When will we realize that Islam is not a peaceful religion?

No Nation nor religion fully contains peaceful people. The smallest group can gain global attention if it bangs loud enough. Dont be afraid my friends. I'm always in front clearing the way.

Let them be loud. I speak softly and carry a big stick. Two of them. Chambered in .223 and 7.62x39.

Just because something is biased doesn't mean it's not true. Only that it is passably suspect and in need of more research.

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The blog: Tofuball's Worklog

Read The Bible - it's the Word of God.

Next time, try it without the personal attack BS.



yoru analogy wasnt "a little off". It was WAY off. You compared the reward of money from a bank to eternal paradise. you compared being forced to do something you know is wrong to doing something of your own free will that you have specifically been taught is right. Your analogy, in a nutshell, sucked. Badly. It didnt have to be "bang-on"...but it could have at least been in the same ballpark.

OK, why not? Lets run further with the ball you just threw in here. People rationalize it if they are forced to do it, right? They dont hold themselves accountable because they were forced, right? Well, as I said, your analogy completely sucked here. No one forces an extremist muslim to kill "infidels". No one forces that muslim to die in the course of doing so. It is a choice that they make themselves. There is a massive difference between being forced to do what you know is wrong, and volunteering to do what you profoundly believe is right.

Like I said, your analogy sucked. Any questions?


There is no problem, and there was no wiggling. The point made earlier in this thread that you apparently bypassed completely was that someone claimed that Islam as a whole is basically the same as the extremist BS we see today about "kill all the infidels". To those people, the fear IS gone--they volunteer to do what they are taught, often from a very young age, is not only right, but commanded by their god. They are taught that doing this will please their god to the point that they will be rewarded like no other person on this planet will be. Thats the truth of it. When I said that it would take the fear out, consider for a moment the hard-line extremists that have already chosen this path. Were they afraid of dying? Perhaps some of them were. But were they afraid enough to change their mind? Didnt think so.

No wiggling there, chief---my point makes perfect sense, especially in the face of everything that people here have tried to say. you cannot lump all of Islam together, like some here have tried to do. Thats the fact.

Thanks for your honesty.....if I find myself in a position where I did something wrong, then I would be happy to do the same. In the meantime, you should look at what I have actually said in here instead of making such a big deal out of nothing. My point all along was that Islam is not one group with all the same beliefs or actions, not even close. Everything I have said points to that end result. I am sorry if you think youre getting somewhere with this "fear fear fear" bit...because fear was never the topic of this thread--claims about Islam all being the same were. A helpful clue to this could be found in the thread's title:

Now, please, show me where the word "fear" even appears in there.

perhaps you arent, but the fact remains that you walked directly into the middle of a thread where that was the exact debate that was taking place. That isnt my fault or doing, please stop acting like it is.


again, whats with the personal crap? I am simply taking part in a discussion and leaving all that nonsense out---whats your excuse for not doing the same? This isnt about ego--it is about the simple fact that there is not just one version of Islam. It is about the fact that the many different versions that all get wrapped up into one group are sometimes as different as night and day. THAT was the topic of this thread. Ego?? Who needs ego to dispel such a claim as saying that all of Islam is exactly the same? Are all catholics the same? Nope. how about all democrats? hmmm, no...maybe all New York Mets fans are the same?? hmmm, uh uh. Is any of this getting through??

Also, when talking about these extremists, you keep harping on the fear factor. you also said that while not all of them may choose martyrdom, those who wont will still revere those who will. Well, I posted a link that talked all about muslims cooperating willingly and freely with "infidels" where they could simply keep their mouths shut. doesnt sound like they are thinking too much about their martyrs there, does it?

In either case, if you cannot debate this with maturity, then you can debate it by yourself. constantly harping about ego and making accusations dont belong here, you should know better than that by now with the fine example that marky has set here.


No, the subject is NOT fear. The subject is "Islam is not a peaceful religion". Again, read the title. Feel free to make your own thread all you like about fear.

I NEVER said that all muslims would not fear death. I NEVER made such a claim. What I said was If all muslims were extremists, why wouldnt the 28 million muslims in Iraq be making human wave attacks? Why wouldnt they be doing more against the "infidels"?"

THAT is what I said. When youre done fabricating things that I supposedly posted, let me know. Hell, I even clarified that for you in the next post, when you pretended that I said that all muslims would handle fear the exact same way--somethign else that I didnt ever say or imply.

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"some people are like slinky,
their not realy good for much.
but you cant help but smile
when you see one tumbling down the stairs"

Yes, and as stated already, when you take things out of context, you dont get the proper meaning. For example, the part about "kill the infidels wherever you find them"--here is what the Quran really says there:

This is so very clearly about war. This talks about how to handle those who attack muslims. "slay them wherever you find them"....right? Look at all the things that passage says about when to NOT attack unbelievers. There are plenty of others like this too.


I dont doubt that. Like I said before, I am not muslim and I dont personally believe it is the "correct" belief. But there is so much more to it than just "kill them all". Reading the actual passages instead of someone else's snippets would help sort that out.

By the way, the same can be said about other books, including the Bible. There is a lot of war in the Bible--go read the old testament sometime, about the things that happened to the enemies of the Jews....entire countries were decimated in wars, with no mercy shown--in this, the Quran even instructs mercy where the Bible didnt!

What exactly is your point? You picked and chose the words from the Quran that you took to heart, not me. I didnt cherrypick it at all. I look at the book as a whole, which is all I suggested about the Quran as well. Taking individual sentences out of context will get you no more understanding than not opening the book at all.

You can look online and see pictures AND videos of protesting Muslims who would love to watch you and I perish anytime, anyday. Just because the whole country chooses not to rise against us doesnt mean that the majority of people arent praising the suicide bombers, grooming the children they have to hate the Infidels. You know in Palestine suicide bombers are put on magazine covers, they are the equivalent of sports stars in the US. I hate to say I have a closed mind to this discussion but its the truth. We are at war, will you be prepared?[/quote]

yes, I know, I have been over there before. And I have already been to war. I was prepared just fine. And again, I dont want this point misunderstood--I completely agree that many of these extremist muslims are way out there with the acts they commit. But that is NOT ALL OF ISLAM. You can point to any videos on youtube or elsewhere that you like---you still will not find one that proves your claim that all of Islam is the same. It isnt islam we need to be concerned with--its RADICAL islam. There is a difference. Many muslims over there just want to be left to tend to their families and live their lives. It then becomes a problem of picking out which ones are the "bad guys" and which ones arent.

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"some people are like slinky,
their not realy good for much.
but you cant help but smile
when you see one tumbling down the stairs"

Please define personal attack for me. Most members are not as thin skinned as you and would not consider anything that I've written to be a personal attack. If there is a line, please show me where it is so I can avoid crossing it.

It covered the theme of one overcoming their fear (despite the fact that they would still be burdened by it) because of outside motivators (whether that motivator be fear of punishment or desire for reward). The entire point of the analogy was to show that fear would still be present despite compliance with the act (of robbing a bank). The fact that you believe that robbing the bank is wrong means absolutely nothing, Think about this for a minute before you respond. You believe that robbing a bank is wrong, but you aren't just afraid of robbing it because you are afraid to do something "wrong". You are afraid because you could get shot, arrested, beaten, ect. The fear of such things has nothing to do with your own personal morality. Suppose that you held no moral objection to robbing a bank, the fear of getting shot, arrested, beaten, etc. would still be present, and that was the point the entire time. I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time with this, and really, I should not have expected otherwise, but come on, these are baby steps here. Any smaller and I'm going to have to teach you how to crawl.

As I have said, this has no relevance what-so-ever. You said that if they believed that killing infidels was right, which is what the OP had stated, then they would not be stopped by fear because belief in the fact that doing so would be right would "take out the fear". I'm not fabricating anything, or trying to shift your words around, you said exactly that. Don't remember? Here, let me help you:

Nope. Doesn't suck at all. The more that I think about it, the more I realize that it's actually pretty damn good.

So now the fear is back to being gone again? A post ago it was lessened just enough to be able to do something. Tell you what though, let's assume that those who you and I would consider "hard-line extremists" have no fear of dying when they kill themselves in the process of doing god's work. Now, let's go back to the other 25 million people who don't kill themselves for Allah. Supposing that they too believe as hard-line extemists do, why don't they die for Allah? Is it possible that they are afraid of death? Is it possible that they are afraid of abandoning their families? Is it possible that they are afraid of implicating their children? Not according to you, because somehow, if they believed that dying for Allah was the right thing, fear would magically become a non factor for them. This is the point that I was debating the entire time. I'm not sure why you took to pointing out that extremists who have died were able to overcome their fear (no shit) but I suspect that it has something to do with destracting from an argument that you are losing.

I'm not trying to lump all of Islam together. In fact, I don't believe that I have ever said that all muslims think alike, or that they've all adopted that "kill the infidels whereever you find them" stance. What I have been saying however, is that if they have all adopted this stance, the fact that they are not all acting in kind has nothing to do with your lousy argument (that argument being that if they were as stated above, they would have no fear to carry out god's work).

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Let's see how long this lasts.

Threads morph and change as they go on. You brought up the topic of fear and I pointed out your misapplication of it. If you're not sure as to how we got here, a helpful clue to this could (and presently still can) be found in your opening post in this thread.

Read above. By your logic though, you should only be allowed to use words that are found in the original post. Yeah, that makes sense

I'm not saying that my position on this matter is your fault, what I am saying is that it is pretty fucking stupid for you to ramble on and on (when responding to me) about an issue that neither of us is debating. If you are so intent on continuing to do so then be my guest, I'm just not sure what the point is.

I actually took "ego" straight from your repertoire. I do not view it as a personal attack though. When someone has an inability to admit that they are wrong, then you have to wonder why that is, especially when their mistake has been repeatedly pointed out to them again and again. I think I took a pretty accurate stab at this and called it "ego".

Actually, I said that Jewish and Christian martyrs were revered by other Jews and Christians. Then, I said to look at how comrades of extremists who don't kill themselves look at those extremists who do. I did not suppose or assume their beliefs one way or the other, I just suggested that that was the better place to look.

If you don't want to debate with me, then don't. I won't lose any rest over it. I do however, believe in calling a spade a spade and your inability to own up to your mistakes on this board screams ego to me. Hey, I have it myself, I've spent the last 45 minutes responding to this because of it. And come on, like you haven't called people liars, or "bad examples" here yourself*

*please don't ramble on and on about how that is completely different and how I "couldn't be more wrong". It's the same thing, whether you like to admit it or not.

Between you and I, the subject is fear. Look, I said right off the bat that I am not arguing what Islams believe. I said in my very first post in this thread that I wasn't getting involved in the issue. You chose to reply to me and the issue that I took with your argument, which acknowledges this fact.

lol, why don't you go one more sentence forward with what you said there? The very next thing you said is that the reason that they don't do it is not because of fear. Given how weak your position is, why are you even arguing. Oh wait, I bet I know why...

I have not fabricated anything and I did not pretend that you said all muslims would handle fear the same way. I misunderstood what you said, re-read your point and then conceded my mistake (isn't your pointing out the above a fabrication in and of itself?).

I suggest that you take your time responding to this (you might even want to try thinking about it before hitting the reply button).

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Let's see how long this lasts.

im a leader