get another ban. Behave yourself, and you won't. Don't bother PMing me, e-mailing me, or anything else, this is NOT a negotiation. Oh, and here's another hint: When you report someone else (usually skydivr, but occasionally other members), I'm going to go back and look at YOUR BEHAVIOR, too. It's amazing that you will report a post of someone telling you to go fuck yourself right after you tell them they will burn in the fires of hell while you giggle. Have a little common sense. If you are going to hit the report button, I suggest your behavior is flawless. Oh, and I look at your deleted posts, too... Those show up to mods, so don't bother trying to hide anything.

I hope I spelled this out clearly enough for you to understand.

Behave yourself, and you're good to go. Don't behave yourself, it's adios again.

Got it?

You called it an excuse when I said that some of the mods catch this shit. Here is further proof that it isnt an excuse--it's reality. Thanks for playing.

I think that $100T2 pretty much cleared everything up. What's funny is that it sounds like you and I essentially agree with one another on the issue and yet somehow this still got to be pretty big.

The "Banning of Mark" soap opera is killing the lounge.

more accurately, this section goes dead, as well as most of the forum...but nice try....makes for good fiction!

not as good as the fiction of your girlfriend, your hair, or your true height....

:bigthumb:


correction (again) witch-boy: I return and the usual loons show up, again...I'm not the problem, they are...I get along perfectly fine with rational, reasonable people, not psychos, whom you happen to give a free pass to...why? because they're aligned with your cause (and you invited most of them here in the first place)...I never start the name calling on these threads, and I'm never the one who diverts them into personal vendetta, that's always the usual suspects, and they always get a free pass...I challenge you to take a poll on this issue (via PM) with neutral parties here such as supper, amishboy, etc

you get along fine with rational people, which is why even fellow christians have spoken against you, your actions, and your mindset? Tell me--why were you banned a hundred times over and then some from the 7 club?? Kevin was not part of the issue. And why were you banned from worthy?? Kevin wasnt part of THAT equation either. But you were banned nonetheless. Here is the problem--with you it is 100% ALWAYS the fault of "the other guy". You used to say all the time that if this place had more christians in it you would not get banned like you did....so you went to a christian-based forum and they KICKED YOU OUT!

That should tell you something about you. Sadly, you only use it as yet another excuse to point the finger at "the other guy". Shit, man, for once, can you take ANY responsibility for your own actions? Even just a LITTLE??

wrong again, because we're enemies, and we've been enemies for a long time...are you going to sit there and deny you invited wackos like Dennis and honegod to post here, for the express reason to upset me, just so you get sit back and get your rocks off? oh but then it got a little ugly, and you didn't like that... cut the crap, kevin, you can't play both sides, you've always played fast and loose with the truth, it's what witches do naturally

you became enemies because of how you try to judge him...it never sat well with him. THEN he became biased towards you. Here's a hint, ya big dummy--it didnt just happen out of the blue one day for no reason. So, what he said is truthful.....you DID earn what you get because that is what happens when you treat everyone around you like shit, like they are all sub-standard compared to you. THAT is the end result, and you DID earn that.

when someone hands out the high brow criticism, I expect them to have an ounce of integrity, but you have none: you're an incredibly foul mouthed witch, zero morality, shacked up with some fat chick, and you're going to brow beat ME about moral behavior? get a grip, slick willie

YOU actually think you have any business talking about integrity? When everything that happens to you over the last five years, no matter what forum you are on or who is in there with you, it is ALWAYS the other guy at fault and not you...and you think you have any right to even say the word integrity? Son, you better wake the hell up. Youre living in a dream world....

more accurately, this section goes dead, as well as most of the forum...but nice try....makes for good fiction!

The only reason we even have this section is to keep your nonsense out of the other sections.

correction (again) witch-boy: I return and the usual loons show up, again...I'm not the problem, they are...I get along perfectly fine with rational, reasonable people, not psychos, whom you happen to give a free pass to...why? because they're aligned with your cause (and you invited most of them here in the first place)...I never start the name calling on these threads, and I'm never the one who diverts them into personal vendetta,

Except for you just calling me witch boy, right?


wrong again, because we're enemies, and we've been enemies for a long time...

Enemies? Dude, it's an internet forum. Get over yourself.

are you? who in the heck are YOU to claim some example of behavior??

I'm the guy who has to enforce the very fucking simple rule of RESPECT OTHER MEMBERS. That's all you have to do. If you can disagree with these people without the name calling and threats of physical violence, I WOULDN'T HAVE TO MODERATE YOU.

when someone hands out the high brow criticism, I expect them to have an ounce of integrity, but you have none: you're an incredibly foul mouthed witch, zero morality, shacked up with some fat chick, and you're going to brow beat ME about moral behavior? get a grip, slick willie

But you never start the personal attacks, right Mark?

And yeah, I'm going to point out your hypocritical behavior. You cannot be a Christian and do the things you do. They are polar opposites, and I'm going to point that out to you. Plain and simple.

THERE IT IS, FOLKS, RIGHT THERE...THE REAL "RULES" ENFORCEMENT ON TFL, courtesy of Kevin

Because I don't have to moderate anyone else. They all follow the fucking rules. See how that works? If you follow the rules, we don't have to bother with you.

The "Banning of Mark" soap opera is killing the lounge.

I think we should make a major motion picture about it. In fact, don't even make the movie, just make the sequel. Also, we'd need to miscast everyone.

I think we should make a major motion picture about it. In fact, don't even make the movie, just make the sequel. Also, we'd need to miscast everyone.

Nobody here think's Mark's a threat. His position is static. There's nothing new. People probably come around just to engage him. It should be that if anyone repeats some old dumb sh*t arguement, they should get banned for not being creative.

You can be played by Vanna White

there was no threat of physical harm in the post manntis is referring to...zero

it boils down to lazy moderation, manntis is just following kevin's lead: it's too much work to enforce the rules as they should be enforced, so just wait until arguments get heated and blindly ban the guy everyone disagrees with

I enjoy excersizing my powers and editing ur posts.

Pisses u off more if I make sexual and demonic references.

Batman, you'll be played by Jack Nicholson. Or Dicaprio, whoever will work for less.

what about me?

You'll be played by the Chicago Bears.

what about me?

DiCaprio, he looks just like you.

You can be played by a four foot by four foot cube of wax.

Vinny the Guido from OCC can play me.

No, you'll have to star as yourself. Remember, we are trying to MISCAST here :P

lol. Barbra Streisand could play you. :X

i would like to be played by Ted Danson, if possible.

According to this report, people who are lonely tend to find religion. This from yahoo News.

People who feel lonely are more likely to believe in the supernatural, whether that is God, angels or miracles, a new study finds.


Humans have evolved as social creatures, so loneliness cuts to the quick. Living in groups was critical to the survival and safety of our ancient ancestors, and "complete isolation or ostracism has been tantamount to a death sentence," said University of Chicago researcher Nicholas Epley, who led the study.


While group living isn't critical to survival in the modern world, feeling socially connected is. Feeling isolated and lonely is a very painful emotional state for people, Epley said, and can lead to ill health, both physically and mentally.


"Being socially isolated is just not good for you," he said.


When people feel lonely, they may try to rekindle old friendships, seek out new ones or, as Epley's study suggests, they may create social connections by anthropomorphizing nearby gadgets, such as computers or cars, pets, or by believing in supernatural events or religious figures.


Pets and religion


In their study, detailed in the February issue of the journal Psychological Science, Epley's team tried to induce feelings of loneliness in people to see how it affected how they thought of pets and their belief in religious figures.


In one experiment, college undergraduates were shown movie clips and told to try and empathize with the protagonist as best they could, in order to set them in one of three emotional states.


One group was shown a clip from "Cast Away," the movie in which the main character played by Tom Hanks is deserted on a remote island, in order to induce a feeling of isolation. The second group was shown a clip from the crime thriller "The Silence of the Lambs" to promote a sense of fear. A third, control group was shown a clip from the sports comedy feature film "Major League."


All three groups were then asked to describe a pet they owned or knew well and pick three traits from a list that best described them. The list included anthropomorphic traits that related to social connections (thoughtful, sympathetic) and simple behavioral descriptions (aggressive, energetic, fearful).


Participants from the loneliness group were more likely to describe the pet using the anthropomorphic descriptions than those in the fear or control groups.


All three groups were also asked to rate their belief in ghosts, angels, the devil, miracles, curses, and God, and again, those in the loneliness group reported stronger belief in these supernatural agents.


Future predictions


In another part of their study, Epley and his colleagues asked participants from the University of Chicago to fill out a personality questionnaire and were then told that the answers would be fed to a computer which would generate a future-life prediction for them. Half of the participants were read statements implying they would be lonely later in life, while the other half were told they would be socially connected for the rest of their lives.


"We tried to manipulate their loneliness, to make them feel lonely," Epley said.


The participants were then asked to rate their belief in the same supernatural agents in the other study, and those in the "lonely group" reported stronger belief than those in the "connected group." The results were also compared to ratings the participants gave before they got their life predictions, and those who reported a belief in God before and were made to feel lonely reported a stronger belief after the experiment.


"We found that inducing people to feel lonely made them more religious essentially," Epley told LiveScience, though he notes it won't cause any sudden conversions.


Health benefits

Owning pets and religious beliefs and practices are both known to increase a person's sense of well-being, but why exactly that is isn’t well known, Epley said.

Epley and his colleagues plan to probe the issue further to see if anthropomorphizing pets or believing in anthropomorphized supernatural agents is what is responsible for alleviating feelings of loneliness. If it is, it could provide alternate means for people to feel socially connected when connecting to humans isn't an option.

"There are health benefits that come from being connected to other people, and those same benefits seem to come from connection with pets and with religious agents, too," Epley said.

Cliff notes?

Cliff notes?

Of course I'll try for you. I think Lonelyness ties all the religions together better than my original insertion of fear.
-Instead of the cold hard fact of death and that is it, isn't it better to think that there is something out there for us at the end of our lives?
-If ya ugly or socially inept, feeling of outcast because you are gimp, wouldn't you fair better imagining a being next to you by talking or praying?

Of course I'll try for you. I think Lonelyness ties all the religions together better than my original insertion of fear.
-Instead of the cold hard fact of death and that is it, isn't it better to think that there is something out there for us at the end of our lives?
-If ya ugly or socially inept, feeling of outcast because you are gimp, wouldn't you fair better imagining a being next to you by talking or praying?

Interesting. I always figured that religious people were family people. Are you saying that the average of non-family (lonely) people being religious is higher than family people being religious? Because I still think that the latter would be rather high.

Are you saying that the average of non-family (lonely) people being religious is higher than family people being religious? Because I still think that the latter would be rather high.

Right but this is how they may answer that question...
Humans have evolved as social creatures, so loneliness cuts to the quick. Living in groups was critical to the survival and safety of our ancient ancestors, and "complete isolation or ostracism has been tantamount to a death sentence," said University of Chicago researcher Nicholas Epley, who led the study.


While group living isn't critical to survival in the modern world, feeling socially connected is. Feeling isolated and lonely is a very painful emotional state for people, Epley said, and can lead to ill health, both physically and mentally.


"Being socially isolated is just not good for you," he said.


When people feel lonely, they may try to rekindle old friendships, seek out new ones or, as Epley's study suggests, they may create social connections by anthropomorphizing nearby gadgets, such as computers or cars, pets, or by believing in supernatural events or religious figures.
Or maybe all of the above!