An excerpt from
http://www.answersincreation.org/salvation.htm

"
Yes, you can believe in an old earth, and become a Christian. Yes, the Word of God is inerrant, and its account of the creation story in Genesis is perfectly in line with the scientific record. God created the world, and the doctrine of salvation has nothing to do with the age of the earth. The Bible does not say, “Believe in a young earth, or be condemned to hell.”?

You may ask how you can believe in an inerrant Word and believe that the world is over 4 billion years old. You may have read all the arguments about the word “day” meaning a literal twenty-four hour period.

The Bible says a day to the Lord is as a thousand years to man (II Peter 3:8). Remember, Adam was created on the sixth day, and these “days” were as God sees days, because only God was here…not man. Can the word “day” be interpreted as anything other than a twenty-four hour period…I would argue yes, but in reality, it doesn’t matter how I interpret the word day…the question is, ‘what is a day to God’? You are already convinced that the earth is old, so you must come to the conclusion that a day for God is a long period of time. God is God of the universe, not just God of the earth. Day as a twenty-four hour period only applies if you are standing on planet earth. What is the meaning of day if you are in the middle of space? There is no day or night there, so why should we limit God to a limited twenty-four hour earth day?

"


I will contend that hardlined interpretation of Genesis, can be shown to be radicalism at times, as shown by the behaviors of some on this board.....an unchristian like behavior.

Remember that Genesis is one of the books of Moses, but is also a collection of stories written by Moses and guided by God. God guided Moses at that time with words that he would understand. If this were to occur today, then I am positive that different words and terminology would be used to create Genesis.

the fact that the northern crust is still rebounding from an ice age 10,000 years ago, it's movement verified by GRACE , seems to escape YECs - just like they discount any non-European history that goes back linearly past the magic 6,000 year old figure, etc. Marky himself has made the racist allegation that Chinese history is "heresay" and wll probably claim the GRACE satellites don't really exist or pretend they use carbon dating, not gravity differential, then treat us to some straw-man tripe about how carbon dating ain't accurate...

not sure how any of that validates the age of the earth...it's doesn't

the "10,000" number is based on assumptions associated with ice-cores, which in turn are based on a uniformitarian model..if the model is wrong, the numbers are useless

No, dumbass, I just pointed out how it's a measurement of geologic MOVEMENT of the crust rebounding, as measured by the GRACE satellites. Way to prove my assertion that you'd attempt to redefine the measurement, then argue against your definition rather than what was posted, though.

no, I stated that times frames associated with Chinese history, like Egyptian history, are often artificially inflated

You said it was heresay. Want me to link to it and embarass you?



again, you keep parroting stuff I never said!

I NEVER said C-14 was inaccurate,

:rofl:

Need I link to the dozens of occasions in which you complain that carbon dating isn't accurate, is foolish, used by science to 'maipulate', etc? You're digging deeeep holes this time. Better not stand in them.

true, but God also says He "esteems the one who trembles at My word"

who are you, or anyone else, to set limits on the eternal God?


My point exactly, you are setting God to a 24 hour period. Who are you to do that!



Exodus 20 (stating of the 10 Commandments) makes it very clear the seven day week was designed for man, not the other way around.


And yet you want to want to bound God by the construct of time that you yourself have now admitted was made for man. So if man did not exist, when was time created? Was it created at the time that God created man then?
If so, then time did not exist before the creation of man, and still the creation before man was outside of time....



http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i1/days.asp

not this nonsense again



agreed, YEC nonsense


It's a foolish to believe Moses was "too stupid" to understand what God desired to convey


I never stated that. I stated that God gave Moses the words in a terminology that Moses could understand.
Do you think that if God instructed Moses to write 'Carbon-14' it would help Moses in any way?? You entirely missed the point.

so what?

So you went off saying it's based on ice cores, right after being told it was based on GRACE satellite measurements. In other words, that you're a meathead who can only debate if you first rewrite everything that goes against your belief, then argue against your revised version.

Okaaay - now you're overlooking that GRACE measurements record gravitational differentials caused by the crust rebounding from compression caused by the weight of the ice moving over it. Such vertical motion and rates of rebound are well understood and measurable, not postulations of "what is must be what was" as you assert.

you love to argue about some esoteric finding you read in 'Science' or wherever as if you have some higher wisdom, manntis, but, like everyone else, you only know what you've read or been told

master of space and time, lol

nauseating

yeah sure, Mr. "Molten core of the Earth" :rolleyes:

post the complete article

Who says it's based on a single article? Some of the tracking systems were designed by an associate of mine here at the U of S. But I'm sure there are a number of articles on GRACE if you'd like to read up on it.

uniformitarian

if you do NOT assume ANY ammount of time, and observe a process that is steady with consistant observable effects, then a reasonable FIRST APPROXIMATION may be made using an assumption that the process has worked the same way in the past as it does now.

THAT would be scientific uniformitarianism, a starting point.

YOUR religious uniformitarianism however adds "with no possibility whatsoever of there being any event that might be different than the current conditions", like ice ages for example.

if weathering erosion takes place at this observed rate, and produces these patterns of debris, and there is a pile of debris that would take a million years to accumulate at the current rate which came first, the pile of debris or the millions of years ?

a first approximation is expected to be to have an error range of orders of magnitude, to add 9's behind the decimal point you first have to find out where the decimal point goes.

for example, speed of light. look at the evolution of that number.

standing on hilltops a couple miles apart and flashing lanterns at each other established C as way faster than human reflexes, and stuffed some zeros between 1 and that decimal point.
how many ? "dunno, at LEAST this many".


nice quote, accepting 'uniformatarianism' as an created heretical religion.

yah, but we HAVE narrowed it down some.

as it is, if god strikes a mans arm off, it is entirely possible that we could reattach it and restore his hand as good as new, even better, the PT would build it up better than it was, more than likely.

we are still working at figuring out what QUESTIONS to ask.


questions NOT like "how can we explain the total absence of a single fossilized city ?"

I would like to see the fossil remains of some of those "children of god" , the fallen angels cast down here to smooch the wimmenfolk.

[E] I was thinking to post "smooch the white wimmen" but I feared Blazing Saddles might no leap to mind fast enough.

all scripture is God breathed! it did not originate in the minds of men!

Who did you plagarize "God breathed" from? You use it all over, and act like just the power of those words should make us all cower and tremble.

Oh, and on a side note, I completely disagree with you, as usual.

Some scripture directly conflicts with other scripture - such as a commandment against killing, yet celebrating the decimation of entire kingdoms because some Isrealite wanted to marry a girl from the competing kingdom and her family protested when he tried to rape her.

So are such conflicts explained by God Breathed v. God Farted?

only honegod....

what ?

would come up with the notion of genuine nonhuman fossils from heavenly rapists ?

or soften the mass rapes described as mere smooching ?

giant men WITH HORNS AND BAT WINGS would certainly get my attention.

post the passage in question

huge difference between murder (an act of personal vendetta) and Divine wrath on the ungodly

uh... you don't know your Genesis?

no, you disagree with God, because God speaks through the prophets and apostles


So you are now a prophet or apostle? Because I disagree with you and your interpretations.

lol

no, just giant men....like 20 feet tall....the "men of reknown"

If they were 20 feet tall, wouldn't they be the "men of rebound"??? I mean, shit, they'd be unstoppable at basketball.

historically speaking, giants wouldn't have had to have been 20 feet tall to be 'remarkable'. When the average person was 5'5" and ignorant to anything outside of their personal experience, someone standing 6'6" would shock the hell out of them.

nah, you just disagree with everything in the scripture

sure, why not?

let's completely overlook the fact that even those who agree with the scripture disagree with much of what yzf says and does....

nonono, I want 20' nonhuman bipeds strolling around on earth as they did in heaven, BREEDING WITH OUR WOMEN.

do these bipeds have magical powers ?

is T Rex an "man" of renown ?

that would explain why we DO find all those great big fossil bones for rhings that are no longer alive, god did NOT, after all, let any of those 20' fallen angels on the ark.
so they WOULD have been subject to 'rapid fossilisation' in the 'rapidly ossified' sediment.

the only "problem" with that is that NO human fossils are found mixed up with the angel fossils. with the close intermingling spoken of in the bible there SHOULD have been some .

the absence of human + angel fossils does not kill the theory, since the odds could go either way, but a fossil of a hot babe caught, and fossilised, in flagrante delectible with a 20' tall raptor WOULD give all those evil 'Evolutionists' serious pause.

it is the all demon fossils that interest me.

the average height of men of ancient times is subject to debate/uncertainty, but the O.T. records indicate Goliath was over 9' tall

No uncertainlty about it. Door frames, bed lengths, ceiling heights, and found skeletons from various eras show that humans used to be shorter in stature, but with advances in diet variety and vitamin intake that's changed.

Up 'till the industrial revolution, pretty much. Ever toured an old fort, visited ancient ruins, etc? or even seen the proportions of antique beds?

ANCIENT RUINS.

Do you even read posts before responding?

it is the all demon fossils that interest me.

lol!!!!!

well really, the existance of large numbers of nonhuman things that can breed with humans is postulated as fact, I wanna see some bones.

mental illnesses like schizophrenia welcomed the idea of angels visiting people...not god. Therefore if god has help (and we know he doesn't hehe) then Satan has help too. It is only fair :P

how can spirits leave physical remains?

how can a spirit have a physically present functioning penis to breed with humans? But you didnt think that far ahead into your most recent steaming pile, did ya?

If a spirit can suddenly possess a physical, functioning penis, why wouldnt bones be possible as well? Or are you just jealous because all these years, you wished for a physically present, functioning penis of your very own??:eek:

satan and his angels were allowed to possess human souls, apparently at will, before the Flood

since that time, a spiritual "door" must be opened to invite them in

note the lyrics to Metallica's "Until It Sleeps"....very interesting

Obviously you forgot the demon that Jesus cast out...thats ok you would rather live in a made up fantasy world where you have to be a sheepwatcher.

Face it, if we believe your flap, by listing to Metallica for your spiritual guidance, you've opened a door to yourself then...

YZF has just professed that he is demon-filled! And all of hell rejoices with his decisions!

Obviously you forgot the demon that Jesus cast out...thats ok you would rather live in a made up fantasy world where you have to be a sheepwatcher.

Maybe they were intentionally let in...?

how can spirits leave physical remains?

unless they were VIRGIN BIRTHS brought about by the same technique as used by the Holy Spirit in overshadowing the Virgin Mary, the fathers of the Men of Remown needed a body to get the wimmenfolk pregnant in the ONLY OTHER WAY POSSIBLE.

yes ?

I am not sure how your CORRECTED VERSION of the ALMOST inerrent Bible words it but the KJ Version says they got MARRIED, which requires CONSUMATION, which requires some getting physical to make babies, yes ?

the Holy Spirit did NOT marry The Virgin Mary, did It ?


note , having sex with Demons did not Defile the Wedding Bed ?


or is this just more strange babbling from a mind that absolutely hates God

what are you babbling about now, heretic?

Jesus cast out literally thousands of demons...they left because a greater Power forced them out, otherwise they would have continued to possess the soul of their victim

Heretic...broken record, if anyone is is a heretic its you marky...when you can't make a point to continually try to discredit the person personally. Well in that case Schizo, lets school you about it.

Can you prove that hetfield was possesed?? NO. Pretty convenient way not to take responsibility for you own actions...Think that will hold up in court there marky?

"Your honor, I was possessed by demons!"....

A person can create their own demons with out any supernatural possessions, but you so want there to be satan involved don't you?

Does this explain your actions here schizo mark?

, they are free

demons are free.

demons are empowered to freely attack HELPLESS humanity, defenseless people who CANNOT call on the only power that could save them from spiritual rape, because they were not chosen for the gift of salvation.

demons who ARE GIVEN magic powers that no human can resist in any way.

sorry, what did jesus die for again ?

no....demons cannot invade a human soul at will

and no spirit-filled Christian can be demonized

So we now have proof that you are not spirit filled, schizo marky....with your actions you must be possessed.

( Insert batman 'filled' joke here)

no....demons cannot invade a human soul at will




ok, what are the criteria ?

But when someone stronger attacks and overpowers him, he takes away the armor in which the man trusted and divides up the spoils.

" once they are invited in, they are free to invade at will"

invited in ?


no spirit-filled Christian can be demonized

naturally I was referring to the rest of us, the majority of humanity who jesus turns his back on, leaving us as helpless prey for the armies of supernaturally powerful evil demons god armed and set to attack us.

demons possessed men and fathered the children,

that sounds made up.

1 the passage says nothing about posession

2 the genetics wouldn't be abnormal in a posessed man so his kids would be normal, they weren't.

Any of these half breeds are taller than schizo mark.
Heck everyone is taller than schizo mark.

BTW when are you going to post a picture to prove us all wrong there marky.

yes...invited in

huh, and you posted this as the actual words chosen by jesus himself {almost} to specifically address the posession of a soul by a demon -But when someone stronger attacks and overpowers him, he takes away the armor in which the man trusted and divides up the spoils.

apparantly this is a case where the spiritual blinders are in full effect because I see the exact OPPOSIT of an invited guest here.

that would explain LOTS about the religious, if y'all see "attacks and overpowers" as REALLY meaning "invited in".

:bowdown: :screwyou:

and I disagree with point #2

the offspring of these half demon men were clearly NOT normal, they were likely men of near supernatural ability

so instead of posession being merely the demon taking over the MIND of the victim there are actual changes to the GENETIC STRUCTURE of the victim ?

physical changes to the DNA that actually propagate all the way to the SPERM of the victim ?

inheritable changes ?

does this kind of thing still happen today, when we can actually READ the DNA and IDENTIFY such changes ?

naaw.

although it would make a nice storyline for a comic book, something like Blade.

as soon as you post yours
Chicken shit ..... :blah:

apparently so

apparently

thank god we have the inerrent word of god to tell us the Truth of everything.

:bowdown: ...