for those who claimed that salvation was never made available to all.....explain...

um, no.....

Try looking a little further, bx, like in Ephesians 3, for example....

Think about this for a minute--God's grace was already present and given to Saul BEFORE he pronounced his faith. He didnt believe UNTIL he got his sight back....but even before that moment, God's GRACE was already in effect, which is how Ananias was even commanded to go to him in the house of Judas on straight street.

The same book youre quoting refers to the GRACE as the gift from God. Dont doubt it because I am the one who posted it--consider where I got it from.

__________________
"some people are like slinky,
their not realy good for much.
but you cant help but smile
when you see one tumbling down the stairs"

I'm finished with you on this. YZF is right, there's is no point. Grace is a gift, faith is a gift. Verse 8's gift is faith. Verse 9's gift is grace. The context of verse 8 is doctrinally focused on how salvation works. Verse 9 includes the words grace and gift and the focus is on something completely different. Move along.

That is incorrect, bx....read it again....

Paul very clearly says that he became a servant of the Gospel--which is what it means to be saved--BY THE GIFT OF GOD'S GRACE. That gift, in that verse, is DIRECTLY being given as the reason why he was saved. ISNT THAT HOW SALVATION WORKS, in other words? Paul just told you that its how HIS salvation came about. Simply claiming that its about something else isnt going to cut it, bx.....I expected better from you, honestly. Youre one of the more intelligent people here, I didnt expect some lame false generalization like that.

__________________
"some people are like slinky,
their not realy good for much.
but you cant help but smile
when you see one tumbling down the stairs"

Well since you're being nice and all that, I am obliged to continue. I see what you are saying and I appreciate you looking forward, however, I would submit that in 3:7 Paul's talking about grace not in regards to the salvific process but in the light of how he got the job of revealing the mystery in the gospel, that the gentiles would be fellow heirs. It would be analagous to saying you drove to New York. You didn't actually drive the wheels yourself, you worked the gas pedal. Maybe you rode in the back seat.

yes, but youre forgetting the entire premise behind why Saul was saved in the first place. In this particular case at least, "how he got the job" WAS how he became saved. The same is true of all of us--was not the great commission commanded of ALL the faithful?

Anyways, back to Paul--

Acts 9

Arent we ALL called to do the same? Arent we ALL commanded to bring the Gospel to the lost in the same manner? This is no different.

Paul was talking about how he was granted salvation--the salvation and the calling to serve are not separable, but one and the same. Who will be chosen, according to the Word itself, but not have to live for Christ? Who among the faithful did Jesus exempt from the Great Commission? you see where I am going with this?


But even in your analogy, you still have to make the choice to get in the car, no? Even if youre only sitting in the back seat, you had to choose to get in that car and end up wherever it did. God is no different--we have to choose to trust Him over our own thought process. That in no way lessens His grace that we might be saved from eternal pain, but it is necessary. Once again, do you agree with these two statements?

1--the entire Bible is the true word of God, being that "all scripture is God-breathed".

2--God is not wrong, does not lie, does not err, does not tell us things that arent true.

Do you agree with those?

__________________
"some people are like slinky,
their not realy good for much.
but you cant help but smile
when you see one tumbling down the stairs"

that was the nicest post like 'ever' from sky

2 + 2 = cat

__________________

demons? you define the word delusional

these words in itself has value. Therefore, if life deems us only worthy to be called an ignorant spec in yadda yadda yadda blah blah?, then it shall be.

Sorry, I stepped out for a moment. Yes I agree with these points.

3 --- simplistic minds make wrong conclusions about the scripture, and cherry pick verses in an attempt to prove an erroneous standpoint.

The doctrine of Elction is a simple, yet, at the same time, complex issue.

It really helps to read a few Systematics on the topic. It honors God to read books about theology and it is consistent with scripture to do so.

I agree, but there really is no substitute for studying the Word for yourself first, so that you can discern whether the words written by men (even if they may be Godly men) are indeed accurate and true.

I enjoyed Piper's "Are There Two Wills in God?" so much because it reinforced what I had already been thinking: that there is a complex series of priorities to the Will of God, culminating with His ultimate glory. I got more out of his excellent treatise because I came to it with a thorough knowledge of the passages he presented.

Jonnie does the exact opposite: his knowledge of the scripture is abysmal. So he cherry picks what lines up with his pre-conceived ideas, not with what the whole counsel of God says, then brow beats anyone who disagrees in an endless do-loop of insanity.

OK....so let's start with that...

1--you agree that the Bible is 100% the true word of God.

2--you agree that God doesnt lie.






3--the Bible states that salvation is offered to "all mankind". The Bible states that God "foreknew those whom He predestined", not that He made all the choices for us, but that He FOREKNEW what WE would choose. The Bible shows Paul telling fellow Christians to "make their election sure"--something that could not possibly have any meaning if free will was not involved.


If 1 and 2 are truth, then by default the statements in 3 must also be truth. There's no getting around that......at least, no honest way of getting around it.

__________________
"some people are like slinky,
their not realy good for much.
but you cant help but smile
when you see one tumbling down the stairs"

bx, don't waste your time with this guy!

of course, the "honesty" claptrap....jon you are a MORON